Psander5's BATs

[psander5 195]

Glenni : Thanks 9

Mightygoose : Doubt it to be honest.  HD makes BATs look great, but I don't think they're suitable for release.  I don't want to contribute to a trend to turn the game HD.  Plus, if HD became the norm you'd have to render each BAT 4 times; one SD Maxis night, one SD Darknite, one HD Maxis night and one HD Darknite.  Then there's the zoom 5 degradation issue that I'm never happy with on HD buildings.  HD does look good though

Update - New BAT

Remember this?...

...Here's the beginnings of another one that's not too dissimilar:  

By some luck, the real life building is approximately 32m x 24m and has an 8m building on the side (The white plane is its footprint) so I didn't have to do any real proportion tinkering on the street facing walls.  At the minute everything is scaled and proportioned according to the real world... well, approximately anyway.  I didn't take my tape measure to Sheffield, I followed Jasoncw's method as shown in his blog   I'll have to see if it fits in game though.  One of the two buildings is scaled wrongly if you compare them.  

It's a mixed use commercial/residential building.  The top two floors are (or were when I was at uni) student accommodation, whilst the ground floor and first floor was a McDonalds.  I'm not sure what it is these days though.  The building is quite scuzzy in real life... and it won't be pristine in my version.  It's called Moorhead House and is on Furnival Gate in Sheffield, South Yorkshire. 

It's a pretty simple building even compared to my USC above, so the modeling shouldn't take all that long to do.  This time though I'm planning to make a series of similar BATs from that area of Sheffield, and will form part of a wider plan of mine to diversify the 'high streets and side streets'^TM of our SimCity centres.

I might need some help with the roof junk on this BAT though...

I don't know what half of that jumbled mess is.  Since there was once a McDonalds in the building though I guess it must be kitchen related.  not so much roof junk as mini roof jungle!  

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

I think a scrap collector lives on the roof of that building O_o

I fully endorse your Campaign of the Mundane.

[Jack_wilds 550]

hello psander5,

I really like the usc-nottingham cafe as I'm guilty of using too much... its the sort of bat/place that I see myself frequenting for coffee and nut bread and banking chores...

The new corner structure looks promising... sort of place I'd put my consulting firm

Jack

[mightygoose 92]

its a shame you are not on board with HD.... your buildings are phenomenal..... great work nevertheless

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Beautiful work on that small bat.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Which setback do you plan for your W2W stuff, if I may ask? 1 pavement tile or 2 tiles?

[psander5 195]

SimHoTToDDy:  Maybe... not much room for a bed though

Jack_wilds: Thanks.  You might change your mind about putting a company in this building though.  It's not going to be as clean as the all white Max render suggests

mightygoose: Thanks. My first ever release was in HD, but I quickly realised that I don't really zoom in to level 6, so for purely selfish reasons It's not necessary.  

Aaron Graham: Thanks.

TWrecks: I'm  not sure yet.  Probably whatever JBSimio used on his Small Town USA series since I use those a lot as fillers in my cities.  That's unless there's a different, agreed standard for these types of buildings?  FYI on this particular building the overhang would be flush with the setback, not the shop frontage. 

I've modeled the 8m building now, but it's not worth showing yet.  It's pretty basic.  I'll add some more detail around the back and maybe start texturing for the next update.  

[Vlasky 1,803]

New building looks great/ Please don't trash it with textures. I love the shape of it and its vibe! Pretty please with the cherry on top!

and consider exporting it in HD

[T Wrecks 10,209]

JBSimio used 2 tiles, as did many European W2W BATters. I hardly play Euro style these days, that's why I'm not sure, but of course some BATters used 1 tile. 2 tiles would be fine with me, but of course thatt's just one opinion/preference among many. Personally, I use 2 tiles for European stuff and 1 tile for American buildings, which seems to work in most cases. IIRC, some exceptions are JBSimio and spa, who both use 2 tiles for American buildings.

In most cases, it doesn't matter that much, anyway. One minute in the LE (maybe one more in the reade to make the building box smaller than the actual BAT in case the LODs extend too far), and you're done. Corner buildings are the only exception. If you go from 2 tiles to 1 tile, you'll end up with narrow gaps on both sides, and going back from 1 tile to 2 tiles is not possible.

[psander5 195]

Thanks for the pointers.  It helps to get something like this sorted straight away, I think, if I'm going to commit to my intention to make lots and lots of lots of buildings like this one. I think I'll go for  2 tiles then.  By the sound of it that is the most common choice for things like this.  I've forgotten to factor in the setback though!  I didn't think about the corner lot problem.  I guess I'll have to do some squashing.  I thought it was just a lot editor decision... but of course that's only for single road facing buildings

@Vlasky: I hope it won't be trashing it!  Grime can be tasty!  It's not such a dirty building... it's just not very clean or well maintained.  

Here it is on Google Street View in case you want a preview of the kind of thing I mean.  If you take a walk around the area you'll see a few more buildings I've earmarked for the BATing treatment... the TK Maxx next door for instance. 

EDIT: I scaled it down 90% uniformly to comply with the 2 tile (3.2m) setback and superimposed it on to an old screenshot with some other buildings with the same setback....

The ground floor looks ok but the upper floors might be too short now.  They were 3m (+33%), which is about right for the building, but since I scaled it for the setback they've shrunk to 2.7m, which is pushing it.  British buildings of this age and type do tend have quite low ceilings but this might be too much.  I can try scaling up the upper floors to make them 3m again if the general opinion is that it's too squashed at the minute...

What do you people think? 

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

What do you mean, "you people?"

I would at least shoot for 3m. After all, 4m is the standard I usually go by for residential and commercial. If I wanted to go "short" I'd make it 3.5m, but I guess it all depends how it fits in with the buildings you are using there.

[Vlasky 1,803]

Well now, that I've seen it on RL pic, I say go ahead, it looks good anyway.

I have 2 suggestions: 1st make the setback 1m because most of w2w building are with 1m setback. + BSP who have major w2w projects and have done most of w2w's on STEX are doing them with 1m setback.

2nd although this type of buildings tend to have lower ceilings, 2.7 is a too mucha Do it 3.5

*** EDIT ***

Is building from across the Furnival Gate it's twin? Do you have some plans with it? Because it seems that tweaking around what you have now would result in to similar but different building (since it's twin is 2x corner building)?

[psander5 195]

SimHoTToDDy:  All people of every kind... except me

Vlasky: Now you've confused me! I'm not sure again whether to go for 1 tile or 2 tiles.  At the moment, I'll continue with 2.  I may change my mind though if I test it next to some other buildings.  It will take a 5% scaling with no real issues so I don't have to decide just yet.  The building across the road has virtually the same facade yes, but its configuration is quite a lot different.  The main problem is that it has roads on 3 sides.  Because SimCity's streets are 16m wide it doesn't really suit it to have a 2x2 lot facing 3 roads.  I did look at that building but it would take a lot of reinvention to get it to work.  It might as well be a completely different building all together.  

Here it is with some new scaling:

First I added 0.5m to each of the three upper floors, making them 3.5m.  Then I downscaled the whole model to fit onto a lot with a 2 tile setback, which made the floor heights 3.15m.  It's a compromise between in-game and true to life proportions.  If I make the floors any higher than this it would start to ruin the building's proportions.  It fits in reasonably well with the rest of the buildings in this picture though so I'm happy enough.  

It would be nice if it were possible to just make things the way they are rather than have to scratch heads to get them to fit onto 16m squares and relate to the gigantic sims. 

[Gn_leugim 853]

looking very good

[Jack_wilds 550]

popping to chime in a thought or two...

I think it could be a little taller but not shorter as it being 4-story structure comparing it to the 4 story Scottish Inn, it appears too short but the height is tweak up but not too much...

as for set back I like this setback best as it seems to fit with JBSimio, SPA, and other similar w2w... however preferred setback opion varies as does the acceptable fudge window for scale...

but fudging to height 115-135% consult with JB, SPA, and your favorite batter for best window of tolerance to build within...

the over all concept looks promising

Jack

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The key to that is to only pick buildings which fit conveniently on SC4 tiles in the first place.

But anyway, I measured the building in Google Earth, and it fits quite well on a 2x2. Actually, it's smaller than a 2x2 (about 30x27 meters), if anything you'd have to scale it up.

I wouldn't mind it if were a 3 sided buildings, since I actually play with some blocks being 2 tiles wide, and a few of my own BATs fit on blocks that size. But I think I'm in the minority.

edit:  Sorry, I missed your post about the project on the 10th.  This thread is moving fast!

[madhatter106 3,903]

Originally posted by: psander5My first ever release was in HD, but I quickly realised that I don't really zoom in to level 6, so for purely selfish reasons It's not necessary. quote>

I couldn't have put it better myself.  I couldn't remember to zoom in to level 6 even if I did download an HD BAT.  Plus the extra space it takes up in the plugins folder is another reason (for me, mind you) not to do it.  And who really spends that much time in zoom 6 anyways?  For me, the return is not worth the effort....

The new BAT looks smashing, by the way.  I'd love to see where you go with the textures, and especially the roof junk...

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Originally posted by: madhatter106

Originally posted by: psander5My first ever release was in HD, but I quickly realised that I don't really zoom in to level 6, so for purely selfish reasons It's not necessary. quote>

I couldn't have put it better myself.  I couldn't remember to zoom in to level 6 even if I did download an HD BAT.  Plus the extra space it takes up in the plugins folder is another reason (for me, mind you) not to do it.  And who really spends that much time in zoom 6 anyways?  For me, the return is not worth the effort....

quote>

These are some of the things people need to think about before asking for HD things

Floor heights look better by the way.

[JayStimson 211]

Looks like the makings of a really nice corner building. Realistic small or medium corner buildings add so much to the game.

As far as height scaling goes, it really depends on the height of the building. For short to medium, I've found 3.5 meters works well. For tall and very tall, I believe it drops to 3 meters. As I read once, nothing beats putting it in game next to buildings you like that are of the same genre and see if it looks to scale. Adjust accordingly.

Keep up the good work.

[artist 4]

I'm sure it's going to look great once it's done. The scaling looks proper.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I also like the scale!

As for the setback, just stick with 2 tiles. BSP stuff is mostly old US style, so it's a different story. European stuff is predominantly 2 tiles, and the thing with corner buildings is that you can't really please everybody, unless you do it like sparkythepenguin (boy, do I miss him!) did with some of his BATs, for example Jackson Tower, and render two versions!

The good news is that while a straight row with wildly mixed setbacks looks stupid, an occasional corner building that sticks out a bit less (or a bit further) doesn't ruin the overall impression so much.

[psander5 195]

Gn_leugim: Thanks

Jack_wilds: Thanks.  I'm sticking with the current height now as any more stretching would ruin the proportions.  It's scaled 133% vertically too to make up for the squashing.  That's my own personal standard.

Jasoncw: I do try to pick buildings that fit.  It's tricky though. Plus, in Britain we don't really have many grids.  Our roads are more like a bowl of spaghetti dropped on the floor, so there's always some squeezing and stretching needed to make buildings fit.  Even this one isn't 90 degrees on the corner.  It's unusual for me to move so fast.  I'm really quite sluggish.  No doubt I'll slow down as this one moves into the final stages and I inevitably start to lose interest

madhatter106: Thanks.  The roof junk will be tricky.  I can't make any sense of that tangled mess at the minute.

SimHoTToDDy: Thanks.  

JayStimson: Thanks.  I think I'm settled on scale now.  

artist: Thanks

T Wrecks: Thanks. I think I will stick to 2 tiles then.  It looks right in with the buildings I personally use most often.  

This post was mainly to do a few replies, but I might as well post where I'm up to while I'm here...

The brick texture is a placeholder.  I'm using it to set up the UVW maps.  It'll be tinkered with and dirtied up eventually. The smaller buildings walls will be different to the main building. 

The side building is modeled now.  It's based on the real life one, but there's no street view as its a pedestrian zone so I was stuck with the low res bing shots.  I presume the middle row of small windows must be a set of false windows. 

As you can see I've started populating the roofs with junk.  I'm not confident it will look right with just lots of disparate object clumped together in a random way.  The original stuff must have some sort of structure or relationship, but I can't figure it out.  I might eventually just tone it down to the usual sort of stuff.  In real life this junk related to a McDonalds, but it's since been changed into an ordinary shop so I presume most of it will be gone by now. 

[Gn_leugim 853]

well, thou they are "disparate object clumped together in a random way", they actually look good as they are

[psander5 195]

Gn_leugim: Thanks.  We'll see.  If I can't get it to work as a jungle I'll just re-arrange those ones into a realistic config.

Update

Textures are going on...

I've done most of the big surfaces, apart from the small building's facade.  All the windows and doors are still untextured, and the flashing is currently just a flat colour.    The main facade should look a bit less grey once the window frames and glass get textured.  As far as modeling goes I've got more roof junk to add, and a few things like drainpipes around the back. 

Here it is in game as before...

[Amthaak 1,501]

Very good update! It's getting better, and better!

[Jack_wilds 550]

...wow its starting to look really cool -neat even...

[mntoes 270]

Looking good. I like the choice of building and built so quickly too.

[Spike345 20]

I love all your corner buildings, I think you should keep making them!

[io_bg 249]

Nice work! I will certainly download this when you upload it in the STEX

[psander5 195]

Amthaak: Thanks!

Jack_wilds: Thanks!

mntoes: Thanks.  Unusually quickly for me, but I've had the luxury of lots of free time on this one  

spike345: Thanks.  I will keep making them, but I'll be doing some non-corner buildings too

io_bg: Thanks! 

Update - Day View Finished (?)

I think I'm satisfied with it now.  I added one big chunk of junk on the lower roof, and that together with the stuff that was already there shifted around a little makes it resemble the real life building's roof.  I have no idea what any of that stuff is supposed to do however.  If there are any roof junk experts out there then some of these units might look rediculous, but to my untrained eye it looks plausible as real machinery! 

The ground plane is there just for scaling.  I don't plan to render it with the model.

The glass is all reflective.  I was going to reflect a realistic ground plane with a road passing the front side, but because the windows are only small, and the building is quite short it just made the windows look uniformly dark.  I changed the reflect plane to a more general screen shot.  It's not too realistic, but I think it gives the impression that the windows might be reflective.

As before...