hkabat-forum-threads Amthaak BATS Thread

[Simbourgeois 139]

Great progress on this one 

Yes, I'm still in Singapore, though I can't send you any roof images. There're no big skyscrapers around and I'm not sure if there's a bar or restaurant on the top of the building itself. Sorry... But the roof looks great so far!

Can't wait to see this finished!!!

Yours sincerely,

Simbourgeois

Mayor of Belleville

[Amthaak 1,501]

Dear Simbourgeois Merci mon ami d'avoir répondu! 

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Really good stuff. Maybe try adding a bump-map to your water? I may be wrong, but I think that's what SF has done there.

[Francis90b 748]

Honestly i believe that the pool looks right as it is...really, have you ever seen a pool which isn't calm?

[SimFox 802]

Yep!

Bump (noise or cell) onto water to break up reflection (basically same principle as applying it to glass) another thing to get realism is to use caustics. Just on water, you can skip it on the glass (reflective)

[Amthaak 1,501]

SimFox and Cockatoo: well, I  was already suspected that the bump map is the solution but the result I got, till now is not very convincing, I am still testing it but it's quite long because the render time is quite important.  Anyway it will be great if you can show me an example of bump map I can use for that.

I am using that and I am not shure if it's correct.

BTW, Sim Fox what do you mean by caustics? Thanks for your help!

Hi Francesco: Yes and no, depend if the circulation pump for the filtration is on or off! Normally it's working during day time , but not during the night. So, the thing is to have something like that during daytime

and something more like the actual one during the night (with some lights of course). Anyway thanks a lot to participate to this Bat thread !

[simcity4fan12 13]

That BAT is looking great. One question though, about the last render pic you posted: It looks like I can see part of the building's facade, in the pool. Not likes it's reflecting it, but it looks like transclusent glass on a roof that shows the interior. I can see part of the facade going down through it. Like vertically, like not in a reflective way. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's just what it looks like to me.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Simcity4fan12: You are right that's why I'm working on that! I just start batting with max . Its fantastic! but this "monster" is hard to dominate...! Thanks for coming to support me  and congrats for your team!

[simcity4fan12 13]

Your welcome! I haven't started using MAX yet since my sketchup trial(on my other computer) isn't over yet and I got a few BATs in the sketchup process(on my main computer) still, so I can't fully help with MAX questions. Thanks for the compliment on my team! My other members are still working on their NYC stuff, so far, only 2 other members(besides me) uploaded anything with our team.

I know what you mean by "monster"...lol I'm working on a few of those myself.

The reflection on the glass is incredible! I can't wait to see the night lights. I think there should be some smaller roof details on the roof, maybe like some small satelites, airvents, and such. It looks a little plain up there, but the roof texture is perfect. Have you started on the base yet?

[kellydale2003 2,276]

@Amthaak - Your have some pretty great BATs there - keep it up!

[madhatter106 3,903]

Just looking through the last page of this thread makes me want to BAT something that has a pool...

Keep up the great work!

[grbac80 5]

Seems like you want  to make a perfect pool this time... Me like... 

[bixel 1,223]

wow just keep getting better and better

[SimFox 802]

Caustics is a term to describe how light interact with reflective or transparent surfaces. Hence Reflective or Refractive Caustics. The pattern you see in my pool or on that picture of the pool you've posted are Refractive Caustics. They appear because virtually any refractive material (transparent in other words) has density different than air and consequently light while passing through it changes it's direction slightly. In addition to that no surface it perfectly flat and, as consequence nothing is of absolutely same thickness. So the "bending" is unique for each point. The pattern you see on the bottom of swimming pool is in fact "elevation"map of the water. Same principles apply to the Reflective Caustics.

Unlike in real life surfaces generated in 3D are perfect as a result caustic would be totally flat and hence in case of refractive virtually invisible. Reflective caustic will produce absolutely perfect "projections" of reflecting surface. That's why you need to add some bump to the surface.

I would strongly recommend to use procedural maps for things like bumps. They are indefinite and non-repetitive. One thing to remember is that these maps should use world coordinate system and not objects one. Most practical of such maps is noise. It has enough settings to customize it to any use and produce nice and quite realistic "3d waive" pattern. But you can try out some other procedurals, like smoke, etc (don't remember other names as I'm on a Mac at the moment).

To actually get caustics during the render you would need to turn them on. By default they are off in Max. Additional difficulty/confusion comes from the fact that this would have to be done in several places. And if even in one of them Caustics haven't been turned on you'll not get them. To find those places you have to check with your MAX help, as it difference from version to version as it is a function of Mental Ray and that one is different in each and every Max version.

One point to remember - to turn caustics only on those object you want. this will save you some time on the calculation during render. This is important because in many version there is a "convenient" turn them on everything option... use it only as a last resort.

Well that seem to cover basics... As for the settings of the caustics proper... use Cone filter. It produces sharpest looking patterns and set samples to something like 15, for same reasons... But these are just general recommendations, as these, again may differ from version to version.

And last but not least... I strongly recommend to use only Arch&Design materials. You really don't need anything else. They are specifically written for Mental ray and work best and most often fastest with it.

When making pool and the likes I would recommend to model it as is. I mean pool isn't a hole, now is it? So model the bowl of the pool the way it is. And give water the volume, rather them making it out of a a plane. This volume doesn't need to me identical to tat of the pool bowl. But it shouldn't be smaller than it. Bigger is fine.

That's about it...

[Amthaak 1,501]

REPLIES!!!!

simcity4fan12:  Yes, I will put definitively more stuff on the roof . it is effectively a little too much "empty". For the base, on the back side, it quite finished, I have only to work on wome bushes, which I already did for the front side. For the front side , I also need to make an access road for the hotel intrance! and that's it...!

kellydale2003: Thanks for visiting and nice comments, I effectively need encouragements!

madhatter106: "Legend" madhatter106 thanks for your visit. I am glad to give you inspiration.... Seriously, I like your work and I will take seriously your (constructive) critics.

grbac80: Hi my friend, I though that you didn't like anymore my work! Glad you come back to support me!

Bixel: Yep, I'll only release it when you'll say "it's Perfect"!

And Last one but not least!

SimFox: Waow! Thanks a lot, I didn't understand everything but most of it. Effectively I think you cover the basics  ( and for the time being , I need to "digerate" them before to go further). I will strongly follow your advice and check my Max Help!

I intuitively reach your advice about Arch&Design materials, the difficulty for me actually is to change my way of thinking , I mean "forget" Gmax for Max...!

Here is where I am (before reading SimFox 's brilliant lecture)

[Amthaak 1,501]

Here a closer pic of the swimming pool, made according to SF recommandation i.e. a "real pool" full of (fresh) water!

"...I would recommend to model it as is. I mean pool isn't a hole, now is it? So model the bowl of the pool the way it is. And give water the volume, rather them making it out of a a plane..." So, I did it... and the windows reflection is not any more "residual" windows seen by transparancy (sic!) Thanks again SF, you made my day!

[simcity4fan12 13]

The texture on the pool looks much better! I'm interested in what it will look like at night.

[kellydale2003 2,276]

I don't think all caustics need opacity Simfox (quote autovino on that).

What is the height of this Amthaak?

And are there TWO pools on opposing sides of the tower?

@SimFox - Oh I have to ask you how do you make those textures? The brown tiles ones - If you say 3DS Max...How?

And are there TWO pools on opposing sides of the tower?

[Amthaak 1,501]

Originally posted by: kellydale2003

IWhat is the height of this Amthaak?

quote>

Sorry, I am not very sure to understand yr question, what do you mean by "this"? are you talking about SimFox 's pool/Bat?

Concerning my Bat, there is only one pool on the back side of the building, the pool is facing the river...!

Hereafter is the Front side!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

It's coming along great!

[Cockatoo 2,256]

This is just beautiful Amthaak, I really admire your work. You're improving with Max at an epic rate.

Kellydale, really strange post. What do you mean 'what is the height of this?'...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Cockatoo: Dear friend , you are the one who really improve with Max at an epic rate. Your last realesed is the proof of evidence. Thank you very much for your comment. My improving is mainly due to SF who is a gold mine of informations, advices and very pertinent/relevant critics! I have no choice, on one hand your extraordinary progress since you start Max pushing me to work and SF who , with patience, drives me in the Max Maze. But now, I CAN SEE THE LIGHT! So, now I start to think about nighlights, any Tips?

Yep, I don't understand really the kelly's question, "this" can be so many things...???

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Originally posted by: AmthaakSo, now I start to think about nighlights, any Tips?quote>

Just the regular stuff: Think about a plausible floor plan. This is a hotel, right? So I guess that either a suite is lit or it isn't. Depending on how many windows one hotel suite spans, you should - quite logically - light up all two or three or (however many they are) of them, or leave them all dark. Not just a random pattern.

In an office building with large open spaces, you'd typically see longer ribbons of windows that are all lit, and in a residential tower you'd probably see pretty much the same pattern as in a hotel.

Another aspect many talented BATters tend to overlook is that when windows are located near a corner, there's probably one and the same room behind them. Hence, if the window facing the front is lit, the window right behind the corner, which belongs to the same room, should be lit as well.

I'd also add some spotlights to illuminate the pool terrace, and maybe a light above the door to the topmost roof.

Speaking of the roof, I think the texture could use a tad more dirt around the edges.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi T Wrecks: Thanks a lot, I 'll follow yr advice, In fact, your "Tai-Pan Terrace" (BTW, I love it...) is a perfect demonstration of what you say. I 'll appreciate if you have "technical" Tips as I never made nightlights with Max...!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hey, remember that I didn't make that BAT! The person to give credit to is Bixel. I nagged him while he was BATting Chelsea Court, because I always like to see standalone towers that aren't as huge as many of his projects. And since I had been modding, lotting and documenting his stuff for quite a while, he sent me that BAT and allowed me to do what I pleased with it and upload it under my name.

Believe it or not, I've never touched the BAT myself, and a textureless cube would be beyond my skills. Hence, I'm afraid I won't be able to provide much technical advice. All I know is from discussions I followed and observations I made, and as such very rudimentary and general. My actual work starts when the rendering of the final BAT is finished. That's an area where I have hands-on experience - the BAT isn't (or 3dsmax, for that matter).

[Amthaak 1,501]

All right, very sorry for my "short cut", i really didn't want to mean that you did something with Bixel's work without having his authorization for modding and lotting his Bat. Even if I have some diffilculties to type (2 fingers) and write in English (that the reason for the "short cut"), your explaination in this Lot description is perfectly clear and let no doubt at all about your moral honesty, and in an other hand don't reduce the fantastic work you did with this Bat. I am just looking at your "CV" ("2007 BAT of the year") VERY IMPRESSIVE my friend and looking at your entire work and dedication it's certainly not a hasard...!

I really hope that you will have time to come visiting my Bat thread to comment my work and give me advises, besides the age and experience, I am still learning...!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hey, no problem - I didn't understand your comment as an accusation against me.  I just had the impression that you thought I had made the BAT myself, which was not the case.

As for that "BAT of the Year", that was the Trixie for Lippo Centre v2.0 - a spectacular BAT by paulvmontfort. I merely modded and lotted the final result. Actually, I was quite surprised to be awarded as well.

Oh, and I think those Trixies are a bit deceiving - people award them with best intentions, no doubt about that. However, sometimes someone is forgotten, or two (or even more) would have deserved one, but only one can get it. Or the ST users cannot really judge the achievement that lies behind something, because they don't know all the geek stuff. So they might vote for something that looks impressive, and at the same time overlook something that is impressive.

As a consequence, some of the Trixies in that list are very nice gestures, but a bit exaggerated, I think. You see what people are worth if you look at what they do and what they contribute. In my opinion, that's something you cannot really measure. So don't go by the Trixies... good advice is good advice, no matter who gives it. 

And now I think we could go back to the actual topic of this thread - after all, this is your place to show off your creations. 

[Amthaak 1,501]

Yep, you are completely right about the "good advice...". Ok, so lets go back to nitelites...! Everybody (some people in fact...) are waiting for that and I don't want to disappoint them!

[simcity4fan12 13]

Whoa! I just saw the last picture and it looks amazing! I can't wait to see it at night as well.

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi, sorry for late update , but I had pb with my internet connection! I just realised that before starting nighlights, I should finished the "day Bat", Here are few pics , the "improvements" concerned essentially the texturing (Walls and roof) and the roof junk which is not completed. I still have to modelize the first Chineese character . If somebody know how to right it , he is super welcome!