nybt-forum-threads Seraf's Atelier

[Seraf 1,238]

Thank you guys, Francis I reduced the amount of soot on the roof and base like you said, hope now it looks right

Those renders are the last ones before night renders I think. There are only a few things to do like sculpture or ornamental grilles on rear facade. As you can see I added floors inside the building, so windows got some depth instead flat grey color.

  Edited December 18, 2011 by Seraf  

[Amthaak 1,501]

It is just amazing! speechless! Nitelites coming soon???

[Francis90b 748]

It's a nice step forward!

Personally i'd add some soot over the building, or further reduce the soot on the base...the point is that having a sooty base and an immacutate building is realistic to a point (i will elaborate that in the end)

You are of the city beautyful moviment (didn't you say that once ?), so i assume you'd like to make it look well polished and clean, just as it was when it was built...but then also the base should be almost as clean as the building.(unless they weren't built in different periods!)

On the other hand, some players might find a clean base unrealistic, and tells you it needs more dirt...and if you decide to follow them, you add soot on the base, but the building needs it's amount of soot as well.

While a base with soot and a clean building might please everyone here, it's deeply unrealistic...because if two parts of a building were built in the same period, they would be exposed to the elements in more or less the same way (as much).

So, the more the parts are similar in their sooting degree (whatever it might be, from perfectly clean to completely drown in soot), the better it will be.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about it.

[Seraf 1,238]

Amthaak - Thanks And yes, just when I'm finished with day view (which I hope will be today )

Francis - I totally agree with what you said. And to be honest I really don't know what to do now. If I make building clean, it can be wrong for some people, and if I make it dirty and sooty. I won't be pleased with effect of my work. I think that one good argument for making the facade clean, and the base not-too-dirty is that the building is newly renovated and cleaned now. What do you think?

[Francis90b 748]

Amthaak - Thanks And yes, just when I'm finished with day view (which I hope will be today )

Francis - I totally agree with what you said. And to be honest I really don't know what to do now. If I make building clean, it can be wrong for some people, and if I make it dirty and sooty. I won't be pleased with effect of my work. I think that one good argument for making the facade clean, and the base not-too-dirty is that the building is newly renovated and cleaned now. What do you think?

In the end, what ti matters are:

1)what makes sense and

2) what do you (and NOT other people) think...

If you think that the cleanest the best, then go for it.

If you'd like to show one part cleaner and the other sootier, you might find a way to make it clear that the surfaces are being renovated and cleaned.

But i would warn you against thinking in terms of absolutes about soot.It's one of the most common misconceptions about BATs.

If a BAT has a slight, even little amount of soot, then it's classified as "ghetto" or "rundown" or "commie"...which is absolutely nonsensical, given the fact that IRL many buildings possess varying degrees of soot...reality is a scale of gray (or soot ) rather than a dycothomy of black and white absolutes.

Let's consider this building from my hometown....it's in a very good location, and it was repainted just few years ago (it was in the early 2000s).

If someone were to make it as it looks there, people would consider it rundown, or too dirty or would start telling the BATer "why did you add soot to that beautiful building? it spoils it!"...or would simply advice you to get rid of it's soot in it...

And that just because the building itself would probably be considered as a beautiful little gem, and as such involnerable to soot, at least in SC4!

But, if you feel like adding soot to it would clash with your own vision, and your own idea about how that building should be, then go for a "new & clean" version...everything's fine, as long as it makes sense and fits with what your idea is.

[Seraf 1,238]

I'll clean the dry moat a bit more and leave the rest as is. The roof isn't something that is visible from street level so even if the building facade was renovated the roof can be still dirty.

I will post the last render with missing elements when max finishes it

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

The whole model looks great sense you have showed all sides of the building, I think the windows texture need a little more work and I think the HVAC need a little wok on the texturing, I think the area where the fan is at should be black sense that will be a dark area. I do not want to stop you or slow you down from uploading this to STEX this year.

[Simbourgeois 139]

I am speechless Splendid BAT, what else can I say...

[Seraf 1,238]

Ok, dayview of FPO is already exported and here's how it looks:

Time for nightview and here are the images showing most of the work on them:

I apologize for that long delay, I didn't have much time for BATing since Christmas.

[_marsh_ 1,117]

No need for apologies. Everyone has a real life they must attain to. The wait is worth it as your buildings are always a pleasure to see.

,marsh

[Mack The Finger 34]

I have been following this for months now and I personally think this can't get any better than what it is right now. This has gone beyond my expectations!

[Jazzmaster 716]

Fantastic work my friend! I've followed your thread for at least a year now and I love watching your progress. You are doing the projects that not many people would take up, because they're so enormous and detailed and people simply have the time, the motivation or the dedication. Even if not everyone thinks your finished project for FPO is perfect, I love it, and I'm going to embrace it and accept it in my city. I'll stay loyal to your work because you finish it, and it's not just an idea of perfect work, it's stuff getting done, and it's done by one of the humblest members on the this website IMO (nothing at all against any of the other community members!). Thank you so much for doing this...for yourself and the community.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

I would say you're done unless there's something else you need to do. Oh and I mean that in a way that it looks great, not that I want to rush you to finish!

Take your time Seraf, it's coming along greatly!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Looks great Seraf.

[Francis90b 748]

Nightlighting is looking great!

I've found some pics of the FPO at night, maybe you might be interested:

If you aren't interested in replicating this night scheme, what you currently have is looking very nice.

But there are some things that i'd like to point out.

The first is that you should add some (few) more lit windows on the facades, just few of them, not much.

The second is that it would be a good idea to provide some more illumination on the external stairs and other access points...if the building is in use at night, it would probably have a couple of well lit entrances.

The third is that i think it would be a good idea to make the floodlights a little bit "warmer"...which means that the light they cast should be geared a bit more towards yellow.

[art128 4,618]

The night lights already looks great!

[Seraf 1,238]

Thank you guys for your comments and kind words, but I'm afraid I have bad news. For now I don't know if I will upload FPO because I got this bug on exported building:

I don't know what is causing this, so I can't fix it. Looks like I'm stuck, unless someone knows a solution for this problem...

[Jazzmaster 716]

Oh no!

Nofunk had a similar problem, a solution as well as the problem itself are both on this page of his BAT thread: https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/topic/13203-nofunks-bat-thread/page__st__1440

I hope that helps at least a bit!

[Seraf 1,238]

Thank you Yoshii for that link, in fact it didn't solve the problem but it lead me to another solution and thanks to that I have correctly exported post office now

So, here's another view with nightlights, there are some errors like "X" between the columns but I will fix it later.

The only thing missing now is the ilumination of the main and side stairs..

[ohai147 9]

Yoshi is a hero

[Vlasky 1,803]

Looking gorgeous! Few things tho, do light up some more windows, add glare and add light sources of all that decorative light as seen on picture Fran posted:

[T Wrecks 10,209]

To be honest, I'm not sure at all about the spotlights around the building. The rest is really marvelous, but the spots don't convince me, especially those at the "towers". You see a light cone there, but no point from which the light originates.

If you look at the photograph, you see that a) the lights are of a much warmer hue, and b) they originate from lamps that are fixed above the columns and shine downwards. At the towers, the "pyramid" structures on the rooftops are illuminated by small lampposts with horizontally oriented spots. Apparently there are also some smaller spots in the roof on top of the gallery.

All in all, I think the biggest problem are the huge spots at the "towers".

[Seraf 1,238]

Thank you Vlasky, the light sources issue is one of the most problematic now. As Wreck said lights did not convince him, as well as me.

I was trying to delete them from project because the modern version of exterior lamps is just ugly.

There are only two on the building which already fit because they were designed by MM&W. But despite all that I don't like the effect.

T Wrecks - Thank you. I've seen that photo earlier, I have it in my own sources.

But as I said I was trying to change the scheme of building ilumination because of aeshtetic espects

So, I think what I will do now is put the lights to correct positions but instead of adding these ugly-dull lamps I will design my own lamps. What do you think?

[Vlasky 1,803]

well either design your own lamps, or use the ones in vintage photos as a base for building them. Since you said that you do have plans for it (blue prints) you can simply check out specs of those original lamps and make them. Lamp post are rather easy thing to make, I know from experience

[Francis90b 748]

Well, it you want to design your lamps, that might be great!

Maybe you might also try looking if the building already had floodlights in the past, and how they were built and applied.

"Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" - that's the inscription on the front of the FPO, taken from Herodotus....whatever you might do with your lights, please make sure to lit it.

[Seraf 1,238]

Vlasky - Unfortunately there is nothing I can take as a reference. In 1925 building still didn't have any lamps on its elevation, probably because there were street lamps designed by MM&W very similar to those around Penn Station. On the photo from 1955 I can see small (probably) metal lamps. But that's all. There is also nothing on drawings I have...

Francis - I assure you that I won't forget to illuminate the inscription

[Francis90b 748]

Well, to be a bit more precise about what i was saying, in your current nightlight scheme the inscription is only partially lit...the light cones that lit it are fairly spaced out and they somehow create a "line of lit dots", while the inscription might require a more continuous line.This means placing the light cones closer together, or make them a bit more powerful.

[Seraf 1,238]

Francis - Yes, it's because I deleted the correct illumination of the inscription by accident and left the test version I fixed it already

Yesterday I realized that those big ugly lamps are only on the side elevations of the building. I don't know why I didn't notice that earlier, maybe because on some photos I have these lamps are also on front facade. I find current lamps from front facade looking very nice so I made them in my model.

I also changed the scheme of nightlights to actual one.

I think I'll add lights on the rest of main cornice and above the entrances in pavilons

[T Wrecks 10,209]

That's looking great so far! And it solves the problem of the stairs not being lit, too.

[Delecto 941]

The nightlights look very convincing now. Great progress.

Sam.