Boston Central Artery/Tunnel Project (Big Dig)

[blahdy 21]

I see, thanks for the info.

Update to Vent Building #5:

South side building superstructure slowly starting to take shape -- still farrrr from completion (about 11% done).

[toxicpiano 125]

Can't wait for that piece! One of the tunnels we have in London (which travels under the millenium dome) has ventilation which looks like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Blackwall_tunnel_towers_1.jpg

Pretty unattractive eh?

[SC4BOY 21]

Originally posted by: Swamper77 Blahdy,

The crash ... due to attempting to place the Onramp Puzzle Pieces (the single-sided ramps) near the transit-enabled lots. quote>

I was quite aware of this problem from reading posts, but have never encountered it in game. I didn't realize it was so touchy.. By "near" I expected it to mean touching or within a tile or so.. It is true what I was placing ramps, butI was several tiles away when I got the crash... Guess I'll just have to expand my "danger zone"  

Actually I'm releaved to find that that is the problem.. I thought it was something else.

[HandsOff 0]

As always, I am only discovering everything late, still, here's a thought or two: First off, the idea is absolutely brilliant, but I already said that elsewhere. Next a suggestion vis-a-vis further development: Goldiva at the SFTB site (I believe) created the just as splendid Electronic Toolbooth; a far more elegant version of Maxis' original. Except I did not find a one-way or highway version. That said, wouldn't it make sense to incorporate Goldiva's "Mautstelle" with the exit and on ramps? After all, reforming city traffic to that extent is costly, and the city coffers could use the tolls (should be at least double the original).

One thing I tried, but seem to fail, was to use on ramps only, on both sides of the water, as a kind of NYC Holland Tunnel. But even after several months the traffic query showed 0 usage. Only after I connected a highway tunnel entrance & higheway did some traffic show up. But Sims seemed to be reluctant to use it. Could NAM have anything to do with this?

[SC4BOY 21]

Why would you use on-ramps if you aren't using highways? There are several versions including ones that you can just connect one-ways to.. these would, IMO pretty much be the same as an "onramp only" highway connection. I use the highway version and can hardly beat the sims off of it.. they are jamming it given that the city is tiny.. under 10000 pop. I'm getting like 600 cars and 1800 busses swarming to the highway and ramps plus 1000's jamming my new High Speed Rail toy I'm playing with..

[Andreas Roth 629]

I played with the lots a bit, and they look really great indeed. I haven't tried the functionality yet, but here are some suggestions for the next release. Some of them might be rather obvious, but I list them anyway. @all: This is not meant as an attempt to lower blahdy's work, but as constructive criticism to make the final product even better.

1. shadows: The ugly shadows are caused by every structure that goes below the ground. You can avoid them by defining the models as props (like it was done with the ground highway transition), set the "is ground model" property to "false" (0x00), and use a resource key type 0 property as "invisible" building.

2. tunnel transition: There's an odd yellow patch next to all tunnel entrances; I figure it's caused by the lights that are in the tunnel, and the color change on the road surface (darker grey) is the shadow the tunnel portal casts. I guess it would be better to get rid of the yellow patch alltogether, since it looks really strange where the bright yellow meets the shadow.

3. colors: Unfortunately, there's a color shift between how the textures look like in gmax and in the game. Gascooker posted a great tutorial how to overcome this color shift, it can be found in the Omnibus. Ideally, the rendered part of the Maxis highway should have the same grey as the in-game highways. I don't mind the whithish color of the concrete, but the colors look a bit bleached in general.

4. road transition: The line painting of the road on the tunnel transition doesn't match with the width of the (oneway) roads in the game. If you don't want to change the width of the model itself, you could paint some curved lines like the ones I added (yellow). This would support the visual transition a lot, esp. since the color change on the surface is rather strong.

5. menu icons: The menu icons are a bit blurry, you should apply an unsharp mask when you create the 44x44 pixel images. I also think some icons on them would be better for easy distinction, because it's hard to see which icon is for on-ramps and which one for off-ramps when you don't read the descriptions.

6. ploppable signs: Obviously, the ploppable signs have to be rendered with the adjusted blue color, and they should be modded properly (better icons, menu description etc.)

EDIT: @HandOff:

I made a ground highway version of Goldiva's electronic toll bridge once, and it would be easy to create one for oneway roads as well - you only have to put the matching prop on a lot, add some road textures and transit enable it. Regarding your NYC Holland Tunnel: You have to use one ONramp as tunnel entry and one OFFramp as tunnel exit, otherwise there won't be any traffic, since all tunnel entrances that are only 1 tile wide are designed as oneway tunnels only (see my picture above, the two on the left are onramps, and the two on the right are offramps).

[Dippit 0]

Wow this is amazing work! I can't believe this is finally possible!

But just one question...can they be used as a neighbour connection?

Thanks!

[SC4BOY 21]

Of course they can be a neighbor connection.. Just chose the "entry/exit" set you wish to use, place it with the "subway" section facing the map edge, add the subway section with "yes" to allow connection. Go to the other map and lay the corresponding subway link to the "entry/exit" elements you wish to use.. To SC4 it will simply look like a subway connection.

[toxicpiano 125]

I fully concur with andreas roth, those would be good improvements to have for the next version.

[simzebu 20]

I have one small problem, and I think it's NAM related. Most of the ground-to-underground transitions in my city are at yellow or red congestion, but the highways and subways are both perfect green. I think this is because I have the 5x capacity, 10x speed, 10x commute NAM plugin. How could I change the capacities of the transitions myself?

[blahdy 21]

Answering Questions & Suggestions:

Andreas Roth:  Thanks!  I concur with all of your suggestions with exception of the odd yellow patch on on/off-ramps.  The yellow patch is there because in real tunnels, they put some yellow lights at the entrance of the portal (I think they did it to provide a smooth light transition when going suddenly dark from outside to inside, because white flourescent lights are easily overwhelmed by outside light).  We'll take these suggestions for update releases.

Also thank you for taking the time to illustrate your suggestions, they are really helpful in getting straight to the point.

simzebu:  You can try increasing capacities of the tunnel portals, but we tried that as well and for some reasons Sims would not use the tunnels at all when capacity was made too high.

10,000 capacity is probably a reasonable figure (which is what it is now).  But remember that in the real world Big Dig in Boston, the tunnel system is not the only thing that's supposed to ease congestions, because it never would (there's just too much traffic that even adding one more lane would not fix the traffic problem).  They've done improved urban planning with overall on/off-ramp design: for example, if you drive I-93 northbound toward Boston from southern Mass., you will be able to get off on the first exit to get right onto Rose Kennedy Greenway if you want to reach the downtown (Rose Kennedy Greenway is the new park-based avenue they are building on top of the tunnels, where once the ugly elevated via-duct used to stand).  And many people who come to Boston for work from southern Mass. take this first exit -- this alleviates many traffic in the tunnels, mostly keeping them to transit traffic that need to get through the Boston downtown.  You could try a similar type of urban planning as well as an experiment (may be I should do an experiment CJ to test this theory) and see how it works well for Sim's.

[Andreas Roth 629]

@blahdy: I know what light you're talking about, but I don't object the yellow patch itself so much, but more the the sharp edge it produces where the tunnel shadow begins. Assuming we look at it during daytime, we wouldn't see any artificial light on the road surface outside the tunnel at all, but only reflected sunlight. Would it be possible to move the patch inwards a bit, so it's located entirely in the area with the shadow?

@simzebu: blahdy already mentioned some problems, but if you want to try it yourself, open the lot with the Exemplar Editor in SC4Tool (or any other modding program), click on the building exemplar file, locate the "Transit Switch Traffic Capacity" and change it to the desired value.

[ardecila 125]

Yes, Andreas - for some reason, when capacity was set to 20000, sims would not use the tunnels. Don't ask why, I couldn't tell you.  As for the highway texture being too light - I like it that way.  It eases the transition between the Maxis highways and blahdy's concrete.

Now, for some more modeling development.  Maybe some of you will recongize this, but it's our newest addition to the Big Dig/Tunnel system.

If enough people like this, I may do the Manhattan-side vent for the Holland Tunnel.

[HandsOff 0]

After a few more experiments I noticed my error. Meanwhile something altogether different has happend: the main H-Way to S-Way Tunnel entrance disappeard. The blank, blue placement rectangle is there, and all on/off ramps are normal, but the surface structure disappeared completely. I suspect it to have something to do with my installation of the new Hi-Speed ELR -haven't been back to the PC yet to test this, nut its the only BAT I installed since installing the Boston Dig.. BTW: Holland Tunnel works fine now, far better than hard to handle bridges..

Originally posted by: Andreas Roth @HandOff:

I made a ground highway version of Goldiva's electronic toll bridge once, and it would be easy to create one for oneway roads as well - you only have to put the matching prop on a lot, add some road textures and transit enable it. Regarding your NYC Holland Tunnel: You have to use one ONramp as tunnel entry and one OFFramp as tunnel exit, otherwise there won't be any traffic, since all tunnel entrances that are only 1 tile wide are designed as oneway tunnels only (see my picture above, the two on the left are onramps, and the two on the right are offramps).quote>

[blahdy 21]

Great work there ardecila.  That Brooklyn-Bat. tunnel vent building is beautiful

Here is a small update to South Boston Vent Building #5.... starting to take little shape but still far from done (a lot of details will be placed on it once superstructure is completed).

[mightygoose 92]

awesome work guys

[mightygoose 92]

awesome work guys

[Fraz86 0]

I have one question that hopefully someone more knowledgeable than myself regarding pathfinding can answer. As I understand it, when sims decide how to get from home to work, they "roll a dice" so to speak to determine what method of transportation they want to use (car, mass transit, or fastest available). For instance, a high wealth sim has a 10% chance of using mass transit, an 80% chance of using only their car, and a 10% chance of using the fastest means of transit available, whatever form that may take. So, because the Big Dig converts car traffic to subway traffic (and subway is a form of mass transit), does that mean that a sim who wants to use only their car will avoid the tunnel system? If so, it seems that this may have particularly adverse implications for the wealthy sims commuting to their downtown offices (since they love their cars so much). Regardless, I will definitely continue to use your excellent work, but this is important to me because if this is true, then it might be important to build redundant surface highways in busier areas for the sims who are too stuck up to use the tunnels. Thanks in advance for any insight that anyone can share on this topic.

[blahdy 21]

Fraz86: Since I'm not a modder, I can't answer the essence of your question, but one workaround that you can do is, create an urban setup like in Boston. You could have a feeder-off-ramp before the tunnel transition that will connect to a surface avenue that's surrounded by high wealth parks and offices sitting above the tunnel system. This way high wealth sims trying to get into their offices in downtown will get on that avenue, while low wealth and transit traffic trying to get thru your city will use the tunnel. That should give you a hopefully (if it works, like I said I have to do an experiment to see how it works out with Sims) a pretty good controlled traffic.

[TommyMayor 0]

Hi this is my first post to simtropolis forums, so be nice to me please. I am experimenting with the wonderful new big dig, bats, and I am having several problems. 1. I am running sim city 4 RH on a Mac and I am getting the capacity of "1" in all of the query boxes when I am placing this highway system in my region. (is this the same bug I have read of in the forums regarding custom stations?) Can anything be done about this? 2. I am unsure if I am even understanding how to implement this new system? How am I sure I have hooked up the subway to the transition lots? Do I need two separate subway lines for east and west? Could pictures be posted on the forum as to how to set this system up, as I found the ones included in the PDF very small and unclear. Let me say however that when I have got this working this will be a great asset to my region Thanks to blahdy for creating it!

[blahdy 21]

TommyMayor: welcome to ST;  The included User Guide has a sample picture/network config that you can look at to see how it's done.  take a look at it, if you still have questions then feel free to ask.

---

Building superstructure: 33% complete.

Once the structure is fully completed, then the real fun begins: installing lots of details (we're talking even red light bulbs at the top of the smoke stacks).

[Ramona Brie 121]

Ahh...sweet!!

[+Guest]

This is turning out better then the real thing.Thanx

[USA Patriot 49]

I can't read pdf on how to use it, and I've looked all over. How do you connect this underground tunnel to the other underground tunnel opening? How do I make roads underground to connect.

[HandsOff 0]

Switch to subway mode then drag a subway tunnel from an onramp to its opposite offramp - that gives you one lane; then do the reverse for the other lane. I just learned it myself.

Originally posted by: USA Patriot I can't read pdf on how to use it, and I've looked all over. How do you connect this underground tunnel to the other underground tunnel opening? How do I make roads underground to connect.quote>

PS: The error I reported earlier is resolved: the main tunnel entrance disappears when a mod (forgot the originator) that changes the depth of underground layers is used.

[Andreas Roth 629]

@Fraz86: I haven't thought of this, but your thoughts make sense. As blahdy said, it could be useful to run some tests on this issue. Query some R-$$$ buildings and see if the sims are using the tunnels or not. Generally speaking, the issue is only of theoretical value, though. Any city in SC4 will have more than one connection between the residential areas and the commercial or industrial areas, so when the vast majority of R-$ and R-$$ sims is using the tunnels, the other roads are less congested, leaving enough room for R-$$$ sims and buses (we shouldn't forget those, since they won't use the tunnels as well).

@TommyMayor: This is a bug that only appears on a Mac. For some reason, the "Transit Switch Traffic Capacity" property has a default value of 0 REPs (tech-speak, I only mention it for ardecila who did the modding), although it holds a value. Wnen editing the lot with SC4Tool, it creates a property with 1 REP, which is "correct" and also is accepted by the game as proper setting - however, only the Windows version works fine, the Mac version doesn't understand it properly. For the final release, I suggest to set the REP count back to 0, this will fix the faulty behavior on the Mac.

@USA Patriot: You have to install the Adobe Reader for viewing PDF files. If you don't want to install it because of the size or if you think that Adobe is evil, try Foxit Reader, it's free and a very small download (less than 1 MB). Hint to blahdy: I figure that HTML is the better choice for a readme file, since every operating system can display HTML files by default.

[SIMMANIA 4]

This is really AMAZING ! I love this a lot! But I won't use it for one thing (and lot of Snifff', this is really sad), the colors of the road is making too much contrast with my black highways (I think it's the euro-mod highway or something like that that makes my highways darker).

It would be REALLY COOL if you could make a version compatible with euro-highways (black alsphat highway) mod, I'm not talking of the bridge (because it would be too much work) but just the tunnel entrances and exits). Thank you, and you can study my proposition!

Continue your work, this is a complete revolution to the actual Sim City 4 game ! ! !

[blahdy 21]

@Simmania: the concrete road surface is used (it's SCC) in real-life version to cut maintenance cost.

I am however working on getting an SCC texture that has tire marks and/or wears on it so it looks a bit darker in lane areas agnd also looks like it had been used.  It is actually realistic for it to change from asphalt texture to concrete texture, as happens often in real life.  Thus, there are no plans to change the tunnel boat road surface to asphalt, as the current presentation is very realistic, and last I checked, people seem to love SC4 more when it's more realistic than fictional.

There's are new SCC concrete textures here that I am toying with, so far they look even more realistic than existing textures right now.

[USA Patriot 49]

Thank you for the help.

[Andreas Roth 629]

Ah, I almost forgot: I found a small glitch in the query windows, the background image seems to be tiled a bit. You can fix this by lowering the coordinate values of the second IGZWinGen definition by one (see picture below). I was also wondering why there are two PNG files with different IDs, although only one is used. Are the others placeholders for later?