IDS's (mostly) Minnesota BATs

[IDS2 3,346]

Sgt Pepper: Thanks! I dig the boxes Plus there's quite a good supply of them in RL to keep my to do list long.

Aaron Graham: Thanks! I tried that and it worked to some extent. Now at least the lights shine in the right direction and I CAN get previews, except only zooms 1-3...

harishna: That is the problem, I'm pretty sure, but I need to figure out how to resize my LOD...

So yeah, I figure that my problem is that my LOD is too big. The question is, how does one resize an LOD? I tried doing it this way:

But then when I tried to get a preview, it just became unresponsive and did nothing. So is there another way to resize an LOD? If I can do that, I'm all ready to export. I just wanna get this thing done already! Not that I'm gonna rush, but I wanna know the procedure.

Meanwhile, I've been working on reflections and glass in general. I made these boxes, but they don't look realistic to me at all:

However, their previews worked jusssst fine at zoom 5 with a ground plane the same size as the one for WFP. Yikes.

I also made another small box, based on a now-demolished office building down in Bloomington:

Oh, and finally...final (I think) draft of WFP:

Bottom line: how can I shape this building's LOD? I'm totally lost, but I KNOW I have to change it from the 1km x 1km it's at now.

[gutterclub 2,729]

Delete the ground plane, click auto lods and then ctrl + z to bring the ground plane back..thats a crude way of doing it.

With the glass buildings we really need to see proper z5 preview renders because that it what will be in game and the reflection angle will be correct.

For glass, I always advise to scour through some of the HKBAT team threads such as Paul Montforts and Simfoxs and also go through Jasons tutorial, although that essentially for mirror glass, some of the concepts can be used.

I like your models and you have a lot of potential, I think you need to get to grips with BAT4MAX a little more, its a great tool once you get the hang of it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

LODs are simply objects like any other. You can edit them like you have, and it should work just fine. Maybe try again, idk, there shouldn't be a problem with resizing the LODs like that.

[harishna 847]

You can either delete the ground plane and re-fit the LOD's automatically or you can go to LOD's and click show LOD3 manually edit the vertices (exactly what you did) then once you have finished simply click LODs 4&5 so that these get adjusted to the size of LOD3 automatically.

[IDS2 3,346]

gutterclub: hey, it worked! thank you! and I'll get right to that, my windows still need a lot of work.

JasonCW: and now that works too, thanks! My concern was that I heard that you can't place props on an area covered by the lod in LE, so I want to make sure I only have what's necessary.

harishna: Thank you! I've been using auto lods so that worked nicely

Alright, finally! here's the zoom 5 preview! Already it becomes apparent that I need to add more bump to the glass and, of course, change the ground plane texture. And probably change the texture of the columns so you can see the panels, as right now they're pretty faint. There's other spots that look totally untextured, so I guess I'm not as close to exporting this baby as I thought. Nevertheless, here's the second round of textures with modified roofjunk:

Nevertheless, I feel this second round of textures provides much more contrast than the previous one.

[harishna 847]

glad it worked, maybe de-saturate and/or change the luminosity of the roof texture a bit

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Wow, it's looking great!

The roof texture is a bit monotonous and dark right now, so I suggest working some more on it. I like the roof junk very much, but I'm wondering whether some pieces aren't supposed to be metal? If so, it might be worth the trouble playing a bit with the material settings to prevent those HVACs from looking like concrete blocks.

All in all, you're really making great progress, though. I hope you make and keep regular backups!

A word about LODs and prop placement: What you heard is not wrong, but it's not the entire truth. I'll try to explain: The LOD is the box that will be "wallpapered" with the images of your rendered building. This is done by applying 2D snapshots of the rendered model to the sides of the LOD box in a way that it appears to be complex threedimensional structure. Wherever the LOD is "empty" (i.e. not displaying anything massive and untransparent), it will be transparent and allow you to see whatever lies behind.

The same happens with the props you can place on the lot: They also consist of two-dimensional textures wrapped around a simple LOD shell.

Now when you move a prop inside the LOD shell of your building, the LOD of the building will automatically force itself into the foreground. This means that the visible part of any prop inside the building's LOD that overlaps a visible part of the building will be "cut off".

In practice, this often means that you cannot use taller props inside the building LOD. A very common example is placing trees oder lampposts alongside a building.

One thing to bear in mind about LODs is that they have an influence on CPU usage, so even if you make them fit the building snugly, you should stick to low-poly box structures. (The game will automatically switch to simple box LODs in the furthest zoom levels.)

I hope this was halfways understandable. If not, just ask.

[Kifflom112 355]

Nice building, it already has a very realistic look to it in textures. I'll make sure this building has a spot in my skyline.

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Great Work

[IDS2 3,346]

harishna: Thank you, I will definitely get to that!

T Wrecks: Thank you! I'll work on the textures, I was a bit lazy last time And that actually cleared up a lot, I realized I had it pretty backwards but I think I got it now! I'm a bit worried about exporting since my laptop is on the older side, but...I'll worry about that when I get there

Zulu2065: Haha thanks! It's got quite a ways to go but I promise you I'm giving it my best.

Frex_Ceafus: Thanks man!

All right! I've come up with a third round of textures for WFP along with a couple new models while waiting for the thing to render. I did a lot of desaturating, and I think the roof texture looks better, but I'm kind of thinking it looks more shadowy than just old and patchy. I also desaturated the concrete panel texture (light part of the facade) so that the lines dividing the panels are a bit more visible now, but I'm worried that now it'll look too light when I export it. Oh, and I came up with a few more roofjunk textures so hopefully it looks a bit more diverse up there now...

Forgot to mention I changed the ground plane. Hopefully it's a bit more generic now, although I'm still trying new things.

I came up with a couple side projects this week while doing test renders of WFP. The first one is a totally random doodle with an unusual window pattern that's based off the floor tile in my bathroom. So, yeah, it's pretty weird and I don't know what I'd ever use it for:

Finally, I was poking around here and thought maybe I'd try the old (now demolished) Minneapolis central library, built around 1960-1961 and demolished in 2005-2006. I suffered a lack of reference photos, but I was able to scrounge up enough from old Google Earth images and Flickr demolition photos to come up with this:

For one, the planetarium dome (windowless, bomb shelter-esque building at the bottom) has a pattern that I really don't know how to replicate. The pattern I have on there now is just a reminder that it needs work.

Besides that, would anyone actually want the yellow menace? It really was that yellow, but I'm not sure any potential downloaders would care much for it.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I think I would probably want it.

For textures, go to cgtextures.com, and find some textures there. The main thing to do with them is combine them together. For example, for roof texture you could take what you have there, find an image on cgtextures that has a nice pattern/texture to it, and then combine that with what you have in Photoshop.

[Kifflom112 355]

These are beautiful. Finally, someone has come along to create some awesome office buildings.

[harishna 847]

Nice projects have you considered adding a bump map to your windows, check JasonCW Bat thread he has some wicked tutorials

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I definately want that building. I'm a brutalist and international-styled building lover. Your work shows great promise.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I can see Todd and Glenni come around the corner, they also love buildings like the "yellow menace".

As for WFP, if you have your settings right, then the render should look exactly like the preview, i.e. if you take a snapshot and photoshop it into a SimCity scene, the result should match the outcome of your render. The roof would probably be bleached out by the sun a lot, so I guess you can make it a bit brighter. This might also help to bring out the geometry on top of the main tower a little.

Speaking of emphasising the geometry, you can also take your base texture and tailor it to specific surfaces of your building. For example, if you take a screenshot of your building from the top, you can use that as a kind of stencil to make e.g. a customised circular texture for the top of the tower. Then you can add darker smudges around all edges, which increases the three-dimensional effect and helps to bring out details, just like the so-called "washing" procedure in model kit building. Here's a link that illustrates the principle. If you overdo it, the building will end up looking cartoonish, but subtle brightness variations can work quite well.

[IL. 1,043]

cool

When are we going to see some uploads?

[IDS2 3,346]

Jasoncw: Thanks! Thank you for the cool site too, definitely gonna be handy

Zulu2065: Thanks! I really hope the end result lives up to your expectations.

Harishna: Ooh thank you I completely forgot about the bump map! I did some reading, I understand the process, just gotta come up with a decent bitmap.

Sgt Pepper: Then it's on the list! Thank you!

T Wrecks: Thanks! I brightened up the roof (maybe a bit too much, but easily fixed) and that washing technique really offers a lot more room for detail! I got a bit carried away, of course I'll try to make it look a bit less cartoonish.

IL: Thanks! My goal is to have this thing done a couple weeks out. I'm hoping once I export the thing it'll be easier from there.

Alright! Little mini-update just to touch base...first and foremost, I'm having a lot of trouble with making a bump map for my windows. I understand the whole concept of how to apply them, I just can't come up with a set that looks halfway decent. I've been working hard at it, but until then all my windows are gonna look way too mirrored.

I've lightened up the roof (I think I might have overdone it, but I'll let you guys decide) and added some character to it based off the real one.

It looks overly simple to me...the roof junk for the real building is this simple, but something feels lacking. Idk.

I did a lotttt of experimenting with that washing procedure, and I think I went overboard however, I'm thinking I might be able to get away with only fixing the "border" on the lowrise portion. Here's a little pre-brightening picture, I'm hoping for brightness somewhere in between.

So it seems that I need to:

-add bump map to windows

-adjust roof brightness

-fix grimy "border" on the roof

-change texture on ground plane

-change the dark texture on the parapet thing at the base of the cylinder

EDIT: About the parapet thing: Does this look any better? I feel the contrast has been messed up now, but if I darken the roof it might work...or should I start with a new parapet texture entirely? Am I going in the wrong direction?

On second thought, I definitely need to add more detail to that roofjunk, it looks pathetic right now.

Am I missing anything? I can do most of these in one shot. I'm gonna be a perfectionist about this, so be honest!

I've been working on another library in the meantime. I'm trying to focus, I swear

  Edited August 3, 2011 by IDS2  

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

Great work, it is improved alot

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

I think it looks good, mabe fix the textures and roof junk textures a little more, I still see that Maxis texture look, Keep it up you getting better and better.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

In fact, I don't think you have overdone the "washing" effect at all. You could also accentuate all other outlines, and if you then bleach out wide open surfaces a little, the shapes will come out even better. Here, try this on for size - it's a quick GIMP makeover to simulate what I mean:

The cracks in the concrete are too strong, that's the only real problem I see. Other than that, the roof texture looks like a fine base to me upon which you can build if you customize it a little.

[IDS2 3,346]

Thanks Frex and Aaron! Oh and Aaron, I finally got rid of the last Maxis textures, so a lot more flexibility now

T Wrecks: I actually really like that idea! I'll get right to that Thank you!

Quick update: I've been working on more roofjunk to try and tie the top of the tower together. I like it so far, but I'll be changing up a little bit more...

Also, I'm having a LOT of trouble coming up with some decent bumpmaps. It's such a small detail since this building doesn't have a huge glass facade, but I really really need to tone down the mirror-like quality it has right now...so I'll keep trying to get a good set of bumpmaps made soon.

And yeah, I'm gonna change the ground plane texture. As a finishing touch I'm gonna retexture a couple of the roofjunk units and add a scupper/gutter to the front entrance overhang and add some detail to the panels on the roof of the overhang. And perhaps some more mullions on the connecting hallway between the two buildings.

So, this complex is shaping up to be about 10x5.

Would anyone be interested in me adding some nice trees to the model instead of having them as dependencies?

  Edited August 4, 2011 by IDS2  

[harishna 847]

have you checked JasonCW tutorials? he describe a really convincing technique for modelling reflective window panels.

  Edited August 4, 2011 by harishna  

[IDS2 3,346]

Ah thanks harishna! I think I understand the procedure now

Alright, so I applied a bump map. I know it's way too repetitive right now because there's only one, but just to confirm that I'm doing it right? (Does the new concrete texture look too dark?)

I realize it looks like not all windows have it, I think that's because I sized the map for the smaller windows, I'll do a separate one for the larger ones. And I'll fix those spots where the windows don't show up.

  Edited August 5, 2011 by IDS2  

[Kifflom112 355]

These textures are looking real nice. I love the reflections by the way.

[IDS2 3,346]

Thanks zulu!

Alright! So, I've got 4 bitmaps now, and I'm trying to apply a random material ID script. I came up with this one:

numberOfSubMaterials = 3 -- Set the number of sub-materials here!! originalSelection = polyop.getFaceSelection $ countOriginalSelection = originalSelection.count for i=1 to numberOfSubMaterials do ( antiArray = #{1..countOriginalSelection} for i=1 to antiArray.count do antiArray = (random 0 1) >= 1 mergedArray = originalSelection * antiArray polyop.setFaceMatID $ mergedArray (random 1 numberOfSubMaterials) )

And now...I have no idea what to do with this thing, there weren't very good instructions on the site I got it from. I have 4 bump maps and 2 noise maps, just like in the tutorial, all included within my main glass material. I guess my question is how do I know how many sub materials I have? Do I run the script as-is?

  Edited August 5, 2011 by IDS2  

[harishna 847]

what version of max you using? for v2011 and above you don't need scripts, all you need is to have a Multi/Sub-map asing all your bitmaps then go to parameters and on Switch color/Map based on select Random and there you go, simple!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Looks great, I also think the roof junk may need a little more detail, but that's up to you the building is looking great. Keep it up.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

There are scripts that you can download, and then you can go Maxscript>Run Script, and you don't have to do anything. There are also kinds that you can put into your UI (the menus in max are customizable) for convenience.

[_marsh_ 1,117]

Beautiful work on that.

[SimFox 802]

WFP looks good!

It is my personal opinion but I think Jason's method is way overkill. And it also create very monotonous and highly repetitive effect that actually works against it. T&he problem here is, imho, in a rather vain attempt to re-create reality. Any such attempt will likely fail and result in something that doesn't really "look" or appear as realistic.

there is a much simpler and more robust way to create appearance of glass imperfection, and more often than not the said effect is far more realistic. Plus since it is a procedural it is quick and easy to do and will guarantee non-repetition.

So what you need is a multi-material with 2 (I believe it would be sufficient for this type of windows) sub-materials. These sub-materials should be your glass mats and be identical in every respect except. That is apart form bump channel. And even there you don't really need anything "different". For bump channel just use procedural Noise map. You can use the same one as well. Remember to set it along these lines:

The only difference in these two sub-materials should be the Phase (3) of the noise.

Now to apply these 2 sub multi-material to your windows. It is very simple as well, just make sure that it goes on windows in a check sort of patterns like this:

Difference in the phase of the noise as well as placement in check pattern will insures that any distortion in the reflection resulting from such bump will not flow seamlessly from one panel of the glass to the next.

for the strength of bump (if you go with normal black and white noise) I would suggest something in the interval of ,02-,05 for most cases. more for older buildings, less for newer...

As for the "dirt" on the roofs... I would respectfully disagree with T-Wrecks suggestion. IMHO it doesn't look realistic, instead it looks typical overboard SGI like in old games. Also most of the things should follow some logic, not just smudges here and there. These wouldn't work too well on a large open surface like this roof.

I would also get rid of somewhat silly and "against the grain" looking square lattice on the GF windows of the tower and go with original elongated lattice - it would fit the whole design of the tower far better. It would also be good to do something with over explicit reflections on the GF windows.

Generally speaking you may try to reduce reflectivity of the glass and go with "blinds" approach - not a strong one, just enough to give a hit o them being there - so that it would be apparent only on the sunny side of the tower. In this case you can duplicate your window panels and move them in just a tad. Here you can use randomized material with various settings of grey in a defuse channel. Panels with lighter grey would be seen through the glass, darker ones would be essentially invisible.

PS

you may want to take another look at the design of the rotunda. it actually overhangs the parapet wall:

I believe it does make a significant difference in appearance. Also take a look at the color scheme of the floor7floors just above GF... btw I think original, less contrasty color scheme was better for this particular tower, but well...

  Edited August 6, 2011 by SimFox