Real Highway (RHW) - Development and Support

[JakeMD 107]

nice, looking forward to seeing that!

[beebs 129]

Ahhh, gotchas. I just find the RHW a little awkward to use still, so I was hoping that this option might be possible. Ah well.. practice will make perfect!

[Tarkus 6,932]

Well, beebs, it would be a highly experimental setup, but there may actually be a way to do that.

The difference between the way texture-based (2D) and model-based (3D) networks function is that the game can directly reference the texture-based networks, but the model-based networks need network-specific exemplars in order to make them work. 

The idea I had awhile ago was to actually create "dummy" exemplars in a separate .dat file (basically, entirely zeroed out), which cancel out the Elevated and Ground Highway exemplars.

Theoretically, at this point, it would revert to being texture based, and just placing the textures at the IIDs where the models once were might work.  As far as the pathing goes, at that point, a lot of them I could actually borrow directly from the RHW and even the Avenue network.   Of course, there's no guarantee it would work, but it's something I think might be worth looking into at some point.

Essentially, this is how the new Draggable GLR works.  I've also done the exact opposite in some extremely experimental projects involving the RHW, which I can't show to the public just yet.  I'll just say my transit-modding colleagues who have seen it think I'm insane. 

The difference between those projects and this is that this is a default, in-game base network, and that's the reason I'm a little cautious of the viability of this.   

Hope that answers your question, and I hope that wasn't too technical.

-Tarkus

[tewphoty 0]

K so i made a RHW network in one of my newer cities, and I was wondering......can sims actually use the RHW? I ask because I set up a neighborhood connected to an office park only by a rhw.  i also created an industrial park connected to the neighborhood only by a regular road. all of the sims are working either in the industrial sector or at the highschool/police/fire/hospital in the neighborhood. any ideas why its not getting usage? 

edit::  also, i know RHWs can be connected to neighboring cities, but can sims also use these connections? 

[bakercity 270]

yes they do use it tewphoty. I use it alot and it works.

[beebs 129]

Originally posted by: Tarkus Well, beebs, it would be a highly experimental setup, but there may actually be a way to do that.

The difference between the way texture-based (2D) and model-based (3D) networks function is that the game can directly reference the texture-based networks, but the model-based networks need network-specific exemplars in order to make them work. 

The idea I had awhile ago was to actually create "dummy" exemplars in a separate .dat file (basically, entirely zeroed out), which cancel out the Elevated and Ground Highway exemplars.

Theoretically, at this point, it would revert to being texture based, and just placing the textures at the IIDs where the models once were might work.  As far as the pathing goes, at that point, a lot of them I could actually borrow directly from the RHW and even the Avenue network.   Of course, there's no guarantee it would work, but it's something I think might be worth looking into at some point.

Essentially, this is how the new Draggable GLR works.  I've also done the exact opposite in some extremely experimental projects involving the RHW, which I can't show to the public just yet.  I'll just say my transit-modding colleagues who have seen it think I'm insane. 

The difference between those projects and this is that this is a default, in-game base network, and that's the reason I'm a little cautious of the viability of this.   

Hope that answers your question, and I hope that wasn't too technical.

-Tarkusquote>

*That* would be interesting.. and I know that I for one would love it if it ended up working. Capilano Valley and I would be eternally in your debt (not that that means a heck of a lot, but it's the thought that counts ) At the very least, you would be learning more about the games boundaries.

If not, I'll just have to live with the RHW . Jk The RHW is quite the work, I must say.

[warrior 169]

Is there any possibilty of having TE lots for the RHW, if so could some add it to SC4 Tool(?) because i really need a toll booth in one of my cities and don't want to change to avenue and then an avenue toll booth and then RHW again.

Also is there a reason why the RHW v13 doesn't connect to ground highways as im sure v12 did.

Any way keep up the great work

[Sandis_van_Great 346]

it is soo fantastik

[Tarkus 6,932]

warrior:  Well, there is a way to Transit-Enable Lots for the RHW, though it can't be done with SC4 Tool the normal way, as it wasn't set up for the ANT/RHW network.  The way I do it involves using iLive's Reader.  I'd first transit-enable the lot for another network, then go into iLive's Reader and look for the LotConfigurations exemplar (Group ID A8FBD372). 

Find the lines in there labelled "Unknown" with 16 "reps" (values).  The fourth-to-last value is for the transit network the lot (or the square in the lot) is being enabled for.  (There will be a 16-value "Unknown" line for each transit-enabled tile in the lot.)  The one highlighted here is the value for transit-enabling.  It will always be a string of seven zeros after the "0x".

Here, this lot is transit-enabled for One-Way Roads (0x0000000A).  The value for the ANT/RHW network is 0x0000000B, so you'll want to change it to that.  Here's the complete list, in case you were wondering:

0x00000000=Road

0x00000001=Rail

0x00000002=Highway

0x00000003=Street

0x00000004=Pipe

0x00000005=PowerPoles

0x00000006=Avenue

0x00000007=Subway

0x00000008=Elevated Rail

0x00000009=Monorail

0x0000000A=One-way roads

0x0000000B=ANT (Dirt Roads)

0x0000000C=Ground Highway

And if you're wondering about the Ground Highway connection to the RHW, it actually never has worked.  There's something weird with the override and the pathing.  I hope to have it fixed by RHW v14. 

Hope that answers your question.

And speaking of the next version, in case everyone was wondering, it will actually be RHW v13b, as the next NAM is coming out sooner than I had originally anticipated, and I can't get the v14 features done in time for a concurrent release of that.  Rest assured, I am still working on it.  Just want to make sure it's up to par. 

-Tarkus

[benvoliothefirst 36]

Hi there! I'm dying to use the RHW, since I'm from New Hampshire and that's pretty much all we've got out here in the boonies, but I've got a question. Rural highways don't show up in my region view... is it just me? I'm using Hammo's Region Legend Transport Mod (https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=17605), a region legend mod that changes the colors of all the roads in region view. If I get rid of it (which would make me sad...) will they show up?

And if not, is making the ANT/RHW show up in region view in the works? I really hope so, I take pride in my region view!

Thanks for all the hard work so far!

[Tarkus 6,932]

benvoliothefirst:  Thanks for the compliments--it's really no problem.

To answer your question about the regional Transportation View, unfortunately, the RHW, as well as the base ANT network cannot show up on the Region View, regardless of any sort of Region View mod used.  This is mainly due to the fact that the network was something that was left uncompleted by Maxis/EA, and while it was brought back into the game by the NAM Team some time ago (long before I was ever part of it), there are still some things we haven't figured out with it.  The way in which the game identifies the various transit networks and draws them on the map is via Instance IDs, which tell the game what network to reference. 

Unfortunately, the Instance ID that would allow the game to draw the RHW/ANT network on the Transportation Map is locked up somewhere in the .EXE file where we can't get into it.  qurlix, the founder of the RHW Project (who seems to have disappeared from the community as of late, sadly) had found some loophole to do it, which involved editing all the parks in the game and adding some properties to the actual network which essentially made the RHW function as a park in addition to being a transit network, but I'm not sure if there were any complications from that.

I did actually find my own little "glitch" which allowed it to show up, by using the DrawPaths cheat from Buggi's Extra Cheats .dll file and then saving and exiting the city tile, but it also turned all the transit networks in the game various colors in the Satellite View as well.

So in short, the answer is unfortunately no, unless you're happy with the DrawPaths glitch.  I agree, though, that it would be nice to fix that problem.

-Tarkus

[nerdly_dood 26]

The closest thing to a rhw onramp is the road-over-avenue on/offramp, and the avenue textures don't line up there at all. i think there should be a rh onramp that requires ground lifters or hole digger, bc the only onramps where i live are on manmade hills, with a valley in the middle for the road or highway, whichever is not on top.

[redfox85 659]

Originally posted by: Tarkus benvoliothefirst: 

Unfortunately, the Instance ID that would allow the game to draw the RHW/ANT network on the Transportation Map is locked up somewhere in the .EXE file where we can't get into it.  qurlix, the founder of the RHW Project (who seems to have disappeared from the community as of late, sadly) had found some loophole to do it, which involved editing all the parks in the game and adding some properties to the actual network which essentially made the RHW function as a park in addition to being a transit network, but I'm not sure if there were any complications from that.

-Tarkusquote>

That would be neat to have Park Ways in the game. And it would double to give the RHW a new name...

[hoshattack 0]

park ways....lol, yeah it'd be nice. I think I read in some odd article on here about someone getting in the .EXE file....not sure where.

anyways,

[Tarkus 6,932]

Anung Mwka: Well, if I wanted to be egotistical, I could call them "Tarkways".  Not going to do that, though.  It would be more appropriate to call them QHWs (qurlix Highways) since he's the one who started this project.  

hoshattack:  There were a couple mentions in the SimCity 4 General Discussion board about getting into the .exe.  We've had a few people in talks with Maxis about either releasing some .exe-related modifications like Buggi (with the Extra Cheats.dll file) and the GoaSkin had talked about making an open-source SimCity, which would really be great.  It's mainly just a matter of finding the code to get the network to show up though.  It is just hiding somewhere in the .exe, so theoretically, I would imagine it wouldn't necessarily need to be modified, per se, but there's millions of lines of code in the that would have to be sifted through. 

Everyone:  Well, I haven't had much to update lately.  Busy with RL and various projects that I don't have enough to show for here.  As I stated before, RHW v13b will be the next release.  There's not going to be too much new as part of that release.  It's mainly to make the RHW compatible with the next NAM and to solve the dual-icon issue (which memo helped out with).  And Shadow Assassin also worked up a nice new icon for the RHW, which you'll also be seeing. 

The MIS will unfortunately be delayed to the release after RHW v13b.  The RHW may also be merging with another mod (besides the NAM), which I've hinted at on several occasions (see my sig).  Stay tuned for more details . . .

-Tarkus

[tommiej 0]

i surely hope that there will be an open source SC4.. i would make the modders very happy i think..

[CWLGAMER01 39]

Page 69!!! YEPPIE!!!

[Haljackey 17,354]

So Tarkus, other than a NAM-compatible version for the next release, will there be anything else included in 0.13b?

[Tarkus 6,932]

haljackey:  Well, other than the NAM Compatibility, not much. Just a new icon, which won't be duplicated anymore.  v13b is nothing more than a "patch".  The new NAM is coming out a lot sooner than many realize.  I can't give a release date, of course but it's very soon, and soon enough to alter my original plans, making this "stopgap" release necessary. 

My main goal with the RHW is to keep it compatible with the NAM at all times, even if it means delaying anticipated new features or making a new release that does nothing but make it NAM-compatible.  As you all saw with v17, the opposite (delaying NAM compatibility for new features) doesn't really work that well.  Unless, of course, you're looking forward to complaining about how Draggable GLR and all the other cool new NAM features won't work with the currently available version.

The next real version of the RHW will have a ton of new features (the MIS, for starters), and you'll likely see it fairly quickly still.  You just get a new NAM and a "fix" for the RHW to work with it beforehand.  And my apologies for having to release yet another "v13".  I hope you can all forgive me for it.  

-Tarkus

[redfox85 659]

Originally posted by: Tarkus Anung Mwka: Well, if I wanted to be egotistical, I could call them "Tarkways".  Not going to do that, though.  It would be more appropriate to call them QHWs (qurlix Highways) since he's the one who started this project.  

-Tarkusquote>

I take it you've never heard of parkways?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkway

[Tarkus 6,932]

Anung Mwka:  I do know what parkways are.  That was just a really bad pun I was making (Tarkus + Parkways = Tarkways).  As far as renaming the RHW the "Parkway" mod, that's an interesting suggestion, but I'm not entirely in favor of it, even if we do alter the parks and give the RHW a park effect--which would likely be zeroed out or minimized.  It would only be enough to make the network show up on the transit map. 

I'm also not sure of the effect of that modification would be on the parks as well, since I haven't tried it myself (qurlix did the experiment).  I'm uncertain what the effect of custom parks would be on this as well. 

One also runs into the whole issue with differing definitions too, as happened when someone suggested "Expressway".  Most Parkways here on the western US are almost exactly like the Maxis Avenues--surface streets (usually 4 lanes) with landscaped medians.  One could built a parkway with the RHW (in the East Coast sense) by placing some sort of a Truck Blocking TE Lot on it, but I'd prefer to not limit it there.    Thanks for the suggestion, though.

-Tarkus

[Rymac91 15]

ok, love how this project is going...and I have a question.

Wouldn't it be easier to number versions that are updated only for name and lack new features with a . instead of a new version number? Then when a new NAM compatible version comes out, it'll be called RHW ver. 13.1..then 13.2 and so on. Then when a version with new features comes out, it'll simply be called 17.0 and then 17.1 for any version that has been patched for NAM.

[sc4portugal 10]

WOW this is all going so well, but where can I find the 2 lane RHW?

[benvoliothefirst 36]

Thanks for the response, Tarkus. Sorry to hear that getting RHWs into the region transport view would be so difficult. But thanks for explaining it in such a helpful way!

P.S. Are there any plans to change the textures on the original ANT network so it looks more like the RHW?

[Haljackey 17,354]

One more question about the ANT (RHW-2). With Version 0.13 or 0.13 a, it is not transit enabled and cars just vanish when they travel on it or in u-drive it mode. Is it just me or do others have this problem?

[Tarkus 6,932]

Rymac91:  Thanks!  To answer your question about version numbers, well, I'm kind of doing that a little bit already by having 13a (the current one) and 13b (the next release), though in hindsight, that may have been a little better to do the decimal method.  However, some interesting things will be happening after 13b, which will completely change things, that I will get to in a moment.

sc4portugal:  Thanks for the compliments!  As far as the 2-lane RHW, mjig_dudy posted it a few pages back.  Here is a direct link.

benvoliothefirst:  No problem!  Just glad I could help.   By the way, if you're wondering about a new texture for the base ANT network/2-lane RHWs, check out that link I gave sc4portugal. 

haljackey:  Hmm . . . that's really odd.  I've run those versions without any problem with the base RHW-2/ANT network.  Try using the DrawPaths cheat on it to see if there's still paths on it.  If not, there's some sort of conflict going on with your mods.

Everyone:  Well, you those "interesting things" I mentioned?  Well, here's the big announcement.

The RHW will cease to exist as a separate mod after the release of RHW v14, possibly even by the next release (13b).  The RHW will become an integral component in a new mod package, the Network Widening Mod, or NWM for short.  In addition to the RHW, the NWM project will also incorporate the Turning Lane Avenues (TLA) project, as well as the Wider One-Ways project, and future override-based network extensions.

There may be some more related announcements here soon, relating to other recent developments in the transit modding community.  I'll keep you posted.

-Tarkus

[warrior 169]

For the RHW-2 that i downloaded from Tarkus's sig do I have to Have either Normal RHW or RHW-2 or can I have both because when I play SC4 and make normal RHW and then drag a road into it the RHW texture on that grid changes to the RHW2 texture. I will post a picture soon. Although if i drag street through it remains the normal RHW texture.

EDIT: I also found that if I put three streets next to each other in the normal RHW it changes two of them to RHW-2.

EDIT IMAGE:

[Pixelrage 34]

Originally posted by: Tarkus [The RHW will become an integral component in a new mod package, the Network Widening Mod, or NWM for short.  In addition to the RHW, the NWM project will also incorporate the Turning Lane Avenues (TLA) project, as well as the Wider One-Ways project, and future override-based network extensionsquote>

I'm overjoyed

[sc4portugal 10]

Thanks and the NWM sounds great

[bakercity 270]

I am looking out for all of this stuff. I do not need a release date as I will wait for it when it comes out. (jumping with joy and excitement at the announcement)