Transporation net works

[KeanoManu 42]

Androv, it mustn't be so complicated and time consuming.

Let's have just one road option (and highway/freeway too of course). And when i click on the road-button i get some easy customization(?) options. I'll let my excellent paint-skills show how i mean.

(i know, that's pure class. But no, i won't accept to do graphic-jobs for the game. )

A little window like that can plop up in an empty corner and then we can get the roads as we want them without problem. After a while it will only take a second to get exact the road we want. I just took some things that can be in, there's many other things that can be added into the list.

The same with highways.. change ground/above-ground and add truck-lines (like those on New Jersey Turnpike, don't know the exact word and not sure if it's on the whole Turnpike, i was only there on vacation but i hope you know how i mean.) And of course the number of lanes.

One more thing with traffic that are missing in SC is that we can't build underground. Let us build tunnels underground the same way as roads on groundlevel. With turns and all that stuff.

Bridges too.

EDIT: Have to clearify. The boxes with X in it are boxes that can be turned on/off depending on if you want it or not in the road.

[_MostlyHarmless 17]

^^ I have been waiting for something like that since SC2k! Number of lanes and texture options.

[screamingman12 30]

Now wait a minute, let's not make more complex than it needs to be. Imagine all the time it would take to build a grid city and select all those options for each road. A senario like that reminds me of the early NAM years when it asked you if you wanted to build an overpass at a street/road intersection (major problem when upgrading streets to roads). Edit: Note the L car on the right, it's a CTA make. Either a 2200, 2600, or a 3200, I'm wondering, will you be able to make custom transit vehicles like these? I had planned on making some NYCTA cars.

[_MostlyHarmless 17]

Imagine all the time it would take to build a grid city and select all those options for each road.quote>

If such an option were available you wouldn't have to select it every time. You select asphalt roads 2 lanes, so every time you click the roads tool you will build 2 lane asphalt roads until you change it again. Not any longer than building a city normally, except you have this extra control

EDIT: definitely CTA style EL there

[thatmonkeysim 8]

Now for anyone who has played Roller Coaster Tycoon 3 knows what about to talk about...

When you get into that game you can ride your rides and have complete 3D control with the cameras while still not sucking up too much power... you can even be on the level of the people and watch their faces as they enjoy your park!

Now in CU i just hope and pray there is something like this, yet all the while there should be some expansion on that... such as what everyone else has talked about...

Full UDI where you can actually Drive a Car through your city and then it goes along with the idea about the signs where you can see where you're going by reading the street signs. Now that is on my wish list of things that i just pray are in the game because... just imagine you worked so hard on your city and then you get to drive down "Main Street" to see your success [or disaster.. hmm that gives me an idea... but thats for another topic lol] of a town!

But as a fellow Bay Area Resident I agree with all that rctshack has to say..

Also there should be a way that you can have, what the SC4 equivalent of On-Top-Road-Anything.

Such As, the Light Rails going along in the middle of your streets and roads and down the middle of highways as well with the ability to have stations... [lemme find a pic]

Like This...

Thats how some of the lines here in the Bay Area help reduce traffic on those freeways that have high levels of traffic...

As for High Speed Rail I would live the possibility to have MagLev Trains too.. though, as in real life, it should be expensive and it should cost alot to operate [such as electricity to power it]

Also he was touching on what I touched on earlier... Schedule Bus times and such... it will lead to alot more uniqueness in cities...

Also if you cant get all the transportation ideas that we have suggested into the game... at least give us moddibility [if thats a word] so we can make it ourselves... as youve seen weve done that alot with SC4 but there are many limitations that we have in doing that...

Bike Lanes here are EVERYWHERE... and they encourage people to walk and bike to work or play... I think they are really needed and should help in making peoples lives healthier

That EL Rail that you guys have is amazing! Dont Change it!!! lol... [as with almost everything i say about CL] from the pics of CL it looks like the roads go in every which way... so please make it to where everything can do that.. if you can already... now only will that make the uniquness higher but also it will help us recreate our own cities... even if you cant get the buildings exact at least you can get the roads...

..ugh its getting late and my brain is turning off... i havent finished this post

[davidhogan 1]

Why not just make a simple road/oneway/avenue/expressway/freeway, then allow purchased upgrades, like turning lanes, sidewalks, lrt, etc?

Dave

[Androv 6]

Keanu, I like how the concept there :-) It would make picking it more straightforward :-) The only issue being that some people would like a simple concrete divider, or maybe a lane-wide grassy divider.... there has to be a limit in what we can do without making it too complicated and I think your picture provides a happy medium :-)

However if we have the five options I listed above I'll be more than happy :-)

[Sap59 3]

having bike and hiking trails through out sections of the city would be a nice feature and as your city grows and you reroute and abondon older railroad track why not replace them with hiking/bike trails much like how "rails to trails" works.

also many new urban villages especially here in florida are planned with golf cart paths which usually are shared with walking paths but in certain sections they flow into roadway shoulders and follow traffic.

they are not only used to go to and from golf courses but are part of a planned transportation system which can take you into the town center and shops as well.

circle intersections would be a nice feature too.

[Romaq 18]

I like the idea of having a simplified menu for choosing roads, and then allowing for upgrades. If transit is nodal based, then I should be able to select a pair or more of intersections and then 'upgrade' the whole lot for a one-time fee plus additional monthly cost. One 'feature' to build into single lane roads would be to add drainage ditches/ gravel shoulders on both sides, or at least set it up as a general option to build them as such. When venues connect to the road or you have crossings, the shoulder is paved over, the ditch has a culvert. When you 'upgrade' the road, you essentially pave over the shoulder/ drainage ditch without having to destroy adjacent buildings. Or perhaps the 'upgrade' is a feature reflecting the value of the local neighborhood, to a certain point.

[Shingure 56]

I would like an elevated rail system. That allows me to build it extensively.

[silentsly123094 0]

me too i want to be able to put the rail over the streets sort of like chicago.

[Hutts 0]

I'd love to see some sort of road building tool like KeanoManu mentioned above where you could select which type of median the road would have (none-residential, double yellow line, grass divided, concrete divided, concrete wall, or center turning lane), select the number of lanes in each direction, and which type of curb (dirt, grass, sidewalk, parking, etc). Highways could be built the same way selecting the type of median with rural and urban styles, any hov lanes, and the number of lanes in each direction.

[Sydney Claridge 106]

I have an idea for transportation networks, based on Keano's idea above.  It mainly involves the implementation of building complex freeway corridors, and arterials with mass transit, but could also be used to change the settings of all roads, too.  With a tool that I'll call the "Transportation Layout Editor,"  you would be able to specify lighting type (freeways, for example, would have none, conventional 50-foot, and 150-foot tall high mast) and placement (center or side; high masts would be only on the side of the freeway with the tighter curve radius), amount of lanes, pavement type (asphalt or concrete), mass transit, and HOV/Managed Lanes (on freeways).  There would also be preset road configurations for those who don't want to make their own configurations.  In addition, a visual image of your configuration could be presented; you would be able to drag-and-drop items around in order to make things easier for the user to use.  And to clear things up, here are my lists of options for this idea:

Arterials:

- Number of lanes total (even number only)

- Mass transit (light rail in center, bus lanes)

- Bike Lanes

- Lighting type

- Pavement type

- Sidewalks

Freeways

- Number of general mainlanes (even num.; not including "auxiliary lanes" between ramps spaced up to 1/2 mile apart)

- Number of access road lanes (even num.; access roads function just like one-way roads along the side of the freeway (for those who are not aware of them), or regular two way roads in rural settings, in which one-way or two-way would be an option)

- Number of HOV / Managed (toll) Lanes (reversible or bi-directional; physically separated from the general use lanes in the center if reversible or 4 total bi-directional lanes or more, striped from freeway with pylons if 2 total lanes bi-directional.   If you had reversible lanes, you would drag the freeway in the Evening Commute direction (as some tend to start freeways radiating out from downtowns))

- Lighting Type

- Pavement Type

- Sidewalks on access roads (only if there are access roads)

In addition, interchanges could be designed with either preset interchanges, or custom interchanges created in the editor.  The Interchange Editor would allow you to take two freeways (or arterials) and configure the ramps, amount of lanes on the ramps (and reversible or not, if connecting to an HOV/Managed Lane facility, especially reversible ones), and what level of the interchange that specific ramp or mainlane (or access roads, if any) would be on.  In addition, you would be able to "skin" the bridges with a certain style or look (you could create skins in a 3D Modeler like Blender or 3ds max).  The Interchange Editor would be able to create interchanges from simple diamonds between a freeway and an arterial to complex 5-level stack interchanges between two freeways, and even toll plazas with cash (manual and exact change) and electronic lanes (or all electronic only, and cash only (as some toll roads are still like that)).

Sorry if I sound like I don't express my ideas clearly.

- HF

[chocolate_city 93]

Houston_Fan.. I like your ideas on Freeways.... anything that will allow you to create flyover ramps, multi stacked interchanges, multi-laned freeways, intersections, is what I been dying for since Sim City 3000. If Monte Christo can give us that... You got a fan for life..

[WookieeRebel 0]

Number one in my book is multiple hight levels. I should be able to build roads underground, below bridges, above elevated stuff, etc... Number two is a more seamless transportation connection to neighboring regions. I want sims to be able to commute to neighboring cities without always pushing the boundary of moving out because of commute times. Number three is a more extensive railway system, i.e. highspeed trains, etc... Another, off topic comment. I think it would be cool if you could have a bus map overlay (Look at each bus route).

[Hutts 0]

What wookieerebel said about bus routes would be a great addition too. In SC4, the busses can take any path they want to get to their destination, being able to define bus routes would be far more realistic. In SC4, how realistic is it when you have dozens of busses traveling down residential streets (i sure wouldn't want to live on one of them).

[Androv 6]

I think residential streets should be off-limits for cross-city transport - they should really on be on main roads. Removing streets from the equation would make pathfinding much simpler by removing the bunch of small roads from the equation.

[rctshack 182]

I completely agree with Andovs idea of streets being off limits. Or at least having the option to have certain road types off limits to busses or so on. I would LOVE to be ablity to make specific routes if I would life. My favorite game I played when I was younger was Transport Giant. Such an amazing game.

[Sim shady 12]

I want as many transit networks that is feasable. But what really matters to me is that you make them real, functioning networks, though i completely understand if that is too much work.

[JCS072488 0]

For highway overpasses it would be cool to have different styles like the ones in California and Texas etc.

[JCS072488 0]

I think we should be able to expand and customise the airports and seaports to a size we want.

[Tropod 144]

Had a read through the thread, some things I hadn't noticed mentioned yet (& some I have);

I have not played CL & do know very little about it, so I do not know how traffic/pathing/networks was implemented in the game or how it is currently being planned to be implemented in CU. This aside though, these are just some suggestions;

With Networks, you get commuters. So...

Pathing System:

Any Pathing, Path Routing, Commuter routing algorithm or system blah blah etc etc needs to be implemented properly, so it works properly, logically. One of thee biggest let downs in SC4 is that traveling a tile(s) diagonally is treated the same as traveling orthogonally, despite the obvious different measurements, so there's no gain or benefit in traveling diagonally. This however, is just one example. Could I imagine though, if CU is not grid based it would not suffer from this particular problem? The less restrictive it is the better (for example; SC4 has a data display limit with the networks of 65535 or whatever it is).

The whole pathing/routing algorithm in general;

It doesn't need to be 100% realistic, but it should be reasonable. For example; Driving is obviously faster than walking, but walking 1Km may be preferable to driving (but not always & not in every instance). It should work on a global scale, not just locally (important). Airports should be able to transport commuters from one city (or airport) to another. Helicopters should also be a mode of transport (but don't need an airport to work; helicopter node/pad would suffice), being more preferable for shorter distances than airplanes. It would be nice if there was an option to plot bus, sea/ship, airplanes/helicopter/air routes manually, but also an automatic system (for those that don't like the micromanagement of this).

On this subject an idea perhaps; I understand pathing algorithm may be the biggest thing for a city simulator (it is for SC4). The more commuters traveling very long distances the more computer power is required (in SC4, as it tries to track start & end point for each one). It would seem somewhat unreasonable to think a whole city of lets say 100,000 people would travel 10hrs for a job, but a small percentage of that population may (business executives for business meetings or tourists on holidays for example). So, perhaps some kind of (modifiable) system where a certain percentage of each household/population (or something), including Commerce & Industrial, travel Xamount of distance Globally, Xamount of distance Locally, Xamount of distance Medium, Xamount of distance Random (or based on actual data).

Multi-dimensional networks;

The ability to have 3 or more of the same or different network types criss-crossing intersecting/over/alongside/parallel/dual/ontopof/etc each other, on both land & water. SC4 was only ever properly designed to handle no more than 2 different path (network specific) types on a single tile at once, & this has caused us headaches with custom content for networks.

Tunnels:

Being able to manually build tunnels (i.e. no stupid terrain requirement in order to trigger), with curves/bends & different entry/exit heights.

Underground/Elevated Networks

Being able to manually build any network type underground or elevated (i.e. road, highway, rail, pedestrian over/underpasses etc). Perhaps an underground & tunnel function could be through the one function (allowing both underground & tunnels). Important thing is here, that both Underground & Elevated have different layers; or rather depths/heights. This way it would allow for different/same network types to cross over another without requiring an intersection, but should also still allow us to connect the two (or 3 or whatever) with differing heights.

Modding Networks;

Obviously the more user-friendly this is, the better. *Preferably* a system where items can be a

[meowza 230]

I'd like to see the following, if not, it's still good:

Allies;

Trollies;

Some kind of Futuristic Mass Transpo. (Including space maybe? );

And a flexible way to mold or combine standard transportation options (ex: customizable highway intersections, elevated-rail over avenue, etc.)

[Sap59 3]

perhaps another way to control traffic on neighborhood side streets is to be able to impliment speed zones, stop signs, speed bumps etc. to curb traffic from those type of areas and keep most of the volume on the main roads to me that would be realistic.

[saltandsauce 0]

i'd like an option to choose the bus routes and what type e.g. rear or front entry or single/double decker buses same with trains

[Androv 6]

In reality, most* people don't say 'hmm, there's a side street down there which will make travelling across the city 0.5 seconds faster than following the main road'. Some people do :-P But the majority of drivers stay on the main roads when they are getting about. So I think we should just eliminate the smaller roads from the transit grid in terms of pathfinding. Allows for much larger cities due to less CPU time on calcultating traffic through Jones Alley vs. Simpson Close.

[Sap59 3]

In reality, most* people don't say 'hmm, there's a side street down there which will make travelling across the city 0.5 seconds faster than following the main road'. Some people do :-P But the majority of drivers stay on the main roads when they are getting about.

lol, maybe where you live.

after living in Orlando for many years many people learned the back & side roads and short cuts through neighborhoods just to stay clear of the traffic and gridlocks.

i found that in certain cases especially during rush hours (that happened to seem non stop the longer i lived there) i can shave off on average 10-15% driving time just by staying off the main roads during most of the trip. Sure it could be an extra few miles out of the way sometimes but i could get there much faster at the end.

sometimes depending where you're going in the city you may have no choice but to take the main roads.

personally i prefer not spending anymore time driving then i have to. :-)

[Androv 6]

I totally agree. Evil local governments in Melbourne put all these nasty things in place so you can't use side streets very well (speed bumps, slow points or even saying "this is a no through road" and cutting the road off halfway through).

But I do think it would simplify pathfinding :-)

[KeanoManu 42]

But the reason you choose the side road is because there's too much traffic on the main road. In SC4 there's no traffic at all on the main roads because the Sims always use the sideroads. I have to cut all road connections in all my cities because the highways wasn't used at all, everyone choosed to drive on a little road beside the big highway instead.

[Sap59 3]

I agree it would simplify pathfinding.

But the reason you choose the side road is because there's too much traffic on the main road. In SC4 there's no traffic at all on the main roads because the Sims always use the sideroads.

True it was an option for me mostly for sanity reasons. :-P

But that was one of my main complaints with the road transportation in SC4 was that they ALL used the most short direct route no matter what road size and zones they went through. On one of my cities i designed it more so where they had to all use the main roads without cut throughs using small enclosed community neighborhoods these streets lead to a residential road leading to a main road then to a major road, i set it up where they had to use at least the main roads for 90% of the traffic since all the neighborhoods were sectioned off (only residents who lived there drove in).

It was more of an urban village or square surrounded by individual communities then a so called city but i had no transportation gridlocks, then again it wasn't a thriving metroplis neither. :-)