District of Wenzel | Update 116 - (Ouisconsin County) Morgan Town: Rival to the South

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

Maxis or not, it's still a good-looking piece of work.  Nice job all around!

[tonyr 926]

Awesome update packersfan, I love it!

[Sabretooth78 808]

I'll never put that much level of detail into an interchange simply because I find the effort too tedious, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate seeing others do it.

 

I like the configuration, but I'm actually a little surprised to see I-680 run off the bottom of the map.

 

Regarding the use of RHW (or lack thereof) do you know if you can connect the MIS to those ramps?  If it's possible, it seems it might look a little better than using one ways while not adding any complexity.

[bakercity 270]

Packersfan, I like how you did the signs and wish I knew how to do that. Anyway, what an awesome update. Even though you don't use RHW for the most part, the interchange looks great no matter what my good man. Keep up the great work. JKB

[dfnva 34]

Wow -- amazing interchange, I particularly like the clever way that the ramps from I-255 go to I-55/I-80 since Maidens Rd and Holland Lane cause there to be a lack of room. Very realistic and creative.

 

The signs are great -- bonus points for not caving to Clearview like many states have done. Did you make those signs as lots or are they photoshopped in?  Either way, they look great.

 

As far as usage of maxis freeways and one-way roads, I must concur. I've been using them in a new region I'm building, particularly in highly-populated areas. I feel they give me more flexibility and take less room than RHW. Though, I do use RHW in other areas -- depends on how much room and how much flexibility I need.

 

Keep up the great work!

 

-Dan

[Sabretooth78 808]

The funny thing is that I believe FHWA has rescinded the authorization to use Clearview here in the US I believe due to some technicality or lack of conclusive study as to whether it is actually more legible.  I'm not sure what that means to the states and agencies that already seem to have adopted it as their standard.  Personally, I don't see how there's even an argument; it looks to me anyway to be vastly superior.

[Ke|is 3,338]

Another awesome update ! I still have no words for your region view, your region looks very very realistic from that view.

[Benedict 3,119]

Greta update as always. Like the highway signs a lot.

[packersfan 667]

Replies:

NMUSpidey: Maxis or not, it's still a good-looking piece of work. Nice job all around!

In the perfect situation, it would be a perfect version of what RHW is going for. Unfortunately, I still don't have the comfort level with RHW that I need to build my interchanges with flexibility, etc. Of course, I prefer the RHW look as it is far more realistic...but...ohh well.

Thanks. It is what it is. It isn't even the best design for an interchange. Creative, yes, but not the best road design for interdistrict highway speeds, haha.

tonyr: Awesome update packersfan, I love it!

Thanks. I hope you like roadgeekery as the next two updates will show the interchange from different approaches complete with signs.

Sabretooth78: I'll never put that much level of detail into an interchange simply because I find the effort too tedious, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate seeing others do it.

I like the configuration, but I'm actually a little surprised to see I-680 run off the bottom of the map.

Regarding the use of RHW (or lack thereof) do you know if you can connect the MIS to those ramps? If it's possible, it seems it might look a little better than using one ways while not adding any complexity.

Thank you. What surprises you about I-680? Do you think it should travel more directly west? I'm debating changing the direction of it, but I think my intent is to go around the south end of the airport I'm working on building in the southwest area. Not sure if I can connect MIS ramps...One reason I don't use RHW extensively is because I'm not very good at MIS ramps and stuff, yet.

bakercity: Packersfan, I like how you did the signs and wish I knew how to do that. Anyway, what an awesome update. Even though you don't use RHW for the most part, the interchange looks great no matter what my good man. Keep up the great work. JKB

Thanks! I know that the Maxis freeways just don't have that look anymore, now that RHW is more prolific, but I still haven't mastered RHW.

dfnva: Wow -- amazing interchange, I particularly like the clever way that the ramps from I-255 go to I-55/I-80 since Maidens Rd and Holland Lane cause there to be a lack of room. Very realistic and creative.

The signs are great -- bonus points for not caving to Clearview like many states have done. Did you make those signs as lots or are they photoshopped in? Either way, they look great.

As far as usage of maxis freeways and one-way roads, I must concur. I've been using them in a new region I'm building, particularly in highly-populated areas. I feel they give me more flexibility and take less room than RHW. Though, I do use RHW in other areas -- depends on how much room and how much flexibility I need.

Keep up the great work!

-Dan

Thanks. I'm always trying to figure out ways to avoid building three or four stack interchanges, since I just don't know how to do that. In this case, I got a pretty unique looking interchange.

I thought I was using clearview. I think I'm using RoadGeekery E(M) font which is supposed to be the same as the U.S.D.O.T. My signs seem to resemble what is contained in the USDOT Sign Manual from 2003. Maybe clearview is newer than that. Does Clearview have more space between letters?

Ideally, I would like to use RHW everywhere as it is much more realistic looking, but it is not AS flexible as the mix and match of Maxis freeways and one-way roads. Diagonal bridge support, tighter or looser curves, etc.

And I only photoshopped those signs in. I don't know how to make sign props or lots.

Sabretooth78: The funny thing is that I believe FHWA has rescinded the authorization to use Clearview here in the US I believe due to some technicality or lack of conclusive study as to whether it is actually more legible. I'm not sure what that means to the states and agencies that already seem to have adopted it as their standard. Personally, I don't see how there's even an argument; it looks to me anyway to be vastly superior.

I'd have to see the two styles side-by-side!

kelistmac: Another awesome update ! I still have no words for your region view, your region looks very very realistic from that view.

Yeah, the birds-eye view always looks the most realistic out of any pictures.

Benedict: Great update as always. Like the highway signs a lot.

Thanks!

[SimCoug 5,977]

You gave my Hawks a run for their money last night... still can't believe the outcome.  

[Sabretooth78 808]

Seeing that I-680 also runs down the middle of the map I was just expecting something that would turn to the west within the limits of the map.  Nothing huge.  Of course there's nothing to say you can't keep that diagonal as a spur and build a new 5th leg to the interchange eventually.  Something like these for inspiration:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.6229786,-70.3320094,14z?hl=en

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.6102285,-71.3167579,14z?hl=en

 

(People in New England really like their "spurs" and "connectors" and prominently labeling them as such.)

 

As for the old standard "highway gothic" vs. clearview, here are a few comparison images (ignore the decrepit overall state of the HG sign):

 

 

 

I think the kerning on some of the new signs needs some work but overall I prefer it.

[packersfan 667]

Update 109 - Maidens Interchange - South I-55 / East I-80 Approach

Here is an update VERY similar to last week. Here is Maidens Interchange from the South Interdistrict Highway 55 and East Interdistrict Highway 80 approach.

I-55 / I-80 passing south under Maidens Road.

Exit 71 B.

I-55 / I-80 passing south under I-255 / I-680 bridge.

Exit 71A.

Ramp from East I-680 and South 41 / South I-255 to South I-55 / East I-80.

Advanced guide sign for Exit 70 - County Highway Q (Cardwell Road). This exit also serves as a route to District Highway 230 to the west

National Highway 41 joins I-80 and I-55.

You are here.

Now I need to get to work building up some more areas to explore! I also need to figure out how to get some traffic generators to work. None of the lots I have work anymore.

Check out the District of Wenzel Street Map to get an idea where we are. This is A NEW LINK as the old LINK was dead!

[TakemeThere 5,834]

Neat stuff making your own customs signs and I have to say your region view is easily one of the best I've ever seen, just so realistic.

[Benedict 3,119]

Great interchange!

[Charlie_Zane 963]

Great interchange! I still can't get over that satellite map, amazing!

[Yanzoxe 4]

A great city!!!

[packersfan 667]

Update 110 - City of North St. Paul, St. Mark High School, and Green Park

Here is a look at North St. Paul and Green Park. This update took a decent amount of prep work and innane details like terrain height on the borders. You'll see why...or hopefully you won't...until I tell you.

North St. Paul's town center viewed from an approach from the north.

North St. Paul

North St. Paul expanding into surrounding farmland.

South 32nd Street and West Hardee Avenue converging in North St. Paul.

St. Mark High School and Green Park

South end of the City of Martin

Most of the pictures from this update we taken from a massive mosaic I put together from three different city tiles. The border between the St. Mark and North St. Paul tiles is absolutely perfect and seamless. You should be able to see where the border is with the third tile though as I just put that together and missed the terrain height by a y=0.1 ... it really is that important. Can you find the seam? It isn't that line of houses.

You are here.

Hope you enjoyed this update. It is SO much fun to stick all the pictures together from bordering city tiles to get and see what the city ACTUALLY looks like. What do you think. Would you be interested in a tutorial on how to do something like this?

Check out the District of Wenzel Street Map to get an idea where we are. This is A NEW LINK as the old LINK was dead!

[NMUSpidey 3,956]

That is very impressive work.  You stuck two cities together to make this?  Awesome.  I'd almost rather not see the tutorial, because it is absolutely something that will remain beyond my abilities for forever and ever, but at the same time I'll bet it's fascinating to see.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

Yes please! A tutorial would be most helpful!

[packersfan 667]

Ugh, bad news.  My Brittany city tile has the prop pox bug.  And again failed to do regular back-ups.  So, I'll have to go back and redo a chunk of the city, hopefully not the WHOLE thing.  First, need to find the offending props or whatever.  Can you guys help me out and give me some tips on how to fix this issue?  It is very frustrating...hopefully, my other big tiles aren't affected.  I just opened the neighboring mostly complete Portland tiles and it looks fine.  So I need to nip this thing in the bud again.  3 years from the last time...sigh.

 

NUMSpidey, I actually put together THREE city tiles to make those pictures.  It isn't too hard, just need to focus on the details.

 

Ln X, I'll have a tutorial coming, but I have to clean up the Prop Pox thing now...sigh...not fun.

 

UPDATE: Well, I tested out the three large city tiles I feared for...and I fear that probably most of the large city tiles are corrupt with prop pox now...and they are all infected...the core of my city is clean, but Hawthorne, St. Paul, and Brittany (the development along Brittany River farthest west) are all corrupted with prop pox.  This is already disappointing in itself and the prospect of rebuilding three incredible tiles is depressing to say the least, but then add in the fact that I'm not sure if other large tiles are already corrupted in their relative infancy...I suppose I could test each one...

So...maybe Martin County will have to be abandoned where it stands...I mean I COULD work around the prop pox'd tiles (again, not knowing what other large tiles are clean, though)...or I could start fresh in a new location within the Nation of ...hmmm...I don't really have a name for the country where I want all my regions to coexist.

 

If I do start a new region, I don't want to start a new city journal.  I like the continuity, the history, and I want people to be able to see Martin County.

 

A new region will share the same highway signs (District Highways and County Highways being subject to whether or not this next region is in the District of Wenzel [i'm leaning this way, so that I don't have to change the journal name...but ya never know]).  There will still be insanely realistic looking satellite views and a detail street map.  Heck, this may even be a good thing.  Watching a new region develop from the start with all I know now about map making, picture editing, city laying.

It will be VERY sad to set aside Martin County.  Much of what I was developing OVER with city was stuff I had laid out about 4 1/2 years ago (one desktop and two laptops have passed away since).  This is the region I developed during my time in China.  It holds a lot of fond memories.  The new development and styles interacting with ideas and styles I had 4 years ago.

 

On the other hand, a fresh region sounds exciting, though I WISH I could have "completed" Martin County.  A fresh region offers me the chance to REALLY clean up my plug-ins, perhaps even creating plugin folder sets based on certain city tiles (don't need hi-rise office towers loading up while working in rural or low-density residential areas).

I'm also scared and worried I won't be able to get things right...This is mostly why I HATE having to rebuild lost areas because I want to rebuild the area exactly and it just never has the magic the second time around.

With all the trouble 4x4km tiles can have, I wonder if I shouldn't just exclusively use 2x2 and 1x1 in a new region.  Just too much hurt at this point.

Finally, I always wanted to show other cities in the District of Wenzel...or the nation...but couldn't really bring myself to start ANOTHER region...I really would have had no problem building this region forever and expanding it when needed.  Oh well...I can build a better downtown, better railroads, etc.

This can be good.  This is okay.  Right?  I'll be okay?  Yeah?  Oh this sucks!  Stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Labor to rebuild and struggle trying to recreate or leave Martin County and 4 1/2 years of beautiful work for new land?

 

Thanks for following.  I WILL BE BACK!

[aegian 182]

Your CJ, is one of my favorites. Shame to hear about the prop pox. 

 

But as you said, a new region brings new possibilities! And the idea to see you, make a region from scratch. And really to a builder like you, self improvement is as important and now you can try new stuff and play styles think on the possibilities!

 

Hang on packersfan.

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

If you want to built regions then 2 by 2 cites tiles are the way to go. A fully developed 4 by 4 tile will suffer prop pox if the game crashes during a save or the save file becomes corrupted. The size of the city tile file can increase by 2 or 3 times and this is when prop pox may happen.

[bakercity 270]

Packersfan, you do what you feel like what needs to be done. If you do a new region, but keep DoW theme, just remember you can always go back to the original to spice the new region up. For me, I would keep to the current theme, but do a little south, west or north of Martin area and bring in some real world names, but in your own design. That is what I usually do in order to get a city name. It is all up to you me good man. JKB

[packersfan 667]

Thanks.  Very little will change in regard to how I present the region, picture editing, having a killer street map (except this one will be complete [all in one style] from the start).  A few tasks stand between me and the first update in this new area of DoW.

First, I need to find the cause of the prop pox.  I found a resource key type issue between two overriding props in Xannepann's Seine River Embankment Set, but I was sort of rudely slapped down for even daring to suggest there could be a problem with that.  I admit I don't know all the ins and outs of the props and what problems can arise.  I just saw that the problem could be found by finding props that override and the resource key type goes from 1 or 0 to 4...this is where they think the memory leak that ultimately causes Prop Pox lies.  I suppose if a new region relies on only 2x2 or 1x1 tiles, I can avoid this problem and many others that tend to kill 4x4 tile play.

Second, find a great map to build on.  Yeah, I'm not great or patient enough to sculpt a region by hand.  It would be fun, but would take FAR longer than just grabbing a map.  The last map worked out great.  It was of a real life area (Mackay, Australia) but blown up significantly.  Look it up on Google Maps and compare to my region.

Third, I need to get the key plugins for my city.  NAM is the shoe-in, but there are a number of other mods that sort of tie your hands once you introduce them.  One is the Urban Housing Mod which takes all the Maxis $$ Residential Houses and modifies the lots to give them garages and driveways and move the house itself closer to the street...it also pares the population of each house to 5 or 6 people (realistic...but doesn't match up with the population of every other residential space in SimCity).  Another is the Work From Home Mod (or something like that).  This mod made it much easier to build sleepy suburbs with few to no job sites.  In real life people have very little problem travelling a few miles to work.  In SimCity, even with NAM, Sims still complain about work being too far.  This mod made it that Sims would work at each others' houses...essentially turning residential areas into split zoning.  I'm not sure if this mod turned my streets into ghost towns, though.

 

Fourth, I need to figure out what's wrong with the traffic generator lots.  I can't get them to work.  Obviously, starting from scratch with a clean plugin folder should solve the problem and hopefully root out the conflict.  Tired of taking pictures of downtowns, bustling neighborhoods, and city freeways devoid of all but one or two cars and trucks!

Fifth: Once, all that is set I can get to building my new area.  Again, I want to build "historically" though this requires other modding and lotting.  If I do it historically again, historic lots are a must.  I'll pick a spot along the river or coast and start a settlement and then build out farms a little haphazardly at first...then introduce the Northwest Ordinance (the thing that makes the MidWest and Western United States a big grid with streets and roads every 1/2 or 1 mile.

OVERALL, I regret not being able to "finish" Martin County.  As bakercity says though, I can always go back to Martin County (if I want to deal with the Prop Pox madness) and update that.  Martin County isn't GONE, not like Sessquenna, Rabourn, Cambellsport, or Fort Orangeport...it is just on the backburner now - hard to leave, but too painful to work on right now.

Updates will continue to be placed in THIS journal.  Or should I start a new thread.  No...I want to stay in this thread.  Keep Martin County alive for people to explore.  This is just an expansion, one I planned to do someday anyway...now my hand is just forced a little, of the District of Wenzel - or - even further out to a different District in the nation.  Still thinking about where to go

[SimCoug 5,977]

I understand your frustration with prop pox... I know there has been lots written about it, but I don't think there is any one consolidated 'bible' stating exactly what causes it.  Basically, there is a lot of good info and misleading info about it, and I really don't know what to believe.  All I know is, ever since I blocked the maxis lots, and pared down my dependencies to exactly what I need, I've never had a problem with prop pox.  Of course, that could change tomorrow... 

 

I think the idea  of starting new sounds pretty fun... there are so many new custom content options since you started the original District of Wenzel... I'd like to see what happens with a whole new start.  Just my 2 cents though.  

 

Good luck, whatever path you choose. 

[packersfan 667]

Yeah, I might just have to try blocking all Maxis lots...I just don't know the best course of action.  Avoid 4x4 tiles?  Be very careful?  Back up often?  I've always had issues with 4x4 tiles.  However, they offer the space to build interchanges and have rivers doing cool things.  I want to get everything right before I start this next area.

[Sabretooth78 808]

Sorry to hear about what happened - sounds like you're in quite the same boat I'm in.  Unlike you, however, I just can't bring myself to work with 2x2 tiles.  I guess I just haven't been burned enough yet!  Even so, I'd probably be more likely to fall back on just a Vanilla + NAM + terrain/water mods setup before going to smaller tiles.

 

For what my opinion is worth, I'm not sure anybody has a real good handle on prop pox other than a few situations which have been found to cause it.  Just the fact that these regions don't seem to have much in the way of shelf life due to plugins folders in constant flux can't be helping, either.

[iviaarten 534]

ow wow, really sad to hear that your map got bugged. it looks like you've spent years on it. I think I'm going to set up and auto backup for my region. I would hate to loose a few days of progress, can't imagine what this has to feel like for you.

[dfnva 34]

What exactly is prop pox?  Is that when the dreaded Maxis "box" appears in place of a prop?  Could it be remedied by downloading the correct prop?

[packersfan 667]

I should just slap a link up here to a thread about it over at SC4 Devotion, but I'll give you the short version and how I understand it.

Prop Pox is when you open up your city and you notice areas completely missing props (in my cities this was very noticeable as I was using the Urban Housing Mod which made all the $$ houses props!  Lots of blank lots.)  This isn't a graphically glitch, because even if you fiddle with the graphic settings, the props MAY come but won't stay once you save the game again.

The cause of this problem is still very much debated, but it seems that the problem will likely only strike a 4x4 tile because the manifests when the SC4 save file changes the way it writes the save file (usually around 13 MB) and then the file suddenly jumps 10 MB up to 23 MB.  If your plugins folder had an offensive trouble making prop file that causes this issues (again, only one file has ever been widely accepted as a problem, so it is hard to know the actual cause) in the folder WHEN you saved the city AT ANY time, that tile is infected and when the game changed the save structure at around 13 MB, the prop pox would then show up as the save file is corrupted and every save the file loses 200-400kb worth of prop information.

So, in my case, I discovered I had Prop Pox in my Downtown West tile back in April 2011.  I trashed that tile and restarted (after removing the offending file).  So THIS tile is clean...however, every other tile I saved while having this file in my plugins was infected (I didn't understand this at the time and I'm still a little confused about it as a couple of other tiles Downtown North and Martin South didn't have this prop pox problem despite most certainly having been saved during the infectious period).

Fast forward four years and Brittany tile shows prop pox.  I tested out Hawthorne and St. Paul and those both had Prop Pox, too, once they reached the 13 MB save file switching point.

The worst part about this infection is that you can't know if your tile has it until you've PUT A TON OF WORK INTO IT...to get to the 13 MB to 23 MB jump.

 

So even all my backups are entirely useless in this situation.

 

Don't stop making backups, because Prop Pox is a rare condition, I guess, and there are many other corruption problems that could cause you to lose a city tile.

I'm moving to 2x2 tiles just to avoid a slew of problems that seem to pop up more with 4x4 tiles.  They are also much easier to fill with development.  I tend to have problems getting those last little areas on one end or the other of my 4x4 tiles to develop...leaving gaps in my overall city.

Again, 2x2 is not a problem for me as I often create cross-tile mosaics.  My only concern is that I'll struggle to get enough population to get hi-rise development in my downtown areas...of course, there are SO many ploppables and cheats for someone like me who loves to play the game, but also make realistic-sized cities...even a 4x4 tile is only big enough to properly build a small real life city.

On to more exciting news.  I hope to have an update up tonight or tomorrow in the new area of DoW.  It will be historical.  I need help finding HISTORICAL lots, mmps, etc.  A small fort would be really nice for today!