Introducing SC4Evermore (SC4E)

[Tarkus 6,933]

If you've been over to SC4 Devotion's temporary front page of late, you'll notice there's discussion of a new site, SC4Evermore.  RL has been very brutal for me over the past week, so I'm only just now getting around to officially announcing what's happening with SC4 Devotion and SC4Evermore (outside of the respective sites' homepages).

What is SC4Evermore?

SC4Evermore (or SC4E, for short, https://www.sc4evermore.com) is a new, download-focused SC4 site that I've started.  Its primary goal is to create a stable platform through which SC4 custom content can be preserved and shared in an easier-to-access modern form.  The initial first goal with the SC4Evermore project is to make available the files that were previously hosted on the SC4 Devotion LEX, prior to the last-minute webhost-mandated PHP 8.1 upgrade that took SC4D (in its familiar form) offline on June 11th, 2023.  All of the files that were previously hosted on the temporary SC4D frontpage have been made available at SC4Evermore, and more will be coming in the days and weeks ahead.

The name itself is a tribute to two community figures, Maxis' Wren Weburg (of Wren Insurance fame), who formerly ran a site called SC4ever, and the "SC4, Forevermore!" catchphrase used by popular BATer DuskTrooper.  Symbolically, SC4E also happens to come directly after SC4D in alphabetical order.  The new name also emphasizes that the site is intended to be a true community effort, and we look forward to sharing more details on this end in the near future.

The SC4 Devotion Discord Server has also been rebranded to become the SC4Evermore Discord Server, and is in the process of being converted into a full Community Server, which will bring with it new functionality, including Forum Channels.

Rather than running on custom or commercial software, SC4E is running on Joomla, since it is an actively-maintained, open-source content management system (CMS) with the necessary features and plugins to run a viable file exchange.

Why aren't all of the LEX's files available already?  And why didn't you just try to get the LEX back up and running?

The LEX had 4198 files in its database prior to being taken offline, and many of those files had descriptions with information about dependencies and the like.  Recreating all of that is going to take a lot of time, and it's been slower going of late due to the fact that, since the closure, heavy-duty RL has affected many of the key stakeholders involved. 

The LEX's custom software, while at least partially fixable, suffered from an onerous and ancient account system, which was a common source of complaints (see the frequent password/registration issues).  Additionally, its key feature that helped make the dependency-heavy file ecosystem manageable, the Dependency Tracker, was very resource-intensive, and severely taxed our server (particularly in terms of RAM usage).  Upgrading the server or changing webhosts is not an option at this time (and won't be until 2025), so there was a real need for something less intensive.

To deal with the loss of the Dependency Tracker, offer a more streamlined and complaint-free distribution system, and curb server RAM usage, there has been an effort underway (spearheaded by Tyberius06, Ulisse Wolf, and myself) to repackage many key LEX files into a more convenient form that doesn't require exotic infrastructure, as evidenced by the LEX Legacy packs we've been compiling since SC4D was knocked down by the PHP issues.  This also takes time, but we hope it will lead to a much better experience for users of SC4 custom content in the long term.  We've been prioritizing more frequently-used files, especially dependency packages that also get used by many files on the STEX.

What's happening with the SC4D Forums and Wiki?

Both the SC4D Forums and wiki are back online (still operating on the sc4devotion.com domain, so the original links to them still work without issue).

However, we have, for the time being, placed the Forums into a semi-archived, read-only state for everyone, except staff and members of custom content teams with established private development forums on the site.  As mentioned, we will be adding Forum Threads to the Discord Server.  The decision on the read-only/semi-archived state of the Forums is not a final one, but we will only consider a full reopening if we know it's going to attract enough activity to justify it (i.e. levels similar to that before the 2019 ownership change).

The Wiki, operating on a fragile install of an older version of MediaWiki, has a number of issues, including certain articles being inaccessible or impossible to edit--something which cannot be fixed without doing a full reinstall of a newer version of MediaWiki that is fully compatible with PHP 8.1, and likely a manual reimport of all the articles and data currently on it (which was required previously with the 2019 migration).

Why have I been having issues with incomplete downloads on SC4Evermore?

One of the issues with running a file exchange which allows guest downloading without user accounts (which were a frequent source of complaints about SC4D and the LEX) is that it is a lot more susceptible to issues with bots.  We've had numerous cases in the few days that SC4E has been open with bots downloading the same file repeatedly (and often large ones, at that), sometimes as many as hundreds of times in a row in a short time span, which seems to have had the effect of a mild DDoS attack.  We're in the process of finding solutions to curtail this bot activity without introducing roadblocks that hamper the experience for legitimate users in other ways.  We are in the process of trying to get CloudFlare protection working on the site (note that there may be some SSL/connection-related issues that render the site inaccessible at times, as we attempt to work out some issues with it).

Thank you for your support, and we hope you find SC4Evermore to be a useful resource to further your enjoyment of SimCity 4!

-Tarkus

 

[catty-cb 4,412]

40 minutes ago, Tarkus said:

.....We've had numerous cases in the few days that SC4E has been open with bots downloading the same file repeatedly (and often large ones, at that), sometimes as many as hundreds of times in a row in a short time span, which seems to have had the effect of a mild DDoS attack

Its good to see the new site and yes my old joomla based website had the same issue, badly enough that my hosting company was demanding I move to my own server .... I tried a number of different fixes to try and stop it happening, captcha worked quite well thru I did get some unhappy users because of it and I also had the site firewall set up to ban any IP address that it thought was a spam account and that definitely got complaints from people via PM here that the site was refusing to allow them access to download files .... not sure what I would have ended up doing as a long-term fix, but at the same time this was happening I had some pretty major health issues going on and ended up making the decision to shift everything over to simtropolis after talking with the admin staff here and then once I was certain everything had been moved I closed the site down.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,444]

Hello everyone

This will be a very quick post but that gives information on the SC4Evermore situation and the news we have introduced

First, we are continuing to restore LEX content to the new site. We are restoring content such as those of Mattb325 Residential Multi-Unit Pack along with other content but the process is slow because we are also applying revision in the files to eliminate any problems for players. So you have to have some patience to implement things.

As you know SC4Devotion Forum is in read-only mode and therefore the forum is not available. To suppress this problem we faced a restructuring of the SC4Evermore (Ex SC4Devotion) discord server. The server has become a community server and so we have introduced several features including the Forum feature. Members of the discord server can use this feature to have the same experience as they had in SC4Devotion. Obviously to improve the security of the members of the discord server we ask new members to accept the server rules and to have a verified discord account.

https://discordapp.com/invite/NsNZHEC

In the future there will be further updates on the situation but we are working to ensure a better gaming and community experience for you.

Have fun and good building mayors!

 

[TheTimvh1 922]

Hey, Tarkus.  I noticed the following are still missing from the BSC package:

1. BSC BATProps NewmanInc RPK
2. BSC BATProps NewmanInc WFK Vol01
3. BSC Essentials
4. BSC EU Flag Set
5. BSC MEGA Props CAL Vol01
6. BSC MEGA Props JBSimio Vol04 (found in the University of Clayhurst Expansion Pack)
7. BSC MEGA Props SG Heliport
8. BSC Parksv2 TextureSet
9. BSC Prop Pack Diggis Ponds 1
10. BSC Prop Pack Diggis Ponds 2
11. BSC Prop Pack Diggis Streams 1
12. BSC Prop Pack Diggis Streams 2
13. BSC Props Jeronij Vol02 Trees
14. BSC Props Jeronij Vol03 Trees Seasonal
15. BSC SimCityRailUtils GA
16. BSC VIP Girafe Hedges (found in BSC VIP Girafe Villa Libeskind)
17. CARCH Essentials
18. CP MMP for BSC MEGA Props CP Vol02
19. CPT No8andNo9 Terrain Essentials
20. DEDWD Small Shops Props
21. JB GE Old Tractor Prop (found in JB Chelsea Mills)
22. JENX-Porkie Expanded Porkie Props
23. JENX Trees Vol01 BSC
24. JRJ DT Trees
25. Jeronij Mayor mode Tropical Trees Mod01
26. JRJ Prop Pack Vol04 Trees
27. LK33 SeasonalFloraPatch
28. SG Models Education

And of course the various Tree models by Girafe.

[CaptCity 4,893]

3 hours ago, TheTimvh1 said:

...
19. CPT No8andNo9 Terrain Essentials
...
27. LK33 SeasonalFloraPatch
...

And of course the various Tree models by Girafe.

I believe these are available as separate uploads from the BSC Dependency pack. Check in the Mods (Flora & Terrain Mods) section. Also, you might keep an eye on the BSC Dependency pack version. It gets updated periodically, so some things may have been added.

Just a thought..

[TheTimvh1 922]

1 hour ago, CaptCity said:

I believe these are available as separate uploads from the BSC Dependency pack. Check in the Mods (Flora & Terrain Mods) section. Also, you might keep an eye on the BSC Dependency pack version. It gets updated periodically, so some things may have been added.

Just a thought..

Are they?  I wasn't sure given the issues SC4Devotion has been having and the fact that many of said prop packs were for the longest time exclusive to the site.

[CaptCity 4,893]

1 hour ago, TheTimvh1 said:

Are they?  I wasn't sure given the issues SC4Devotion has been having and the fact that many of said prop packs were for the longest time exclusive to the site.

Yes, I believe so, if I'm reading things correctly:

• Seasonal Flora Patch
• Girafe
• CP's Tree files

In addition, some of the items in your list might be in the new BSC Dependency pack with different names due to re-packaging (ex: JRJ's and NewmanInc's files). I have replaced most of my dependency files with the newer pack and haven't noticed any issues. Granted, I hardly use everything, so someone involved in the process might be along to add to or correct my assumptions...   

[Tarkus 6,933]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:58 AM, TheTimvh1 said:

Are they?  I wasn't sure given the issues SC4Devotion has been having and the fact that many of said prop packs were for the longest time exclusive to the site.

I own both SC4 Devotion and SC4Evermore, and was one of two active staff members at the time our host dropped the surprise PHP 8.1 upgrade on the former.  SC4Evermore's download section is essentially a successor to the LEX, in a reimagined form.  The goal is to get the LEX's content replicated in some form at SC4E, and in due time, also begin to offer other content--both legacy and new.  Currently, of the over 4000 individual files that were available on the LEX prior to its closure, I'd estimate that we've restored 560 of them (often as part of larger packs).

As far as those listed files go, many of them are already in BSC Common Dependencies or other SC4E packages in some form. As @CaptCity noted, quite a few of those are actually older packs that got rolled into later Mega Packs, and a few are in other files already up at SC4E.  BSC Essentials is automatically installed in the root folder (as originally intended) as part of the package, and there's no checkbox for it as a result--all the Essentials packages from individual BSC creators (like CARCH Essentials) got rolled into the main BSC Essentials at various points in time, and the individual ones have been long-deprecated. 

Things like the BSC Parks and the Diggis Pond/Stream stuff were intentional omissions, because those are intended to be issued as part of their own LEX Legacy packages at a later date.  The BSC Parks, in particular, have a bunch of different cosmetic options, and it made sense from a user-friendliness standpoint not to mix that in with BSC Common Dependencies, where it would very easily get lost in the noise.  The CP MMP files also didn't make sense to put in BSC Common Dependencies, since they add menu items, but they'll be added separately very soon.  (I'll also have an interesting surprise related to that to unveil soon.)

There are a couple unintentional omissions--I had thought the SG Civic Education Models were already brought in when we added the 2007-era SG model packs in one of the earlier updates to BSC Common Dependencies, but second look shows they somehow escaped (thank you for catching that).  Stuff off the LEX DVD is a lower priority, and it's also staged separately from the main LEX content, so it's largely been untouched.  We still plan to make all of it finally available to the public as free downloads, and a few bits of it that had gotten into the queue prior to the LEX collapse (like CSX Mega Prop Packs Vol08 and Vol09) have already made it into the new packages.

I'm working off an Excel spreadsheet dump of the file table from the LEX database, a copy of the entire files folder off the LEX, and a copy of the Project ZIP re-assemblages of LEX content received from @Tyberius06 (who has been an absolutely critical part of our efforts at SC4E).  With how many packs have been rolled into other packs, and the very similar names of certain things, it's been quite the web to untangle at times, but we're continuing to make progress, and I hope that the end results will end up making a pretty substantial QoL improvement for the SC4 community as a whole.

In other SC4E-related news, I've been handling the the SC4E editions of Mattb325's LEX content, and so far, two Residential packs have been released--one for Houses, and one for Multi-Unit buildings.  There's separate DarkNite and MaxisNite versions for each, since some of Matt's later uploads had those options.  They can all be found in the Buildings (BATs) and Lots > Residentials category.  The Houses pack contains the content of 55 previous LEX uploads, and the Multi-Unit pack contains 46.  I've gotten a head start on his other LEX BATs, and the Commercial ones are my next priority.  I've also begun looking at zero7's content for the LEX Legacy treatment, since it was a topic of discussion in another ST thread recently.

Tyberius06 has been working on the HKABT CAMeLots (including Bixel's content), while @Ulisse Wolf put together the airport package, the compendium of 3DS Max/Gmax source models, and has been looking at the MBEAR Mediterranean BATs and the vast collection of Maps from the LEX catalog.  @Shadow Assassin has assisted with getting a lot of the Maxis files situated at SC4E, along with using his Joomla expertise to fine-tune some aspects of the site.  We're mainly going to be focusing on things that have the greatest positive impact on overall community health (i.e., dependencies, and files by creators with larger collections that can be compiled into sets).

And for those who are wondering, coupled with heavy RL among other team members, this does mean that the NAM Team is operating at a reduced capacity at the moment.  That said, NAM 48 is still being actively worked on by a smaller subset of the team, with @Flann taking on the internal test build assembly process, and working on the flagship features.

-Tarkus

  Edited August 15, 2023 by Tarkus  
Fixed a little bit of stuff that got wonky as I reworded it.

[TheTimvh1 922]

13 hours ago, Tarkus said:

I own both SC4 Devotion and SC4Evermore, and was one of two active staff members on the latter at the time our host dropped the surprise PHP 8.1 upgrade on the former.  SC4Evermore's download section is essentially a successor to the LEX, in a reimagined form.  The goal is to get the LEX's content replicated in some form at SC4E, and in due time, also begin to offer other content--both legacy and new.  Currently, of the over 4000 individual files that were available on the LEX prior to its closure, I'd estimate that we've restored 560 of them (often as part of larger packs).

As far as those listed files go, many of them are already in BSC Common Dependencies or other SC4E packages in some form. As @CaptCity noted, quite a few of those are actually older packs that got rolled into later Mega Packs, and a few are in other files already up at SC4E.  BSC Essentials is automatically installed in the root folder (as originally intended) as part of the package, and there's no checkbox for it as a result--all the Essentials packages from individual BSC creators (like CARCH Essentials) got rolled into the main BSC Essentials at various points in time, and the individual ones have been long-deprecated. 

Things like the BSC Parks and the Diggis Pond/Stream stuff were intentional omissions, because those are intended to be issued as part of their own LEX Legacy packages at a later date.  The BSC Parks, in particular, have a bunch of different cosmetic options, and it made sense from a user-friendliness standpoint not to mix that in with BSC Common Dependencies, where it would very easily get lost in the noise.  The CP MMP files also didn't make sense to put in BSC Common Dependencies, since they add menu items, but they'll be added separately very soon.  (I'll also have an interesting surprise related to that to unveil soon.)

There are a couple unintentional omissions--I had thought the SG Civic Education Models were already brought in when we added the 2007-era SG model packs in one of the earlier updates to BSC Common Dependencies, but second look shows they somehow escaped (thank you for catching that).  Stuff off the LEX DVD is a lower priority, and it's also staged separately from the main LEX content, so it's largely been untouched.  We still plan to make all of it finally available to the public as free downloads, and a few bits of it that had gotten into the queue prior to the LEX collapse (like CSX Mega Prop Packs Vol08 and Vol09) have already made it into the new packages.

I'm working off an Excel spreadsheet dump of the file table from the LEX database, a copy of the entire files folder off the LEX, and a copy of the Project ZIP re-assemblages of LEX content received from @Tyberius06 (who has been an absolutely critical part of our efforts at SC4E).  With how many packs have been rolled into other packs, and the very similar names of certain things, it's been quite the web to untangle at times, but we're continuing to make progress, and I hope that the end results will end up making a pretty substantial QoL improvement for the SC4 community as a whole.

In other SC4E-related news, I've been handling the the SC4E editions of Mattb325's LEX content, and so far, two Residential packs have been released--one for Houses, and one for Multi-Unit buildings.  There's separate DarkNite and MaxisNite versions for each, since some of Matt's later uploads had those options.  They can all be found in the Buildings (BATs) and Lots > Residentials category.  The Houses pack contains the content of 55 previous LEX uploads, and the Multi-Unit pack contains 46.  I've gotten a head start on his other LEX BATs, and the Commercial ones are my next priority.  I've also begun looking at zero7's content for the LEX Legacy treatment, since it was a topic of discussion in another ST thread recently.

Tyberius06 has been working on the HKABT CAMeLots (including Bixel's content), while @Ulisse Wolf put together the airport package, the compendium of 3DS Max/Gmax source models, and has been looking at the MBEAR Mediterranean BATs and the vast collection of Maps from the LEX catalog.  @Shadow Assassin has assisted with getting a lot of the Maxis files situated at SC4E, along with using his Joomla expertise to fine-tune some aspects of the site.  We're mainly going to be focusing on things that have the greatest positive impact on overall community health (i.e., dependencies, and files by creators with larger collections that can be compiled into sets).

And for those who are wondering, coupled with heavy RL among other team members, this does mean that the NAM Team is operating at a reduced capacity at the moment.  That said, NAM 48 is still being actively worked on by a smaller subset of the team, with @Flann taking on the internal test build assembly process, and working on the flagship features.

-Tarkus

Thanks a bunch for the in-depth explanation.  I'm not at all familiar with the technical ins and outs of the situation, so I appreciate it.

[Propfam 2,295]

I wish I could contribute to the website. But is Evermore available for registration? I never see a single register button throughout the website. Thanks.

[Tarkus 6,933]

There is no registration at SC4Evermore, and at least at this point in time, there's not really any reason for us to allow people to create accounts.  We're really operating under the same model as SimCityKurier/SimCityPlaza--a straightforward, curated experience with registration-free downloads--combined with our very active Discord server as an interactive community component.

In other news, we've now restored close to 1200 LEX files in some capacity at SC4E, including the majority of the content by the LEX's top uploader, Mattb325.  We're restoring more pieces of content in big chunks, usually every couple days.

-Tarkus

[Propfam 2,295]

1 hour ago, Tarkus said:

There is no registration at SC4Evermore, and at least at this point in time, there's not really any reason for us to allow people to create accounts.  We're really operating under the same model as SimCityKurier/SimCityPlaza--a straightforward, curated experience with registration-free downloads--combined with our very active Discord server as an interactive community component.

In other news, we've now restored close to 1200 LEX files in some capacity at SC4E, including the majority of the content by the LEX's top uploader, Mattb325.  We're restoring more pieces of content in big chunks, usually every couple days.

-Tarkus

What about the guide section? After all, it supposed to be the wiki replacement, at least temporarily. Personally, I'd contribute to the wiki but I'm uncertain about the Devotion vs Evermore situation. So, clarification is welcome

Personal note: congrats on the 6,000 rep. Deserve it

 

[Tarkus 6,933]

2 minutes ago, elfrjz said:

What about the guide section? After all, it supposed to be the wiki replacement, at least temporarily. Personally, I'd contribute to the wiki but I'm uncertain about the Devotion vs Evermore situation. So, clarification is welcome

Personal note: congrats on the 6,000 rep. Deserve it

The model for the Guides section, when it comes online, is likely going to be more akin to the "Tipps&Tricks" section that SimCityPlaza used to house (Internet Archive version here--note that it's in German)--stuff written/curated by site staff.  It was never intended to be a wiki replacement, temporary or otherwise.

Some prime technical content from the wiki and forum archives might end up being ported over to the Guides section in some form, with proper credit given to those responsible for contributing that knowledge.  Right now, that whole area of the site is not a priority, and we don't really plan on doing much with it until we have much more in place with the LEX file restoration.  That's pretty much SC4E's exclusive focus for some time to come.

The wiki is currently editable, but it has some quirks wherein certain articles are uneditable for some unknown reason, and it's kind of a "use/edit at your own risk" situation.  We're not going to attempt to fix bugs with the existing wiki, as the backend is such a trainwreck that it needs a clean install and re-import (which would most likely end up under the SC4Evermore domain).  Again, that's very far down the priority list, especially as the wiki gets very little use (even less than the forums were getting prior to mess in June).

2 minutes ago, elfrjz said:

Personal note: congrats on the 6,000 rep. Deserve it

Thanks!

-Tarkus

[Turnstyled 539]

Thank you for all of your efforts after the major disruption of SC4D having to go offline. I've been into city-builders since SimCity 3000 was purchased for me in 1999. Our PC had to be upgraded for it to run properly. I don't know the details of that upgrade, but I remember seeing a 3DFX Voodoo box on a table in my parents' house. I had never truly "built a city" in SimCity 3000. That was due to what I was going through.

Life wasn't good for me until I moved into my own apartment in 2019. That wasn't my family's fault. In fact, with all that I was going through after SimCity 3000 came out, my father promised me a new computer in 2000. He ultimately bought a new computer for me in October or November of 2000, shortly after the Pentium 4 was first out. He didn't cheap out, either. He bought a Sony Vaio! Home computer technology was changing rapidly then, and my PC from 2000 didn't meet the minimum system requirements for SimCity 4. I was very excited for SimCity 4. I sure looked on community websites at the time, but I never purchased SimCity 4.

Ultimately, in 2009 or so, I purchased SimCity 4 as part of The SimCity Box. I still couldn't "build a city." I'd peruse Simtropolis, SC4Devotion, and SimPeg. After I moved into my apartment in 2019, I had to do a lot of healing that still continues. At some point, I was able to actually build a city in SimCity 4! It was a lot of fun, too!

Saying this as someone who has "been a fan" from the start, but who couldn't play SimCity 4, Cities: Skylines, or even SimCity 3000 due to personal issues that I've only recently started recovering from, I'm very excited about this "fresh start" with SC4Evermore. I might completely rebuild my plugins folder later this year or early next year! Don't worry. I have backups of everything.

My father who bought me that Sony Vaio in 2000 died a few months ago. I've been told that I shouldn't see it as rude or mean that I feel better since he died. He was ill for so long. It was a big stress for me.

Thank you again, and take all the time you need to restore the contents of the LEX! SC4, Forevermore, indeed!

Edit: So-called "tribalism" is mentally exhausting for me. I've been playing City Life after having sold my graphics card. If it fits into the realm of "contemporary" city-builder, then I'm interested. I've seen the context of "SC4, Forevermore!" used in a thread about Monte Cristo's pricing of Cities XL. I'm not looking for anything to be replaced. I just want to have fun and enjoy myself. A wise man once said "It's only...It's only game. Why you heff to be mad?"

Edit 2: Please understand that I was not making "a dig" at anyone with that previous edit. It's just that as I was reading through that thread from about 15 years ago, I was reminded of things that I often see online.

Edit 3: Fixed some typos created prior to the previous two edits.

[nightbird615 1,430]

Is it just me or is the SC4EVERMORE (formerly SC4DEVOTION) website frustrating to use and navigate?  I hate the new format.  I can't see what I have and have not downloaded.   Some items don't have photos, etc.   

https://www.sc4evermore.com/index.php

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?    Why couldn't they have tried to still have it look familiar to the old format.   Frustrating.

[Tyberius06 12,234]

45 minutes ago, nightbird615 said:

Is it just me or is the SC4EVERMORE (formerly SC4DEVOTION) website frustrating to use and navigate?  I hate the new format.  I can't see what I have and have not downloaded.   Some items don't have photos, etc.   

https://www.sc4evermore.com/index.php

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?    Why couldn't they have tried to still have it look familiar to the old format.   Frustrating.

Well, if you kept things tidy, you would see exactly what you have downloaded in your download or back-up folders on your computer. And yes, many items don't have photos and they won't even have for a while, because IT IS NOT THE PRIORITY at this point. Instead of crying about missing photos please try to understand that we are spending our free time for free to rehost those files, and I'm personally really not appreciating that you don't have better things to do than crying about this here. It is frustrating indeed. You should be glad that some of us actually have taken the time to try to rehost these stuffs maybe improve some accessibility here and there fixing some bugs etc... I haven't seen you offering any help (not that we need any at this point), though you come here and start complaining about missing photos and that you are lazy enough to organize your stuff so you can follow what you downloaded...

NO... This is frustrating. This is my thought on this...

- Tyberius06

[CaptCity 4,893]

3 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Is it just me or is the SC4EVERMORE (formerly SC4DEVOTION) website frustrating to use and navigate?  I hate the new format.  I can't see what I have and have not downloaded.   Some items don't have photos, etc.   

https://www.sc4evermore.com/index.php

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?    Why couldn't they have tried to still have it look familiar to the old format.   Frustrating.

 

2 hours ago, Tyberius06 said:

Well, if you kept things tidy, you would see exactly what you have downloaded in your download or back-up folders on your computer. And yes, many items don't have photos and they won't even have for a while, because IT IS NOT THE PRIORITY at this point. Instead of crying about missing photos please try to understand that we are spending our free time for free to rehost those files, and I'm personally really not appreciating that you don't have better things to do than crying about this here. It is frustrating indeed. You should be glad that some of us actually have taken the time to try to rehost these stuffs maybe improve some accessibility here and there fixing some bugs etc... I haven't seen you offering any help (not that we need any at this point), though you come here and start complaining about missing photos and that you are lazy enough to organize your stuff so you can follow what you downloaded...

NO... This is frustrating. This is my thought on this...

- Tyberius06

Moved these posts here to keep things nice and tidy in the original topic.

And I'll simply add that SC4Evermore is a work in progress at this time, and when all is said and done, it may be a bit different than its current state. The folks there are basically starting from scratch and making a tremendous effort and devoting a large amount of time in getting things updated and added to the new location (as is explained in great detail in the posts above). The focus is on saving the material that had previously been available. The 'bells and whistles' may come later...

[Tarkus 6,933]

10 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Is it just me or is the SC4EVERMORE (formerly SC4DEVOTION) website frustrating to use and navigate?  I hate the new format.  I can't see what I have and have not downloaded.   Some items don't have photos, etc.   

https://www.sc4evermore.com/index.php

Does anyone else have thoughts on this?    Why couldn't they have tried to still have it look familiar to the old format.   Frustrating.

Site owner here.  As both the above posters have noted, SC4Evermore is still a work in progress, and we're gradually starting to add the niceties (formatting and images) now that we're farther along with the file restoration process.  Having the second-largest SC4 file exchange (and one that hosts a lot of commonly-used dependency packages) blow up is an emergency situation, and our goal first and foremost is to try to minimize that pain--simply making things accessible and available again takes priority.  We can worry about sprucing things up once the more critical matters are handled.

Even in its under construction state, what we have is an improvement over the temporary static HTML page we had as the frontpage of SC4D after our webhost's last-minute mandated PHP upgrade knocked everything out.  (That PHP issue, plus some other changes on their end made the LEX pretty much unusable, and not salvageable as anything more than a stopgap measure.)

We made the decision to get rid of regular user accounts with SC4E, as the user account system with SC4D (and particularly the LEX) was a massive pain in the butt.  The main reason for having accounts was to keep bandwidth consumption under control--something which was a huge issue in 2007, when the LEX opened--but since we've had unlimited bandwidth since 2019, there's more reason to get rid of it than to keep it. 

No user accounts does mean no more download history that you can access, but a lot of the changes we've made with file packaging (i.e., the LEX Legacy sets) make it less of an issue.  We've made the contents of 1200 former LEX files available again thus far, but there's only 142 downloads on the site, because we've condensed a lot of things down into bigger packages.  There's a lot less to keep track of now, and many things that once required dozens of dependencies only require one or two now.

-Tarkus

 

[nightbird615 1,430]

Tarkus, thanks for your reply and explanation.   Appreciate it.

[nightbird615 1,430]

Tyberius06, thanks for the snarky reply.  Just for the record, my download folder is very neat and tidy.  What you're missing is that those of us who download from SIMTROPOLIS and SC4EVERMORE have thousands of downloads PLUS sometimes some uploaders post on both websites so it's hard to keep track of which is the most recent, which is outdated, etc.   The photos at least helped us to know whether or not we remember downloading that particular item, and seeing the last download date, etc. to help us keep track.   Those two things are important for many of us so my frustration was valid.   How was I supposed to know you guys were STILL working on the website?   So, drop the attitude.  

[simster007 391]

2 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Tyberius06, thanks for the snarky reply.  Just for the record, my download folder is very neat and tidy.  What you're missing is that those of us who download from SIMTROPOLIS and SC4EVERMORE have thousands of downloads PLUS sometimes some uploaders post on both websites so it's hard to keep track of which is the most recent, which is outdated, etc.   The photos at least helped us to know whether or not we remember downloading that particular item, and seeing the last download date, etc. to help us keep track.   Those two things are important for many of us so my frustration was valid.   How was I supposed to know you guys were STILL working on the website?   So, drop the attitude.  

Don´t know if it's worth commenting this, but I'm missing a sort of "sorry"  or "oops" in your attitude.

2 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

those of us who download from SIMTROPOLIS and SC4EVERMORE have thousands of downloads

You have these thousands of downloads from creators spending their free time for free, downloaded for free from websites that have to be maintained. Some of these creators are right now rescuing a complete website and tons of these downloads in their free time for free,.

You are just underlining your poor little issues concerning the control about what might be new free content for you:

2 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

so it's hard to keep track of which is the most recent, which is outdated, etc.   The photos at least helped us to know whether or not we remember downloading that particular item, and seeing the last download date, etc. to help us keep track.

without any form of excuse for:

On 3.9.2023 at 3:52 PM, nightbird615 said:

I hate the new format.

So here is my Sorry for not being able to understand your posts at all.

[nightbird615 1,430]

Tyberius06, nice gaslighting.   Would you rather someone point out the difficulty of navigating the new site and you understand the issues and fix them OR we not say anything and people just not visit the site at all due to the frustration and then all your hard work was for nothing?   Someone with a brain and common sense would appreciate the feedback instead of taking it personally, as if I'm attacking you guys.  I'm not.  I was simply expressing my frustration using the new site and, thanks to someone else on your team who, respectfully, added that they were still working on the site, that was all I needed to hear and look forward to seeing the finished product.   Lastly, I'm not an ingrate who doesn't appreciate the creators who upload their content.  I often comment and tell them how much I enjoy their work and thank them for the uploads.   

[catty-cb 4,412]

4 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Tyberius06, nice gaslighting.

Just to be very clear I am quite offended by your comment regarding Tyberius06, If I were to start listed the things he's done over the years for SC4Devotion, SCEvermore and Simtropolis and the various people he had helped over those same years we would be here all day, also everyone at SC4Evermore are all long term players of the game and who's plugins folders and backup areas are probably equal to yours if not bigger and all of us except you appear to realize they are rebuilding the LEX from scratch and what it looks like now and what it might look like in the future when they have everything back and can consider adding "bells and whistles" .... yes there are things I'm going to miss on the LEX, but at the end of the day its about creating something that will work into the future and isn't going to send the site costs thru the roof

[Tyberius06 12,234]

4 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Tyberius06, nice gaslighting.   Would you rather someone point out the difficulty of navigating the new site and you understand the issues and fix them OR we not say anything and people just not visit the site at all due to the frustration and then all your hard work was for nothing?   Someone with a brain and common sense would appreciate the feedback instead of taking it personally, as if I'm attacking you guys.  I'm not.  I was simply expressing my frustration using the new site and, thanks to someone else on your team who, respectfully, added that they were still working on the site, that was all I needed to hear and look forward to seeing the finished product.   Lastly, I'm not an ingrate who doesn't appreciate the creators who upload their content.  I often comment and tell them how much I enjoy their work and thank them for the uploads.   

Oh, come on and you still carry on... I've chosen not to respond to your previous post, because to be fair I have better things to do (I'm on vacation yet working on the SC4E file re-hosting stuffs when my time allows me)... But here we are...

You did not point out any difficulties, neither others (so far), you phrased a complaint with frustration without any constructive details. You have difficulties, I don't. Seems to be a "you problem". Provide, please, details what your issues are exactly, because so far without any further details, there doesn't seem to be any issue which requires to be investigated and fixed if it was necessary. 

4 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

Someone with a brain and common sense would appreciate the feedback instead of taking it personally,

And yet again an attack  Nice try, though. Well if your initial "feedback" was respectful, nice and polite it would have been appreciated as always; if someone phrased a constructive criticism, that is always welcomed, but yours did not fall into this category. Don't assume a respectful reply if you can't provide a respectful feedback. 

On 03/09/2023 at 3:52 PM, nightbird615 said:

I hate the new format. 

  Why couldn't they have tried to still have it look familiar to the old format.   Frustrating.

This was not a polite neither a respectful feedback, I would not even consider it as a feedback, because it was not a feedback. It was a straight disrespectful complaint (as we failed to provide some kind of service - which is clearly not the case, because we are not here neither paid to provide any kind of service as I explained it in my reply above), there was nothing constructive in it.

4 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

we not say anything and people just not visit the site at all due to the frustration

Please speak only in your name, so far it is only your frustration. Who is "we" and "people"? 

4 hours ago, nightbird615 said:

thanks to someone else on your team who, respectfully, added that they were still working on the site,

First, yes, I truly admire his patience and diplomatic skills, I'm loosing really fast these features, when I encounter with people who fail to use a polite and respectful approach. Second:

On 04/09/2023 at 4:34 PM, nightbird615 said:

How was I supposed to know you guys were STILL working on the website?

Well, assuming that you are able to read, there were plenty of posts in the past few weeks and months both here on ST and on SC4E Discord (formerly SC4D Discord), which clearly stated that developing the new site and rehosting the close to 4000 contents and maintaining them are still very much in progress. I assume if you managed to find the site, you also managed to read the front page where there are constant updates regarding our progress. So if you did not read any of these provided information, that's not really my/our fault neither my/our problem, but that's on your lack of interest and/or laziness.

You originally posted into the CFI thread, which has several posts about people requesting currently unavailable contents formerly hosted on SC4D LEX and there are quite a few replies from me and from others from the current team, who are working on re-hosting said contents and maintaining/developing the new site. So it is hardly believable that you did not see these posts in the past few weeks, but if you did not pay attention don't blame us, as the information was out there clearly so that's how you were supposed to know, that we are still working on the site. 

 

[AsimPika3172 1,148]

Goodbye SC4D LEX.... 😭 and welcome SC4Evermore 🤩 Thanks for everything! 👍

[serpe 75]

My recomendation would be not to spend the time and energy in responding to trolls, overly negative criticism, or disrespectful and unhelpful comments.

[CaptCity 4,893]

I think that the earlier posts in this topic explain very well the situation with SC4Evermore, where it stands and the possibilities for the future. And while it is probably an oft-used cliche, patience is a virtue. As has been mentioned, the handful of folks involved are donating time and energy in providing a new, updated site that provides the material that had been previously on the LEX. There have been additions and improvements on an almost daily basis, and things will probably continue in that manner. Hopefully, we can wish them well in that endeavor and give them time to continue the excellent effort that has been put in thus far. With this in mind, as well as the usual congeniality of the SC4 community, this topic can return to its original purpose, to provide information as to the state of SC4Evermore. That is, after all, the way our community will benefit the most. 

[Propfam 2,295]

Can we include experimental mods like Jenx weather mods? I mean, it's not that important for most users but still worth preserving since it pushed the modding community forward. Last time I checked, it wasn't there.

[Tarkus 6,933]

Generally, everything that was on the LEX is supposed to come back to SC4E.  We've had certain priorities, and also certain other extenuating circumstances with files, which are why certain things are up now and certain other things still aren't.

-Tarkus

[SIM-ple Jack 17,450]

I'm glad I had the foresight to glean the best of the LEX, Touts, Kurier and assorted other blocked or defunct sites, years ago. Other than the occasional lists, I haven't much use for Dev in quite a while now. I seem to remember the LEX had a strange layout that I wasn't much a fan of. Oh well, RIP.