NAM 41 and questions

[vetram 221]

-About one year before, i left NAM with version 38 (i think) , and returning back after a year i found it in already version 41!.....WOW

..Just yesterday i installed it into a new fresh installation of the game , and it seems logical to start wondering some things right from the begining....

so, forgive if i am asking questions that already might have answered many times , but i will try be as specific and articulate as i can , to whatever i ask , as i never want to get you tired ....in fact i will try to gather all my possible questions into that thread , in order to easily  find whatever i have forgotten ...(i am not so young , you know)

1. so,.......Maxis Highway Override (abbreviated MHO), or  sometimes called Project Symphony (abbreviated PS),  or ( MHW) is still alive in NAM41 ?  and if yes how can i be sure that i have installed it also during installation of NAM 41?....  wait for any answer and then possible ...to be continued! 

 

 

[Tarkus 6,932]

Welcome back, @vetram!  MHO is indeed still alive in NAM 41.  It's one of the two options under the "Maxis Highways" section under "2 Additional Network Features" in the NAM installer.  You'll know in-game if you have it installed by looking at the Highways menu--even without building any network, you can tell by looking at the icons--they'll look more like RHW buttons.  If you have the RHW installed (generally recommended for MHO, since MHO hooks in with the RHW's Modular Interchange System, or MIS), the MHO (or base MHW, if you have that installed instead of MHO) is going to show up fairly far down the menu, below quite a number of RHW icons.

-Tarkus

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

@vetram and @Tarkus

I've moved this to the NAM Forums.

[vetram 221]

Tarkus its an honor for me to reply to my questions!...

-Following your reply,  this is what i get. under the Default style folder...... and this....as a whole pic with the path...

i am not sure if i have made the installation the way i prefer , and of course if everything installed properly , but i think from what you wrote and what you see above that i havent installed MHO.....what do you think?  and if not how i will install it?  thanx 

[Tarkus 6,932]

Yes, that definitely looks like you have the base MHW, not MHO.  You could either remove your Network Addon Mod folder and then do a re-install, or if you're enterprising, you can actually extract the MHO folder out of the installer manually with 7-Zip (details in the NAM Documentation).

-Tarkus

[vetram 221]

Thanx again!  i will try whatever you wrote ,  and i hope for your support 

[vetram 221]

Well , ok finally i re-install and yes i can now have MHO ...Thanx once more Tarkus..

-I decided to start NAM 41 and turn my focus firstly to MHO , so i followed Tarku's direction ( The remainder of the documentation can also be consulted online at: sc4devotion.com/namdoc ) and started reading the article named..."Maxis Highway Override (MHO)/Project Symphony User Manual For NAM Version 35" .. is it really the same in NAM 41? ...

In the section ...• Interchange Construction....i am reading about Diamond interchange...and i am trying to remember (i left Simcity4 about a year before) where can i found all these puzzle pieces in the menus ....some hour after i found some of them in different menus either in Roads menu or Highway menu...and i am wondering now do i make something wrong? ...for example i followed the Diamond interchange STEP BY STEP as it is into the documentation ...it was hard to find all those puzzle pieces !!....so my question is this real the most updated method to build a Diamond interchange in MHO now having NAM 41?...OR in other words is that documention updated for MHO or am i missing something else?

[Tarkus 6,932]

Our documentation has, unfortunately, been in a state of massive backlog since NAM 31, eight years ago.  That PDF from NAM 35 is in fact the newest version of the MHO documentation available, and there is no updated version available. 

Speaking as a NAMite, the decision to go to PDF documentation back with NAM 31 seemed like a good idea at the time, but aged like milk.  They looked nice . . . but they proved to be impossible to update, and we're still having to deal with the fallout of that.  We managed to make a tiny bit of improvement with them during the NAM 35 cycle, though in some cases, it wasn't much more than replacing the text where it said "NAM Version 31" with "NAM Version 35".

We switched back to HTML documentation after that, but we've had to redo a lot from scratch, all while negotiating some record-long development cycles that nearly killed the project, and survival has outweighed documentation updates on the priority scale.  In some cases where we hadn't yet made new HTML documentation, but still had PDFs laying around, we linked the old PDFs in there, figuring that outdated documentation was better than no documentation.

The base MHO hasn't undergone much change since its introduction in NAM 31, save for some additions in the crosslinking, and getting Draggable Ramp Interfaces (DRIs) back with NAM 37.  However, the MHO relies heavily on the RHW for good portions of its functionality, and the RHW has undergone massive changes.  We've gone all-in on FLEX and draggable items, relegating most of the RHW's puzzle pieces to obsolescence.

Updated MHO documentation is on the list . . . but it's unknown as to when that will happen. 

-Tarkus

[vetram 221]

-Tarkus , if i understood well most of MHO functionality now depends on RHW , and most of puzzle pieces relegated to obsolenscence ..so i think i might continue  learning more about FLEX and draggable items in RHW , in order to understand better MHO functionality....

-Are the rest of documentation related to RHW updated ? ...if yes i will try to read and try into some test practice , and i might return to ask whatever...

by the way , i have subscribed to your channel into youtube , it would be nice if you upload any video about MHO ...and i dont know if i can find any help related to MHO into Simtropolis..if there is any pls can i have the link? 

Tarkus Thanks so much  ..  Antonis

PS: also haljackey and Rob's Red Hot Spot have channels in youtube where i have also subscribed ...if they read this , perhaps they can also upload something related to MHO..

[vetram 221]

just a simple question , may be many times answered .....is it possible to build a bridge to the river below , without bothering the road and the seawall from each side of the river ?  or in other words which is the better way to do so?

[City_Slider 2,716]

The best Way would be, if you got the same pitch on both sides.

[Whte_rbt 1,431]

No, however it can be made to 'work'. You need to remove the road and seawall where you want the bridge, put bridge in, then remake the road and seawall using the overhanging lots for the walls and the subway underpass visual pieces to link it back up. It should be noted that this will make the route commuter only as freight can't use the underpass routes.

 

@vetram: These should let you do the road:

 

Hopefully the Seawall set you're using has an overhang piece. Which set is it btw? Can't see clearly in pic..

[vetram 221]

Thanks for replying both friends ..  Whte_rbt, I didn't completely understood the method you wrote (perhaps any further help into this?) ...as for the seawalls its NBVC_Marina set

[rsc204 21,808]

When you build an in-game bridge, the tiles under the bridge are reserved for the bridge itself and can not be used for building things like lots or the roads you have running along the river. However, if you use the special set of Underbridge lots, they will allow for a visual connection of networks under bridges, which will allow car traffic to actually use them too. The readme of my download goes into this in more detail.

Additionally, since you can't add the seawalls under bridges either, you'll need an 'overhanging' version to use next to the bridge. Overhanging lots usually cover the tile directly adjacent to the one where you plop them, so the props 'overhang' the lot you placed. I'm pretty sure NBVC did create such an overhanging piece, but if not they aren't all that hard to create.

[vetram 221]

rsc204 , Thanx for explanation  ...i didnt find any overhanging piece in NBVC seawalls ( if there is any pls send me the link) ...I tried Underbridge Lots following the readme file , but i had no luck for the present ..of course i will return to this , as i will surely need those Underbridge Lots into my new project i have already started!.....

...by the way i have recently discovered your youtube's channel which i subcribed of course !...you are doing a great job there and there is a lot of help indeed ...Quite recently i needed help with diagonal bridges , and i found your video very helpful...in fact i managed to build a diagonal MHO highway just today and i am very happy with the result ! ..

...As i have a strong mood to learn more and more about NAM , i recently decided to start a completely new project and test my knowledge so far ...It's a very ambitious project for me  , as i was looking for a real modern city with  challenging complex transportation of almost every kind of transport ....this city is Dusseldolf Germany...

....I am still in early beginning and i started to face my first problems and questions ...How can i do this or that etc.....I didnt know that you cannot build a diagonal bridge , since i discovered your video , and lucky enough i managed to build it...

.....Now i will show you a pic from Google Earth with the same position and you will understand hopefully what i want to build  .....

...well , as you see this is the continuation of the diagonal bridge highway which splits that way as it seen into this pic....so , as i have noticed there arent diagonal ramps for MHO ..(i am not sure perhaps i am wrong).... to see what i can do , i have already some ideas into my mind ....for example i may transition MHO into RHW (if there are diagonal ramps for RHW,  and if we really can  build with starters diagonal RHW ?.. i dont remember if we really can.. ) or curve  it into orthogonal MHO ....i wonder which method is the best ?....if anyone can help pls ..

AnTonis (VeTram)

[vetram 221]

..just an update together with some thoughts....

-Firstly to sum up.....My thought wasnt to try to copy a real city , but to practιce custom contents and specifically the NAM (ver.41) ....i think that only with practice , you can finally learn ,and in the case of a real world city you can not only learn to use the right way custom contents , but you can also compare and their capabilities according to something real...

This is the first time that i try something like that , and i completely understand that you cannot have quick answers or even some answers into so many questions that they will naturally arise!....that means for example you try to build something new and immediately into your mind reach to a point that you dont know how to continue and what you can do , so you ask for help , which means that you are asking if there is any method to finish it , or perhaps to know if there isnt any solution ....

In that case , waiting for some help you are trying to find any idea into your mind in order to find some other possible solutions that may help you to your project... and i think this is exactly the point that you are starting to learn and gain more and  more experience ....   now the purpose for asking for some help , is to know if there is already a solution to your problem and simple you dismiss that solution really exist ... and if you finally realise that dont exist that solution , you are trying to find something similar to whatever you try to create...and whenever you succeed to find that similar way to help you finish , the final question is ....do you finally like the final result ? ...

-In my case , personally i think that i dont like the final result , and i have started to think if it will be better to build an imaginary city where you have every freedom to use other solutions and easier ways that  finally attend much better to your taste infront of your final project!... so , building an imaginary city you also learn but in fact you avoid more complicated issues....

For all above thoughts , i believe that practicing  to follow the design of a real city , is a much quicker way to learn and learn the right thing to any problem you face , except if there is no solution then you stop looking for it , as you know that this solution doesnt exists , at least for the present... 

finally , here is the result of my above post after whatever i could think myself...  

here is the pic from the interception after the long run of the diagonal bridge in the real city...  (also very difficult for me)

and the result of my efforts...

which i am afraid that i dont like........

the funny thing is that it seems to work and the Sims find their way perfectly  !.....

AnTonis (VeTram) 

 

 

[Propfam 2,288]

55 minutes ago, vetram said:

..just an update together with some thoughts....

-Firstly to sum up.....My thought wasnt to try to copy a real city , but to practιce custom contents and specifically the NAM (ver.41) ....i think that only with practice , you can finally learn ,and in the case of a real world city you can not only learn to use the right way custom contents , but you can also compare and their capabilities according to something real...

This is the first time that i try something like that , and i completely understand that you cannot have quick answers or even some answers into so many questions that they will naturally arise!....that means for example you try to build something new and immediately into your mind reach to a point that you dont know how to continue and what you can do , so you ask for help , which means that you are asking if there is any method to finish it , or perhaps to know if there isnt any solution ....

In that case , waiting for some help you are trying to find any idea into your mind in order to find some other possible solutions that may help you to your project... and i think this is exactly the point that you are starting to learn and gain more and  more experience ....   now the purpose for asking for some help , is to know if there is already a solution to your problem and simple you dismiss that solution really exist ... and if you finally realise that dont exist that solution , you are trying to find something similar to whatever you try to create...and whenever you succeed to find that similar way to help you finish , the final question is ....do you finally like the final result ? ...

-In my case , personally i think that i dont like the final result , and i have started to think if it will be better to build an imaginary city where you have every freedom to use other solutions and easier ways that  finally attend much better to your taste infront of your final project!... so , building an imaginary city you also learn but in fact you avoid more complicated issues....

For all above thoughts , i believe that practicing  to follow the design of a real city , is a much quicker way to learn and learn the right thing to any problem you face , except if there is no solution then you stop looking for it , as you know that this solution doesnt exists , at least for the present... 

finally , here is the result of my above post after whatever i could think myself...  

here is the pic from the interception after the long run of the diagonal bridge in the real city...  (also very difficult for me)

and the result of my efforts...

which i am afraid that i dont like........

the funny thing is that it seems to work and the Sims find their way perfectly  !.....

AnTonis (VeTram) 

 

 

How about if we replace ARD-3 with ordinary road and OWR-1 with OWR-2? It might need some reconfigurations, though.

[Lucario Boricua 7,028]

@vetram I think you should check the RealExpressway ramp pieces, maybe one of them fits better what you want to do. Here's 5 of them, and check if these, or any of the others, is suitable for what you want to do!

 

[rsc204 21,808]

On 29/06/2021 at 11:49 AM, vetram said:

rsc204 , Thanx for explanation  ...i didnt find any overhanging piece in NBVC seawalls ( if there is any pls send me the link) ...I tried Underbridge Lots following the readme file , but i had no luck for the present ..of course i will return to this , as i will surely need those Underbridge Lots into my new project i have already started!.....

I must have been mixing the set up with something else, checking my files I couldn't find such a thing either. As I said it's easy enough to create such a thing from the originals, so I've created a couple lots with the necessary resources and attached it here:

NBVC Marina Overhanging Models_MGB.dat

They require the original Marina's of course as a dependency.

On 30/06/2021 at 11:17 AM, vetram said:

My thought wasnt to try to copy a real city , but to practιce custom contents and specifically the NAM (ver.41) ....i think that only with practice , you can finally learn ,and in the case of a real world city you can not only learn to use the right way custom contents , but you can also compare and their capabilities according to something real...

Whilst having more familiarity with the NAM and of what's possible/isn't certainly would make the process of building any transit network quicker, the catch here is that without doing so, you won't easily gain that knowledge. As such, the example you've laid out here is as good a place as any to start if you ask me. Using a combination of RHW/NWM and other NAM features, you can probably get pretty close to the real world setup, but there are some things the NAM just can't do yet.

Here is as close as I can get to replicating the number of lanes and how they intersect using just OWR / REW pieces. For me this is a little messy, because we're stuck with an Avenue to the north, more true to life would be a NRD-4. Likewise to the east are two single OWR-1 lanes, with no easy way I know of to get these back to a normal road. To the west I've had to combine the two entry-lanes into an OWR-3, because 2x2 lanes doesn't go into 2 in NAM math. What you probably need to do is make compromises to fit the setups that work, whilst keeping the original inspiration in mind for how it looks. 

[Flann 1,709]

6 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Likewise to the east are two single OWR-1 lanes, with no easy way I know of to get these back to a normal road.

FWIW, this gap is on my radar and I would like to create a piece or two for it at some point in the future when I learn how to make such pieces.

[vetram 221]

Hello friends!....i am going to answer to every comment very soon , but for now just two important  express questions....

first ... can you tell me why it seems that some houses that have been build along a FAR network , dont have access to road ?  (notice that i have build in a way that even one house of 2-3 houses touches the road ....what have i forgotten really?  

 

and second question....i just realised something important with my diagonal bridge......Do diagonal bridges have to right height for ships to pass under?  ...and if NO is there any solution to get the neseccary height?......Thanx 

[Tarkus 6,932]

That has to do with how the pathing is set up.  Those particular tiles don't have car paths on them, and thus, no zone access.  I notice, however, given the lack of sidewalks, that you seem to be using the FAR puzzle pieces, which are more or less obsolete now.  We introduced Draggable FAR in NAM 31 back in 2013, and it fixes both the zone access and the sidewalk issues.

As far as the Diagonal Bridge Enabler's bridges go, they're technically not "true bridges", so the obstruction properties technically don't apply there, and wouldn't block ships from passing under.  That said, the actual physical aspect of whether or not the ships would make it underneath without clipping the diagonal bridge is going to depend on the height of the ships, and the height of the terrain where you started your diagonal bridge.  It's the starting points that determine how high the bridge is.

-Tarkus

[vetram 221]

Tarkus , which is the right way to use FAR ? perhaps you mean that link ?..  https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=16869.0                                 

 what do you mean should i use sidewalks?   and ok i understood that i have to practice in order to see if ships passing under...

[Flann 1,709]

58 minutes ago, vetram said:

Tarkus , which is the right way to use FAR ? perhaps you mean that link ?..  https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?topic=16869.0                                 

 what do you mean should i use sidewalks?   and ok i understood that i have to practice in order to see if ships passing under...

Yes, that link describes how to draw the FAR patterns using the road tool.  This draggable FAR comes with sidewalks and complete zone access.

[vetram 221]

-Good morning to all friends  ...time for an update , together with some newer thoughts....

-First of all  , many thanks to everyone's support as always...

......it isnt so easy ofcourse to replicate a real world city into the game , but as i have written already ,  my purpose isn't to replicate exactly whatever  i see on the map of the city ...the purpose is to learn from difficulties in practice and in simple words just to understand which things can be done and how, and which things can't using NAM41 newest version!..

 i am trying to stay as close as i can in order to face the real challenges that waiting for me..for some reasons but mostly for its high challenging transportation networks towards my rather poor  present knowledge ,   i choosed to replicate a real world city of Dusseldolf Germany ..i have already at least 2-3  times start from scratch !.. .. immediately  faced many difficulties but after some hard insist i think i have found some answers from my mind after practicing for some hours and some others with your help and support ...the sure thing is that i am learning or remember fast , and here is the result till now.....

first pic a general view..

 

and in a closer view...

as you can see there are enough challenging networks for someone to build ....

as i wrote i have already faced enough difficulties which i am trying hard to face by practicing a lot and of course with your help and support always!....I think i am learning guys the right way....so pls if you see and understand anything in those pics and you want to express or propose a better solution or opinion pls dont hesitate to do so , as this is something very useful for me and make my life easier!......

for the moment i will also mention that the link you proposed me for the FAR's network didnt help me a lot !....i am finding great problem with FAR's , and as you may see FAR's network is very important for the city...so , if you know any more help how to finally draw draggable FAR's pls let me know!...   (even more important for FAR's is the fact that you can't have access for the residentials if they are not draggable!...something that i didnt know and i've learned it here now..)

PS: I dont know about you , but here the temp has climbed into 40's recently , but we keep on going as we are brave builders and great majors dont you think?  

from now on i will post any serious problem at the moment that i face it , in order to be more clear and exact to this specific subject..

Love you all !   AnTonis (VeTram) 

 

 

[rsc204 21,808]

2 hours ago, vetram said:

if you know any more help how to finally draw draggable FAR's pls let me know!

Covered in the following YouTube tutorial:

 

[vetram 221]

Hi to all! ...just a quick question ...pls does anyone knows why when i am clicking the mouse in a specific tiles area into my city , its just frozen after letting the mouse and CTD's ....never faced that before !....any suggestion pls?

I dont know if there is any connection , but before demolish this area i used to have industrial zone and it seems a lot of air and water pollution into graphic map....

[rsc204 21,808]

1 hour ago, vetram said:

I dont know if there is any connection , but before demolish this area i used to have industrial zone and it seems a lot of air and water pollution into graphic map....

How did you demolish things there? I've only experienced it a couple times, but it is possible some "memory" of previous development get's stuck in the save file. Trying to do anything on the affected tiles indeed then causes potential issues. Try using the de-zone tool over the area and see if that helps, if possible zone the area again and remove it, which may refresh the save data. In my case changing the terrain seemed to be at least partially to blame and I ended up with a couple tiles I just couldn't touch. I just MMP'd some trash and other junk into place and left it as-is, since it wasn't solvable and the rest of the city was well developed.

[vetram 221]

just an easy question , but very important for my project .....as you can see in the following pic i simply want to make an underpass from a NWM-OWR3 road ...is it possible ?  and generally is it possible to make underpasses from NWM network? ....

 

and by the way a similar question.....is it possible to make underpasses under MIS curves , as you can see in the next pic?

 

rsc204  Thanks for the informations , but unfortunately i decided to start from the beginning !.........from now on just save very often and i keep save files in a back up folder ....i took my lesson.....

 

[vetram 221]

...is it possible for the draggable GLR (Tram) to pass under the MIS roads of the MHW ?    I already tested and know that can pass under the MHW with a puzzle piece ...but how about MIS elevated roads? ...just  take a look at the following pic in case you dont understand what i am asking...