Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[spa 968]

Hey Jason. This new project looks promising... in my experience though there is no such thing as a quick bat! They tend to take on life of their own. This is minor but the one suggestion I ahd would be to include a door at the base of each leg of the bridge. I'm thinking it would be an elevator inside. In this day and age there are still barriers for the disabled but government agencies, such as a city's transportation authority, are very good at addressing them. Yet this is something I have not seen considered in many of our existing stations. They often have stairs down the platforms with no alternative means of getting there for those who aren't as mobile to spring up and down steps. Just something to think about.

Edit: Just flipping back through the discussion and noticed that this is also going to be government offices? I think my point carries even more weight then!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Ardecila:  Maybe some new pieces could be made?  Could the other pieces somehow be copied, and then shortened?  A transition piece could be made.  I don't know how big of a project that would be though, it sounds like a big undertaking.

SimFox:  I think you're right, I'll experiment more with the platforms.

Ill Tonkso:  lol, that would work, wouldn't it.  There would no longer be the need for the overhang prop.  But then I would still want it to be elevated, since that direction is short blocks, and it would cross at least one road (I could BAT in the underpass and make it transit enabled).  It might end up working out better this way.  I'll experiment with some layouts.

Andreas Roth:  Thanks, I'm glad you like it.    I suppose it could also have other purposes in it.  I'll have to think about that one.

Swiss Canadian:  Yes I agree, Detroit is very Art Deco.

[Odainsaker 2,134]

I was wondering how did APTX make the red-brick arched rail viaduct for his Victorian Tokyo Station, or was that just exclusively Elevated Rail? Would this station work as an elevated rail station?

However, elevating the tracks kinda undercuts the idea of the raised crossing bridge and tower, for crossings can be done in passageways underneath the raised tracks (which is what Tokyo Station does), and I do like the shapes of the tower and bridge against the main station body.

Perhaps continue as is, allowing for stand-alone non-wall-to-wall uses, and those of us making urban rail realism can slope the grade of the surrounding back terrain tiles down away from the station such that the rails are at grade on the station site itself but quickly transition to elevated rail viaducts off beyond the lot. Streets crossing the tracks near the station would just follow the sharp terrain slope down under the tracks. Yeah, we would have to carefully terraform the surrounding topography to fit the wall-to-wall urban ideals of the station, which would be awful if we already had a beloved developed area we are fitting this into, but just think of it euphemized instead as "integrated total urban design" hehehe.  Probably only the most manic obsessive of us play SimCity that way, but it has its virtues.

[ardecila 124]

Originally posted by: Andreas RothRegarding the elevated rail tracks: Sure, 16 m is somewhat unrealistic, but it's the default height of all NAM overpasses and the elevated highway as well. 8 m might be more realistic, even with the game perspective that makes everything short, but I'd say it's not feasible to change everything yet again. Also, I appreciate ArkenbergeJoe's work very much - maybe it doesn't look exactly like the rail viaduct Tonksi posted above, but hey, he did take the challenge and actually started working, rather than suggesting thousands of things, but not getting into gear.quote>

Andreas Roth: I'd like to discuss this further, but I think we need to move the discussion out of Jason's thread.  It is only a tangent here.  I have posted my reply in the NAM Discussion Thread (the one here at ST).

[Jasoncw 11,840]

spa:  You posted while I was writing!  (I don't always write my posts in one sitting).  I'll keep in mind ramps and those sorts of things.  I do think that those types of things add a special sense of believability. 

There might be other government offices, I'm not sure yet.  There will be at least ground floor retail and the rail company's local offices there.

Odainsaker:  This station would "work" as an elevated rail station.  The raised rail (NAM puzzle pieces) and elevated rail are both the same height though, which is almost to the top of the building itself.  El rail isn't something I'm interested in making it for, since I almost never use it in the game.

If the rails were raised by a lower amount, the tower and people bridges would still be possible.  They could be tunnels underground, but even if they were flat rails, there could still be tunnels underground. 

It would be possible to have the rails flat, and then have the rails transition to a different grade after they leave the station, but the amount of space needed for that would be quite long, and would require that city block to be very long.  It's also possible to keep the tracks level until the next road crossing and then raise them during the next block, but then you need a road underpass, where you only have two or three tiles to get the road down 15 meters.  I did an experiment with this actually a few days ago, and it wasn't hard to get it set up right, but there just isn't enough space in normal conditions to get everything where it needs to be realistically.

I think no matter what I do players will find ways to put the station somewhere and make it work decently, but some configurations are just not possible to make with such limited space.

Anyway, I haven't worked on this at all over the weekend like I thought I was.  It turned out that I was really very busy.  I'll probably get something done tomorrow though.

[patriots_1228 51]

yep anything is possible with the reader, too bad i dont understand it

anyway, the longer train station looks nice, will you put a park on the roof like you did with the Sojot building? that was awesome.

[Hanson784 165]

Looks like a good start so far.

I'm thinking each platform could have individual coverings so passengers can be covered when they get off and on the trains. A reference that may help you get more ideas is the 30th Street Station in Philadelphia.

Also maybe a central entrance with some columns will give it more of a train station feeling. Anyway, very nice work. I'm looking forward to more.

[ardecila 124]

Okay... here's the viaduct I'm working on, with a track height of 14'.  I'll eventually scale it up, so it'll probably turn into 17 or 19 feet.

It might be a few weeks until I can finish these pieces, and even then you'll have to wait until the next NAM comes out, so I don't know if it's worth your while to try to integrate our station onto these.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Patriots_1228:  Thanks.  No, I won't be putting a patio on the roof of this one.  You can expect to see more things like that in the future though.

Hanson784:  I thought about that, but then how do they see the clock tower?  I don't really know how to solve that problem (I don't know a lot about train stations).

Ardecila:  That looks really good!  I think it only needs to be tall enough to let trucks underneath (I don't know how tall that is in the game), I think it should generally be as short as possible.  If you need any help at all with anything to do with the viaducts, just ask.  I can help with texturing, or whatever.  Also, I'm guessing this will mean that the stations will need to have custom paths?  Can you help me with that when it comes time?

Go into the render dialog, and go under Indirect Illumination, and then go under Final Gather, and increase the number of bounces.  This should get the light to bounce a bit more, and get under the bridge to make it a bit brighter under there.

I think I'll make the station for flat ground like I was originally planning, and then later on I'll make a new version.

[ardecila 124]

Okay. I can do texturing myself.. that's just a "clay" rendering, with the rail tracks shown to avoid confusion.

The tricky part will be converting this to a lower-poly model to make it into a puzzle piece. However, I will place some little bush and tree props on the grassy areas.

Anyway, the advantage of such a lower puzzle piece is that the existing elevated rail and rail viaducts can cross over it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

How do the pieces work?  Is there a model for each zoom and rotation like other things?  If that's the case then you can try making a fake LOD thing.

Otherwise I don't think it will be very hard to make low poly versions.  The non-bridge pieces are a lot simpler than the normal raised rail, so I think it's safe to budget more polys towards the overpass pieces than you'd normally think.

[ardecila 124]

No - if you want the terrain-conforming to work, then you just have one model (using Resource Key Type 0). Or, if you'd like the textures to anti-alias a little better, you can use Resource Key Type 3, which is one model for each zoom level.

That's a good point about budgeting the polys. Computers today are on average more powerful than they were when SC4 was released, too, so most players can handle a higher polygon count.

[ILL Tonkso 1,236]

Thats true, but can you get the pathing done? thats surely the biggest hurdle?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Some news on VanWingerden Plaza!!

I've gotten it to successfully render!  There are some things I want to change, so I'm doing it again, but now that that problem is taken care of, it can be on the STEX in a few weeks.

I think the problem with the nitelites showing up during the day was because the nitelites were instanced.  I had read about instancing nitelites being a problem, but didn't have any problems in the past.

[ardecila 124]

That's great! I love that building.

(sorry to hijack Jason's thread) - Tonks, pathing won't be hard at all now that I have the DrawPaths cheat that lets me see the paths in-game.

[Gridlock 9]

Ive never lurked the Bat forums before was always just grateful for whatever hit the stex,im truly speakless , this stuff is amazing and the detail scares the hell outa me ,i could achieve the detail in a real world build but you truly can make the bat sing, if i turn out half as good you il be happy .Sim fox has some wicked ideas too..

This is the kind of thing my business makes so to see some of your work was a real joy.

I only need to make 3-4 of these a year .Good thing about the bat is you can through your

piece of wood away and get another ,lucky for me or id be bankrupt right now.

[bixel 1,223]

Wow thats a render??? Amazing work. I have to starting doing some interiors as well pretty soon for my portfolio...but I cant stop making buildings!!!

[Gridlock 9]

Not thats what i make at work , its a real life one  , costs well over £40 K to buy..I couldnt render something like that  yet bro , but i could make it for real in about 3 weeks. Its a Victorian style kitchen similar to some of jasons architecture. Its made from maple wood , then painted in the spray shop.

[Sim shady 12]

maybe you would like to mess around in the BAT then, eh?

[Hanson784 165]

Gridlock, how did you get that picture of my kitchen?

Good to hear VanWingerden Plaza has been rendered. I had to go back a couple pages to find it because I forgot what it looked like. I'll make a space in my city for it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Really nice!  If you do that then you'll definitely have no problem at all BATing.  Just keep all of the concepts and principals of that in mind while you BAT. 

Houses where I live cost less than that kitchen, lol. 

[Gridlock 9]

Yeah jason thanks , but realy it is two differant concepts , my knowledge of hands on creating is frustrating , as i know what i want but finding the buttons in max is a completely differant story ,im hoping once i learn the software i can use it to my advantage , i am realy starting of as a newbie in this so only time will tell ,i be patient as see where it goes. But once again your work is amazing , the way you craft , the splines or polys or howevr you do it ,leaves me in total awe.

[Simfan34 11]

Originally posted by: Hanson784 Gridlock, how did you get that picture of my kitchen? quote>

That's mine too!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Hanson:  It's a 2x3, which is wall to wall on the back side (the back side is up against the edge of the lot).  There will also be a shorter version, and also a 2x2 subway/plaza.  This way a modern plaza could be made (or the buildings could be used normally).  You should know if you're making a space for it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Surprise Surprise!!  I've just uploaded Washington Square Arch, made for Hanson784's NYC CJ. 

Happy 4th of July everyone!! 

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

wow great work hanson and jason, the washington square arch looks great, i'll be downloading it right away!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Another surprise will be on the STEX shortly. 

[Sim shady 12]

marieta hotel looks so awesome! Cant wait for the file to be downloadable. Meanwhile, the arch look fantastic in my city, thnx!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks!

Marietta is ok, I had just forgotten to put the dependencies in the description.

RELEASING FRENZY!!

[Sim shady 12]

does releasing frenzy mean even more buildings?

Marietta is unbelievable, to the extent i would say its better done than Mary Hotel, which in itself is a masterpiece. good job