Let us repair this fracture that tears our community apart.

[joerg 281]

Dear Communities of BOTH Simtropolis and Sim City 4 Devotion. I understand that many things have gone wrong over the past few years, and because of that our amazing community has been fractured at its very core. That core is the fans that make the content and bring that content to life in cities and on the pages of these great sites. I see constant bickering amongst these communities over where content belongs and where credit should be given, and to be honest it sickens me with every glancing read.

I do not mean to deny that things have gone a rye and that people have been mistreated under false pretenses. However, I refuse to accept the misconception that we as a community both Sim City Devotion and Simtropolis, as well as many countless other communities have such different agendas and strengths that we may not function as one again.

When I left this community two years ago I was still in high school and by many standards I lacked the maturity to understand that maturity and respect are both things that can only be gained over time. I do not claim to have accomplished adding either of those virtues to my character, but I do know those traits can be found within all of us if we simply look past our differences and learn to once again respect each others talents and passions, which unsurprisingly many of us share.

I do not have a vast proposal to bring these communities back together, but I do wish to ask favors of each and every one of you. First off please let us go back to accepting that this is merely a game in which all of us love, and that what we add to the game should be enjoyed by all and not the few that we see fit. Next let us learn to respect each other, this should not be hard to ask of you, it just means when a flamer goes off on another member we defend them rather than sit back and let this abuse occur. More over please do not join in on the complaints, it only tears us apart further and drives members like myself and many others away. Finally I believe that both Simtropolis and Sim City 4 Devotion are amazing sites, and both have very different and yes similar things to bring to the community and both are essential to strengthening us as a whole. However, me must learn to share and be a community as a whole. Forget only uploading content to one site out of loyalty or worse, spite! Doing this accomplishes nothing, and if there is one insult to be given in this thread it is this, If you are the type of person that refuses to share with others simply because you want the fame or the hype or you lack the maturity or understanding to communicate and aid in changing things for the better, then you may need to reassess your priorities.

All that said I would like to put forth this gesture of goodwill, I will likely begin working with BSC, members of Simtropolis, and members of SC4 Devotion, in an effort to create new bats and it is my hope that I can help bring a renaissance to this community and its many glorious projects. In doing this I promise to release all of my content at both sites with no personal agenda, and it is my personal vendetta to help aid in the repair of that fracture that weakens us all. Thank You –Joerg.

PS: if you kids don’t learn to share and play nice I will remove my content and that is like 250,000 downloads so HA! --------------JK, I figured this post could use a good laugh.

[CWLGAMER01 39]

Great POST -- Recommended READING!!

Thanks Joerg:

[Goldfish4209 9]

And just how does a politician shut down an uprising of disgruntled people short of violence? I'm sorry, but talking isn't going to do much. I don't see how this is going to go away instantly with a letter.

We could think of this as a stillborn revolution. There's going to be some amount of confusion, violence, etc, but nothing's going to happen. We just need to wait it out.

My $0.02

[simzebu 20]

I think joerg makes a good point. There is no reason for the petty fighting that has arisen recently. Remember, this is the Internet. You don't need to read it if you don't want to. Just remember this helpful acronym: IGNORE: I Grant No Over-Reactions Ever. I just made that up. I don't know why.

[DuskTrooper 314]

This attempt to heal wounds will probably be as successful as an attempted synthesis of a sustained absolute zero reaction in the depths of Hades (except for the 4th zone of the 9th circle, perhaps ), seeing how hard-hearted, and full of strife some of these people have become towards one another...

But more power to ya for taking a stand!

[patriots_1228 51]

uhh....dusktrooper........in english please lol

yea i definetely have started a peace movement lol!

[dedgren 830]

We've posted this over at SC4D in response to joerg's post there.

Thank you very much, joerg, for expressing sentiments that many of us share.  There would seem to be an extraordinary level of high emotion that the recent developments as to the future of Sim City have released, and some things have been said as a result that do not reflect well on our community.  It is clear that those emotions have also fed tensions between various fansites.

As hopefully everyone knows by this time, we have the following among our SC4D Rules [ linkie ]

One final word for those who would discuss here in the forums the goings-on at other SC4 fansites: DON'T.  Other than the fact that this, too, is a waste of time and bandwidth, it is completely contrary to the community spirit we expect SC4D members to show.

I'm pretty sure that folks know we take that rule, as we do all our rules, very seriously.  I see joerg's sentiments about Simtropolis, as expressed in his post, as completely consistent with the rule, and almost certainly very timely said in light of the current state of affairs.  He asks why we all just can't accept our differences in the community and move forward in the spirit of the one thing everyone in the community has in common- the great enjoyment we experience when we play SC4.  While he speaks specifically of relations between members of ST and SC4D, what he says applies in a far larger sense to relations between the memberships of all the fansites in the community.

This post stands as the thoughts of one SC4D member.  It deserves careful reading.  While each of our members is entitled to take his or her own position on the issues joerg raises, I would hope that, in general, he has expressed what I would call the "common wisdom" here- respect everyone,  be courteous in your dealings with others, be willing act first in forgiving things, don't be petty.  Above all, he says let enjoyment of the game be put first.  Pretty hard to argue with that.

I don't really know what else needs to be said beyond what our friend has here.  On the other hand, I don't think it's fair that I should make a comment and have the last word when I'm sure others feel strongly about the matters raised.  So, I'll do two things on behalf of jeronij and the staff- I'll leave this thread open for comments for a day or two so that everyone who would care to has the opportunity make a positive and supportive contribution.  Second, I will carefully monitor the thread- anyone who leaves a comment that is in conflict with the particular rule I've quoted above can expect to hear from SC4D about that, and the communication will not be in the nature of, "Hi- how are you doing?"  I note that this thread is an opportunity we are providing for folks to speak on a topic not normally raised here- please do not consider it an invitation to start additional threads of this nature.

Finally, thanks again, joerg, for speaking up.quote>

David

[masochist 111]

Yeah...my piece...

This is very personal to me. I notice this rift every single day. Someone makes a side comment about ST or SC4D (where the rift seems to be the largest), and I twitch a bit. I mean, I don't mind that there are two or three or seventeen fan sites for SC4. And I don't really care how those sites came to be (so long as they're there). No, what really bothers me about it is when people put down entire an site because of conflicts they have with maybe 10 or so people on that site. It happens all the time on both sites, and it's absolutely terrible...because as a member and supporter of both sites, I'm getting pelted with insults left and right 24/7 (hence why it's personal). People mean to say "This person is this" or "That group isn't that," but what they end up saying is "SC4D is this" or "ST isn't that," and frankly, I'm tired of it. Even beyond the rudeness towards the people these comments are actually aimed at, I think this stereotyping and overgeneralization of entire crowds is a large contributor to the problem at hand. I really do. And I (as well as countless others) are stuck in the middle having to take the grunt of the attacks from both sides. I'm almost positive that I'm not the only one who's tired of dealing with it.

Or...what's worse (and I can't even believe this is a problem, but it is) is when people will not associate with other people simply because of the fact that they are a member of a site or group...and this one goes beyond just Simtropolis and SC4 Devotion. To me, that's a perfect parallel to racism, and absolutely no less wrong. That's what made me realize that this was a serious problem. I really would like to thank joerg for bringing up this topic, because I don't think that we can ignore this elephant in our room any longer...not when it's grown this big.

At this point, I'm not looking for a magical friendship. Just a little civility towards each other would be great. You know...stop saying that people are bad simply on the basis of their membership/support to a certain site. And maybe stop putting down entire fan sites simply because you have a conflict with a tiny number of members on that site. I think just doing that would go a long way in at least shrinking this split in the community...and it's not at all hard to do. Just takes a bit of courtesy, is all.

[A Nonny Moose 8,262]

As most active members know, I am not active in the production of user content.  I have done a few pieces, mainly to see that I could.  On my early efforts, I got some pretty harsh criticisms, but I simply ignored them, while feeling that I needed to mature some more.  So I laid off for quite a while, and then added a couple of more lots.  As well received as most, but this is not my thing.  I simply enjoy playing.

I hardly noticed the rising tide of angst over various creation teams.  I work mostly in the General and the Bugs and Technical Issues sections and oversee the Moose Factory as a fun exercise.

Of course, I noticed the action belatedly.  This resulted from all the threads coming in saying "Where did xxx go?"  or I can't find some package I need.  I try to send the victim to the right site if I know which it is.  I am not amused by this abandon ship move of the various cliques.  This is very childish, especially when they remove and/or cease to maintain their material.

It is truly sad, and I am sorry to see these groups leave in such high dudgeon.  It is making my work more frustrating, but I've been there before, and done that.  One of the advantages of age is that you don't usually get very excited about anything.  Maybe it is the lowered hormone titer or just experience from the school of hard knocks.

Meanwhile, by all means, if the community is getting frayed around the edges, it is time to get out the patching material, and do what we can.  It is truly amazing that we have members who care enough to write good letters on this.

Congratulations to both.

John.

[Dirktator 2,324]

It's a very noble proposition.  I do understand that pleas like this are written with only the best of intentions. 

But words alone will not carry the day.  It's easy to say that we agree in principle, of course we all do, don't we?  But when our principles are tested, how many of us remain steadfast?  How many of us find it easier even tempting to buy into the conflict, and toss our principles aside?  The unfortunate truth is that it's alarmingly easy, and I have seen once better people become the worse for it.

I don't intend to dismiss the notion, far from it, I do support it as an ideal, and I am willing to support it with action when the need arises.  I hope that I will feel more encouraged as things progress. 

cheers,

[joerg 281]

Thank you Dirk, and everyone, especially David. I recommend anyone that is interested go check out this same thread at SC4 Devotion, I would post a link, but hey it might be good for some of us to be forced to browse around over there. Anyhow the point is that the reaction over there is with open arms, here we seem to remain stubborn in our position, and it is not a negative position, it is just a stubborn one. You are all right in saying that my words or anyones words will not correct the problem, but that is not what I am asking, I am asking that we show each other respect. I guess I fail to see how hard this should be. I know some people will never understand the meaning of respect, but for the rest of us can we not live with ignoring them?

[Ryan B 35]

dirk / joerg / dedgren:  After reading the statements, and everyone's reaction, I am of the opinion that this message become required reading on both sites.

[ILL Tonkso 1,239]

This place confuses me sometimes. Im not quite sure how to express myself at the moment but i agree with the Moose Mans comments. Why do we need to move away from ST. Thats running away from the problem in my opinion. (This is NOT an attack on the BSC)

[dolphin66 5]

No offense taken Tonks..but I would like to say that I don't believe that any BSC member or any other members of ST has "ran" away from ST. Several members and members of BSC brought these same exact problems to ST Admin several months ago...nothing seemed to get any better so those members that wanted to, moved to SC4devotion and removed their creations from the STEX, which is their right since those creations belonged to them. As you can tell, BSC members have been gone a very long time now and these same types of concerns are being brought up and members are leaving for the same exact reasons. To me, that would be reason for concern. The biggest thing that hasn't changed in my opinion is same ole response from some of the ST staff..."good grief, not again" attitude. There has to be a reason why so many members bring this concern up and are leaving.

I have no ill feelings nor am I angry with any ST member, I just choose to share my creations and spend most of free time at other sites that I feel more comfortable at. I am a very proud member of the BSC, proud member of SC4devotion and still a proud member of ST.

As for repairing this "fracture" in the community, I think we need to learn how to be kind and accepting of ALL members, wether they belong to ST, SC4d, Simcities, etc or whatever team/group they belong to. Accept that just because this is the internet, people do have feelings and they do hurt when someone is bashing them in a written post. If the need to criticize someone is necessary, it can be done respectfully. So, as many members have said before me, the bottom line is.... RESPECT each other.

[Filasimo 1]

i completely agree dolphin and ill add on to what he just implied about respect and also what jplumbey has mentioned about respect.......ive been silent about this whole issue and now decided to throw in my 2 cents......yes i agree it IS just a game BUT since we are a massive SC community it really is what it comes down to is respect. i feel that if you are a member of a site, any actions that you do will reflect on what the site represents. do people really want a site to be known as a site full of troublemakers? or a site full of knowledgeable people? you decide...

[BIWDC 2,296]

well this a good start but there is a long road ahead,& it's got dead ends

& a fliped truck but some people will get through.

(pardon the pun)

(This was ment to lighten the mood a bit & i hope it wasn't taken badly)

[Meg 368]

Originally posted by: dolphin66 

Several members and members of BSC brought these same exact problems to ST Admin several months ago...nothing seemed to get any better quote>

The frustrating thing about all of this is that people don't seem to even understand where others are coming from.  Take this exchange between Dirk and JPlumbley.   At first the issue seemed to be that something "went on for several hours", then it seems to be that communication wasn't what he would like it to be.  

A staff of volunteers -- all of whom have jobs, school, families, and lives -- can not cover a website 24/7.   Nor is there time to hand hold every person through every problem.  People seem to think that the staff is sitting around with nothing to do but serve their emotional needs.  Sounds like a nice place but it's not the planet we live on.

I don't understand where these expectations are coming from.

[BIWDC 2,296]

i don't think people want the staff to hold there hand it's more of

if something says it's moderated then you would figure more

would be caught(although not everything i wouldn't expect that)

& if more people reported stuff that was missed we would be in 

good shape & yes there volunteers & they have lives however if 

your a staff member then you should be checking on things as 

much as possible as that's what the position is for i am not trying 

to offend i am just stating a point & this is the first step to getting

the community together.

[Joesocwork 4]

Originally posted by: BIWDC i don't think people want the staff to hold there hand it's more of
if something says it's moderated then you would figure more
would be caught(although not everything i wouldn't expect that)
& if more people reported stuff that was missed we would be in 
good shape & yes there volunteers & they have lives however if 
your a staff member then you should be checking on things as 
much as possible as that's what the position is for i am not trying 
to offend i am just stating a point & this is the first step to getting
the community together.

also volunteer fire men don't throw the hose down & let it burn do they,
again not to offend(more of another pun)

quote>

 

^Well your response seems to indicate you think there might not be enough staff or the ones we have are not quick enough yet and not enough people are being caught.  Yet we could go to other posts here and in other threads where members suggest that that SimTropolis has too much staff or they respond  too quickly and too many people are being caught.  Okay...

We accept a  certain amount of dissonance as being okay b/c its an indicator of the vitality and involvement of the membership of a pretty big fansite with a big and a vastly diverse fanbase.  But we also accept, by definition, that just like the advisors in the game, we're not going to get 100% membership satisfaction either way no matter what.  And if we do then get that mythical 100% satisfaction then that could be an indicator that the site would probably have become moribund and not worth arguing about anyway.   But in terms of expectations, we do read the posts and we do read the p.m.'s and I would really hope that individual members respect that if staff don't respond in a certain way that they would like that it's not the equivalent of letting a house stay on fire.    

We're not only looking at complaints as simple case manager to meagerly put out fires,  but we're also looking at trends and perceptions,  how the membership responds to what as a whole, and also sometimes for the maturity of how individual members themselves respond or respond back to what they are seeing and they are wanting.  All of this in planning the direction of the site.   

But, as SkiGeek implied, if we do this 24/7 then we're  probably neglecting RL families, careers, and lives that matter much more in the long run than a website or a computer game and we hope the majority of the membership has enough class to keep a similar perspective.  

[Voar Tok 4]

Originally posted by: BIWDC i don't think people want the staff to hold there hand it's more of

if something says it's moderated then you would figure more

would be caught(although not everything i wouldn't expect that)

& if more people reported stuff that was missed we would be in 

good shape & yes there volunteers & they have lives however if 

your a staff member then you should be checking on things as 

much as possible as that's what the position is for i am not trying 

to offend i am just stating a point & this is the first step to getting

the community together.

also volunteer fire men don't throw the hose down & let it burn do they,

again not to offend(more of another pun)

quote>

Question - if you had seven free hours in a day, would you spend all of them on ST looking for stuff that needed attention?  If you had one free hour in a day, would you spend all of it on ST looking for stuff that needed attention?  As a staff member, I spend the time my schedule can allow, but at the same time, no one else on the staff expects me to forgo some time for myself either.  When working on a project, no one expects anyone else to put all their free time towards it until it's finished.

The problem with the volunteer firemen analogy is that they are doing a job where the work entails emergencies.  Most of the stuff that happens on a website isn't an emergency.  A lot of it is important, but in the grand scheme of things, a few hours isn't going to kill anyone.

Finally, there is one fundamental difference here between the firefighter analogy and what actually goes on here.  Volunteer firemen actively sign up for the job.  A staff member agrees to do a job.  If anyone didn't catch it at first, there is a difference there.  When a staff member is extended an invitation, it's never an invitation to join the staff like it's a club or something.  No, it's an invitation to help out in a bigger way.  I remember when I was approached about being a chat op, the question wasn't worded "would you like to be a chat op?".  No, it was worded "would you be willing to be a chat op?".  There's a fundamental difference there.  Being a staff member isn't seen by the admins as a reward to give to people who are nice and helpful.  No, it's a position that needs filling, for which they must find someone who is willing to make enemies in the process of helping the site.  If we stop and analyze it, there's nothing glamorous about the position.  Except for the friendships you will probably form with the other staff members, the most likely things anyone will get out of it is grief, threats, and a load of additional stress on top of whatever they have from their regular life.  Since no one is paid, it's unrealistic to expect people to routinely drop a part of their lives for a job they didn't even try to find.  The admins know this, which is why they don't get bent out of shape if there's a post on the forums with someone hurling insults at someone else that was left around for a couple of hours instead of a few minutes.  Catching it in a few minutes would be great, but reality says that we all have to tend to our livelihoods first.  After that is taken care of, a lot of us devote what time is left to the site.  This is ultimately the way it should be.  If were to go off to work, and someone made a post in one of my forums that needed to be removed only half an hour later, it would have to wait all day before I could get around to it or another moderator could.  Now, the question is, who's real life was harmed by the post being there half a day?  But, if I'm at work and hanging around on ST waiting for the post, which I don't even know is coming until it does, I could lose my job, which would seriously hurt my real life.  The admins know that, which is why we don't, and never will, have official shifts for the staff.

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: SkiGeek

Originally posted by: dolphin66 

Several members and members of BSC brought these same exact problems to ST Admin several months ago...nothing seemed to get any better quote>

The frustrating thing about all of this is that people don't seem to even understand where others are coming from.  Take this exchange between Dirk and JPlumbley.   At first the issue seemed to be that something "went on for several hours", then it seems to be that communication wasn't what he would like it to be.  

A staff of volunteers -- all of whom have jobs, school, families, and lives -- can not cover a website 24/7.   Nor is there time to hand hold every person through every problem.  People seem to think that the staff is sitting around with nothing to do but serve their emotional needs.  Sounds like a nice place but it's not the planet we live on.

I don't understand where these expectations are coming from.

quote>

 

How dense can you get?

If you read my first response again to Dirk.  You would notice that I was talking more about communication in that post than about "speed".  Would you like me to get some quotes for you?  Ok then, here they are:

1. From paragraph 7.

Noone from the staff tried to mediate anything to cool the heads.  I would have like to have been responded to in a PM telling me we are aware of this situation and will continue to monitor it. quote>

2. From same paragraph.

This issue could have been talked about in PMs and it would not have give me as many issues with other users.quote>

3. From Paragraph 8.

Quicker reaction and better communication is what I was asking for.quote>

4. From Paragraph 11.

This line should be enforced, by the "staff" sending a PM or something stating this is wrong and you should apologize or something along those lines.  The PM should be coppied to the person who the comment was directed at aswell.quote>

Just a few quotes to clear the air.  The issue seems to be more the fact that the "staff" dont listen to complaints, make a general statement of reminder, and then lock the thread.  Maybe some more initiative would be a better way to solve problems rather than sit back and let them happen.  But then again Skigeek, Dirk has already said to me that it is not in your mandate to do such a thing as take the iniative.

Next time, maybe you will read a post fully to find out what it really has to say rather than take the part that you "think" it is about before you comment on it.  I was talking the entire time about respect, Dirk just choose to make time the first issue.

For those who are going to complain, we dont expect our staff to be on all the time.  That is fine, I dont have an issue with that.  But when you are contacted, and given a complaint, react to it, and give the two or more people involved a PM or two to estatblish communication!  Its only common courteousy.

I dont think I can make it any more clear than this.

[GMT 389]

cmon guys, safe your power for the next world war... or the dinner

I see reasons why ppl left to create the sc4d. positive reasons.

i don't care bout the negative aspects as they are none of my concern.

but im concerned bout the flamery started between these 2 impressive communities.

and i'm convinced that this is totally unnecessary.

why don't you guys just leave history to itself, and go on as ... not necessarily as friends (for cracks gone deep inside as I understand the issue) but at least as... former friends... side by side if not hand in hand.

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: GMT cmon guys, safe your power for the next world war... or the dinner

I see reasons why ppl left to create the sc4d. positive reasons.

i don't care bout the negative aspects as they are none of my concern.

but im concerned bout the flamery started between these 2 impressive communities.

and i'm convinced that this is totally unnecessary.

why don't you guys just leave history to itself, and go on as ... not necessarily as friends (for cracks gone deep inside as I understand the issue) but at least as... former friends... side by side if not hand in hand.

quote>

 

Hmmm...  There is no "war" between the 2 communities.  If you notice, all the people here saying that there is something wrong are members of the ST community.

SC4Devotion is an entirely separate community that keeps within itself.  I am a member of both SC4Devotion and ST, so does that mean I dont have the right to say I dont like whats happening here at ST?

I think you should think a little harder next time before making a general comment like that.  There has been anyone from SC4Devotion in this thread making this into a community vs community thread.  It is a thread to repair issues.  Issues that need to be repaired must be talked about before they are repaired.

Listen again for those who think this is a "war" between communities or teams or whatever.  It is NOT!  It is a dispute amoungst Simtropolis members.

Dont listen to the propaganda of the those saying it is a "war", because it just simply isnt.  You would have to have 2 parties contributing to this "war".  But, what I see is members of ST expressing differences.

[gshmails 536]

Who is being dense JPlumbley?

The staff has explained that you are not the only one with these problems.  They cannot respond personally to every problem.  They did react to yours, and posted the correct response.  You cannot continue to complain about it because it wasn't to you level of expectations.  You do not pay for membership here, and should expect no gold package service!

You are not the only one who this has happened to, and most of us move on from the problem.  There are thousands of active members here, some do not know how to be part of a community, and post rude statements.  As I said earlier, you got alot more positive feedback than negative. 

This is a dispute between YOU and the staff now.  GMT did not refer to it as a war, he said save your energy for the next world war.  We could all use a bit more thought before we post, don't you think?

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: gshmails Who is being dense JPlumbley?

The staff has explained that you are not the only one with these problems.  They cannot respond personally to every problem.  They did react to yours, and posted the correct response.  You cannot continue to complain about it because it wasn't to you level of expectations.  You do not pay for membership here, and should expect no gold package service!

You are not the only one who this has happened to, and most of us move on from the problem.  There are thousands of active members here, some do not know how to be part of a community, and post rude statements.  As I said earlier, you got alot more positive feedback than negative. 

This is a dispute between YOU and the staff now.  GMT did not refer to it as a war, he said save your energy for the next world war.  We could all use a bit more thought before we post, don't you think?quote>

 

HA!!  You are listening to the staff and making this about me vs the staff.  You have to be kidding me.

Go back and read my posts throughout Goaskin's (not JPlumbley's) thread that he is leaving ST.  Read them carefully, it was not until the very end where I brought out my one individual proof that things here have gone array.  I dont think my situation is all that bad compared to others.  All I am trying to do is bring awareness to the fact that there are people here who have been driven away by disrespect and then the way the staff has handled it.

Get this straight!  I do not think my situation is the worst or needs to be looked at with a fine tooth comb.  I think that the policies of this site should be enforced, better or some of them be changed.  Awareness of the common STer is what I am trying to raise because many of them are being left in the dark from locked threads and hiden agendas.

My situation is one of hundreds if not thousands.  I just havent been pushed to the brink of leaving like the others yet. 

EDIT:  BTW I did not bring my situation to the fore front until after the "staff" started asking "Where? Where? I have never seen such things."  I was just giving them the proof THEY asked for.  I had stated earlier I didnt want to bring up any situations in particular and I waited until I was asked directly where this was happening.  So if you think I am trying to make this about me.  You have got to be kidding me!

[Sam 163]

jplumbley you will not always agree with the actions staff take in dealing with the issues on this site. However since you are talking about respect could I suggest that it be a two way process, and that you accord the staff some respect to deal with site issues whether or not you approve of how they did it. Everyone has different meanings to respect and communication, and they also have the right to that. Understanding that is respect.

[jplumbley 5]

Originally posted by: sam jplumbley you will not always agree with the actions staff take in dealing with the issues on this site. However since you are talking about respect could I suggest that it be a two way process, and that you accord the staff some respect to deal with site issues whether or not you approve of how they did it. Everyone has different meanings to respect and communication, and they also have the right to that. Understanding that is respect.quote>

 

Hey Sam,

I agree.

What I dont agree with is when the "staff", like Skigeek above, has taken what I have said and then turned it into something else.  And ignore the actual contents and meanings behind the post.

I did not start with one thing and go onto the next like I am just being difficult.  I am upset that she has not actually read what I have written and ignored certain aspects of my post to suit her rather than actually look at the issue and think about it, just a little bit.

Sam, on a note towards you and a few other staff members I have had dealings with on multiple occasions I have to agree that you guys do the best you can.  But, my general "staff" comments are not directed at those staff members and they know who they are.  There are a bigger group of "staff" members I see that like to ignore the issues and let them continue.

Again I am trying to raise awareness that these things are happening and something should be done about it.  I posted my suggestions, and I am sorry we disagree.  I am not trying to force my opinions on anyone, but I am tired of people attacking other peoples opinions. 

[Dirktator 2,324]

Cooling off.

This entire thread is spinning out of control.

Return to the topic of the original poster or I will be forced to close this thread. This thread is not here to regurgitate past grievances.

[gshmails 536]

I have read every one of your posts, have you?  You knock down anyone who disagrees, and continue to spout RESPECT like you know what it is.  Calling people dense?  Telling us that we are missing the point?  Come on!  Respect is a two way street, and I do not care how upset you are about your issue.  You jumped on someone else's issue just to throw your own agenda into the shark tank.  Well some of us do respect the staff and their tireless efforts to keep this society running smoothly. 

Your proof is weak.  The issue was dealt with correctly, just not to your expectations.  When the staff told you this, you started to attack them as not being responsive to your satisfaction.  Tough! 

I am sorry you are so upset, but this is not worth all of you energy.

[Filasimo 1]

Momma always told me if I as isnt involved i as isnt should butt my nose in....i think thats a good idea for anyone itching to make a post who is not involved in this matter. thats the whole reason people get upset when people who do not have anything to do with the matter gets involved and further complicate things and it turns out into a flame war so i suggest people to stay out of it or this thread will end up closing bc comments are becoming destructive rather constructive