Transporation net works

[silentsly123094 0]

hey guys i know that the transporation was a big disipoinment  in sim city societies so what could be a part of transporation that you would want to see in cu

[arkray7 0]

trams of course, get rid of the grl and make trams an option, maybe we can even have trackless trolley

[mystic_horizon 1]

Highways and multi-intersections with functioning lights. Great if it has U-Drive-It mode like SC4:RH.

[Micah 16]

I want all transportation networks possible. Is that too much to ask?

[Kevin 101]

I want it all

From what it sounds like, Monte Cristo has taken into account our demand for realistic and extensive transportation networks. I'm pretty confident that we won't be disappointed.

[thatmonkeysim 8]

Ok Guys!

Here is our favorite topic for any City Building Games... Transportation!

Lets discuss how Cities Unlimited should go about with the options!

Now for my ideas...

Now I havent played CL but from what ive seen from the pictures has been Highways that look the like all the other roads that are in the game...

I think that they should look somewhat different... maybe a different texture color would work or something...

Also I think we can further manage the Buses and Subs and such...

I would love that there was a way for you to go to a screen that looks like a map of your transportation network as it was in real life and you get to customize it! Make it look like the London Underground or LA's Metrolink...

Along with that you can make a schedule that you can also customize... such as Stop Names, How Much Time between buses and so on...

There is so many things that I know Im thinking about but I know the Community has alot more to say...

So heres your chance!

[Hey, TMS. I moved you here. ] Marc

[Sap59 3]

i would also like a lot of transportations options and i would like to see "tracked trolleys" (for both aesthetic and function) and high speed rail.

having extra transportation addons or extensions in the future would be fine with me too.

[silentsly123094 0]

That would be nice another idea is to have graphs to show you where the public wants a train station or a airport sort of like SimCity 4 zone density graphs.

[Romaq 18]

Transit issues:

1) Underground layering. In SC4 you can't do the 'big dig' or other forms of traffic going underground without involving the subway layer. Once that subway layer gets involved, your 'underground highway tunnel' becomes part of the subway. The ability to separate underground roads/ tunnels that turn from the subway would be a huge bonus.

2) SC4 doesn't allow for above ground layering beyond separating 'subway' from everything else, and allowing elevated rail and monorails. Roads may be elevated only as puzzle pieces, and they have to be brutally hammered in by the NAM team. It would be great to have more flexibility to allow for things like bridges that span things like rail yards and such. I think what the NAM 2007 provides for transit is an excellent place to start on those issues.

3) Ferries. Ye-freakin' gods ferries. Ferries are a big part of life in Elliot Bay area as well as ferries out of Fairhaven, WA. My Whatcom County region has Pt. Roberts stranded all by itself apart from any other landmark features. In Real Life, there are PLANS to set up a ferry between Pt. Roberts and Blaine (http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&program=Cascadia%20-%20Marine&id=3862). Within SC4, I wish there was some possible way to do that. I've got a dribble of land isolated from everything else except whatever comes through the airport. Which is to say 'nothing valuable in the SC:S scheme. I don't know... perhaps ferries as transit are not so much the way to go, but being able to support the ILLUSION of ferries and boat traffic would help a great deal.

4) 'Recreational traffic'. I was totally floored to see whales in SC4 oceans. In the Bellingham area, we have the J, K and L pods hanging around our area. It would be wonderful to set up 'whale watching tours' and have docks for boats that actually come and go. It would be great to have campgrounds and seasonal traffic that grows with appropriate weather and then dies back down. It would be great to have foot traffic do that as well. Monte Cristo's Ski Resort had me. I see hikers in the summer on trails and then skiers during the winter, and traffic on streets to match.

On some of these issues, it may not be so much the point to have the computer decide to generate the traffic. How is the computer to decide a particular route is scenic and have cars drive along it just because people want to see the view out the window? But supposing I could make a traffic generator that makes hikers, skiers, boaters and Sunday Drivers, I think the 'plop effect here' approach will be more flexible than expecting the computer to figure out a given area ought to have a given type of recreational traffic upon it.

Anyway, some ideas on the topic of transit.

[Equilibria 16]

I mentioned a few things in another thread on this, but TMS got me thinking...

Labels are going to be really important if the game is played on a level where street signs, highway gantries, and the like can be read clearly, which looks to be the case here. I'd love to see a sign designer, like Karumi's that we all use, built into the game, and the signs to actually go up at intersections and the like.

Same goes for train stations, bus lines, etc.

[saltandsauce 0]

i would love freight to go underground bridges above buildings and 2 lane highways and avenues without the stupid median in the middle

[rctshack 182]

just overall control. It it happens in the real world, hopefully we could imitate it in the game. The big dig intrigues any transportation fan, so being able to do something similar is awesome, tunnels under water, bridges that are fully customisable, LIGHTS on bridges and highways (and maybe lights on buildings - look at downtown dallas at night). Options are the key to making a game player more happy because the more than can make this game THEIR own... the more fun.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Hmm... everything from superhighways to light rail to high-speed ferries to hot air balloons. I want every conceivable transportation option possible.

[dasilva 3]

Originally posted by: Equilibria I mentioned a few things in another thread on this, but TMS got me thinking...

Labels are going to be really important if the game is played on a level where street signs, highway gantries, and the like can be read clearly, which looks to be the case here. I'd love to see a sign designer, like Karumi's that we all use, built into the game, and the signs to actually go up at intersections and the like.

Same goes for train stations, bus lines, etc.quote>

Quite a nice idea Equilibria... I'll push that one to the team to see if this is feasable or even already planned and didn't heard about it

[UrbanSprawl 5]

Realistic Freeways, Realistic Freeways and more Realistic Freeways this time.

Something poorly done in SimCity and left out of City Life altogether.

I want to see traffic jams on these freeways too.

[artforce1 5]

I am going to have to second Equilibria's idea.  When I started the GHSDP (Generic Highway Sign Development Project for you new bee's ), the most frustrating part of the project is that if you wanted to read the signs you made in the game, more than likely the signs were going to be unrealistically large.  Though improvements were made, I too would like to see a part of the game that allows you to make signs that we can READ.  This, of course, is if the roads are improved upon because if the only options I have for roads are dirt roads, which is awsome, and essentially aveneues that turn on a dime and are not maybe curved or contoured to the surface of the playing world, I really doubt I would run out to get this game very soon.  Why?  Because if this game is about building socieities, then you can just toss out highways and trains.  Immagine a world where Europe or Japan never developed their spectacular train networks.  What kind of United States would there be without the awe inspiring interstate highway systems.  Entire cultures were build on roads (Rome anyone?).  I am not saying the game is worthless, the buildings and all the ideas behind it are SPECTACULAR but we need the transportation networks to get things "moving."

- Artforce1

Team Leader, GHSDP

PS:  What will the system requirements be to run this game?

[Kevin 101]

If we're going to have readable signs, I want them to be realistic street/highway signs... not the massive billboards that were in Rushhour. What would be really awesome is if the game could generate a map of our city... street names and all.

And artforce1, click here and check out the 5th post down. (not the 6th one... that one talks about City Life's requirements)

[gabry85 2]

If there will be some sort of UDI, street/hwy signs would be very useful, especially in those confusing spaghetti junctions...

[Romaq 18]

Aye, a first-person view UDI would be ideal. LACK of a first-person drive in SC4 was a huge disappointment.

[silentsly123094 0]

these are all excellent ideas but lets try to stay on transportation for now. speaking of wich is the ski lift part of the transportation or is it just scenery

[rctshack 182]

UDI to me seemed like it should be a different game that uses SC4 maps as it's basis... it was annoying that it was taking up gaming power for something I did once and found dumb... it had nothing to do with building a city. I would love to have different views of the city... but not drive like a criminal through my downtown.

On transportation... I think it would be weird if we controlled ski lifts... but I would have to see for myself first, but it's not really a city transportation device... it's more of a resorts means of transporting people on their property. I may be wrong... are their city funded ski lifts that people take to work? I would be happy to actually see this. Someone else mentioned hot air balloons... and while it would be cool to see these over a massive park in the city, or bay... it's not a means of transportation... it's a recreation thing. It does take you from point a to b... but not like roads or subways do. I am not saying to not add them in the game... but maybe not on the transportation menu, maybe have these create themselves and add that extra element to a city... like it looks the ski lift already has.

Transportation MUST HAVES are (in my opinion of course):

-Streets

-Roads

-Avenues

-One Ways

-Highways

-Light-rail

-Pedestrian Walkways

-Train Rails

-Subways

-Busses

-Monorail

-High Speed Rail

-Airport (customizable)

-Seaport

-Ferries

All transport should act real and serve a function - Real life events should happen, traffic, accidents, cops, so on - Everything should have a lot of customization to make the player feel as if their transportation was special to their city, this could include options to color certain things, options to go up or down on a whim, expanding lanes or splitting roads, signs?, bus and train schedules, custom stations, anything of this sort to make it more unique, the worst feeling is to spend 60 hours on a city and go online to see someone has one that looks almost identical... this should be MY city.

These are options I hope they have along with above:

-Bike Lanes that you can turn off or on while placing roads and avenues in the game

-Double Decker Highways

-Underground option for highways and roads

-Light-rail that can go underground and connect to the above ground

-Pedestrian Bridges for people to walk over highways and train rails

-Subways that can be under, level, and above ground

-Maybe Highways and Freeways as two separate transports... highway being highways with intersections at certain points but a very high speed limit, and Freeways being the same but with on and off ramps

-The monorail should be improved from previous city builder games and should be more functional and a faster means to get through downtown or tourist areas

-High Speed Rail should be a way to travel between cities and have the option to go underground for downtown areas. San Francisco is planning for high speed rail service to LA and they are going to have the trains go under downtown to the station in the center of the city

-Airports should be able to be created easily by the player and we can expand it as the city grows (if space permits)

-Seaports should also be able to grow the same as airports;

You get the gist.

[Jman47 0]

Everything, of course! i think it is important that you are able to choose the amount of lanes on your roads and highways, rather than having set options.

high speed monorail like in japan would be nice too.

[trolleyman515 0]

Originally posted by: arkray7 trams of course, get rid of the grl and make trams an option, maybe we can even have trackless trolleyquote>

 

As a driver for ollie the trolley here in Omaha i would love to see a version of it on a city game have trolley stops near landmarks and other buildings and watch the trolley stop and go around that would be awesome to see

[Horus_Kol 118]

something that I seemed to have missed in the earlier posts:

CURVES...

the roads and rails stick to an orthogonal plot in SC4 - it would be so much nicer to have an easy long curve stretching away...

[gabry85 2]

Originally posted by: Jman47 Everything, of course! i think it is important that you are able to choose the amount of lanes on your roads and highways, rather than having set options.

high speed monorail like in japan would be nice too.quote>

100% agree, and with no limitations of lane number and no grid restrictions. Monorail in the middle of the avenue is IMO, a must-have in my city. I think that the must-haves of which rctshack said should be included too; I hope that anything we already built in SC4 shouldn't be missing.

[dasilva 3]

Taking notes... )

[Androv 6]

My thoughts on roads:

I love the roads in City Life - build between any two points on the map, then build along them.  It didn't have curved roads but to be honest you could simulate them pretty well with small road segments.  So I'd like to keep that design feature :-)

As for types of roads available - that's where it gets trickier.

In an 'ideal' city simulator you should be able to pick sidewalk, nature strip, parking (parallel/angle etc), bike lanes, bus lanes, central divider, number of lanes, width of lanes, direction of lanes, special lanes which only accept cars with multiple passengers at certain times of day and so on.  Intersections could be unsigned, give way, stop, traffic lights, roundabout and so on as well.

The problem there is that it will take 10 minutes just to decide on what road you want to use in a specific section of your city and it will get horribly time consuming.

The next question is do we want to be laying all of our roads?  Do we need to lay the roads which service each house or should we just be laying the main roads that carry significant traffic, and have the computer create the residential or commercial 'zones' that lie within the main roads?

My thoughts are that if we want to be the mayor of a large metropolis spanning 50km then we shouldn't be bothering ourselves with the small details of the streets in each neighbourhood - only the main roads that are important for cross-city traffic, which is basically what they were in the original SimCity and SimCity 2000.

I think there should be a set number of 'base' road which we should be able to use.

Suburban street "Street" - sidewalk, nature strip, parking available, no divider, 2 lanes.
Arterial Road "Road" (secondary importance) - sidewalk, parking available, no divider, 2 lanes.
Arterial Road (primary importance) - sidewalk, parking, 4 lanes (the only one without a comparison for SC4, although they did exist in City Life).
Arterial Road "Avenue" (primary, divided) - sidewalk, parking, 4 lanes, divided.
Freeway / "Highway"- no sidewalk, no parking, 6 lanes, divided, no intersections.

Then if you want something different to that, there could be an editor where you adjusted as you wanted.  An issue would be how the buildings would cope with having roads of different widths.

This would allow people who didn't want to devote hours of time to creating different road types to just use the basic options, and the people who wanted to spend a lot of time (myself included) on building varied road types would be able to spend hours doing that instead of building a city.

I think the most complicated roads we have in Melbourne (Australia) would be something like Royal Parade - it has a sidewalk, nature strip, 'service' lane, divider, 4 lanes in the centre (2 each way), the central lanes having trams as well, and then another divider and service lane on the other side.  Not to mention different sections of the road which forbid cars from driving in the tram lanes and others that allow it.  So if we could create roads that detailed it would be cool.  If we were *forced* to create roads like this then it would not be cool and most people wouldn't be able to get into the game.

As for intersections, I think you should have an advisor who decides on what to build based on traffic flow and so on.  You could go around and create your own intersections if you wanted but it wouldn't be a requirement of the game to do this to improve traffic flow.


Other forms of transport:
Busses - Just let us build a 'bus depot' which has 100 busses and then they can drive around and transport people.  I don't want to bother with setting up routes, I just want them to reduce the number of cars on the road.  I don't want to build 'bus stops' as big as a house on every street corner.  I'd be very happy for this to be simplified.

Trains - Melbourne has a lot of above-ground rail.  I like to lay rail, but I don't want to be plopping stations every 200m for my lazy sims.  A single rail station every kilometre or so would be great, and then the bloody sims can walk for the train.  Or drive.  Or catch a bus (at a bus stop I don't need to build).  I don't want to be allocating specific times for trains to arrive at each station.

Subways/Elevated Rail - Should be part of the ground rail system.  Our trains go above the ground, and they go below the ground, and they travel along the ground.  We don't have different trains for different elevations of the track.  I understand that in City Life there were only Subways, but since your were expected to build a rather dense city I can understand the reason for not including other types of rail.

Airports - I don't think we should need to build these unless our city map is *massive*.  Put it on a 'region' view.  Make us build a freeway to it or something.  If it is on the map it should be huge, take up lots of space and be highly polluting.

Seaports - If located in the main city, these should be large and highly polluting.  Melbourne has ports which stretch for kilometres (we have a suburb which has been made from land reclaimed from old wharves which aren't needed nowadays).

Ferries - Nice, but only for certain cities and again I don't want to be setting timetables (there's a ferry, just use it!)

Trams/Light Rail - Complicated.  Maybe to complicated to include easily and probably too much of a hassle for most people to use.  But I'm from Melbourne and I love trams :-)  Again, don't make me build tram stops or have tram timetables!!  Maybe just something that if you place a tram track along a segment of road, it reduces the vehicle capacity but improves public transport.

Pedestrian Walkways - Meh.  Do we even need to simulate pedestrians?  You drive your car, park at work or somewhere near it.  I don't care where you walk.  Train station?  If you're close enough you'll walk, otherwise you'll catch a bus at a bus stop near your that I haven't placed and take it there.  Or drive.


I think my basic thoughts are this.  If we're going to have a 10km x 10km city, then I wouldn't mind having control over each suburban street and tram and so on.  If we're building a city that stretches for 50km, then those little things can be left in control of the computer and I can focus on creating the entire metropolis.  Multiple lanes, directions, parking types and so on are nice but are going to scare off a lot of people.  They would be nice to have as 'options' which advanced users can modify to create a multitude of different roads but if you just want to lay down some roads it would be incredibly tedious without having some 'base' road formats.  Other transport options are nice but again they should be simple to lay with possibly some advanced options.  Airports and seaports should be huge, if included in the 'city' at all.

[gabry85 2]

Originally posted by: dasilva Taking notes... )quote>

Thanks, Philippe!  I'm glad we have so much mutual feedback. You guys are GREAT!!!

[Wyqtor 14]

Besides customizable highways and roads (I would like to pay attention to every detail: number of lanes, creating custom interchanges, etc.), my dream would be to create an alpine resort.

That ski-lift was amazing and it got my hopes up. It got me thinking of things like:

- aerial tramways (a.k.a. cable-cars) - with an option to set how high above ground the cable is gonna be and how many supporting pillars will be along the route -, and 2 shiny hubs/stations at either end;

- gondolas like in Rio de Janeiro (with one station down, one station at the top and a possibility to add intermediate stations),

- funiculars (trams going up-/downhill at a big angle, pulled by a cable too but on normal tracks), like in Salzburg and Budapest,

- high mountain rack railways like in many Swiss resorts.

- Also a suspended monorail would be great (the train is below the rail and suspended from it), there is something like it somewhere in India and Wuppertal, Germany). I believe the best would be if these transportation systems would be transit-enabled.

Just imagine: taking the tram from the city center to the foothills of the mountains, then switching to take the cable-car, gondola or rack railway to arrive to your virtual workplace (or tourist trap) on top of the mountain: a ritzy, $$$ ski and/or hiking resort! But I think I'm starting to dream with my eyes open...

Probably you guys won't implement all this stuff I mentioned, but probably the most important thing of all is to make CU very moddable in order to allow the modding community to create things like these. Probably a solution would be to

1.eliminate grids entirely;

2.to create several "height levels" in order to take transportation into the 3rd dimension. For example, a road passes diagonally through a tunnel below a 4-level customized stack interchange. Sloped sections of roads/highways connect different height levels. Probably the lack of this feature in SimCity 4 determined a few modders to abandon the idea of creating an aerial-tramway/gondola, I was very sad that it couldn't be created.

Another idea of mine for modding: make it possible to create new categories for ploppable objects, like roads. My SimCity 4 interface for instance (the one on the left side of the screen) is very cluttered and I can't reorganize it to put the bats/mods I use more frequently in my own customized categories. I have to scroll through dozens of objects in my "transit" tab in order to find my precious highway sound-barriers!

Many fellow simmers before me said this, but I have to say it also: thank you Philippe for listening to our opinions and ideas!

[silentsly123094 0]

these are all wonderful idea and thanks phillpe for listing on us.