The best 'reasonably priced' new PC to run SC4 as well as possible

[Haljackey 17,380]

Well I made a decision. My current PC- which contains guts from 2010 when I built the thing from scratch, is going to get a replacement.

The only thing I remember upgrading was the GPU in 2015 to run Skylines better.

It's done a good job running SC4, but now I want to get something new and replace it before something on it dies. It will still be a good backup.

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I'm hoping on Black Friday I'll take advantage of some promos and build an entirely new PC from scratch. I want to aim this build to run SC4 as best as it possibly could.

I'm thinking my budget for a new build will be $1k-1,500 CDN, but I can stomach up to 2k. That's why I say reasonably priced in the title. Not cheap, but also won't have a 3k GPU in it.

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Having said that, I'd like input from the community. What guts do you recommend to get a brand new PC to run SC4 well on a 2022 build?

What CPU should I get? I'm thinking less cores, more GHz per core?

What motherboard?

What graphics card?

What RAM and how many GB?

What power supply?

Etc... I assume this will run Windows 11 too if that helps.

I'd also see if I can get the game to stream/record better. Getting decent FPS in dense cities with a large plugin folder is something my current PC struggles to do. Ideally I want to record/streem seamlessly at 1080p 60FPS.

Advice welcome! Thanks in advance!

[Haljackey 17,380]

@Shadow Assassin recommended this build on a discord discussion

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/3YN6xs

 

I think it's a good place to start but curious if anyone has feedback or alternative recommendations.

[z1 566]

I think the most meaningful upgrade you can make that will enhance your whole SC4 experience is to get a 32" QHD (2560x1440) monitor.  I've had my current one for five years, and there's no comparison to my old 24" monitor.  SC4 will run at that resolution out of the box (it's the highest resolution that will work without a wrapper), and you just get to see a lot more real estate at a reasonable size, with no display lag.  I'm partial to HP monitors, as I find they tend to offer the best price/performance, and you can get essentially the same monitor I have:  HP 32-inch 165Hz QHD HDR at Amazon.  At CA$441 it's not exactly a bargain, though; this same monitor has been on sale in the US recently for as low as $165.  I'd recommend waiting for the upcoming sales.

You can recoup a lot the cost of this monitor by cutting back on the video card in Shadow Assassin's recommendation, which is way overkill if you're just playing SC4.  I got a Radeon RX 570 for a little over $100 a few years ago, and it drives my monitor flawlessly.  Prices are higher today, but you can still get a ASUS Dual AMD Radeon RX 6500 XT OC Edition 4GB GDDR6 Gaming Graphics Card for $241; this is also a newer generation.

The CPU that SA selects seems to be the best balance between affordability and power available right now, at least in Canada.

The B660 chipset motherboards aren't really the best for gaming.  Instead, I'd recommend the  ASUS TUF Gaming Z690-Plus Wi-Fi D4 ATX LGA 1700 Motherboard at the same price.

As for memory, you can get the excellent Corsair Vengeance RGB DDR5 32GB (2x16GB) 5200MHz C40 Intel Optimized Desktop Memory, which should be at least as good as G.Skills, and save over $100 in the process.

The other items look reasonable to me, although with the exception of the SSD, I haven't looked into them in detail.  If you add up all the changes I suggested, your total price should be about the same, plus you get the nifty 32" monitor in the deal.

[Shadow Assassin 336]

100% admit that I put together the list in a hurry on my mobile phone but I highly recommend taking on @z1's advice re: the RAM (I'm not sure about the Z690 - I do feel it's a little overkill, however the B660 is perfectly adequate for handling this tier of CPU).

That said I have no idea what stores sell what in Canada so I wasn't sure what would be available there (I selected items that had a price tag still - which narrowed things down substantially).

As I mentioned in Discord, it's a bit unfortunate that the 3060 is so expensive, but you do get a modern feature set for that price. AMD will be releasing the 7000 series GPUs quite soon, (or they have already, I don't know), so the 6000 series should become quite discounted. These are no slouch when it comes to modern games either.

(Re: the 12600K - I actually recommended the 13600K - which has a higher clock speed, but it seems I accidentally added the 12600K instead to the parts list - add around $80 more if you want the 13600K. Both are excellent CPUs, so it's up to you -- you won't need to replace the motherboard, either, as it will work with both.)

While @Haljackey has said that he is bringing over his old storage drives I recommended doing a clean install with a new SSD and using the old ones as storage drives. I personally use the 970 Evo Plus on my current PC and it's been very reliable.

-SA

[Haljackey 17,380]

Thanks for the suggestions! For the time being I am simply looking at the computer guts themselves- accessories like monitors can be purchased separately and at any time- but this is my one chance to get it right with CPU, motherboard, etc.

Right now I run dual 27" 1080p monitors and I think they work perfectly fine. I'm thinking I'll jump right into 4k as the next upgrade, but yes I'll probably run SC4 at 1440p then.

[marksmango 27]

The 6600XT 8GB has served me well so far. There isn't a ton I can throw at it that it can't handle, and I don't think SC4 is really pushing it at all. If the 6700 is as good as people say, and the prices are coming down, you could look at that if you want to step up even more.  

z1 covered most of the rest of what I'd say, I have the same motherboard they linked and have zero complaints about it. Higher CPU speed is going to be favorable over cores for SC, unless you're one of those people that runs multiple cores at the risk of crashing. 

 

[kingofsimcity 5,740]

I think SA's part picker list is solid overall and should last you a long time. My recommendation for GPUs is to probably consider AMD's RX 6600/6650 XT GPUs as a strong alternative to the 3060, as those cards are faster overall (in other games) while being significantly cheaper. Looks like the cheapest 6650XT can be found on Canada Computers for 380$ CAD after rebate. For the same-ish price as the 3060 you can get a 6700 XT as well which is much faster.

In general SC4 performance should scale better with CPUs rather than GPUs - the game can run on a potato graphics card today without much trouble. Chips with higher clocks and IPC (instructions per cycle) and larger caches will benefit the game more than a GPU upgrade.

[Sphericus 0]

3 hours ago, z1 said:

I think the most meaningful upgrade you can make that will enhance your whole SC4 experience is to get a 32" QHD (2560x1440) monitor.  I've had my current one for five years, and there's no comparison to my old 24" monitor.  SC4 will run at that resolution out of the box (it's the highest resolution that will work without a wrapper), and you just get to see a lot more real estate at a reasonable size, with no display lag. 

Sorry to hijack your thread but I was wondering how to get 2560x1440 natively in SC4 without a wrapper, it fails to load every time I try.

[mosonče 75]

I'm having difficulty to imagine a modern computer that would struggle running SC4 so if it is sole motivation, I'd recommend an AMD APU without GPU with a mainboard having two display output ( preferably HDMI and Display Port ) , up until recently I had AMD Ryzen 5600G along with a TUF B550 mainboard having both ports but recently upgraded CPU ( to 5600 ) and got a GPU. ( Radeon 6700 10 GB )

In my opinion , either new Ryzen 7000 or Intel 13th gen or Nvidia 4000 series ( and probably upcoming Radeon 7000 GPUs ) don't justify their prices so it's wiser to stick with Ryzen 5000 with Radeon 6000 GPUs unless there is a very good reason.

So if I were you I'd go for
Option 1 :
Ryzen 5600G or 5700G / decent B450 or B550 mainboard / no GPU / some RAM ( up to 32 GB ) and M.2 SSD
Option 2 :
Ryzen 5600 / decent B550 mainboard / Ryzen 6000 GPU or nVidia 3000 GPU / some RAM ( up to 32 GB ) and M.2 SSD

but ofc you may want a drastic upgrade to new platforms but more reasonable mid-tier options usually pops up at the end of year or first quarter so not sure if they financially make sense.

 

Edit : There is a delay while loading cities or simply when playing the game when plugin folder is massive?

[z1 566]

13 hours ago, Shadow Assassin said:

(Re: the 12600K - I actually recommended the 13600K - which has a higher clock speed, but it seems I accidentally added the 12600K instead to the parts list - add around $80 more if you want the 13600K. Both are excellent CPUs, so it's up to you -- you won't need to replace the motherboard, either, as it will work with both.)

I was a little surprised you recommended the 12600K instead of the 13600K, until I looked around a bit in the Canadian stores and couldn't find the 13600K.  It's still a fairly new CPU, so that's probably why it's a bit hard to find.  I thought that that was why you recommended the 12600K.  I agree that the 13600K is the CPU to get if you can find it at a reasonable price.  Windows 11 is necessary in order to take full advantage of the features of these CPUs.

@Haljackey, the "K" at the end of its name means that the CPU is unlocked, which means you can overclock it.  I've been overclocking my CPUs for decades; it's not hard, and it's completely safe if you follow the directions.  Overclocking essentially gives you a speed boost for free, something that comes in handy while you're waiting for the NAM traffic simulator to run.  If this interests you and you get the 12600K CPU, you'll need to get a motherboard with the Z690 chipset (such as the one I recommended), as that's the only series that supports overclocking.  If you get the 13600K CPU, you can either get a Z690-based motherboard (which would require a simple BIOS update) or a Z790-based motherboard; either would work fine for you.

As for a basic summary of the difference in Intel chipsets  (i.e., Z-series vs. B-series vs. H-series), I'd recommend the Intel document How to Choose a Gaming Motherboard.  This document also contains useful information about a variety of motherboard basics.

14 hours ago, Haljackey said:

Right now I run dual 27" 1080p monitors and I think they work perfectly fine. I'm thinking I'll jump right into 4k as the next upgrade, but yes I'll probably run SC4 at 1440p then.

I should have figured that if anyone had a bigger monitor setup than me, it would be you...

An ultrawide monitor might be the perfect upgrade from your setup, especially since these go all the way up to 49".  Many of these come in 1440p resolutions, but some of them also offer 5120 widths.  This is twice the width of my monitor, so it's perfect for someone used to having two monitors.  The common term for these monitors is "double QHD".

11 hours ago, Sphericus said:

Sorry to hijack your thread but I was wondering how to get 2560x1440 natively in SC4 without a wrapper, it fails to load every time I try.

Here are the command line arguments I use for my copy of SC4:

-CustomResolution:enabled -r2560x1440x32 -f -Intro:off -CPUCount:1 -d:DirectX

All of these options (except the -Intro:off) are necessary to get the display to work properly at 2560x1440.  If your display doesn't work properly with these arguments, you probably need a better graphics card.

7 hours ago, mosonče said:

Edit : There is a delay while loading cities or simply when playing the game when plugin folder is massive?

This has always been true.  The DatPacker program, available on the LEX, can eliminate the majority of these delays.

[Sphericus 0]

Thanks for sharing, it would seem that there is something special I need to do for my setup as the 3070 and the Steam version of SC4 doesn't like that res at all even with the exact command line arguments...

[dgplex 39]

I'd like to note that more recent Nvidia graphics cards seem to have some issues around compatibility with SimCity 4 (as can be seen here and here), so using a wrapper is practically mandatory if you want a decent experience. I think it's something to do with DirectX, given that changing the DirectX settings in DGvoodoo solved it for me. I didn't know this when I got a laptop with a 3050Ti, so maybe don't get an Nvidia card if you don't want to use a wrapper

[dmn 134]

I am running SC4 only on my AMD A8-7600 Radeon R7, 10 Compute Cores 4C & 6G 3.10ghz RAM-8gb 6.93 usable - 64 bit Operating system X64 based processor. Running Windows 8.

SC4 has run consistently, no crashes, fast load time. The game has run non-stop for over a month. Here's my secret: This PC is NOT connected to the internet, everything that is unnecessary for operation and/or the game are disabled. EVERYTHING. This PC has not been updated in years and is the smoothest, consistently running machine that I have. Stability is amazing.

[rsc204 21,857]

I must say I think the title here should be more along the lines of, "I want a new PC, how can I ensure it works well with SC4". Why?, well I think when you get whatever computer you end up with, you will quickly realise that a brand new PC can't run SC4 much better than your old machine, which is likely already well beyond anything needed to play SC4 well.

Sure, there are some gains to be had, but there is a limit to how far simply throwing newer and faster parts at the problem can go. You have to consider that SC4 is 20 years old and has undergone precisely zero updates to help it work with new generations of technology it was never coded to handle.

So whilst in theory the fastest single-core performance you are able to get, would mean SC4 can keep number crunching for longer without slowing things down. There is no way SC4 can take full advantage of modern CPU technology or standards.

No matter how much RAM you have or how fast it is, the game can't use it or even take advantage of it's speed. If you can provide 4GB exclusively to SC4, it's more than the game is ever going to actually use.

No GPU you can buy will even feel alive running SC4, a GTX 750ti 2GB from 2014 is basically idling running SC4, so much so my PC could be running silently for hours with SC4 going. My GTX 960 upgrade didn't change anything about SC4, well except for making it harder to get it running well.

An SSD makes a world of difference, but faster NVMe drives and even RAMDisks show barely any difference playing SC4. Of course if buying a PC, you'd be mad not to get a fast NVMe drive today, but that's going to benefit your PC overall, not necessarily SC4.

Long and short, we're well past the point of diminishing returns, I think we were there 10 years ago frankly. What matters more is compatibility, if SC4 is an important part of what you want your PC to do, you should consider this. Bottom line though, your GPU needs to support the legacy DirectX 7 modes SC4 requires to function at it's best. However, 10 series NVidia cards already had this removed, as mentioned you are pretty much resigned to using a Wrapper for recent GPUs. But that's no big deal, I can't understand why some people seem so against them? I've had to use one since upgrading to 2k monitors last year and after a bit of tweaking it just works and doesn't seem to come with any big penalty. I can't imagine ATI cards are any different, in fact anecdotally speaking from my time on the forums, I would say they dropped compatibility before NVidia did. But that's exactly what a Wrapper is designed to fix, it converts calls from older versions of DirectX so it works with the newer versions of DirectX your hardware can support. Sure there is a cost hardware wise to do the conversion, but you aren't likely to see that reflected much playing SC4. The rest of your likely otherwise sleeping PC can take up the slack there. One tip, avoid Intel Graphics, the drivers just don't have a good reputation of working well with SC4, although in theory a Wrapper would resolve that. Just wanted to update this, using a Wrapper with my HD4600 Intel iGPU, all the usual graphical issues are no longer a problem, so yes even Intel iGPUs are perfectly fine for SC4 now.

So in conclusion, buy a decent PC considering all your needs, expect you'll need to do some tinkering to get SC4 up and running, but for the most part pretty much any PC can run SC4 as well as you can run SC4. However if you have other needs, oh boy will a 2022 system be better than your old one, provided you've up to date software that can actually take advantage of the hardware. 

I would note if you are considering the 12600k vs the 13600k the following:

• Check the benchmarks, some tasks the 13600 can do 60% faster than the 12600, albeit for more energy consumption. Personally I'd wait and pay the $80 premium, the 13th gen chips seem to be a huge step forward.
• Do you really need to overclock your system to eek a few percentage points more performance? Unless you really care, save a few bucks and buy the non K edition, it's plenty fast as it is.
• Note too, Intel will sell you an F edition, which is the same processor but without the Integrated GPU you likely neither want or plan to ever use. Another $30 to be saved on the CPU there. The 13600KF has an RRP (US$) of around $300.

On 27/10/2022 at 4:01 PM, Sphericus said:

it would seem that there is something special I need to do for my setup as the 3070 and the Steam version of SC4 doesn't like that res at all even with the exact command line arguments

Sorry, but your problem is precisely that you need a Wrapper, I myself am running 2K resolution and it's NOT optional. There is a limit of DirectX 7 which prevents running any game under DirectX beyond 2048px in either Horizontal or Vertical resolution. The only way around this is using Software Rendering (not recommended) or a Wrapper.

Not to mention as per @dgplex's comment, it's unlikely your GPU would run SC4 without a Wrapper, even if you used a lower resolution.

[mosonče 75]

Both Intel CPUs for few generations and recent AMD 7000 CPUs are power hungry and due to high wattage they need proper cooling as well.

So I still believe Ryzen 5000 series are most logical option ( due to cost falling down and AM4 being power reasonable in comparison ) , every CPU starting with Ryzen 5600 all the way up to 5800X3D makes sense if you spot a good price.

If it's combined with a decent B550 / X570 mainboard along with NVMe disk, you end up with a good PC.

Just keep in mind that RAM speed matters when it's AMD, as long as you don't look for Samsung B-die ones , imo Crucial Ballistix is no brainer with Micron E-die.

[Haljackey 17,380]

Well this thread is 2 years out of date but I finally made the purchase. Here's what I got:

$1.500 CDN ($1,700 after taxes)

Processor    AMD Ryzen 9 7900 12-Core Processor 3.70 GHz
Installed RAM    32.0 GB (31.7 GB usable)

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After an initial load of SC4 everything seems to be in place. Loading times don't seem to be much different but I'll have to test the in-game performance of my big cities. Regardless I was due for a update. Already considering upping my RAM to 64GB after seeing Firefox eat close to 40% of it with just a few tabs open. How did it work on my old machine with just 12GB DDR3 lol