Burj Khalifa

[gerAndi 29]

looks great

die harte arbeit hat sich definitiv gelohnt ^^

[mcarch 15]

Holy Moly! That looks SWEET! *droolz*

[Gecko_2006 1]

Beautiful glass! It's perfect! Can't wait to see the completed plaza area!

[SimFox 802]

Nice to see some progress here!

Since original render were done some time had passed and there are now new ways to export... If you want to see what I'm talking about take a look here  -- CLICK ME -- this is Paul's fantastic model of Lippo Center which I've rendered with new setup and new materials. It will still take some time to sort out some details like night lighting and some such in new setup which I'll try to do as soon as I get some free time yearly next year.

[Skyfire2275 23]

Yeah! It's nice to see progress.

Keep up the good work!

[JDRCRASH 53]

@Andisart: WOW, I can't wait!  You really over did it!

You see, I actually didn't know you were going to do the WHOLE complex, so good going!

But the Burj Dubai compared with other buildings in that picture looks kinda small compared to Skyscraper's.  

Still, despite that, its absolutly stunning!

@SimFox:  I just checked on that link you gave us to Paul's project and boy, its just amazing.  Its complex shape shows that you've put alot of effort on rendering the twin tower structure.

[bixel 1,223]

Wow that base is amazing..obviously the tower will be a prop - correct? Then you will be able to place it correctly aligned to the base?

[tommiej 0]

really nice!! i like the way you're making the foundation!! looking forward for a new update

[GMT 389]

that's an awesome base for an awesome building.

if it matches the original design, it's just wonderful.

[SimFox 802]

JDCrash: well it is because Skyscraper just went and made if almost kilometer high... It is a bit of a mystery why, but there you go... this one is more accurately scaled, although scale in SC4 is a huge, complex and messed up subject on it's own right.

When Andisart will be done with modeling I could try to give the entire complex same material makeover as Lippo has got. I first have to finish it though.. But I'm pretty sure I've got some time and experience with Lippo will be invaluable for this project as well. Only worry is memory requirements for something of this scale. It may well go over 3Gb limit for one application existing in 32bit Windows.

[AndisArt 2,066]

Thanks 4 your comments everyone

@SimFox: I looked at Paul's thread and I was totally stunned! Fantastic work! I'm just in love with the way the glass and water looks. You continue to amaze me with your Max experiments! I would love you to give it a shot to give new material to the Burj! There's plenty of water at the plaza and for the windows: I'm ok with my texure looking at it from the distance since I like the fake raytracing effect I gave it, but looking at it at zoom 5 is too plain. So that sounds very exciting to me if you try to do something with it :-)   For rendering: I don't have to worry about polygon count that much right? Because with all the trees the base plaza has already 1.5 millions...

@bixel: Well, one of the two, the plaza or the tower needs to be a prop for sure! I'm not sure yet wich is better. Am I right presuming that making the tower a prop would result in a plain disappearance when bulldozing it?  I would prefer the plaza to just disappear and the tower to crash. That's a minor thing of course. Something I was wondering: What is this "crime bug" regarding massive lot sizes you mentioned in Paul's thread?

@JDCrash: As SimFox says, Skyscrapers version is 1000 meters. Mine is at around 800 which is the current expected height for the tower (contractors have revealed the number 808 meters, still only time will tell the final height since the steel top can easily be extended). For the base I think a 8x8 lot housing only the tower wouldn't do it justice. For me it wasn't a question to do the complex plaza.

Next update next year ;-)

[MayorTim 16]

Wohoo! Progress!

I've always been a fan of progress.

[bixel 1,223]

Crime BUG!!!! Well it occurs with exceptionally large lots. Unfortunately I do not think even Maxis realized they have it. But you will notice lots like the University, the airport, or custom lots like goober mall, tonkso mall, my Tung Chung Cresent, Taipei all have huge crime. This seems to occur only on functional lots not Landmarks. T Wrecks was trying to solve the issue by adding Police Properties to the lot...thus making it multi-functional. The only problem was that the police information could not be accessed...he was experimenting with my Liberte a 9x8 Lot and kept getting notices of Police Department strikes coming from the Liberte, lol, but couldn't do anything to adjust it like the finance scale. I think he's worked out a solution but you may want to get his attention about how he has been experimenting with this.

[SimFox 802]

Andisart:

Well polygon count is a tricky subject...

1. First of all 1,000,000 polygons in 1 object ain't same as 1,000 polygons in 1,000 objects. that later is MUCH worse for the MAX performance (first of all in view ports) and also during the render, but here we come for second tricky point:
2. When rendered all the polygons that are not visible from that particular camera are just culled – knocked out by the rendering engine and naturally do not add anything to the render time. This is normal situation. This said it could be somewhat different on case by case situation due to some particular material setup. But this could be disregarded for now.
3. Another key point, especially where memory requirements are concerned is the nature of those polygons. 1,000 copies of object of 1,000 polygons ain’t same as 1,000 instances of an object of 1,000 polygons each. Although in both cases you’ll have 1,000,000 polygons in your scene memory requirements for the second case (with instances) will be GREAT deal smaller – actually closer to the requirements for just 1,000 polygons. So, rule of thumb - when possible INSTACE things!
4. Memory requirements should NOT be associated with the amount of physical RAM you have in your machine. When MAX will run out of it Windows will create some Virtual Ram for it on free space of your HDD. So, here we come to the KEY component of this puzzle – Windows itself. Problem is that normally 32bit version of Windows can not assign more then 2Gb of memory (this is total – physical and virtual) to one application. So you could have 20Gb of RAM in your PC it wouldn’t6 make any difference in this case. When Max will hit that 2Gb limit you’ll get message saying something that Max couldn’t allocate this and this much memory and application will shut down. There is a little hack that allow you to lift this limit from 2Gb to 3Gb, but that’s it! For 32Bit Windows that is be it XP or Vista or what ever else. Solution would be to move to 64Bit Windows – there this limit is SOOO huge that at present there is NO point even to think of it – there is NO WAY you could have so much RAM or HDD space as to hit the wall. This means that scene of Virtually ANY size could be rendered!

So that’s about polygons.

Another rule of thumb – keep number of OBJECTS in your scene to the minimum – whenever possible Attach them – so instead of having individual frame for each window – make it ONE object. This actually wouldn’t impend on your ability to manipulate it! Max will remember each part of being on it’s own and treat them as individual elements. But for overall performance of MAX it will have huge impact. You see Max is in part a database program- that’s how it stores all the information of every object in the scene. But it isn’t very good database program, so when size of the database grows performance suffers GREAT deal! So the less entries in database (individual objects) the better will performance be! Another thing – Max’s Viewport performance (in last couple of versions) would be MUCH better in Direct3D mode then in OpenGL, unless you have one of the PRO videocards like nVidia Quadra, or ATIs FireGL. That is VIEWPORT performance, but it will bare NO influence on the rendering speed!

[mightygoose 92]

yeah sources are starting to suggest its getting another final height boost, i been reading anything up to and including 1011m and bare minimum of 800... but coincedentally the real thing made it to 100 floors today and is the tallest structure in dubai....

[JDRCRASH 53]

@Simfox:Are you saying that with the 64 bit Windows, you can create a building of almost any size? If so, then i'm gonna buy that 64 bit windows!

[SimFox 802]

JDCRASH

What I'm saying is that 64bit version of Windows (ber it Windows XP, 2003 or Vista) doesn’t have limitations of 2/3Gb of memory space per application. They do have some but the number is sooo humongous that it at present could be easily regarded as limitless.

This said this isn't quite same as saying that you could create building of any size and here is why:

1. memory space allocation by OS is probably just one of the limiting factors. The software you\re using may have similar problems. For instance 32bit version of MAX even on +64bit windows wouldn’t\t be able to use more memory then on 32 bit Windows despite the fact that OS will allow it. 32bit nature of program simply doesn’t allow it to create/assign required number of addresses. So you would also need 64Bit version of MAX to go along.
2. But even if you’ve got 64bit Max (with all necessary plugins) current export process is still relying on GMAX in order to generate key component – CS4Model file/container. Ther isn’t 64bit version of GMAX and I seriously doubt will ever be. As much as I understand it is a dead application. Descrete gave up any development of it and is absorbed itself by Autodesk now. Turbosquid is just distribute GMAX but that’s about it. So don’t expect new versions of it ever.
3. but 64 bit isn’t just on issue with Gmax. Original was envisioned as sort of castrated version MAX and as such has limitations built in by design. For instance if doesn’t have independent rendering capabilities. Or to be precise capabilities are there, but render interface has been removed. So to get Gmax to render anything you need to script the rendering process – that is what BAT is – rendering and postprocessing script. Also I think in order to prevent people from using free GMAX instead of MAX that costs THOUSANDS by some smart ass would go and write appropriate script, it was decided to limit GMAX abilities to manage memory. This is my own speculation, but I came to this conclusion trying to render LODS for Burj Dubai. I have kept Task manager open and was sitting and steering (like Mexican steering frog of south SriLanka) at Gmax’s memory usage. And noticed that export was aways failing as soon as this usage reached some number – sorry don’t remember the exact number at anymore, but it was something like 400Mb. As you see the number is way below 2/3Gb what windows would allocate to it. So it must be Gmax own issue by some flaw or conscious decision of it’s makers. Later sound more realistic. Think of it this is a good choice when you want to overall promote your technology but at the same time to prevent people from using it without paying for anything complex as most commercial things would have to be.

So sorry for spoiling it for you, but at present I must say NO you can not render (for SC4 that is) building of ANY size by switching to 64bit environment/software. And that’s because there is a limit on how big your LODS could be to pass the GMAX export

But that may mean that on 64bit platform you can render building of almost any complexity! This would be only limited by MAX internal workings, it will be given as much memory space it would require (and as much as total physical memory in your PC plus free space in your HDDs). So incredibly complex geometry, huge textures huge number of lights with GI etc it all be helped great deal by 64bit environment.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I hope you don't mind me popping in for some comments on...

Demolition effects: As long as the property "is ground model" is set in a prop exemplar, the prop will show demolition effects just like a building.

The only aspect that matters is that if the tower is a prop, you will have to hover the mouse cursor over the lot/base to get the hover query to show and to be able to click into the full query window.

Crime Bug: Bixel already summed it up pretty well. However, I see a possible solution. Considering its enormous size, Burj Dubai is really not suitable for an RCI growable. This means that an overhanging lot is feasible. If you BAT the entire base and make it fit a rectangular lot seamlessly, the entire structure can be made to overhang e.g. a 5x4 core lot, which would not suffer from the crime bug. The disadvantage with BATted lots is that they don't display the shadows of other buildings that should fall on them.

[RippleJet 36]

Originally posted by: T Wrecks The only aspect that matters is that if the tower is a prop, you will have to hover the mouse cursor over the lot/base to get the hover query to show and to be able to click into the full query window.quote>

You can get the prop both to query and to hover query as the main building if you add the following two properties to the prop exemplar:

Query as main building: True

User Visible Name Key: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0

The trick that makes the hover query to work is to give the UVNK an address of zeroes.

EDIT: This was acknowledged by drew0718.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

That's massive! Good luck

[Urbandogg 0]

i like the shanghai world financial center.

[Urbandogg 0]

cool towers.

[SimFox 802]

Urbandogg: WOW... this is really one to behold! I mean did you read what this thread all about??

[Glenni 1,444]

you know fox...n00bs... Always will be there...

[NintendoMaster128 30]

After coming back as it looks almost two years later, I am still stunned by this tower. Maybe some day my interest in SimCity will be re-lit, and I will once again reinstall the game and contribute to these forums

Andy

[1q2q3q4q5q 0]

wow all these tall skyscrapers befor u no it we will hit the km mark!

i read about sydney and London needs to have some skyscrapers apart from the gherkin and canary wharf. I know there going to build the London bridge tower at 309 meters in 2010 but they need something taller like a 500 meter tall building. There needs to be a new competitor in the skyscraper race to the sky. Taiwan has the tallest building in the world at the moment a country which some people don’t know where it is!

london bridge tower

Union square phase 7, Hong kong, 484 meters

dubai pearl

kenny

[gerAndi 29]

that building what is supposed for london is so ugly...

I'm really a fan of the canary wharf but the guy who designed that monster should be shoot!

[storms991 0]

i think its a Beauty, but then again, it is also way out of place and too big for that section of London, It shouldn't be built South of the Thames, Canary Wharf or nothing.

[JDRCRASH 53]

@gerAndi: I think someone who enjoys to take pleasure in seeing someone killed is evil

[paulvmontfort 616]

a 500 meter skyscraper won't fit Londen.