hkabat-forum-threads SimFox Construction & Research

[bixel 1,228]

That is totally badass and the textures are starting to look real good.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

Originally posted by: SimFox Is there a way around this? May be altering some numerical value somewhere will fool Lot Editor into thinking that the structure of different size then it actually is?quote>

What do you think how overhanging buildings are made?

[SimFox 804]

Oh, goodie!!!

T! Do you have a link to some tutorial on the matter??? I’ve searched forums with “overhanging” as search word but found only 2 threads and those do not have instructions on the matter… Or may be it is somewhere there and I plain don’t see it... Could it be??

[Jasoncw 11,949]

Make the box slightly smaller than the lot.  31.9, for example.

[SimFox 804]

Jason... yeah... I thought so... and it is simple enough solution when all you have is a single box or structure. But when you rendering a puzzle piece wouldn't it ruin everything? I mean wouldn’t those 0.1 seams be visible later when you plop pieces in game?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

That's why you simply make it 32*32 exactly, and after creating a desc for it, you open the desc with the iLive reade and set occupant size from 32*[height]*32 to e.g. 31.9*[height]*31.9. It's as simple as that.

The actual LODs remain unaffected by this manipulation. It's just not recommendable for growable structures because the occupant size property will also determine the size of the construction scaffolds.

[SimFox 804]

oh really!? Great!! But would 10 cm make such a difference for scaffolding?? So, apart from that there are no side effects, so to say??

[T Wrecks 10,210]

No, 10 cm not - and for landmarks, there is no scaffolding anyway unless you mod it into them (which would also be possible).

I just mentioned it because I once made the mistake to change the respective property already in the 3D model which I used to create all desc files. I did that in view of the overhanging version and sinply fooled the LE into thinking the building was 1x1 metres in footprint. Then, when I saw how the growable version appeared, I realized -too late!- that I had done something rather stupid. Since then, I know better and stick to the desc files for modding this property.

[SimFox 804]

Step ahead... two steps back... the nature of progress

I’ve tried to render a test of MHV last night just to take what I’ve already done into the game to judge the over all scale and some such. Render itself went smooth and took 3 hours 45 min to complete (this isn’t the entire complex though – just 4 towers ( out of 10 of entire complex or of 5 of phase I or II) plus base is missing… well all thing without night lighting should take about 6 hours to get done. One problem may become memory. This amount took 1,4Ggb of it. So I’m afraid that entire complex could hit the memory allocation limit on 32 bit systems. Anyway as I’ve said render went fine but the result is screwed like my CandyGarden was screwed and some other people’s renders were screwed – those people using MAX. Here is a picture showing what I mean by it.

As you see the mapping doesn’t match the orientation of those LODs. They are sort of turn 90o vs each other. I think I have finally understood the reason for this and it is rather simple and obvious one… Scripts always treat first render as particular view (don’t remember right now which one, but that’s not terribly important). In normal circumstances this would be the same as views Cameras are set on. But when you were using rig cameras to simulate preview in MAX and left then on “wrong” view render takes that one as a starting point. Result is that rendered images assigned to the WRONG views! People were suggesting to fix this by merging all the data to the new file and re-render form there. But that means another render and in case of large structures – a lot of time. This solution works fine – naturally since cameras are now in synch with Script set view. But there is more simple “solution”, prevention in fact – before hitting the EXPORT button click on RESET LIGHTS & CAMERAS in parameters roll-out of BAT. This may save you screwed render and then merging and re-rendering thing all over!

[bixel 1,228]

Yeah..I always take the camera out of the xref scene before a render that way the script will run fine with no collisions. If you are like me you may want to start to make some decision on where you are going to split the complex..otherwise you will have a huge crime rating due to the LOT size bug...also you should try considering a semi-normal render especially if you are running out of memory..I have been using default camera set-ups for most of everything lately with the except of my pencil towers and I think they are fine renders for SC4...remember you are not making a super high res render for a portfolio just a building for a game..

I like what you have done with the materials and windows but if you try too hard to make everything 'realistic' you may end up with a building that does not fit aestitically with the game content...like you palm park which was very nice btw was too advanced compared to the art direction of the rest of the game content.

Your towers are really really nice and I am looking forward to seeing this released. Save the super duper renders for portfolio shops or industry examples I know I will do the same thing for my portfolio of renders.

[hamsterTK 93]

I love the very subtle shiny tiles, I hope that can at least somewhat come through in simcity

[SimFox 804]

HamsterTK: it will. WYSIWYG!  Or to be precise here is w´hat you'tt get -  this is capture of eactuall export render at zoom5. As you an see effect is there.

Bixel... oh, my frined don't even start me on that...

EDIT ... got it exported

[bixel 1,228]

lookin good! they are very tall....how many floors? MetroCity II is 44 I think.

[SimFox 804]

Well Metro Harbor View is 48 in total, with Base that is... I'm not sure though how in this particular development do they deal with number 4. Actually hearing that ANYTHING in HK could be 44 is hard to believe since that would be like Double Death!! or more precise DeathDeath. So you may find than many towers wouldn't have any floors number with 4 in then, that in your complex there are towers 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 Floors 11, 12, 13, 15, ...32, 33, 35... the problem is that this isn’t universal though. As much as I understand this 4-death think is from Mandarin and Cantonese, spoken in HK, has different pronunciation, in fact it is the whole different language...   These towers are just 48x same basic floor, not tech floor, yet and no difference lower floors and upper once but those in this case are absolutely marginal and I believe could be omitted, Complex also hasn’t got any penthouses like Chelsea does. So all I’ve done is to add Tech (or Refuge as it officially called in HK) floor and ten reduce count to 43!! And add the base. Of course the base would add to the height since base floors are normally taller then residential ones (at least those where clubhouses are and the space between podium and the tower 1st floor is at least 2-3 times the height of a floor – probably even more. But all in all this would be the height.. this is why I was asking you about what floor height you are using. You say 4m… this tower have 3,5 – this is derived from 2,7 (2,5 official floor height + 0,2 for the floors themselves )x1,3 . But as I was saying earlier on the taller building this 1,3 multiplier starts to be very significant all in all it makes difference of 60m on 200m tower. And as I remember you or Paul were saying that you tested the height of known landmarks like Bank of China and said that it is real life size without any multiplier… so this is a dilemma - what to do height wise…

Here are two thumbs to the big pictures (quite big!!!) those will give much better perception of proportions and how it look in the environment, since picture in my previous message looks way to 2 dimensional. BTW don’t you think that color look somewhat odd??

One thing to notice about this complex is that all towers are rotated 45o, so in effect practically ALL YOU SEE is actually a shadow side… this naturally has an effect on colors, since light in shadows isn’t the same as one on the sunny side. And towers being of sort of yellowish tint turn greenish… I wonder if I have to do something about it?? What do you, fair folk, think??  I was also thinking of how to approach night lighting and for entire complex – which I will still do (at least I’ll try to) nightlights for the apartment units are I’m afraid out of question… at least on 32bit setup. It would necessarily be all that beneficial visually too… And since I can't use default night windows either (at least I think I can not – there is something after Max 7 that makes render crash) I would have to use night libraries… I would have to make textures myself and since it is just like texturing any other object this may have one beneficial effect – there wouldn’t be need to keep all the widows as separate object for render!! Enough to have just two – those that light up and those that wouldn’t. Number of objects in a scene is one of the BIGGEST problems and bogs down render a major way! On the other hand using those night libraries is somewhat cumbersome… Had anyone had any experience with them??

[SimFox 804]

First sketch of the base... Not textures or materials, just a study of the size and proportions...





and here is a fullsized version:

[SURUMI 2]

Great progress, SimFox.

[Sim shady 12]

your towers look excellent, cant wait to see how the base comes out! just wondering how big this intire lot is gonna be b/c it looks massive and epic.

i see you said you rendered a 32 x 32.  wow.

[SimFox 804]

Thanx Surumi.

Sim Shady: no, not that large... it actually not THAT big. The entire complex should fit on 16x5 lot

[Skyfire2275 23]

Looks good so far SimFox... keep up the good work.

[Gecko_2006 1]

Droolable as usual.

[bixel 1,228]

very very very nice Simfox...excellent planning on the base...you might want to troll some street ads or even online ones to use as billboards that are so commonly featured on the sides of these megamall residential complexs. Question..is this going to be LM only or will it grow? You should talk with T Wrecks and see what he thinks about his recent experiments with his 'Lot Security Force'.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I might as well share my experience here: The building does work as a police station, but without the slider, it doesn't get any funds. Since it doesn't have any civic jobs either, there is no danger of a strike, all that can happen is that you get a message concerning an underfunded police dept, and this message will direct you to the building. Then again, I had to really pay attention to the news ticker to catch this message at all, and that was in the Rush Hour Tutorial town where not much is going on, unlike in a huge town.

The police effect? Well, in the end I wasn't even sure if there was any. A small improvement maybe, but not a breakthrough, and more will not be compatible with growables.

For landmarks, you could of course mod the thing as a police station in the first place and try to move it to the landmark menu. Then you'd have a landmark with a police query UI.

@SURUMI: Sorry your question somehow slipped under the carpet - a super-high-strength police department might work - I am yet to test that, though. And the basic problem remains: A police station with a small radius would have to be placed right next to a rather tall building, which can look stupid. And if our super police department has a larger radius, it will be a ridiculous cheat... that bug really sucks.

[bixel 1,228]

darn bugs!!!!! maybe they should open source the program and we can make a patch for it...or dig it open and make a modified exe...I know that sounds like a crack but it might be doable.

[edit] you guys should look here for the crime issue..

https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=22&threadid=82457&enterthread=y

tchao713 recommended Buggi's Crime Simulator Mod to solve some crime-to-LOT-size issues. we should prolly check this out for ourselves and/or recommend in the readme for megalots to use this.

[SURUMI 2]

Originally posted by: T Wrecks

@SURUMI: Sorry your question somehow slipped under the carpet - a super-high-strength police department might work - I am yet to test that, though. And the basic problem remains: A police station with a small radius would have to be placed right next to a rather tall building, which can look stupid. And if our super police department has a larger radius, it will be a ridiculous cheat... that bug really sucks.quote>

 

No Problem, thanks for answering.

You can put one or two parks or an Subway-Station between your building and the police station.

But in general, you are right.

An Super Police Station is a cheat. Yes Sir, but on the other hand, how will you name the creating of a (for example) Tung Chung Crescent who contains two time more criminals than Alcatraz ? It's  a (negative) cheat, too...isn't it ?

I think, SC4 put you sometimes into a situation where compromisses are a must.

[T Wrecks 10,210]

True. The thing with that crime bug, though, is that it is a local phenomenon that's restricted to the lot, and Buggi's crime simulator is a mod that affects the entire region, so your approach of a super-strength police station is still closer to a "counter-cheat" because it is also rather local. Currently I don't have the time and nerve to test, but I guess such a police station might be a way to go. Maybe we'd need an appropriate BAT for it, though... *nudge*

[SimFox 804]

Has anyone any idea how does lot generate crime?? Is it something written into the LOTs exemplars of does game generate crime for a LOT based on it's size??

If game does that is it based on total area of the LOT or on the individual dimentions, eg will 4x9 lot generate seame amount of crime as 6x6?

[T Wrecks 10,210]

The crime effect is not caused in the lot exemplar, I guess it's hard-coded somewhere in the game. And I have no idea if e.g. the surface of the lot counts, or if it is its longest side. That would be another interesting test - see if a 3x20 lot would exhibit roughly the same amount of crime as a 10x6, or 4x9 vs. 6x6 as you mentioned. However, since crime is not constant, but oscillates all the time, it would probably take a radical difference to test.

[SURUMI 2]

Originally posted by: T Wrecks  Currently I don't have the time and nerve to test, but I guess such a police station might be a way to go. Maybe we'd need an appropriate BAT for it, though... *nudge* quote>

 

We can ask ill tonkso if he's interested to pimp his glassy cop station.

https://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?id=11712

[T Wrecks 10,210]

I guess that one is no longer up to Dan's standards, if you look at more recent stuff by him. I dunno, is there any particular look you would expect for a Hong Kong police department at all?

[SURUMI 2]

*ups* sorry. Didn't recognized that it was from 2005.

Particular look....hm.

Should be modern, glass-concrete/steel mix, etc.

Of course, we can make a highrise like as one of bixel monsters. (just kiddin').

But wait.

I remember, that I have seen elsewhere that HK (?) maybe Shanghai get a new police station.

Okay. I'll try to find the pic. Than we will see.

See you later.

Edit: sh*t, I recognized that we are shredding SimFox' thread.

Maybe we should discuss this in our general discussion sub ??

Just a suggestion.

bye