BAT Request Thread

[rsc204 21,808]

2 minutes ago, will62russ said:

Is there a way to reward financially the good BATters for their creations?

Some will accept donations. But what you've described has been discussed recently here:

As you can see, not everyone (disclaimer: myself included) thinks charging is for the greater good.

[will62russ 76]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Some will accept donations. But what you've described has been discussed recently here:

As you can see, not everyone (disclaimer: myself included) thinks charging is for the greater good.

I'm a businessman who enjoys SC4 not as a game but as a fun hobby, similar to a painter who wants to create a piece of art on a blank canvas.  I use SC4 as a form of meditation after a long day at work.  I've been a member of Simtropolis since 2003.  I play SC4 far more than I feel the need to contribute discussions to a forum.  I admit I do not play SC4 continuously  due to life's expected or unexpected turns; but I always come back to SC4 because I have that need to create something.  Over the years I have donated to Simtropolis and I have purchased the STEX discs when released.  So I understand this setup we have cannot run on goodwill only.  The fact is I believe in the background there are many persons such as myself who enjoy SC4.  

I want SC4 and Simtropolis to continue and hopefully thrive as long as possible.  I've tried the other sim cities and skylines games and they just are not able to scratch that itch for me. Therefore, I'm going to put my business hat on and send you a proposal that I hope will help

1) Simtropolis with it funding needs to keep the platform running,

2) reward the BATters for their hard work and efforts,

3) maintain the current BATters we have and maybe return those that may have left because of a sense of feeling/being unappreciated, and

4) keep SC4/Simtropolis relevant for years to come for new players/BATters .  

Will you allow me the opportunity to come up with something that satisfy everyone's needs?  Maybe this will allow for feedback from others as to HOW this can work.   I will not focus on why or if we should do it.  That can be left for another discussion/forum.

What do you think?  Am I wasting my time?  Let me know.    

[metasmurf 705]

@will62russ Asking for money for something that has been free here and on other websites since 2003 in a community which has peaked in size a long time ago. It's not going to happen.

[rsc204 21,808]

11 hours ago, will62russ said:

What do you think?  Am I wasting my time?  Let me know.    

I think the point I made on the other thread is the same one I'd make in respect of your post. There are in effect, two models that can be used for distribution. The one we have now in the SC4 community is simply that, a community. I happen to think that community is worth a lot more, than getting a small cut in relation to selling my work. So if you offered me some money, I'd probably request that you donated it to one of the community sites instead. In a way, over the years, through donations and the DVDs sold, the community has always required funding. But it's run like a non-profit organisation, so those who do contribute are not financially motived. Such community has cultivated sites full of helpful tutorials, free content and fostered places where we try to help others to play and get the most out of the game.

Now if you take the other approach of charging for mods, I think a lot of these things are lost in the process. You've in effect replaced the non-profit community with a business. Everyone starts asking where is my cut, the whole thing changes when money is added into the equation. Even if you tried to keep money outside of the world of big business, it changes the state of play entirely. Suddenly, everything has a value, perhaps that tutorial doesn't get written, because someone could make more money if they used their time to make a new building to sell. Someone asks for help, "...sure I'll teach you, for a cut of the profits you'll make from my assistance."

I also have huge concerns about businesses like Steam trying to muscle in on modding. Unlike Simtropolis, SC4D and other sites over the years, Steam are very much a business, with cooperate interests, which could conflict with what's best for the community. Initially they were asking for a 70% cut too, which is ridiculous, but reflective of Steams monopolistic tendencies IMO.

Here's my response (from the linked thread) in respect of the idea of charging for mods:

Quote

Seriously though people, if you can just step back for one moment and stop thinking this is a witch-hunt against modders making some money, perhaps you can understand there is a bigger picture here.

Modders aren't going to make money, it's Paradox and Steam that will be siphoning off most of it. You know what, if the modder gets a fair price for their work, that's one thing. I mean when you work for a company, your pay is a small slice of the profits, no? No one I think really minds people getting paid. But I don't think that Paradox or Steam deserve such a high fee in return for simply selling someone's work.

@Ln X is also quite right in being worried about the longer term consequences for the community in this context. Of course no one has to pay for anything, we're not stupid. But if there is money to be made, once that becomes precedent, who's going to be giving their stuff away? So the free content will logically dry up, at the very least it will be seriously reduced. Leaving a game that costs a fortune to play, with most of the money not going to our beloved modders, but to Paradox and Steam. If you think about it, if the same sums of money were just put into a community fund to reward modders, you'd better accomplish the goal of rewarding creators. Without giving a huge slice to big corporations who are basically looking to monetise the hard work of modders.

Think about some of the best CJ's you've seen? Now ask yourself how much it would cost, should every mod have come with a price tag? Suddenly the whole community changes, between one of haves and have-nots. And the only way to join in, is to pay many hundred's of Euros for content. Sorry, but I don't think that's helpful to keeping interest in the game long-term.

So whilst I don't necessarily think you can't financially reward individuals/creators. I do not believe that turning a community that's been carefully nurtured for SC4, into a business would be positive in the long run. Had each download always had a cost attached to it, would SC4 still be relevant in 2016? For example, right now if you want to be "where it's at", you wouldn't be working on content for SC4, you'd likely have moved on. So in a world where modders are chasing paper, they will switch between games as soon as the last one is no longer as popular, because the money will dry up. Priorities change as the incentives do, whereas today most of the creations being uploaded, are made by passionate people creating and sharing, simply out of love for a game. But inevitably when you can get paid for mods, there will be those looking simply to profit from it. Again, I happen to think the way a community shares and comes together for the love of a game, is a better system that one where everyone gets paid.

I'll just finish up by adding a small spanner into the works here... did you know EA's EULA for SC4 prohibits charging officially for mods. The actual wording states that all works created with proprietary EA tools are owned by EA. Now Maxis and as a by-product EA, have mostly been supportive of the SC4 community. Many things in the EULA are simply not enforced. But I know enough about EA, that if serious sums of cash started to be made, they'd be looking to either stop it or take all the money somehow.

[will62russ 76]

I understand fully.  Regarding funding needed to keep Simtropolis running, how does one address that problem, which I believe will be of greater issue in years to come.  I hate to see Simtropolis and SC4 die a slow death.  

[matias93 7,535]

Wow, spiky issue, frankly I couldn't elaborate something better than MGB already did.

Now, back to the thread theme (almost), I'm asking for someone (maybe a lotter and not a batter) to make a bus deposit yard; something like this:

Just dreaming, it could be modular (@kingofsimcity's parking lots look like an splendid base for textures), and to use the user bus automatas as props, to achieve maximum realism. In terms of modding, it shouldn't be a bus stop, but it could offer I-M or CS$ jobs for the bus drivers and mechanics, jobs that aren't currently simulated (or they are? I'm not sure if bus stops are sims' workplaces).

Yes, I could give a try on this by myself, but the learning curve seems too steep from down here. There are many simpler relots to do before having those skills.

So I leave the idea here for you to think if you like it...

[will62russ 76]

On the same theme, of getting back to the business at hand, I've been a very good old man this year and I have a wish list that I believe is well-deserving.  For the next few days I will be dropping hints.  

[will62russ 76]

How about some old-fashion large bus terminals they use to build in the mid-1900s.  Has anyone been thru Victoria Bus Terminal?  Impressive! 

[interaxion 14]

1 hour ago, will62russ said:

On the same theme, of getting back to the business at hand, I've been a very good old man this year and I have a wish list that I believe is well-deserving.  For the next few days I will be dropping hints.  

This is Carnegie Hall -- one the the most premier concert halls in the world, located in New York City! Not getting what this has to do with bus terminals???

[matias93 7,535]

5 hours ago, interaxion said:

This is Carnegie Hall -- one the the most premier concert halls in the world, located in New York City! Not getting what this has to do with bus terminals???

I think it just appeared in the middle of two bus related requests...

[will62russ 76]

12 hours ago, matias93 said:

I think it just appeared in the middle of two bus related requests...

Exactly.  The two comments I submitted are unrelated.

[will62russ 76]

Here is another beautiful building that I'm not sure has been submitted before.  What a classic.

[will62russ 76]

Here is the classic Traction Bus Terminal out of Indianapolis.  When can I expect someone to make this for me?  :-)

 

[matias93 7,535]

9 hours ago, will62russ said:

Here is the classic Traction Bus Terminal out of Indianapolis.  When can I expect someone to make this for me?  :-)

(img1)

(img2)

I saw something with the same name and I don't know if it's related, but here it goes:

Oh, and about the requesting: here one just propose ideas and wishes some talented creator gets inspired by them ;D

[will62russ 76]

16 hours ago, matias93 said:

I saw something with the same name and I don't know if it's related, but here it goes:

Oh, and about the requesting: here one just propose ideas and wishes some talented creator gets inspired by them ;D

I saw that one, but I was looking for something more grander for a downtown area.

Well, here is a couple more I'll add to my wish list that I do not believe are currently available:

[will62russ 76]

Here are a few more historic buildings I would love to see on STEX.  I can provide descriptions of the buildings if requested.

[will62russ 76]

Do I need to contact "Make A Wish" to get any of my requests fulfilled by Christmas?   Well, here are a couple more wishes:

[will62russ 76]

I had a dream that these two buildings would be batted and found in my Christmas stockings:

[will62russ 76]

I know this will come as sad news for many, but the following two requests will be my last for a few days.  So without delay here you go:

[ericexp 54]

On 11/30/2016 at 6:48 PM, will62russ said:

Here is another beautiful building that I'm not sure has been submitted before.  What a classic.

I see two of your requests are from Detroit. Book tower pictured above and The Fisher Building. While book tower has not been discussed, the fisher building has been discussed as a possible BAT in the mipro thread. (mipro is a team of BATers who do Michigan BATs). Check them out!

[will62russ 76]

If anyone wants the names of locations of the buildings I have listed above, I will be happy to edit those pics with the added info upon request.

[Mewds45 132]

I would love to see the Joe Louis Arena and the Cobo Center in Detroit.

Turns out, I would love to see someone make all of this, if it is possible that is...

[rathefalcon 395]

19 hours ago, Mewds45 said:

I would love to see the Joe Louis Arena and the Cobo Center in Detroit.

You're in luck! The Joe Louis Arena has already been BATted:

 

[DavidDHetzel 1,816]

I'd like to humbly request "Y'all Mart" from the game "Deathroad to Canada"

 

[will62russ 76]

How about a downtown Target store on the ground floor of a classic skyscraper?

[nRVOUS 333]

The New Museum would be a great building to have in modern cities

[will62russ 76]

Thius is not a Bat Request, but a request as to what is the best way to learn how to do quality bats so my above BAT Requests can be realiaved.  Are there any online tutorials that won't take 4-years to complete?

[rsc204 21,808]

Learning to BAT and making decent models needn't take 4 years. I'd say 6-12 months of learning is about right going at it semi-frequently.

The main tool you need is the Building Architect Tool (BAT tool), which is a plugin for a program called gMax. gMax can still be downloaded from www.turbosquid.com, where you will also find as a separate download, a tutorial for gMax. Which just so happens to be one of the best technical tutorials I've ever read. It's very user friendly and should help get the basics across after a few hours. Much of it will be more helpful to learn how the aplication works, it's not so relivant for making SC4 models. If you get that far, next take a look at this tutorial, which walks you through making a building covering all the steps:

BATing does require some dedication, and atptitude for computers/applicaitions and experiance with making textures both will be a huge plus too.

[EvansRE4 796]

I would like to request a beautiful building from Chicago, known as the United Building or 77 West Wacker Drive

[Link 1]

[Link 2]

[Link 3]

[Yarahi 1,816]

@EvansRE4 Though it could probably be done more justice if someone experienced BAT'd it today - SimGoober based Blue Skyy Tower on that building