SPAs Urbanist BAT Thread

[spa 968]

Twrecks: I'll call your reply Thanks for the feedback. First, on the windows. Part of the issue is of course SC4's angle, but the real life picture I also put up is a little deceptive. The angle I snapped it on exagerates the height a little bit. From a straight on front view, the windows don't appear quite as tall and narrow.

I did actually bat the details around the frame that you mentioned.

The issue is, with the vertical bands, the dark parts of the frame tends to get lost and the metal parts end up disappearing next to the white wall panels. If you squint carefully though, especially on the night view, you can kind of make them out, but it's really tough. There really isn't much room to scale things up without throwing off the relation to the other facade elements. I'm afraid this is just one of those items that didn't translate perfectly.

Fair enough on the lighting. I kind of like the warm glow, but you're right, it's not very office like. How about these paler lights?

Psander: Yeah the lighting is a tad warm. Check out the picture above for an alternative. It's never really a problem for me to reexport a model, especially not a small one like this. I actually deliberately left off the railing on the roof at the front. I included the safety railing at the back of roof where the ladders are hvacs are, but when I put the railing on the front, I found it distracted from the facade. It's another one of those moments where Sim City's viewing angle tends to distort the feel of a building. I decided nothing was lost by leaving them out.

Simbourgeois: Thanks. The POA will come along soon enough. Sometime in the next couple of weeks anyway.

Simfox: In game white is such a tough "colour" to get right. Pure white really isn't in the Maxis colour palette. You're right about the nightlights and I have an alternative available for consideration above, but when I look at the panels, to me they're about the same shade as a Maxis sidewalk texture. They fit into the game without being too strong and I think they match the facade and bricks well. I don't see any value in messing with them. What was your comments regarding the lights fixtures? I'm afraid I'm not following what you're getting at.

Aaron: Thanks

[psander5 195]

I actually deliberately left off the railing on the roof at the front. I included the safety railing at the back of roof where the ladders are hvacs are, but when I put the railing on the front, I found it distracted from the facade. It's another one of those moments where Sim City's viewing angle tends to distort the feel of a building. I decided nothing was lost by leaving them out.quote>

 

Well, I can't argue with that reasoning... so I'm happy!

The new lighting looks a lot more office-like.  It's far better in my opinion. 

[SimFox 802]

Originally posted by: spa

quote>

So am I `right in thinking that you don't use any vertical stretching for your models?

Originally posted by: spa

The issue is, with the vertical bands, the dark parts of the frame tends to get lost and the metal parts end up disappearing next to the white wall panels. If you squint carefully though, especially on the night view, you can kind of make them out, but it's really tough. There really isn't much room to scale things up without throwing off the relation to the other facade elements. I'm afraid this is just one of those items that didn't translate perfectly.

quote>

Well one solution would be

1. slightily thiken those bits,

2 make them slightly darker to preserve them

3. skip on "light metal all together, as it is to small to really be of any visual impact in BAT, yet it through off the entire perception

4.to have them extrude beyond the level of teh wall a bit more) actuall do they at all? or are they flash with it?)

Originally posted by: spa

Fair enough on the lighting. I kind of like the warm glow, but you're right, it's not very office like. How about these paler lights?

Simfox: In game white is such a tough "colour" to get right. Pure white really isn't in the Maxis colour palette. You're right about the nightlights and I have an alternative available for consideration above, but when I look at the panels, to me they're about the same shade as a Maxis sidewalk texture. They fit into the game without being too strong and I think they match the facade and bricks well. I don't see any value in messing with them. What was your comments regarding the lights fixtures? I'm afraid I'm not following what you're getting at.

quote>

Yes, white may be a tough color to reproduce, but not in this particular case, really. Toughness of white is due to the fact that tGMAX doesn't have any gamma correction/color mapping - so the lights affect everything in a linear fashion - just a little more and things get overblown, just a little less and they are too dark. But that little more or little less is totally angle to light dependent! So, it is mainly a problem when same material/color is at different angles to light. In your model it's not the case. All the panes are at the exactly same angle to lights, so you should be able to "tune" your "whites" pretty good. Once you get free of the cliché fear of "too bright" that is.

Also the shade of your white panels is nothing really like the shade of the pavement in front of the building, in either hue or brightness:

Here is what I think the white panels should look like to convey "whiteness", and it should be totally doable in GMAX. I've also included a little comparison of your white to the pavers in those two "boxes" on the left side picture. Gray on the left (bottom part is desaturated to show only brightness component) is from your white panels and on the right of it is the shade of the pavers I was referring to. As you can clearly see it is quite different in both hue and brightness.

Apart from not conveying "white", it totally throughs off contrast balance between white panels and brickwork. Look at this comparison from your own shot:

One thing about using this shot for BATing purposes. You have to remember that this shot is made against the sky - so your building is actually darker than it would be perceived by an eye of an observer - it is (the eye) capable of localized "exposure control", cameras use some gimmickry to fake that, but it is still miles away from what the eye see.

As for the lights... well all I wanted to say is that they shine not to the direction they are supposed to. Light fixtures like that are a variant of a spot - they will not produce that kind light spot on the wall they are mounted on. Particularly without living any light at all there where they are suppose to shine - like in your model.

Of course it all could be dismissed as a nit picking, but you're already at such a level that these details are of matter, I believe.

[spa 968]

Psander: Glad you like it. Thanks for the feedback.

Simfox: I don't have a formula for vertical streatching if that's what you're getting at. I don't set out with a ruler and figure out the building I'm making should be x meters tall and then scale up at the end to compensate for SC4's viewing angle. I simply pick an element that has a pretty defined scale, like a door and I move outward from that. I eyeball and preview render and check against the accepted standards for floor heights (4-5 meters for commercial, extra for the ground floor) as I go. This method doesn't produce perfect replicas, but it will result in a building that fits into the game without being squashed.

You were right about the white panels. I liked the look of your mock-up more than my preview render so I went back and made the whites brighter. Check it out.

Regarding the window frames, the outer black frame is 0.05 in from the panel and the inner metal frame is flush with the panels. When I was adjusting, I tried turning off the metal texture and made them all the same dark colour as the surrouding frame, but it made things too strong. In the end, I just opted to darken the metal frame texture. The combination of darkening it plus whitening the panels makes them stand out a little bit more. If you look closely, there are now a few windows where you can see the frames.

On the lights, I edged them down a bit. The lights now don't shine above the fixtures. The bulb in the fixture now also turns on as an all white nightmap, but it's practically invisible because of the small size in most instances. Short of scaling up all the light fixtures, that's going to stay as is.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. It made a difference in this one.

[Montcalm 1]

Dear M. Spa,

I write to you with some emotion, as your work is like the wreckless dolphin who drag me down the bottomless depth of SC4 underworld, once again... Breathless !

Thus as a massive fan of your design, I try to have extensive use of your creations. As I will be soon settle in Canada, these work on me as an apetizer, sort of...

Anyway. I am facing a problem here, I can not explain, even though I have been going trough most forums to find a clew. Here is the thing : You are bats pop up quite well in the game, yet as they host few sims, they will shortly be overtaken by larger housings. the common way to avoid that is to mark them historical as the pop out. But here is the problem : when pointing and cliking the mousse on most of your bats, the stat's box won't open, resulting in the impossibility of keeping them step by step, to create friendly neighbourhood ! I thought at first it was because I decided to uninstall the LM files, but after having all of your folders properly plugged again, the bug keeps on.

So today, I am humbly turning to the master, in the hope he will give me some tips, in his magnanimity. Maybe this is a known bug... I realize this might not be the place for such question, but I went out of better idea...

A last world, though educated you must realize I am not a native speacker. I apologize for any inconvenience occured by my clumsy english writing. Hope you got the taste.

With best regards

Montcalm

[spa 968]

Montcalm: Thanks for your kind message. I play the game in the same way, the historic button is a vital tool! I know what your problem is. All of my buildings use one of several custom queries which are located inside the BSC Essentials dependency. You're probably missing that file which would be why you can't click on any of my buildings. The other possibility is you might have a really old version of the BSC Essentials file. It is an important dependency for many BSC lots and has been for a long time and it periodically gets updated and added to, so you may have an old version that predates my files. Anyway, whatever the case, go to the link below at SC4Devotion and install the file. If you're not a member of SC4Devotion you'll have to register. Once you have the file, everything should work.

https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=443

[spa 968]

I have something different today, progress shots rather than completed drafts. My new project is probably the finest federal building in Atlantic Canada, the Dominion Public Buiding in Downtown Halifax.

In the picture, you can see some of my other bat projects, the Bank of Nova Scotia to the left and just behind the tower in the pixalated distance on the Dartmouth side of the harbour, Marine House. The Public Building is a rarity in Atlantic Canada, a large Art Deco "skyscrapper." The Public Building was constructed in the 1930s as Depression era stimulus project to be the main federal building in Halifax. The Post Office occupied the ground floor and to this day, the Public Building is also known as the Old Post Office Building. For 30 years, until the bank towers were built in the 1960s, the Public Building was Halifax's tallest building which is why it's also sometimes referred to as "Halifax's original skyscrapper." The Public Building is graced with giant stone seahorses, dolphins and other marine themed decorations. The lobby has remained intact with marble and brass post office wickets. One of the rare features on the inside is a marble dedication to Edward the 7th, rare because Edward was on king for so little time that few federal buildings were finished during his reign. The Public Building was added onto in the 1960s (side addition) and a major retrofit in 1993 added a glass atrium to make the 4th through 7th floor more usable for modern office space. In recent years, the building's tower was taken apart and restored. Unfortunately, modern fire regulations have meant that all the tower space, everything above the 7th floor, is unusuable and it's essentially purely decorative. The building provides space for Public Works and Government Services Canada.

So that's the Dominion Building, below is what I have so far.

I actually have a request for help, I'm having a lot of trouble getting the tower cap on. It's a very complex shape in that it rises up and bends inward towards the centre. It's not round and the pieces don't exactly link up, they have squarish edges. Any suggestions from experienced batters as to how you would tackle making this shape? Keep in mind I'm working in gmax. Below's an additional close-up of the tower's cap.

Any help would be appreciated. I have sunk my whole morning into trying to get it come together without success.

[SimFox 802]

You can make it with Lathe modifier.

1. Draw the accurate contour of the dome with line tool. I believe that wouldn't make any difficulty for you!

2. Drop Lathe modifier on top of it. Adjust the axis around which it "rotate the shape

3. Set segment number to 4 and un-check Smooth.

And there you have you basic shape. Form here is it just a matter of simple manipulation of the ready shape - convert to editable poly and chamfer/extrude needed edges as needed. FFD box modifier could be used to taper extruding edges on the top if teh dome...

Let me know if some specifics are unclear.

BTW beautiful building and nice looking model!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Lovely Spa, I can't wait to see the textures on the new building, it looks promising.

[danielcote 9]

Nice! I can't wait until they're released!!

[spa 968]

Simfox: Thanks for the advice. I was kind of hoping for something a little less labour intensive, but the lathe approached is what I went with and after 45 minutes of moving bits around I have a pretty good approximation of the dome. Thanks again.

Aaron: Thanks. It will be a while before I'm onto texturing. I actually need to take some more pictures on some cloudy saturday or something because the reference pictures I have are all way too bright (strong afternoon sun).

Daniel: It'll be a while yet. Maybe May as the Dominion Public Building and the POA are more complicated models that will take a few weeks each to complete. They will be released though in the next few months.

 

So I'm still working on the Dominion Public Building. Thanks to advice from here and on the BSC private board, I was able to fix my dome problem. I ended up using a lathe, a marker box and then moving points around. Time consuming, but it turned out alright.

It's still not quite an exact copy of the real thing, but it's close. I might still tinker with it to square up the edges. This one has been a challenging model. Do you know what the only thing harder then making that irregular dome shape is, making stone seahorse heads!

I don't do well with shapes that defy standard geometry! Lucky for me, they're small so my messy modelling and shortcuts won't be visible in the end As usual, my model is a touch larger than it should be so I'm going to have to scale the whole thing down by maybe 5% when I'm done modelling. Anyway, I'm going to keep picking at this one. I'm just about ready to start the side addition.

[Simbourgeois 139]

Wow, this is a grand project, indeed!

Good luck!

Best regards,

Simbourgeois

Mayor of Belleville

[Jasoncw 11,840]

The main entrance in particular looks really nice.

[spa 968]

Simbourgeois: Indeed, it is a big building with a lot of small details. It has been taking some time to get right!

Jason: Thanks. It wouldn't be a great old heritage building without a grand entrance.

Just a quick update today with some progress shots. I have been steadily picking away at the Dominion Public Building and the end of the modelling is coming into sight. Below is where things sit.

Still plenty to do, especially up at the roof level. The penthouse needs windows, a door and a ladder, the two giant hvacs and their associated ducting need to go on and the side walls of the tower need windows and a service door. Back at street level, I still need to add the front steps, wheelchair ramp and foundation. There is one issue I'm mulling over, what artistic license to take regarding the loading bay? The block that the real Dominion Public Building is located on slopes down towards Halifax Harbour. Between Lower Water Street and Bedford Row, the real Public Building actually gains a whole storey in elevation.

These types of elevation changes really don't translate well to SC4, so I have to decide whether to omit the loading bay entirely (already doing that with the basement windows on the Lower Water Street side) or add it as an underground feature like the parking garage on my earlier Amherst GOCB. I'm leaning on putting it in as a below grade feature and seeing how it looks.

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

Wow!!! everything is looking tip top shape, keep it up.

[Spike345 20]

This looks AMAZING I never realized how big the building is, from the first pictures you showed when introducing the building it looked much smaller. I am excited for this project! Hope you figure out the garage issue, is it possible to make it appear when the building is on a slope of sorts (like the Maxis houses in Simcity show more windows in the basement when on a slope)?

[SimFox 802]

Looks great, but I just wonder if it would be prudent to alter building so that it would be more in line with game Lots layout?

[benvoliothefirst 36]

Spa, your work continues to impress and inspire me. Thanks for all your contributions, and keep up the great work!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

What an interesting BAT you got going here! I love both its complicated shape and its size. It could serve as the eye-catcher in a smaller town, or as a smaller characterisitic building in a large city. Not to mention that the skylight gallery plus your nightlighting skills promise to be a mouth-watering combination...

Btw, I agree that modeling the loading bays as an underground feature would probably look better than totally omitting them, too. Anyway, this might become your most spectacular upload so far, and I wish you good success with it!

[spa 968]

Aaron: Thanks

Spike: My first few pictures were deceptive It's a fairly large building in terms of footprint. I could make it appear on a slople like a Maxis house, but it would be a lot of extra work and for it to look right, people would have to have it built on the right angle of slope. If the slope was too steep or not deep enough, you would end up with windows half cut off etc. It would also never work around the garage area because it's actually cut into the ground. Nice idea, just not really doable.

Simfox: I had thought about squaring it up, but I ended up deciding to keep the angle. It'll make lotting it a little bit more challenging, but it also makes the building stand out. Not everything needs to be square!

Benvolio: Thanks

Twrecks: Thanks. The skylight area will be special. I have actually modelled the inside. You can't see it in the previews I have below because the glass isn't textured yet, but there is plants and office furniture in there. I ended up doing the loading bays as an underground item. I'm going to include a version with and a version without them. People can use one or both depending on which they like.

Well 2 months between posts. Time sure flies! Sim City has been taking a bit of a back seat lately. It's the first Spring in my own home and my yard has become a big project. The previous owners took great care of the place inside, but they kind of gave up on the garden and as a result the flower beds are in an advanced state of neglect and there is gout weed, the most vile plant known to human kind, everywhere. It's practically a full-time job to fight it... or at least a full-time job in my leisure hours. I have still found some hours here and there to pick away at the Dominion Building, but it'll probably be slow going for the summer months. Below is where things are now.

About the parking garage section. Each of those cars came from a free website, archive3d. I downloaded each and then tweaked the models since most of them were very polygon intensive for Sim City's limited needs. The 10 cars are a Ford Fiesta, BMW M5, Fiat Uno, GMC Sierra, Honda Civic, Mazda 3, Mercedes Vito, Ssang Yong Rexton, Toyota Mark 5 and a Volvo S40. Tweaking and texturing each vehicle ended up taking several hours so the 10 of them represent several weeks worth of Sim City time. There are one or two of them that still need a little bit of work (interior sides so the parking lot lines don't show through), but they're basically done. At least I'll be able to reuse them in the future. The modelling is now basically done (will need to bat some ground to hide the underground pieces, but that's minor) and I'm finally ready to move onto texturing.

[Sim shady 12]

Everything here looks fantastic Spa. I love the detailing and the parking is coming along nicely. Normally I just lurk on these threads, but seeing you mention the website archive3d, one that I frequent on occasion, I have to ask what is normal protocol on proper credit being given to the creator of digital content? At ST we obviously cite the original creator of content uploaded to the STEX, but here the creator is clearly identified. On websites like archive3d it is oftentimes ambiguous on who the creator of content is, and consequently makes it hard to give proper credit to that person for their work. Would you have any idea on how you give proper credit in a case where you have appropriated another person's work to be included as a part of your own? Sorry to be a distraction, but I do hope you or one of the great people at this forum could help clarify this. Thanks

[Vlasky 1,803]

Spa, as admirer of your work, I must say you are doing incredible job. This gorgeous BAT is a crown of your work for sure. Great job, can't wait to see it with textures!

[Simbourgeois 139]

So nice to see the progress on this building!

And good luck with your garden

Yours sincerely,

Simbourgeois

Mayor of Belleville

[Seraf 1,238]

I can't wait to see that BAT finished, you did great job on modelling The only things that are missing for me now are details of the dome... But anyway, I think it will be really nice BAT

[danielcote 9]

Nice job! The parking lot on the side is a nice addition.

[Ceafus 88 1,794]

An absolutly Beautiful biulding Spa, it looks amazing.

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Whoa, I wish I had seen this earlier! This is completely amazing work!

[Kifflom112 355]

Those last 7 bats are amazing. They are really looking very realistic and I'm excited about their release. I love your BAT's they really give my city a lot of character and history. I'd really like some more 2 story to 5 story drift shops and apartments like that tall red apartment. I like your past unreleased BAT's like that federal station, and all of that stuff. Take care, I can't wait to have them!

EDIT

I just looked randomly at Halifax on Bing Map's Bird's Eye View and already saw two of the buildings you BATed. It was the Toronto Dominion Bank and CIBC, and they looked pretty similar to the real ones.

[Please avoid double posting - use the "Edit" button instead to amend your post. I added the content of your secons post to this one. ~ T Wrecks, moderator]

  Edited August 2, 2011 by T Wrecks  

[spa 968]

Hello everyone. Hope the summer is going well. First, time for a few really, really late replies.

Sim shady: I'm not actually sure what the protocol is. I know a lot of people use models that they download from elsewhere and I have noted that some creators give credit and some don't. In this case, I plan on crediting the website rather than listing all the individuals (wordy since each vehicle was created by a different person). The car models were uploaded with the intention that other people would use them so I think that's enough. Defacto permission to use and manipulate was given at the front end! That said, I had to spend a fair bit of time rescaling, recreating a few objects that didn't convert well into gmax, streamlining each model and texturing, so there is a good chunk of my own efforts in there too. Oh and no problem about the "clutter." Your question is on topic as far as I'm concerned

Vlasky: Thanks! I always thought of my Canadian Broadcasting Centre as being my crowning achievement, but this one will at least rival it when it's done.

Simbourgeois: Thanks. Progress here has been slow, but the gardening is going quite well. Have the Gout Weed under control in about half the yard and have put in several new flowerbeds. I have now started hauling beach rocks from my parents place in the country for edging which is really hard work. Sooner or later though I'll run out of summer and Sim City can once again claim more of my leisure hours.

Seraf: Thanks. Just wait for textures. The Dome will pop then.

Daniel: Thanks. I'm going to include two versions, one with the side parking lot and one without so that the building can be used in different types of lots.

Frex and Sgt Pepper: Thanks!

Zulu: Thanks. I know I have done a decent job when someone is able to pick the buildings I have made out in real life. If you want to see more examples of ones I have done, take a peak at Barrington Street. I have made 5 on Barrington I don't know for sure what I'll be working on next. After I'm done these federal buildings, I'll probably either start in on a batch of old mansions (not much low-density R$$$ to choose from) or some more main street buildings. Mid-rise modern residentials is something I have also considered. Incidentally, what's a drift shop?

So, as indicated in my last post from back in May, my Sim City time is a little limited right now as I'm putting a lot of effort into the backyard (planting, weeding and hauling rocks for edging). I don't think I'll have a whole lot of freetime to really concentrate on Sim City until the Fall. After Christmas though, I’ll probably be back to limited time as my wife and I are expecting our first child J I have, however, been slowly picking away at the Dominion Public Building. I'm into texturing. Below is where it's heading.

I have to say, texturing this model is a real pain in the butt. Creating custom textures for all those stone walls and manipulating them so that the bricks line up is very time consuming and I still have a long way to go. Now that I have textured the atrium, you can kind of see the furniture in there. When I do the nighlighting, hopefully all those chair, table and potted plant models I made will be visible. Anyway, I'll update again when I have more progress to show. Hopefully that will be sooner rather than later.

[Kifflom112 355]

This texturing looks great. I'll be looking forward to this building. And if you've been checking the Show Us Your Suburbs thread, I have posted pictures of my suburbs, You'll see how useful your content has been in that city. It's almost everywhere in my city. Good luck.