Psander5's BATs

[Follarch 326]

Always did enjoy that corner store paul. Great work on it, you certainly did put much work and detail into something so small, which i really can appreciate. Sometimes, small things are the best.

[SimFox 802]

Originally posted by: spa

Never noticed your thread before. I have to say I'm quite impressed with this new corner building. It was fun flipping down through the page and seeing all the different versions. It really progressed nicely and turned out a winner in the end and that's not easy to do for a relatively new batter, especially when dealing with a "whitish" type texture (they're really hard to do). I'll have to pay more attention when you start your next project.quote>

Problem with "whitish" textures is not their "whitishness" but  bad lighting of the classic rig. Use LetThereBeLight and you'll never have problem again

[Chris M 406]

Wow, how did I miss this thread? You are very talented for someone who has just begun with the BAT! I love your style and the quality you've put into this new building. I'll definitely be watching for more of your work and projects!!! The scary thing is, you're only going to get better. I think we have another Jasoncw or nofunk in the works here. Your style is very similar and I certainly like that.

[psander5 197]

I'm back!  

I've been on a complete sabbatical from SimCity for the last few weeks, due mainly to the release of Football Manager 2010, but I'm coming back to the community and back to the BAT.  

I wanted to get back into things by tying up a loose end.  If you check the first post of this thread you'll see that I once tried to make Skylon from the Festival of Britain, 1951.  I plan to remake this from scratch now that I know what I'm doing a bit more.  Before that though I decided to have a go at its companion piece, the Dome of Discovery pavilion:

Skylon & the Dome of Discovery:

The Dome:

The dome was used as an exhibition space during the festival, but for anyone worried about ingame functionality, its big enough to have been converted into a small arena that might have been capable of hosting ice hockey/basketball and concerts seating at a guess, around 6-8000 spectators. 

I've wanted to make these for ages.  I don't know why exactly.  I guess I just feel sorry that they were demolished so soon after the festival... a travesty led by Winston Churchill by all accounts.  Skylon in particular would still look great in the London Skyline.  The dome would perhaps look more dated if it were still standing today.  It deserves to be better remembered though.  At the time it was the largest dome in the world.

The problem with trying to model the dome is that when rendered in the SimCity perspective almost all of the detail of the structure disappears:

I've gone ahead and modelled the rest of the structure anyway, but It seems pointless to put too much effort into the details of it.

There are precious few photographs of the dome on the internet, and virtually none of them are in colour, but I know that the structure is largely concrete with an aluminium roof.  The only part of my model with a texture is the roof, and that's only a preliminary one.  I'm playing with some of the options to see if I can represent a shiny aluminium roof constructed using 1951 technology - I know it's not there yet.

What do people think?  Is it worth pursuing as a release-able BAT, or should I treat it more as a personal folly?   

[Delecto 941]

Hey, nice to see you back! Your render of the dome is already interesting, and I'll use it with great pleasure in the game!

DEL!

[psander5 197]

 Delecto: Thanks very much!

I've done a bit more on the dome.  I've had to guess a lot of the details and colours as I said in my last post.  I decided not to attempt to recreate the surrounding plaza.  There just aren't enough reference images, plus I suspect that the area has differing elevations, so instead I decided to make something from scratch. 

The dome's pretty much finished as far as modelling goes.  I just need to pay some attention to the Front entrance, then I need to improve and tweak the textures to fit simcity.  This one's been quite enjoyable so far! 

[alj 38]

That is one interesting project. The roof looks impressive. It must have been a pain to puzzle all those differently shaded aluminium pieces togehter. With regard to usability in-game I see your point. In SC4 perspective it looks like a giant UFO. At the least it would be pretty useful for SciFi CJ´s. But the surrounding plaza sketch in your last picture gives the dome the look and feel of an indoor arena. Conclusion: it would be great if you finished this project and upload it. Thanks in advance.

[Francis90b 748]

Well, that's an interesting project indeed !

Just be sure of checking the reflections of the metal on the lower side of the dome (i'm referring to the first pic of your last post).

Good luck!

[SimFox 802]

It's brilliant, like all you work. There is a little to obvious "footprint" of a Photoshop brush on the roof texture, may be it could be muted somewhat.

Another thing to consider is the whole shadow issue. The problem stems from the fact that game "lighting" doesn't coincide with one used in BAT.

It becomes an issue (well an obvious issue) only7 when you have a shadow continued from the flat horizontal surface to the ground. SO here may be extending the "base" a bit more could resolve this...

[Jasoncw 11,841]

Oh yeah, you should totally upload it!

It's sort of a special purpose item, but if anyone is doing any kinds of worlds fairs, or festivals, or olympics, or if they simply want some kind of arena venue or convention center, it will be useful, and you're certainly doing a good job on it. And maybe some locals will either recognize and appreciate it, or they'll learn about it for the first time.

Maybe you should try giving the roof material a bump map to help define the panels?

[psander5 197]

alj: Thanks.  The building in real life was, I'm sure influenced by the 'visions of the future' of the 1950's.  The resemblance to a UFO was probably intentional.  Amongst all the other London buildings at the time it would have looked very much like a UFO had just landed on the South Bank filled with wonderful knowledge science and technology.

Francis90b: Thanks.  The roof texture is something I haven't  finished with yet.  I was trying to make it look like warped aluminium, but I guess it's not there yet.

SimFox: Thanks very much.  See above about the roof.  I have lots more experimenting to do before it's done.  I think I understand what you mean about the shadow.  The shadow should fit entirely within the lot space so I'll extend the BATed plaza somehow.

Jasoncw: Thanks.  I'm sure it will find many uses in the SimCity world.  There are lots of creative people around.  Buildings always get appropriated to new uses.  I do it myself often!   I'm not sure how many locals will recognise it.  It's a bit of a forgotten piece of heritage! It was only there for about 6 months I think.  The London Eye now occupies its place (well, near enough), so It's been easily 'out blinged' by most successive London landmarks.

I tried to add a bump map to the roof at one stage.  For some reason it didn't work, but I didn't try very hard.  I will try again. 

[mntoes 271]

Good work indeed. The last picture reminds me of a crab's shell for some reason...lol

[psander5 197]

Thanks. A crab shell? I didn't see that one coming!  It must have come in sideways!  

Just a quick update to show where I am with the roof texture.  I must have preview rendered this about 70 times trying different things!  I can't see straight any more! 

I've toned down the texture of glossiness map and added a cloudy sky bitmap to it.  I also added a slight bump map to pick out the panels.  Its better than before I think, but I can't see how I can improve it.  I keep going round in circles changing the brightness, glossiness, definition etc in different combinations.  

[spa 970]

Originally posted by: SimFox

Originally posted by: spa

Never noticed your thread before. I have to say I'm quite impressed with this new corner building. It was fun flipping down through the page and seeing all the different versions. It really progressed nicely and turned out a winner in the end and that's not easy to do for a relatively new batter, especially when dealing with a "whitish" type texture (they're really hard to do). I'll have to pay more attention when you start your next project.quote>

Problem with "whitish" textures is not their "whitishness" but  bad lighting of the classic rig. Use LetThereBeLight and you'll never have problem again

quote>

Ahh but if you're still using gmax like me, those fancy 3ds options just aren't on

[SimFox 802]

spa:

well, that's true, but he uses the MAX, though

Pasander:

I think it is marked improvement. What I would do is to get rid of the bump. It doesn't work well at SC4 scale. Since it is a render time effect it requires about 2 pix to happen. In terms of SC4 those translates into about 30-40 cm. If you look at the "seams" at the roof there are same thickness as the door frames below. If possible just replace bump seams with modeled ones about 5-7 cm wide and make them just slightly darker. With good AA it should work.

As for the mixed in sky, I think may be reducing just a bit the Cyan component of it. plus putting the "blue spot" to opposite of the sun. That place of the roof should be whitest. You can also link the UVW modifier gismo to the Lighting rig handler in the scene. This way the "blue spot" will always stay opposite to the Rig sun.

Another thing about roof is guard rail/fencing I think it need more of the vertical bits... May be one every 1 - 1,5 meters.

And last thing the saturation of the elements of the crab-s underbelly. Right now it is way to high which result is color bleed that is more of the color flood scale.

those are small things I wouldn't normally mention as in most cases there will be much bigger fishes to fry, so big that I wouldn't normally know where to start... but your work is always of the finest quality

[psander5 197]

SimFox:  Thanks for the kind words.  

Some of the things you suggested are a little beyond me at this stage in my BATing journey, and delving too deep too soon might over complicate things for me I fear.  

Having said that though I understand all of the issues you pointed out, and have taken steps to improve them. 

I've removed the bump from the roof, but it would be a major operation to model the lines.  It would mean remaking the texture to match the new pattern - the pattern on the current texture is pretty random and isn't linked to the geometry.  It would mean going through more tedium than I want at this point.

I reduced the cyan of the sky map on the roof.  The stuff about lighting rigs is where I hit the wall though.  I know very little about stuff like that at this stage.  I'm fairly happy with letting it slide at this point, unless its really simple to get the hang of.  The way I've built the texture might be a problem though.  The sky is a specular and glossiness map, not a reflection.  

I think I understand what you mean about the colour bleed.  Its the orange discolouration of the floor right?  I couldn't completely get rid of the colour bleed, but by desaturating the walls, I managed to tone it down.  With textures applied to the ground I don't think its as much of a problem.  Let me know if your eye sees it differently, or I got the wrong end of the stick.

Here's where I'm up to:

Zoom 4 preview.  Click for the same view in zoom 5:

 

[SimFox 802]

I think it looks smashing!

May be the plaza texture could be reworked, now it is way to candy colored and repetitive.

As for the bleed, you definitely shouldn't get reed of it altogether as it is one thing that to a great degree insures realism of the look, but if simply should be moderated to the, again, realistic levels. And I'd say it has been done.

[Utvaw 45]

I like this structure and look forward to using it as a convention center in some of my cities. I do think the pink coloring of the tile is a little off putting but I love the design of the plaza itself.

I am also very interested to see what sort of lighting this baby will have.

[Delecto 941]

Looks good,

I agree with SimFox, the texture of the plaza is a bit repetitive.

Good luck___DEL!

[psander5 197]

Simfox: Thanks. I agree with you on the plaza texture.  I've taken steps to change it. 

 

Utvaw: Thanks, I'm glad you like it, and I hope you enjoy it when it's done.  I have no plan for the night lighting yet, so I'm equally intrigued as to how it might be done

 

Delecto: Thanks.  I agree too

 

 

It doesn't look like much has changed since my last update... because it hasn't!  Christmas and New Year got in the way, then my personal attitude towards this building began to stagnate!  I have millions of projects on my to do list, but I want to finish this first.  That means its beginning to transform itself into a chore! 

 

 

Click for full resolution




I made the base texture far bigger.  It now only repeats around the centre of the circle, in 90 degrees.  On close inspection though, patches are repeated.  I tried to chop and jumble it up as much as possible.  The fact that each brick is so small means it sort of blends into something with little definition.  I toned down the pinkness.  Its still pink of course, bun now its more like overcooked poached salmon than the previous version.  

Another reason for this update is to ask a question about this:



This was a test export to check some things.  What I wanted to know is, is that 'breaking up' of the image my fault, or something wrong with the game?  I've noticed it with all my buildings, and some other people's too.  Oddly, if I move the lot along by one tile, everything looks great.  That's the reason I ask if its my fault or not.  It seems to depend on where I place the lot in the city rather than the zoom or rotation.  


Another thing I wanted to ask for is opinions on what to do with the plaza.  I can't decide if it looks too empty or not (the BATed part, not the lot )  I thought about modelling some plaza furniture, but don't want to make it look too cluttered. It would also mean designing some prop objects from scratch, which would extend the modelling time quite a bit.  I also want to avoid modelling too much flora for now, as I'm not really accomplished at it - a simple, square edged hedge is about all I can manage just now! 

Any suggestions are welcome! 

[Utvaw 45]

Maybe some vendor carts or phones/light poles/benches or plants? It would add to the time, but that is a large area so it looks kind of dead without some things here or there. Unless this is stuff planned for the lot.

I have always appreciated the details that make my cities feel alive.

[ilikehotdogsalot 308]

Woah, that's incredible!

[gottago 24]

This is a fascinating project and beautifully executed. The "breaking up" is the join between 2 LODs and happens fairly often ingame and as far as I know is random and unavoidable. You can replop the lot and often it disappears.

Some staffage such as banners held between poles, an info kiosk/meeting point, and the like would liven up the plaza. Though it's hard to make out, one of the original photos you posted shows some sort of pylon structure which was probably a meeting point. And please do consider swapping out the "overcooked poached salmon" for a darker, more umber-y texture. It could give more contrast/interest to the plaza. The original salmon/ lavender SC4 palette is unfortunate but can be overcome

[delija21 295]

OMG...breathtaking

[Amthaak 1,501]

OMG! That's really outstanding!

[nofunk 1,933]

I'm guessing that the "breaking" stairs is due to how the game assembles the .fsh files, but Jason or SimFox might be able to provide more guidance on that. Still, it's a small blemish on an otherwise fantastic model!

I absolutely love the roof texture on this! It's expertly done, and cylindrical textures are never easy to get right.

It's a huge lot, but I'm sure I'll be able to find some space in my city for it when you're done!

[Blazerhawk 162]

Outstanding work! I can't wait to put this one in my cities. As far as the plaza goes I'd just say go with what feels right.

[psander5 197]

Utvaw: I've been tinkering with some ideas, and whatever 'props' I add to the BAT, I'll make complementary versions of as stand-alone props for the lot. I appreciate your suggestions

ilikehotdogsalot: Thanks!

gottago: Thank you. I figured it must be something to do with the game as it doesn't always display in that way.  Its a bit of a shame but it doesn't worry me too much if its normal.  I'm in the process of adding some prop items now.  I'm finting it difficult though... see below  That pylon you refer to is called Skylon  I made a version of it back on page 1 of this thread, but it's a BAT project in its own right.  I'll be making a new version of it to go with the dome shortly.  I'll address the plaza texture again once I've got the prop objects in place.

delija21: Thanks!

Amthaak: Thanks!    

nofunk: I'll trust what you and gottago have told me so far.  I kind of think the same too.  I'm glad you like the roof texture!  Since the building is almost completely roof, it has to pass as OK at least!  It took a good while to put it together in Photoshop.  Of course, it's not perfect, but it's about as good a job as I can do right now.  The lot should be 10x10  when done.  It still looks small next to some of the US Hockey arenas available.  I'm sure it will fit

crushedcar: Thanks.  I'm trying to go with what feels right, but that doesn't always mean it is right  I get what you mean though.

To go with these replies I might as well show what I've done in the last few days.  It's not much.  I had a major computer crash that destroyed my hard drive data, so I've been busy re-installing and recovering for the last couple of days.  Luckily I keep all my Max files and texture library on external HD, so It was safely stowed away whilst I idiotically destroyed everything else

Click for full resolution

All I've done is 'sketched' a few props into the scene.  I'm not sure I like my attempts at furniture design.  It's not clear from this example, but I do have a degree in the subject!  The problem I'm having is with symmetry.  I can't stay away from it!  I think if I stick with this arrangement, I'll try not to array the pear shaped benches to the other three quadrants.  I've dug myself into a hole though by making the plaza completely symmetrical down two axis.  I think I'll add some lamp posts and litter bins too, but not much else.

By the way, those vague green splodges on the left 'pear' are meant to be foliage  They're still very work-in-progress. I'm not experienced with things like that, and I have nothing already made in my texture or model library that I can merge or re-use.  Once I have them in decent shape though I'm sure they'll be useful and thus turn up in all my future BAT's, so I guess its worth the effort doing it properly. 

If anyone knows an especially good place to get tutorials on foliage I'd appreciate a link  Google throws up too much flotsam and jetsom. 

 

[SimHoTToDDy 2,939]

Looking lovely!

I love the symmetry actually, but to keep it from being completely robotic you can make the landmark elements different relative to each-other (signs with different ads, different tone/arrangement of plants on the planters), but the placement of those objects can still be symmetrical relative to the whole. Of course you can then add some miscellaneous objects to liven it up even further (newspaper machines, banners between supports, posters on the short walls, or even one of Glenni's kebab stands).

It is coming along rather well, the greenery has helped out a lot I think.

[Blazerhawk 162]

Something of that size and shape would work perfectly for a university basketball arena. Good luck with the plaza. BTW your pear shaped benches look good, though they remind of pinball machine parts.