(Mod) AMPS Development Thread

[RobertaME 1,376]

21 minutes ago, Kloudkicker said:

I'm really happy that AMPS has a little more "spark" in it.

::groan::

22 minutes ago, Kloudkicker said:

I looked into making the SAM street versions

No big thing. I just know having only 1 Street lot is very limiting to where pole-mount transformers can be placed.

4 hours ago, Girafarig said:

I actually found the Power Storage Packs quite underwhelming

The stats they have are exactly realistic. My late brother worked at the gigafactory, so he knew the details extremely well. I have toyed with the idea of making them store 10x as much power as normal per acre though, since many other lots (especially the Maxis lots) are "size compressed". (for example, the AMPS 2.5 MW Solar Thermal plant should be 10x larger than it is, which is actually scaled back from the Maxis default where it was 100x smaller than real life for its vanilla power output) Thoughts on this are welcome.

4 hours ago, Girafarig said:

I know AMPS doesn't have any hydro plants listed (yet?)

None directly supported, no... but I left room in the code tables to add up to 32 supported Hydroelectric plants; 16 below 8 MW (Small Hydroelectric Plants) and 16 at or above that rating. (Large Hydroelectric plants) Suggestions welcome!

4 hours ago, Girafarig said:

maybe something could be done to give us pumped-stoage hydro?

Absolutely! It wouldn't even be that hard... it could be BATed as a small structure with large water tanks on the lot and big electric pumps/turbines. The size of the tanks will determine just how much power the lot can store. (small lots with small tanks could only store some power, large lots much more) I can do the math on what each lot should be rated, but you do not want me trying to BAT it myself! :^Þ (I tried BATing once... it was pathetic and ugly... I have zero art skill!) Anyone want to have a go at it? Adding AMPS support to it is super easy for me!

@Kloudkicker: BTW, since AMPS Beta is now up on the STEX and mostly stable and working, feel free to add the AMPS Mini-banner to your supported lots. (your Transformer Lots, Wind Farm Maintenance Facility, and Substation and Transmission Station re-lots)

Progress update: Still working on getting the PV Panels to count right. I can't figure out a formula that is dynamic enough to account for all potential permutations and combinations of PV Panels as Generators, as Small Power Plants, and still keep support for Independent Solar Power Plants. :^/ I'll get it, though... I'm determined! I do have a working version of the change to the Power Storage rework to convert unused power before trying to convert used power, though. It will be included in the next update. :^) I have yet to even begin switching AMPS over to @memo's method of overriding lots... and I'm not looking forward to the amount of work that entails. :^(

Comments welcome.

[Girafarig 1,379]

16 hours ago, RobertaME said:

The stats they have are exactly realistic. My late brother worked at the gigafactory, so he knew the details extremely well. I have toyed with the idea of making them store 10x as much power as normal per acre though, since many other lots (especially the Maxis lots) are "size compressed". (for example, the AMPS 2.5 MW Solar Thermal plant should be 10x larger than it is, which is actually scaled back from the Maxis default where it was 100x smaller than real life for its vanilla power output) Thoughts on this are welcome.

Oh yes, I know. I'm not complaining about that -- if anything, I'm complaining about the fact that energy storage, hydro notwithstanding, is so underwhelming in the real world, too. And dunking on Elon Musk, of course, but that's a given.

[RobertaME 1,376]

For anyone interested, here's the new equations for Grid Balance with Power Storage integrated into the equations instead of established with a set of If-then statements beforehand:

-- The main load balancing equations including adjusting power loads based on the presence and quanitity in MWh of power storage lots
    grid_logic_var.MWH_DEMAND_TOTAL    = (game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0) + game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_EXPORTED,0)) -- The sum of city Power Demand and Power Exports
    grid_logic_var.MIN_P_POWER         = (math.ceil((game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0) * grid_logic_var.P_MPERCENT) + game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_EXPORTED,0))) -- At least 20% of Demand plus all exported power MUST come from Peak Load power plants, rounded up to the next whole number
    grid_logic_var.MAX_I_POWER         = (math.floor(game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0) * grid_logic_var.I_MPERCENT)) -- The maximum Intermediate Load power equals 40% of Demand rounded down to the previous whole number
    grid_logic_var.GEN_I_USABLE        = (math.min(grid_logic_var.GEN_I_POWER,grid_logic_var.MAX_I_POWER)) -- The lesser of generated Intermediate Power or the maximum Intermediate Power allowed
    grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT  = (math.min(grid_logic_var.BATTERY_POWER,grid_logic_var.GEN_I_POWER - grid_logic_var.GEN_I_USABLE)) -- Unusable Intermediate Power converted to Peak is the lesser of the Battery Power or generated Intermediate Power minus Usable Intermediate Power generated
    grid_logic_var.USABLE_I_CONVERTED  = (math.min(grid_logic_var.GEN_I_USABLE,grid_logic_var.BATTERY_POWER - (grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_B_CONVERT))) -- Usable Intermediate Power converted to Peak is the lesser of Usable Intermediate Power or Battery Power minus the sum of Unusable Intermediate Power converted and Unusable Base Power converted
    grid_logic_var.ALL_I_POWER         = (grid_logic_var.GEN_I_USABLE - grid_logic_var.USABLE_I_CONVERTED) -- All Intermediate Power available is the lesser of generated Intermediate Power or the maximum Intermediate Power allowed minus Usable Intermediate Power converted to Peak
    grid_logic_var.USED_I_POWER        = (math.min(grid_logic_var.MAX_I_POWER,grid_logic_var.ALL_I_POWER)) -- The amount of Intermediate power used is equal to the maximum I power alloawable or all I Power produced, whichever is less
    grid_logic_var.UNUSED_I_POWER      = (math.floor((grid_logic_var.ALL_I_POWER - grid_logic_var.USED_I_POWER)+0.5)) -- The Intermediate Power Produced that cannot be used or sold, rounded off to the nearest whole number
    grid_logic_var.MAX_B_POWER         = (math.floor(math.min(game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0) * grid_logic_var.B_MPERCENT,game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0) - (grid_logic_var.MIN_P_POWER + grid_logic_var.GEN_I_USABLE)))) -- The maximum Base Load power equals 60% of Demand or Power demand minus the sum of Intermediate power you are using and the minimum Peak power you MUST use, whichever is less, rounded down to the previous whole number
    grid_logic_var.GEN_B_USABLE        = (math.min(grid_logic_var.GEN_B_POWER,grid_logic_var.MAX_B_POWER)) -- The lesser of generated Base Power or the maximum Base Power allowed
    grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_B_CONVERT  = (math.min(grid_logic_var.BATTERY_POWER - grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT,grid_logic_var.GEN_B_POWER - grid_logic_var.GEN_B_USABLE)) -- Unusable Base Power converted to Peak is the lesser of the Battery Power minus Unusable Intermediate Power converted or generated Base Power minus Usable Base Power generated
    grid_logic_var.USABLE_B_CONVERTED  = (math.min(grid_logic_var.GEN_B_USABLE,(grid_logic_var.BATTERY_POWER - (grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_B_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.USABLE_I_CONVERTED)))) -- Usable Base Power converted to Peak is the lesser of Usable Base Power or Battery Power minus the sum of Unusable Intermediate Power converted, Unusable Base Power converted, and Usable Intermediate Power converted
    grid_logic_var.ALL_B_POWER         = (grid_logic_var.GEN_B_USABLE - grid_logic_var.USABLE_B_CONVERTED) -- All Base Power available is the lesser of generated Base Power or the maximum Base Power allowed minus Usable Base Power converted to Peak
    grid_logic_var.USED_B_POWER        = (math.min(grid_logic_var.MAX_B_POWER,grid_logic_var.ALL_B_POWER)) -- Base Power used equals the maximum Base power allowed or all B power produced, whichever is less
    grid_logic_var.UNUSED_B_POWER      = (math.floor((grid_logic_var.ALL_B_POWER - grid_logic_var.USED_B_POWER)+0.5)) -- The Base Power Produced that cannot be used or sold, rounded off to the nearest whole number
    grid_logic_var.ALL_P_POWER         = (grid_logic_var.GEN_P_POWER + game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_IMPORTED,0) + grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_B_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.USABLE_I_CONVERTED + grid_logic_var.USABLE_B_CONVERTED) -- All Peak Power available is the sum of Generated Peak Power, all Imported Power, and all Unusable and Usable Intermediate and Base power converted to Peak
    grid_logic_var.USED_P_POWER        = (math.min(math.max(grid_logic_var.MWH_DEMAND_TOTAL - (grid_logic_var.USED_I_POWER + grid_logic_var.USED_B_POWER),grid_logic_var.MIN_P_POWER),grid_logic_var.ALL_P_POWER)) -- Peak power used equals the greater of Power Demand plus Exports minus the sum of Intermediate and Base Power Used or the minimum Peak power required or all Peak power produced, whichever is less
    grid_logic_var.UNUSED_P_POWER      = (math.floor((grid_logic_var.ALL_P_POWER - grid_logic_var.USED_P_POWER)+0.5)) -- Peak Power Produced that is not being used, rounded off to the nearest whole number
    grid_logic_var.SHORT_P_POWER       = (math.max(grid_logic_var.MIN_P_POWER - grid_logic_var.USED_P_POWER,0)) -- Peak Power Shortage equals Peak minnimum required minus Peak used (positive integer only)
    grid_logic_var.BAT_UNUSED          = (grid_logic_var.BATTERY_POWER - (grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_I_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.UNUSABLE_B_CONVERT + grid_logic_var.USABLE_I_CONVERTED + grid_logic_var.USABLE_B_CONVERTED)) -- The amount of Power Storage unused equals Battery Power minus the sum of all Unused and Used Intermetiate and Base Power converted to Peak
    grid_logic_var.I_PERCENT           = (grid_logic_var.USED_I_POWER / math.max(grid_logic_var.ALL_I_POWER,1))
    grid_logic_var.B_PERCENT           = (grid_logic_var.USED_B_POWER / math.max(grid_logic_var.ALL_B_POWER,1))
    grid_logic_var.P_PERCENT           = (grid_logic_var.USED_P_POWER / math.max(grid_logic_var.ALL_P_POWER,1))
    grid_logic_var.DEMAND_PERCENT      = ((grid_logic_var.UNUSED_I_POWER + grid_logic_var.UNUSED_B_POWER + grid_logic_var.SHORT_P_POWER + game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0)) / math.max(game.trend_value(game_trends.G_POWER_DEMANDED,0),1)) -- The ratio of the sum of Unused Intermediate Power, Unused Base Power, Peak Power Shortage, and Power Demand to just Power Demand (i.e. the percent of power demand that should be increased to cause brownouts)

It really is a more elegant solution than the old method. If anyone sees any issues with the logic or ways that it could behave unexpectedly, please let me know as this will be what's in place in the next update.

[RobertaME 1,376]

Found a quirk of the new process:

If power is converted to Peak by power storage (as is done here by @Simmer2's Tesla Powerpacks) the query for power plants that are having their power converted to Peak shows reduced (or no) power or capacity used. I'll have to rework the variables that the queries use to make them still show their usage with power conversion in place.

Progress continues... slow but sure. :^)

[Girafarig 1,379]

Me again, with two more suggestions.

The first one is that, as I've continued using and testing AMPS, I find the locking-unlocking, rewards-like system more and more annoying. I mean, it's nice the first time -- as your city's capabilities increase, you start being able to use more and more powerful equipment, so there's a sense of achievement and increased efficiency there that feels nice. I just find the "re-locking", so to say, to be very annoying. If I can build, say, a 20MW Transmission Station, I want to be able to keep building more of those.

I mean, it's not like I'm getting any benefits from just plopping them in place, since their actual capacity is constrained by the Distribution capacity (and the Distribution capacity, in turn, is constrained by Transformer capacity) and they're not exactly nice buildings to keep around. But they're buildings that require an amount of planning to plop around, to mitigate their effects, and having to jump through hoops to be able to lay them down (again, after I've unlocked them) forces me to dedicate a lot of time, both in man-hours and ingame time (I need to let a whole month roll before the transformer capacity gets updated, which unlocks distribution infrastructure, which then needs a whole 'nother month…) to lay down electrical infrastructure.

There's also a host of potential bugs (or annoying features?) that come with this. The unlocking doesn't work all too well sometimes, for whatever reason -- for instance, I've never been able to, say, take out a 10MW Transmission station in order to free up Distribution capacity and unlock the 20MW one (even if I've already unlocked and built the latter station elsewhere). Instead, I need to build up more Distribution capacity to unlock the 20MW station from scratch, replace the old station, and then have an amount of unused Distribution capacity to deal with.

I get locking back the power stations, since those actually provide benefits, you want an electrical network that can support each of them and so forth. But please, do not re-lock Distribution and Transmission infrastructure -- the soft lock of not having enough distribution/transformer capacity is good enough, IMO.

On a more positive note: can we please get more AMPS-rated plants? I have one in mind in particular, which turns garbage into biogas: 

Since gas plants are already considered peak power, would the Biogas plant act in the same way? It would be really nice to have a plant that both provides peak power and gets rid of garbage. Or would it still be considered base power, like the other waste-to-power plants?

[RobertaME 1,376]

6 hours ago, Girafarig said:

I find the locking-unlocking, rewards-like system more and more annoying.

In order to ensure the upper levels of the grid, the power plants, are fully supported, each part has to be dependent on the parts below it. I'm still working to find a way to force rewards to update on demand rather than just once per month, but in the short term you can pause, save back to the region, then reload the city. Rewards are automatically unlocked if you qualify on initial city load. That way you don't have to wait for a month to pass.

6 hours ago, Girafarig said:

I've never been able to, say, take out a 10MW Transmission station in order to free up Distribution capacity and unlock the 20MW one

I too find it irritating, but actually you CAN and I've done so in testing. Unfortunately it requires that you bulldoze the smaller Transmission Station, save and close back to the region, then reload the city. On reload AMPS will see that you have 20 MVA of Distribution Capacity available and unlock the 20 MVA station. Again, I'm still working to resolve this by finding a way to write a function that forces a Reward check on certain buildings when the function is called. I still have a few ideas how this can be done to try, so hopefully that will be a part of AMPS in the future.

At least there IS a workaround for the moment. If this doesn't work in your install, take some screenshots showing that you have the capacity and that the button is still greyed out, along with your list of installed lots and I'll look into the issue further.

7 hours ago, Girafarig said:

On a more positive note: can we please get more AMPS-rated plants?

I asked up-thread for people to submit suggestions for just that sort of thing. :^) There are just SO many options on the STEX that I can't find them all, so suggestions like this are EXACTLY what I want! Thanks!

7 hours ago, Girafarig said:

would the Biogas plant act in the same way?

Looks like it would turn garbage into mostly methane, which is then burned in a turbine just like a Natural Gas plant. It wouldn't be as efficient as a W2E plant because there are extra steps and you lose efficiency every time you add steps, plus it would be more expensive to build and require HT industry, but yes... this would be a Peak W2E plant. Due to the way power plants are categorized in AMPS though, it would actually be classified as another kind of Natural Gas plant. Here is the list of all categories that AMPS can support:

To keep AMPS from being overly large and taking too many GUIDs, it's limited to a total of 512 supported lots. This required that each type be associated with an energy category; Peak, Base, or Intermediate. (e.g. all Oil or NG plants are Peak, all Coal or W2E plants are Base, etc.) I did set up Block F to allow for "exotic" situations that can't be covered under any of these categories, but I think @Simmer2's Biogas Plant would fit in nicely with the NG plants. I'll add it to the list. Again, thanks for pointing it out!

Comments welcome.

[Null 45 3,020]

2 hours ago, RobertaME said:

Again, I'm still working to resolve this by finding a way to write a function that forces a Reward check on certain buildings when the function is called. I still have a few ideas how this can be done to try, so hopefully that will be a part of AMPS in the future.

SC4 has a LUA functions to query the reward state of a building (game.get_reward_building_state) and unlock it (game.unlock_reward_building), both take the building GUID as a parameter. So if your code knows that an unlock condition has been met you should be able to unlock a building directly. Note that the game doesn't provide a way to disable a reward building from the LUA code.

There don't appear to be any examples of using those 2 functions in the game's LUA code, it probably just uses the (monthly?) condition/trigger function. If I am understanding the code correctly, conditionally enabling a building would look something like the following:

function is_building_available(buildingGUID)
{
    -- It appears that get_reward_building_state may return 1 or 2 to
    -- signify that a building is available in the menu.
    return game.get_reward_building_state(buildingGUID) >= reward_state.AVAILABLE;
}
  
function unlock_building(buildingGUID)
{
    game.unlock_reward_building(buildingGUID);
}

As I noted in the above comment, I am unsure what the correct return value is for game.get_reward_building_state is. The reward_state.AVAILABLE constant is defined as 1, but it looks like the game code only returns that if the target building is not a conditional building. For conditional buildings it returns 2, which is the value of the available flag on the C++ side. Not sure why that is, perhaps it is a typo that Maxis never caught because their LUA code never used game.get_reward_building_state.

[RobertaME 1,376]

17 hours ago, Null 45 said:

SC4 has a LUA functions to query the reward state of a building (game.get_reward_building_state) and unlock it (game.unlock_reward_building), both take the building GUID as a parameter.

This is the process I've been working on. It's still not functional (likely I have a typo in the code somewhere) but I consider it inevitable now that I'll get the code figured out and it'll be included in the v.0.4 version of AMPS, along with refactoring all buildings so that bulldozing is no longer required. (it eats up a lot of GUIDs though... essentially making the 0xbb35xxxx Instance range all mine)

Not making any progress on this at the moment though. (getting ready to help my older son move) :^/ Once I get more free time after this weekend I'm hoping to get back into things and make some serious inroads into the next update. ::fingers crossed::

Thanks for letting me know I'm in the right ballpark! @-,-'---

[RobertaME 1,376]

Just to update, I haven't been able to work on AMPS the past 10 days due to IRL stuff. :^/ Hoping to get back into it later today. Lots of work left to do and it won't get itself done!

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

Hay @RobertaME, I came across this newer substation set by @jestarr incase you wanted some more.

 

[Girafarig 1,379]

More ideas for variables to be suggested: should the weather impact energy consumption, and in particular, peak demand/ratio?

My wife recently came across an article where Russian immigrants to Argentina were complaining about the current cold spell we're having in Buenos Aires. Mind you, the current temperature (I'm writing this about half past noon, local time) is a very reasonable 12C, and even at its coldest, the temperature has never dipped below freezing. So definitely not as cold as the Russian winter, right?

Weeeell, Buenos Aires has one trick up its sleeve: this is a very humid city, built over swampy ground. It's also a very windy city, which does not help during winter. Humidity makes the cold feel colder and the summer feel warmer -- so much so, in fact, that we regularly experience rolling blackouts in summer, and occasionally in winter. AC is a must in here, and heating is also widespread.

Compare this to my native Santiago -- a city on the western side of the continent, with similar maximum and minimum temperatures, but enjoying a substantially drier, continental Mediterranean weather. Santiago households also use heating in winter (I have a third-degree burn scar in my right hand that reminds me of that fact), but AC is much less common, replaced in many places for less energy-intensive fans, at most with humidifiers (like on the Metro). And of course, AC is simply unheard of in the coast, where the sea moderates the weather.

Here's an interesting article about cities that require neither AC nor heating, and if you examine the list provided, you'll find that all cities enjoy either in the subtropical highlands climate or are (semi-)arid coastal cities, like Lima and San Diego: https://mnolangray.medium.com/cities-of-the-world-where-you-dont-need-ac-or-heat-mapped-2a3d6e018970

So, SC4 does not include a fully-working weather simulator and, for the most part, it pretends cities have some variant of the northern-hemisphere Mediterranean climate. But SC4 does include two parameters that are relevant to us here: humidity and amount of water. It even combines these two to create fairly exact maps, which in turn influence Flora and so forth.

Boy, who wouldn't want to move to a coastal desert?

Since a dry, coastal location wouldn't use as much heating or AC, which are usually activated during specific peak times, shouldn't that also impact the amount of peak power required for a city to avoid brownouts using AMPS?

[Simizen 1,088]

theoretically this could work, and even be extended to parts of the water system. Seeing that the water infrastructure would then require extra power to pump water around as it gets used up some more. Granted this would be marginal, but it would be something interesting to see happen within the game.

That said, it's possible that the best way to get the weather effect to work would be to lock it to about 3 months at a time. Certainly would help to keep the math/logic down to a minimum

[Ulisse Wolf 4,399]

On 30/06/2024 at 5:56 PM, Girafarig said:

More ideas for variables to be suggested: should the weather impact energy consumption, and in particular, peak demand/ratio?

My wife recently came across an article where Russian immigrants to Argentina were complaining about the current cold spell we're having in Buenos Aires. Mind you, the current temperature (I'm writing this about half past noon, local time) is a very reasonable 12C, and even at its coldest, the temperature has never dipped below freezing. So definitely not as cold as the Russian winter, right?

Weeeell, Buenos Aires has one trick up its sleeve: this is a very humid city, built over swampy ground. It's also a very windy city, which does not help during winter. Humidity makes the cold feel colder and the summer feel warmer -- so much so, in fact, that we regularly experience rolling blackouts in summer, and occasionally in winter. AC is a must in here, and heating is also widespread.

Compare this to my native Santiago -- a city on the western side of the continent, with similar maximum and minimum temperatures, but enjoying a substantially drier, continental Mediterranean weather. Santiago households also use heating in winter (I have a third-degree burn scar in my right hand that reminds me of that fact), but AC is much less common, replaced in many places for less energy-intensive fans, at most with humidifiers (like on the Metro). And of course, AC is simply unheard of in the coast, where the sea moderates the weather.

Here's an interesting article about cities that require neither AC nor heating, and if you examine the list provided, you'll find that all cities enjoy either in the subtropical highlands climate or are (semi-)arid coastal cities, like Lima and San Diego: https://mnolangray.medium.com/cities-of-the-world-where-you-dont-need-ac-or-heat-mapped-2a3d6e018970

So, SC4 does not include a fully-working weather simulator and, for the most part, it pretends cities have some variant of the northern-hemisphere Mediterranean climate. But SC4 does include two parameters that are relevant to us here: humidity and amount of water. It even combines these two to create fairly exact maps, which in turn influence Flora and so forth.

Boy, who wouldn't want to move to a coastal desert?

Since a dry, coastal location wouldn't use as much heating or AC, which are usually activated during specific peak times, shouldn't that also impact the amount of peak power required for a city to avoid brownouts using AMPS?

 

11 hours ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

theoretically this could work, and even be extended to parts of the water system. Seeing that the water infrastructure would then require extra power to pump water around as it gets used up some more. Granted this would be marginal, but it would be something interesting to see happen within the game.

That said, it's possible that the best way to get the weather effect to work would be to lock it to about 3 months at a time. Certainly would help to keep the math/logic down to a minimum

Although it may be an interesting idea but this thing falls under the DLL Mod concept so you first have to study the terrain and utility tables (Water and Electricity) affiche you can discover the data needed to write an algorithm that modifies the behavior but the main problem is that a complex thing in that you get to the point that you have to completely rewrite the relative code of the terrain simulation and utility simulation. This thing now is impossible because you lack the source code to understand how these algorithms were structured. 

[RobertaME 1,376]

Just popping in to say hi. I got busy with RL family stuff (my BD, the 4th, visiting my mother who isn't doing well, and working on a ton of home improvements) and haven't even have time to do anything other than sleep.

To top it off, now I have a bad summer cold. :^/

I will get back to work on the v.0.4 release as soon as I can. I just don't know when that will be. (can't think straight with the meds I'm taking to fight this off)

On 6/30/2024 at 7:30 AM, Kloudkicker said:

I came across this newer substation set by @jestarr incase you wanted some more.

I'll take a look at them when I get a chance. Thanks!

On 6/30/2024 at 8:56 AM, Girafarig said:

should the weather impact energy consumption, and in particular, peak demand/ratio?

It is something I considered when I built AMPS, but unfortunately, I can't change the actual demand generated by the simulation. I could artificially inflate the numbers AMPS generates the make it look like there was a higher power demand in summer, but it wouldn't have any effect on things like power station decay and other effects of demand.

Good idea, but as @Ulisse Wolf points out, this just isn't practical.

Be back as soon as I can when I can think straight and have real updates to report. :^)

[CorinaMarie 29,574]

On 5/23/2024 at 1:26 PM, RobertaME said:

While I was at it I decided to try my hand at @memo's Opera House Fix method that doesn't require bulldozing. (which is actually quite elegant)

While that Opera House thread does have the examples built right into the exemplars and lua code, you might also find my original explanation (from here) when I developed the method helpful too:

Spoiler

 

On 8/17/2021 at 3:44 AM, CorinaMarie said:

As explained by Robin, if we simply replace (overwrite) the vanilla stations that will then cause the Phantom Slider bug unless every single station is bulldozed in every single city tile in every singe region one has previously developed.

Until now that is the price we've had to pay to truly solve the crime issue. I've created a new method so we can have the best of both.

For each of the originals (Police Kiosk, Small Police Station, Large Police Station, and the Deluxe Police Station), I've removed the OccupantsGroup 0x00001500 so they will no longer appear in the Police Menu. Then I've given each a new User Visible Name Key with revised LText that adds the word "Vanilla" to their name. This allows bulldozing any of the old stations at our leisure rather than all before adding the new mod. The hover queries of the "Vanilla" police stations appear in a gray color.

Then all 4 are recreated with a new IID and those are the ones which show up in the menu.

Now we have the ability to bulldoze old stations whenever we come across them (or even leave them in any city tile) while also being able to plop the fixed versions. There is no conflict and no Phantom Sliders this way. This allows us to update and/or bulldoze any of them whenever we want all while solving the crime problem by plopping the new versions.

I've also included new Lua code so that every reward instance for the Deluxe Police Station will utilize the fixed version along with the fluff news and MySim comment recognizes the new one too. Additionally, all Missions that can be triggered when the Deluxe Station is part of the criteria, and all Missions who's reward is the Deluxe Station all work with the fixed one.

 

(I stuck it in a spoiler so it doesn't clutter up your thread.)

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

I had a few minutes to spare and stumbled across the link below. It's full of cool info that I found festinating.

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

[CorinaMarie 29,574]

I just stumbled across an old thread. Turns out I even wrote a tutorial for the No Phantom Sliders Replacement Lots Creation here.

[Simizen 1,088]

Going back through and looking at some of the stuff regarding the Submenu mod, one person brought up that the options would end up changing things due to the way different mods work. One of them that was brought up was the AMPS, and I'm wondering if maybe we should look at what our options are for the submenus for AMPS?

My thought (and hope) is that we could figure out a way to make it a bit more universal if possible. Though, I'm aware that there's differences in the way people play, and even some compatibility issues regarding other mods that might touch on the same things as AMPS. I believe they also mentioned that CAM changes the values of the power plants, which means that both AMPS and CAM are not compatible, at least, without extensive work being done to make them more friendly with each other.

And given how things went the last time people opted for the game to be modded a certain way, we ended up with both CAM and SPAM as a result. Personally, I'd rather not have a repeat of that in this regard. But I believe there would need to be a fair amount of work done to figure out what all is getting changed by CAM if we were to make it more compatible with it.

However, I would like to point out, that I'm not necessarily advocating for a complete changeover and dropping support for the Vanilla and/or SPAM players. But simply that we at least have a CAM-patible version. And I stupidly figured we could call it CAMPS, if you'd really like a lame joke to groan at

Anyway, the main goal is to contend with the Submenu mod which will become a standard mod now that we know we can have submenus. So, I think going through to see what the options are under there for the power menu, and what options we might need here and seeing what we could make. It's likely possible that we'd only need a second set of submenus below the first one, as the first one already breaks it down quite well.

Currently, we have:

• Dirty Energy
• Clean Energy
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities

all of which are good. But this is where we need to work out if we should have a second level of submenus, due to the way AMPS works.

On 6/13/2024 at 6:32 PM, RobertaME said:

This could be a pretty good starting point I think. Maybe breaking them down into Peak, Base, and Intermediate would be the best option, given that we're already breaking them down into Clean and Dirty sources.

So, the potential would be:

• Dirty Energy
  • Base
  • Peak
  • Intermediate
• Clean Energy
  • Base
  • Peak
  • Intermediate
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities
  • Substations
  • Batteries
  • Transformers

[Ulisse Wolf 4,399]

1 hour ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

This could be a pretty good starting point I think. Maybe breaking them down into Peak, Base, and Intermediate would be the best option, given that we're already breaking them down into Clean and Dirty sources.

So, the potential would be:

• Dirty Energy
  • Base
  • Peak
  • Intermediate
• Clean Energy
  • Base
  • Peak
  • Intermediate
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities
  • Substations
  • Batteries
  • Transformers

Many people prefer speration by energy source so one submenu I had planned for CAM for energy is the following

• Dirty Energy
  • Coal
  • Oil
  • Natural Gas
  • Waste to Energy
• Clean Energy
  • Wind
  • Solar
  • Nuclear Fission
  • Nuclear Fusion
  • Microwave
  • Hydroelectric
  • Tidal & Wave
  • Geothermal
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities
  • Substations
  • Batteries
  • Transformers
  • Power Lines

However, an early preview of the CAM is available here 

And consequently updating New_Properties.xml which will then be released to programs such as PIM-X and Reader etc..

https://github.com/NAMTeam/New_Properties.xml

[Simizen 1,088]

i was initially thinking of breaking it down to the individual types, but wasn't sure if that was entirely practical for this. I imagine it would be extremely useful, and I'm certainly not opposed to it, in fact, I'm rather in favor of it over what I suggested; just, again, didn't think it was all that practical when thinking this up initially.

Also, glad to see the addition of the powerlines, cause I meant to add them as an option, but for some reason tossed it out cause I was looking at the Maxis default network thinking it wasn't needed, and completely forgetting that I ended up downloading like 20 different power line mods at one point, lol. So, 100% agree with you on adding the Power Lines option.

I think the only other additions to your list would be to have 'Wood Power' and 'Geothermal'. So your list would likely be changed to:

• Dirty Energy
  • Coal
  • Oil
  • Natural Gas
  • Waste to Energy
  • Wood
• Clean Energy
  • Wind
  • Solar
  • Nuclear Fission
  • Nuclear Fusion
  • Microwave
  • Hydroelectric
  • Tidal & Wave
  • Geothermal
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities
  • Substations
  • Batteries
  • Transformers
  • Power Lines
  • Power Company Lots

If we stuck with this list, then likely the only significant change to the list would be those two options (afaik anyway). Make that 3 things, cause I realized that we've also got the various Power Company Lots to work with. This one could likely be added via AMPS itself, rather than CAM, as I don't believe most players would have need for it if they're not also running with AMPS.

[Ulisse Wolf 4,399]

16 minutes ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

i was initially thinking of breaking it down to the individual types, but wasn't sure if that was entirely practical for this. I imagine it would be extremely useful, and I'm certainly not opposed to it, in fact, I'm rather in favor of it over what I suggested; just, again, didn't think it was all that practical when thinking this up initially.

Also, glad to see the addition of the powerlines, cause I meant to add them as an option, but for some reason tossed it out cause I was looking at the Maxis default network thinking it wasn't needed, and completely forgetting that I ended up downloading like 20 different power line mods at one point, lol. So, 100% agree with you on adding the Power Lines option.

I think the only other additions to your list would be to have 'Wood Power' and 'Geothermal'. So your list would likely be changed to:

• Dirty Energy
  • Coal
  • Oil
  • Natural Gas
  • Waste to Energy
  • Wood
• Clean Energy
  • Wind
  • Solar
  • Nuclear Fission
  • Nuclear Fusion
  • Microwave
  • Hydroelectric
  • Tidal & Wave
  • Geothermal
• Miscellaneous Power Utilities
  • Substations
  • Batteries
  • Transformers
  • Power Lines
  • Power Company Lots

If we stuck with this list, then likely the only significant change to the list would be those two options (afaik anyway). Make that 3 things, cause I realized that we've also got the various Power Company Lots to work with. This one could likely be added via AMPS itself, rather than CAM, as I don't believe most players would have need for it if they're not also running with AMPS.

I forgot about geothermal which is a category included in CAM while Wood and Power Company Lots are things more specific to AMPS so they should be included in AMPS and not CAM

[Simizen 1,088]

Okay, that makes sense. Wasn't sure if the Wood ones were used in CAM. But looking back at the readme for AMPS, they're just repurposed coal plants so far.

[Paulis 11]

How do I get the larger transmission stations - see mentions of larger ones, but I only see 10MVA.

Thanks

[Propfam 2,286]

13 minutes ago, Paulis said:

How do I get the larger transmission stations - see mentions of larger ones, but I only see 10MVA.

Those should be there if you install all dependencies. If not, download from the link included in the manual. If it still isn't there, well, this mod is in beta, so there might be things that aren't available yet. And also, you probably have them already. But since she made the mod well before the advent of submenu DLL, it's probably buried under tons of other stuffs.

19 minutes ago, Paulis said:

One thing I am unsure of How do I bring this window up?

Well, you just plop the front office. If it isn't there, download both KK Power Company Front Office Pack and SM2 AMPS Rural Office and install it. It should be recognized by AMPS.

[Girafarig 1,379]

2 hours ago, Paulis said:

How do I get the larger transmission stations - see mentions of larger ones, but I only see 10MVA.

Thanks

What Jidan above me said, but also, larger transmission stations in particular require more than one large power plant, which not all plants qualify as. There's a couple cities where I have simply added several 10MVA transmission stations because I couldn't justify the extra plants.

[Simizen 1,088]

9 hours ago, Paulis said:

How do I get the larger transmission stations - see mentions of larger ones, but I only see 10MVA.

Thanks

Pretty much what Jidan said; there's a bunch of links in the initial ReadMe for it, so just go through those and download them. But make sure that you double check each power plant that you do download, cause a bunch will have dependencies. And if you don't have those, stuff gets weird (visually). They'll still work, they just might be eyesores if they're not complete.

And, afaik, there's not any particular submenu system in place for it yet, but, one is being made for CAM, though, I believe @Ulisse Wolf is currently working on that. Idk the status of it, so, I say don't worry about it yet. Yeah, the menu will get kinda clunky, but it should still work. Though, I think some of them will already default to their appropriate locations if you do have the submenu mod installed. I just don't think everything's been brought up to date yet.

Oh, and don't use this mod if you decide to run through the tutorials, as they'll disable everything but the default options, which means you won't be able to even reach the initial coal plant (same with the submenus). You're probably not going to touch the tutorials, but it's just something to keep in mind, cause I don't know who will and won't be going through the tutorials at any point.

That all said, happy modding!! And I hope it all goes well for you! It's a really fun mod to work with, but it does still have some limitations unfortunately (part of it is hard coded game logic).

And feel free to ask for help if anything else comes up!

[Ulisse Wolf 4,399]

15 minutes ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

Pretty much what Jidan said; there's a bunch of links in the initial ReadMe for it, so just go through those and download them. But make sure that you double check each power plant that you do download, cause a bunch will have dependencies. And if you don't have those, stuff gets weird (visually). They'll still work, they just might be eyesores if they're not complete.

And, afaik, there's not any particular submenu system in place for it yet, but, one is being made for CAM, though, I believe @Ulisse Wolf is currently working on that. Idk the status of it, so, I say don't worry about it yet. Yeah, the menu will get kinda clunky, but it should still work. Though, I think some of them will already default to their appropriate locations if you do have the submenu mod installed. I just don't think everything's been brought up to date yet.

Oh, and don't use this mod if you decide to run through the tutorials, as they'll disable everything but the default options, which means you won't be able to even reach the initial coal plant (same with the submenus). You're probably not going to touch the tutorials, but it's just something to keep in mind, cause I don't know who will and won't be going through the tutorials at any point.

That all said, happy modding!! And I hope it all goes well for you! It's a really fun mod to work with, but it does still have some limitations unfortunately (part of it is hard coded game logic).

And feel free to ask for help if anything else comes up!

I haven't started any work to make CAM compatible with AMPS but the good news that Maxis buildings with CAM statistics have a new IID so it requires a change to the LUA code of the original mod

[Simizen 1,088]

ah, okay. I knew that it was planned, wasn't sure on the status. But that's good to know!

And I do like that, if I'm understanding it correctly. So that means that we'd end up with the original plus the CAM variants of the original plants? Or are you saying that the originals won't be overridden by AMPS when run with CAM?

[Ulisse Wolf 4,399]

6 minutes ago, Ryuu Tenno said:

ah, okay. I knew that it was planned, wasn't sure on the status. But that's good to know!

And I do like that, if I'm understanding it correctly. So that means that we'd end up with the original plus the CAM variants of the original plants? Or are you saying that the originals won't be overridden by AMPS when run with CAM?

I ran a re IID of all civic buildings and maxis utilities and created a maxis blocker of the original Maxis buildings so it only has the CAM version Installed

[Simizen 1,088]

Ah, okay, cool. Will definitely love to see how this all works out when it's ready