(Mod) AMPS Development Thread

[RobertaME 1,376]

@jeffryfisher

There really is no way to make streets or other network tiles add to the cost of the power grid; not without majorly interfering in other network mods like NAM. I'm sure we could come up with a way to add them as random props along the route, but realistically it's a lot of work for not much effect.

I could come up with a formula to run in LUA that would count network tiles and come up with an averaged cost value, but there's no way to get that value into the economic simulation. LUAs can't directly induce a cost onto a specific line item, other than with ordinances... and those are very limited and do not reflect cost into the appropriate Power category.

The fact is that most cities won't HAVE 30-60 street-side transformers; you'll only place them where it's needed. They're expensive to maintain relative to their larger cousins and their prime reason to exist is to have a transformer lot where you need one without any NIMBY effect that the larger transformers have. (i.e. low-density residential only) Most maps wouldn't have more than a few dozen, put in on an as-needed basis as your city grows.

As for giving up residential lots, it's not necessary. Yes, they don't provide network access to the lots adjacent to them, but there are a number of ways around that. 2-tile wide residential lots with the transformer in front of 1 tile will still have network access. I deal with this issue all the time in my commercial districts where I want to add an in-avenue GLR station that is a TE lot and it's not too difficult to handle. You can also put them at the end of a block on a side street between house rows, like this:

The idea being that you have to think out solutions to issues like this. Do you go low-impact and use a lot of street tiles that don't disturb the residents, knowing it will cost more to maintain, (and be a little bit of a pain to place all those lots) or do you plan your communities so that each block has a 250 kVA transformer in the middle of the block, which services all the houses there, and deal with the issue of people not liking it and driving property values down a little? (the NIMBY effect is VERY small for the 250 kVA transformer... but it IS there)

If people think the smaller transformer lots are too difficult to deal with, they can just not use them at all, using nothing but huge transformers in the industrial sectors and skipping them everywhere else. The idea here is that you have OPTIONS. (I still haven't figured out a way to make residents NEED a transformer in their neighborhood and don't know if I even can... so not having them currently won't matter)

I appreciate your feedback! If you have any other ideas, PLEASE let me know! I'd love to see this mod flourish... and that means more broad appeal! Is having Transformers too much detail? Should they be dropped and just deal with Substations? (since I only have 2 right now, dropping them wouldn't be much of a loss... but I'd like to know the community consensus)

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

28 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

The idea here is that you have OPTIONS. (I still haven't figured out a way to make residents NEED a transformer in their neighborhood and don't know if I even can... so not having them currently won't matter

Aha... In that case I'll be patient and await the tutorial with pictures that will assuage my worries 

[Simmer2 23,785]

Hello Roberta.

Here is a mock up lot that does not require any TE. I made the pole and transformer as one offset model thus making it overhanging.

This way it resolves the issues of choosing a street texture. Now it can be plopped with any street mod.

It can also be plopped besides roads as well.

This is just a test lot. The final can be made with prop families therefore every time you plop the lot it will have different props on it to avoid monotony.

Simmer2

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

18 hours ago, RobertaME said:

Is having Transformers too much detail? Should they be dropped and just deal with Substations?

That's my feeling; in my RL neighborhood, the local transformer pad takes up all of 16 sq ft (a square about 4 feet on a side), so it hides neatly near the sidewalk between two yards. That's a lot less real estate than the 2x2 lot I see in your diagram, so I'm inclined to treat all zones as if they include such transformers in the price of zoning, but I could be misunderstanding what's what.

And of course, if most other players want these local distribution points to be as large as middle-class houses, then I'll just have to pick and choose among your mods options. I'm mostly interested in neighbor connections and balancing peak vs baseline power anyway (in my region, a few dirty cities supply power and garbage service, and industrial jobs for all the others).

[RobertaME 1,376]

@Simmer2

It looks great, but the back-end work I've already done is set up for the 25 kVA and 50 kVA to be separate lots. Plus, you usually wouldn't find both a pole transformer and a pad transformer in the same place in RL, so it looks... off. Either/or would be OK, but not both at the same time.

If you're dead-set against making the TE lot though, I guess I'll just see what I can do on my own. It won't be pretty, but it will do what I need it to do for the mod's game mechanics balance.

I'm sorry to have wasted your time. Please don't think badly of me. I only think very highly of you and your talent. I wish I had a tenth of it. :,^(

@jeffryfisher

The only example I have for a multi-lot transformer is the huge 6 MVA Industrial types that stand over 2 meters tall and usually have safety fence around them to prevent people from doing something stupid. You never see those in neighborhoods because no neighborhood NEEDS that much power... only Industry does. All the other Transformers I have in mind take up 1 lot, and even then only a portion of it. Here is a run-down of the system that I have half-built:

25 kVA Pole-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §1 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 TE Street -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- No NIMBY effect

50 kVA Pad-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §5 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 TE Street -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- No NIMBY effect (requires R§§ Pop 1,000+)

250 kVA Pad-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §15 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Park -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Very mild NIMBY effect

500 kVA Commercial Transformer - Build Cost §25 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Plaza -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Residential NIMBY effect

1.5 MVA Commercial Transformer - Build Cost §65 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Plaza -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe Res NIMBY effect (needs CS Pop 1,000+)

3 MVA Industrial Transformer - Build Cost §125 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 "Industrial" -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe R/C NIMBY effect (Needs IM Pop 500+)

6 MVA Industrial Transformer - Build Cost §250 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x2 "Industrial" -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe R/C NIMBY effect (Needs IM Pop 2,000+)

So yes, the type of Transformer you're talking about SHOULDN'T take up additional space... that's why I have those small units space-sharing with a street you need anyway. Does that make sense?

  Edited February 6, 2021 by RobertaME  
Mixed up and missed prerequisites

[Simmer2 23,785]

Roberta

I just did what you indicated on the last diagram you made, even though I knew that its not like real life setups, but its ok you are right I give up. I still don't understand what you really want with that first setup.

Anyways I just finished the 6 Mva Transformer and here is the model. One day I will release it as a standalone lot.

Thank you

[RobertaME 1,376]

25 minutes ago, Simmer2 said:

Roberta

I just did what you indicated on the last diagram you made, even though I knew that its not like real life setups, but its ok you are right I give up. I still don't understand what you really want with that first setup.

Anyways I just finished the 6 Mva Transformer and here is the model. One day I will release it as a standalone lot.

Thank you

I guess I'm not very good at describing things. :^/ That's MY fault... not yours. I'm sorry!

That model looks fantastic! I think I'm gonna cry, now!

At least you know that it was YOUR mods that inspired me to do this whole project to begin with over 2 years ago. I feel privileged that you even tried to help me with my weird little project! (seriously... you're a fantastic artist!)

I'll work something out. It'll just take me longer to finish, is all. Again, THANK YOU for trying! I sincerely appreciate the effort you put in!

[rivit 3,391]

Its been intriguing watching this thread evolve. As a consequence I can't wander around the neighbourhood without now looking for distribution components. Now I live in a old part of Sydney and so we are all poled for network distribution. We are all 240v 3 phase. In this area we have a small substation (looks like a 1x1 lot - a brick barn with parking) many of which were built in the 1920s, and pad transformers snuck into 4m2 spaces between odd shaped lots or on the pavement /kerb from time to time. The really big stepdown substations (Sydney has about 30 of them) (220KVa down - all open air) are mostly hidden away in nature spaces, near railway lines (which are electrified) or part of an industrial suburb. 

Modern versions of the small local substations look just like residential homes to fit in - usually the only giveaway is the black ring fencing, and a surfeit of beware (Danger! Will Robinson) signs - these can be 1x1 to 2x2.  Near new apartment blocks there seem to be connectors/step downs that are 1x1x2 ft on the footpath next to the buildings and other than that I have to say things are hard to find.  We do not have step-downs on poles here. I can remember seeing them as a kid (in NZ) - but they were 1x1x1m cubes and prone to lightning strike (for some reason).

Newer suburbs are underground power laid on at subdivision - so I've no idea what we'd see there - I suspect res substation and pad transformers. I cant find local distribution maps on the web - sensitive infrastructure. 

Now all of this led to my thinking - is there a way you can read building exemplar properties though LUA? Then it may be possible to invent or reuse a property to indicate the existence or an least capacity of some low level component. We know SC4 ignores properties it doesn't have code for (Fill Ratio comes to mind),  so we might then be able to designate certain lots or props with this property to allow it to be seen and acted on by the scripts. By these means we could add a property to existing growables and be done with the residential level specialty lots or T21s altogether. End of thought. 

[RobertaME 1,376]

2 hours ago, rivit said:

is there a way you can read building exemplar properties though LUA?

In a word... not really. I guess that's two words. :^/ Reading the instances of a particular prop is technically possible. It would require assigning it an Occupant ID and having the game engine track it, but that's easier said than done and has a slew of problems associated with it.

Most importantly, you'd have no control over a critical piece in the power development chain. You can't build power plants without transmission stations... you can't build transmission stations without substations to handle their output... and you can't build substations without transformers to distribute it. So you start building your city... and no transformer props pop up. Growth stagnates because all you have are generators... and you're stuck with no way out.

I get that some people aren't keen on the idea of detail down to the individual transformer, so when I finish up I'll have an alternate version that skips that step.

Hope that helps!

[rivit 3,391]

6 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

Hope that helps!

Yes and No - such is life.  If I need to place pad transformers or 1x1 substations that's fine - not a lot different from bus-stops or water. But since the game already connects power by adjacency running the argument from smallest substation (one 1x1 Lot per a suburb) seems best - not entirely realistic but game sufficient.  

Another thought - here in Australia over the last 10 years there's been a huge uptake of solar panels, primarily due to subsidies in the beginning. Easily 20% of properties now have panels on the roof (2 million homes, 8GW) and the networks are starting to suffer from overvoltage from this flood of generation. (its sunny here). How could a feed like this eventually be incorporated into your mod? Admittedly right now there are few residential lots on STEX with solar panels on them, but its something different for the future.

 

[RobertaME 1,376]

Ah... solar glut! While there's no easy way to simulate rooftop solar, I CAN build into the power balance check when you have more solar generation than consumption it causes problems.

Example: A town with Power Demand equal to 800 MWh/month builds a huge solar farm (made from Simmer2's Modular Solar panels) that produces 896 MWh/month.

Since Solar is Intermediate power, it can fulfill only 40% of the city's demand, or 320 MWh/month. (the other 60% of the time it's not producing when you need it to) That leaves the remaining 60% needed to be provided by Peak and optionally Base plants... with a minimum of 160 MWh/month needing to come from Peak. (so as much as 320 MWh/month can come from Base Load plants, or all of it can come from Peak plants)

As it stands, the simulation will show a power type deficit of 60%, putting the city into brownouts. Since the power generation from the PV system alone is greater than the combined consumption for the city, what do you recommend be the outcome for  a 12% overproduction? Would it be in addition to the brownouts or should it supersede them? In reality, you would have brownouts in hours of underproduction when city power demand is higher than average, and stress on the Inverters and Transformers during the hours of overproduction. (unused energy being converted to heat as the systems try to operate at higher voltages than designed for, damaging them) There's no way in LUA code to artificially "age" a power plant, (i.e. make it have a shorter life) so it would have to be something else.

Suggestions welcome!

Also, I had a thought on how to handle a potential new lot type: the Power Storage Lot.

The idea here is that each lot would be rated at a certain MWh capacity. So as an example, a 3x1 Tesla Powerwall lot with 3,000 "walls" depicted (60 walls wide and 50 deep) would have a MWh rating of 40.5 MWh. (13.5 kWh per "wall") In the scenario above, building 6 of these lots would cause 243 MWh of Intermediate power generation to be treated as though it was added Peak power. (this function would be spread evenly across all Intermediate Power Plants) As a result, 320 MWh from the solar field would still be usable Intermediate power and 243 MWh would be turned into Peak power, leaving 333 MWh "unusable". That would fulfill all the city's Peak needs and have 83 MWh left to reduce the city's power deficit from 40% to only 29.6%, or 237 MWh. Build 6 more and convert another 243 MWh to Peak production, reducing the city's power deficit to 0% with 6 Peak MWh leftover and 90 Intermediate power unused. add 4 mor "walls" and now all 96 MWh unused production becomes Peak Unused that can be sold to neighbors in a deal.

Thoughts and suggestions are appreciated, as always!

[matias93 7,535]

About energy storage, there is this cool alternative to chemical batteries, that promises much more capacity at a fraction of the cost: mechanical batteries, which in the simpler terms convert electricity into potential energy, to be released as kinetic energy and recaptured as electricity later.

One such design is an inverted hydroelectric dam coupled to a solar plant: the PV system provides energy in its excess hours to pumps on the base of the dam, which raise water into it; then, when the electricity is more scarce, the water is flushed back into the generators. It's only downside is the water evaporation, which tends to be important wherever PV plants are located, but there are ways to neutralise it, like this plastic balls used in some US reservoirs.

Another design, even wackier, is a crane surrounded by concrete blocks. The crane uses excess electricity to raise the blocks and pile them, and then inverts the motors into generators when lowering the blocks. The best part: it can be done in any surplus lot, even inside the city, as is fully scalable and does not require any external source material.

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

On 2/6/2021 at 2:41 PM, RobertaME said:

The only example I have for a multi-lot transformer is the huge 6 MVA Industrial types that stand over 2 meters tall and usually have safety fence around them to prevent people from doing something stupid. You never see those in neighborhoods because no neighborhood NEEDS that much power... only Industry does. All the other Transformers I have in mind take up 1 lot, and even then only a portion of it. Here is a run-down of the system that I have half-built:

25 kVA Pole-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §1 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 TE Street -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- No NIMBY effect

50 kVA Pad-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §5 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 TE Street -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- No NIMBY effect (requires R§§ Pop 1,000+)

250 kVA Pad-mounted Transformer - Build Cost §15 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Park -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Very mild NIMBY effect

500 kVA Commercial Transformer - Build Cost §25 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Plaza -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Residential NIMBY effect

1.5 MVA Commercial Transformer - Build Cost §65 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 Plaza -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe Res NIMBY effect (needs CS Pop 1,000+)

3 MVA Industrial Transformer - Build Cost §125 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x1 "Industrial" -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe R/C NIMBY effect (Needs IM Pop 500+)

6 MVA Industrial Transformer - Build Cost §250 / Monthly cost §1 -- Lot: 1x2 "Industrial" -- No Water, power, pollution, or Jobs -- Severe R/C NIMBY effect (Needs IM Pop 2,000+)

So yes, the type of Transformer you're talking about SHOULDN'T take up additional space... that's why I have those small units space-sharing with a street you need anyway. Does that make sense?

I gave it a small try for some. I used the open grass park as a base and put a few lots together. See what you think. As far as power units for transformer sizes go, I don't know to much, so I guessed. I could not find the real small transformer or pole mounted one that SM2 was using to try out the TE lot. I left all the stats as they were, a open park grass lot. The lot with the billboard is a random family prop, different every plop. There nothing special, so no worries if you don't like them. Do whatever you feel like  to them, free for the taking. 

The depends are SM2 MegeProp Pack vol 1 and some need BSC MegaProps SG vol 1 also. 

KK_1x1_250kVA_Pad1_ad2c1463.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_250kVA_Pad2_8d2c14bf.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_250kVA_Pad3_0d2c1594.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_250kVA_Pad4_cd2c1b4f.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_250kVA_Pad5_2d2c1c2a.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_500kVA_Pad1_4d2c1605.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_500kVA_Pad2_0d2c18fb.SC4Lot

KK_1x1_500kVA_Pad3_ed2c1a18.SC4Lot

  Edited February 7, 2021 by Kloudkicker  

[RobertaME 1,376]

7 hours ago, matias93 said:

About energy storage, there is this cool alternative to chemical batteries, that promises much more capacity at a fraction of the cost: mechanical batteries, which in the simpler terms convert electricity into potential energy, to be released as kinetic energy and recaptured as electricity later.

One such design is an inverted hydroelectric dam coupled to a solar plant: the PV system provides energy in its excess hours to pumps on the base of the dam, which raise water into it; then, when the electricity is more scarce, the water is flushed back into the generators. It's only downside is the water evaporation, which tends to be important wherever PV plants are located, but there are ways to neutralise it, like this plastic balls used in some US reservoirs.

Another design, even wackier, is a crane surrounded by concrete blocks. The crane uses excess electricity to raise the blocks and pile them, and then inverts the motors into generators when lowering the blocks. The best part: it can be done in any surplus lot, even inside the city, as is fully scalable and does not require any external source material.

All very interesting, but a bit off topic. (admittedly, a related topic, but still...)

What are your thoughts on the rules for power storage lots? It's a simplification, but I think lends more toward an intuitive use.

1 hour ago, Kloudkicker said:

I gave it a small try for some. I used the open grass park as a base and put a few lots together. See what you think. As far as power units for transformer sizes go, I don't know to much, so I guessed. I could not find the real small transformer or pole mounted one that SM2 was using to try out the TE lot. I left all the stats as they were, a open park grass lot. The lot with the billboard is a random family prop, different every plop. There nothing special, so no worries if you don't like them. Do whatever you feel like  to them, free for the taking. 

The depends are SM2 MegeProp Pack vol 1 and some need BSC MegaProps SG vol 1 also. 

::snip::

Very cool! Only issue is scale. Your 500 kVA transformer is a little bigger than a 6 MVA Transformer and your 250 kVA is a little bigger than a 1500 kVA Transformer. I assume these are props from one of those sets? They're too big for the smaller units. Still, that can get the 2 bigger lots done. If you take your 250 pad 3, get rid of the grass, add some Commercial props (the stuff you see in Small Plazas... maybe start with the small Plaza instead of the Park?) and sort of "pretty up" around the transformer to make it "fit in", that's 1 done... then take your 500 kVA pad 1, put it on a 1x2 lot with security fencing around the transformer, (about 1-2 meters clearance on all sides) and fill the rest of the lot with parking or some-such... anything that would fit in around Industrial lots, and that's 2 down!

These, combined with the two I already have only leaves the smaller units, the 25, 50, and 250 left to fill! Those I'm thinking will have to be made special. Is there a way to scale a prop down? If so, the 1,500 kVA made half the size (1 meter length/width/height instead of 2 meters) would fill in for the 50 kVA pad... that just leaves the 25 pole-mount (cylinder on a power pole like Simmer2 did above) and the 250 pad mount. (green box that is like the 1,500 kVA, but half as thick, just as wide, and shorter by a third)

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

19 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

I assume these are props from one of those sets? They're too big for the smaller units.

Yes, the transformers are in SM2 MegaProp Pack vol1. OK, I was afraid of that.

 

22 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

Is there a way to scale a prop down?

Someone else would know, I assume it posable, but I have no clue how or where to do that.

24 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

Still, that can get the 2 bigger lots done. If you take your 250 pad 3, get rid of the grass, add some Commercial props (the stuff you see in Small Plazas... maybe start with the small Plaza instead of the Park?) and sort of "pretty up" around the transformer to make it "fit in", that's 1 done... then take your 500 kVA pad 1, put it on a 1x2 lot with security fencing around the transformer, (about 1-2 meters clearance on all sides) and fill the rest of the lot with parking or some-such... anything that would fit in around Industrial lots, and that's 2 down!

I will give those two another shot. I may have to span out on depends to get the fences that would look best. But not for sure, Ill see. Im new to lotting, so still getting used to where things are and how they are described is not easy sometimes. The new prop and texture catalog is a saving grace for me, just in time for learning Lot Editor! 

[rivit 3,391]

12 hours ago, RobertaME said:

As it stands, the simulation will show a power type deficit of 60%, putting the city into brownouts. Since the power generation from the PV system alone is greater than the combined consumption for the city, what do you recommend be the outcome for  a 12% overproduction? Would it be in addition to the brownouts or should it supersede them? In reality, you would have brownouts in hours of underproduction when city power demand is higher than average, and stress on the Inverters and Transformers during the hours of overproduction. (unused energy being converted to heat as the systems try to operate at higher voltages than designed for, damaging them) There's no way in LUA code to artificially "age" a power plant, (i.e. make it have a shorter life) so it would have to be something else.

First thoughts are that the network instability in production hours is akin to brownout - in the sense that network outages could occur. If there's away to name it in a different way in some the LTEXT messages then that would probably do it. So treat it like brownout but call it network instability causing brownout. Of course the occasional destruction of a transformer lot would be quite a bit more exciting. (but we can but dream).

12 hours ago, RobertaME said:

Also, I had a thought on how to handle a potential new lot type: the Power Storage Lot.

The idea here is that each lot would be rated at a certain MWh capacity. So as an example, a 3x1 Tesla Powerwall lot with 3,000 "walls" depicted (60 walls wide and 50 deep) would have a MWh rating of 40.5 MWh. (13.5 kWh per "wall") In the scenario above, building 6 of these lots would cause 243 MWh of Intermediate power generation to be treated as though it was added Peak power. (this function would be spread evenly across all Intermediate Power Plants) As a result, 320 MWh from the solar field would still be usable Intermediate power and 243 MWh would be turned into Peak power, leaving 333 MWh "unusable". That would fulfill all the city's Peak needs and have 83 MWh left to reduce the city's power deficit from 40% to only 29.6%, or 237 MWh. Build 6 more and convert another 243 MWh to Peak production, reducing the city's power deficit to 0% with 6 Peak MWh leftover and 90 Intermediate power unused. add 4 mor "walls" and now all 96 MWh unused production becomes Peak Unused that can be sold to neighbors in a dea

And this goes a long way to solving the overcapacity at generation time and shortfall out of hours - effectively smoothing loads in and out. In South Australia they built a big one (100MW) to fix a hole (weak link) in the network created/discovered after two sources failed at once due to odd weather. They assert that its had a whole lot of side benefits in smoothing loads and costs (they import a lot of power) and are going to upgrade it to 190MW (which is a small hill of lithium).

Another opportunity for new lots - be that battery walls, reverse hydro, block stacks or hot salt tanks.   In short yes I think that calculation scheme would fly. Somehow though, from a play perspective,  there probably needs to be an explicit tie between solar/(wind?) and batteries because otherwise the Power Store wouldn't exist today (cost). Of course once you've got one it'll get used all round. 

[matias93 7,535]

2 hours ago, RobertaME said:

What are your thoughts on the rules for power storage lots? It's a simplification, but I think lends more toward an intuitive use.

I'm still unsure of the extent of what you can do with Lua scripts. I guess a perfect simulation would be making those lots consume energy in some moments and produce it in others, but I don't know if that's possible, either with the scripts or through exemplar editing; the game has a daytime simulation that controls the day/night cycle and the morning/evening commute, but both of them seem to be purely aesthetic effects, not something that can be repurposed to the functioning of a lot.

A simpler approach could be to use the Lua scripts to demand a certain amount of this power storage lots to allow the player to have only peak generating infrastructure on a given city, which IRC, is possible to do with scripting.

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

Here is a batch of plaza lots for you to check out.

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2_ad2c5b56.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.1_ad2c5d1f.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.2_4d2c5fb4.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.3_8d2c60cd.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.4_6d2c6205.SC4Lot

The statue in bottom picture, right side is a family prop, also is the flower colors. The people a random also and can be removed. There are one on each bench sitting and one child prop that spawns a few kids running around. At times thru props, so.... normal games stuff, but I don't care for it. But it is just a game.

( Just noticed in the pics, it looks like I plopped the same lot twice, opps. 5 lots in total.) Getting closer?

[RobertaME 1,376]

1 hour ago, matias93 said:

I'm still unsure of the extent of what you can do with Lua scripts. I guess a perfect simulation would be making those lots consume energy in some moments and produce it in others, but I don't know if that's possible, either with the scripts or through exemplar editing; the game has a daytime simulation that controls the day/night cycle and the morning/evening commute, but both of them seem to be purely aesthetic effects, not something that can be repurposed to the functioning of a lot.

A simpler approach could be to use the Lua scripts to demand a certain amount of this power storage lots to allow the player to have only peak generating infrastructure on a given city, which IRC, is possible to do with scripting.

Since the Base/Intermediate/Peak management is an abstract, (not accounting for time of day or weather conditions, etc.) Power Storage Lots would also have to be an abstract. I suppose I could work a system based on simulated time of day, adjusting Power Consumed and Produced as the day passed, but that would be much more complex. (and I don't know that anyone would care for such a simulation) As such, there's no need to have Power Storage Lots consume power at one time and produce it at another.

3 minutes ago, Kloudkicker said:

Here is a batch of plaza lots for you to check out.

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2_ad2c5b56.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.1_ad2c5d1f.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.2_4d2c5fb4.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.3_8d2c60cd.SC4Lot

KK_1x1PZ_250kVA_2.4_6d2c6205.SC4Lot

::snip::

The statue in bottom picture, right side is a family prop, also is the flower colors. The people a random also and can be removed. There are one on each bench sitting and one child prop that spawns a few kids running around. At times thru props, so.... normal games stuff, but I don't care for it. But it is just a game.

( Just noticed in the pics, it looks like I plopped the same lot twice, opps. 5 lots in total.) Getting closer?

Need to get ready to go to my mother's house for dinner, but these look good! I'll look at them in detail later!

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

Up until now, I had the parksdon'tpay mod in my plugin file. It may have affected the first set of lots. Maybe its just fine. I noticed after removing the mod, the files still have a -1 monthly budget. Which that mod is supposed to do. And don't leave these lots in your plugin folder, just in case. Make sure not to save any of these lots in a city, until they have been deemed ok.

These next two are cleaned up and pretty neutral right now, stat wise. 

KK_ID_PLot1x1_500kVA_2_ed2c8503.SC4Lot needs SM2 Mega Prop Pack vol1.dat and BSC Textures vol03.dat ---plop cost is $25, $1 a month

KK_PZ1x1_250kVA_2.5_ad2c7c17.SC4Lot  needs SM2 Mega Prop Pack vol1.dat---plop cost is $15 and $1 a month

**Both of these are found in the power menu.

[Simmer2 23,785]

16 hours ago, matias93 said:

I'm still unsure of the extent of what you can do with Lua scripts. I guess a perfect simulation would be making those lots consume energy in some moments and produce it in others, but I don't know if that's possible, either with the scripts or through exemplar editing; the game has a daytime simulation that controls the day/night cycle and the morning/evening commute, but both of them seem to be purely aesthetic effects, not something that can be repurposed to the functioning of a lot.

A simpler approach could be to use the Lua scripts to demand a certain amount of this power storage lots to allow the player to have only peak generating infrastructure on a given city, which IRC, is possible to do with scripting.

You will be happy to know that I started working on a Tesla Battery Storage facility. It will act as a power generator. I don't think there is any properties that could identify them as a storage facility within the game constrains. They will visually enhance a clean hightech map.

Simmer2

[RobertaME 1,376]

@Kloudkicker

Your 6 Commercial lots are really good! If you don't mind, what I'd like to do with them is set up a random plop so each time you plop one you get one of the 6 and include them with my mod. Same with the Industrial lot, which is pretty good, too!

That leaves just the 3 smallest transformers left; the two TE Street-side Residential lots (25 and 50 kVA) and the 250 kVA Park lot.

On a side note, I finally finished reconstructing the LUA math for load balancing:

--Total power production by type--
ALL_I_POWER = CLEAN_I_POWER+PETRO_I_POWER+CARBON_I_POWER+OTHER_I_POWER -- Sum of each Intermediate type of the 4  plant categories
ALL_B_POWER = CLEAN_B_POWER+PETRO_B_POWER+CARBON_B_POWER+OTHER_B_POWER -- Sum of each Base type of the 4  plant categories
ALL_P_POWER = CLEAN_P_POWER+PETRO_P_POWER+CARBON_P_POWER+OTHER_P_POWER+GENERATOR_P_POWER+game.g_power_imported -- Sum of each Peak type of the 4  plant categories, plus Generators, plus power imported in a Neighbor Deal

-- Maximum type factors--
MIN_P_POWER = game.g_power_consumed*0.2 -- At least 20% of Consumption MUST come from Peak Load power plants
MAX_I_POWER = game.g_power_consumed*0.4 -- No more than 40% of Consumption can come from Intermediate Load power plants
USED_I_POWER = math.min(MAX_I_POWER,ALL_I_POWER) -- The amount of I power used is equal to the lesser of I max or all I Power produced
UNUSED_I_POWER = ALL_I_POWER - USED_I_POWER -- The I Power Produced that cannot be used

MAX_B_POWER_A = game.g_power_consumed*0.6 -- No more than 60% of usage can come from Base Load power plants
MAX_B_POWER_B = g_power_consumed-(MIN_P_POWER + USED_I_POWER)) -- Power consumed minus the sum of I Used and the minimum P you MUST use
MAX_B_POWER = math.min(MAX_B_POWER_A,MAX_B_POWER_B) -- The maximum Base Load power equals the lesser of 60% consumed or the previous factor
USED_B_POWER = math.min(MAX_B_POWER,ALL_B_POWER) -- Base Power used equals the lesser of B max or all B power produced
UNUSED_B_POWER = ALL_B_POWER - USED_B_POWER -- The B Power Produced that cannot be used

USED_P_POWER_A = game.g_power_consumed-(USED_I_POWER+USED_B_POWER) -- Power Consumed minus the sum of I Power Used and B Power Used
USED_P_POWER_B = math.max(USED_P_POWER_A,MIN_P_POWER) -- The greater of the previous factor or the minimum P power required
USED_P_POWER = math.min(USED_P_POWER_B,ALL_P_POWER) -- P power used equals the lesser of the previous factor or all P power produced
UNUSED_P_POWER = ALL_P_POWER - USED_P_POWER -- The P Power Produced that is not being used and can be sold
SHORT_P_POWER = math.max(MIN_P_POWER-USED_P_POWER,0) -- P Shortage equals P min minus P used (this equasion was entered wrong and is fixed)

ACTUAL_USED = UNUSED_I_POWER+UNUSED_B_POWER+SHORT_P_POWER -- Added to Power Consumption to limit Neighbor sales and cause brownouts

The Key value is ACTUAL_USED which limits energy exports and is used to determine the extent of Brownouts. It's a value that will add to energy consumption based on excess Base and Intermediate power (power that can't be used or sold) and Peak Shortfall that is energy needed at peak times that the city lacks. The values UNUSED_?_POWER will be used in Advisor messages and Custom Queries to let the player know how much extra room there is in the grid. (UNUSED_I_POWER is actually a BAD thing as it's power that has nowhere to go and can't be turned off)

I've attached a spreadsheet that lets you play with the inputs so you can see how it affects the grid. If anyone can spot a hole in my math, please let me know!

loadbalance.lua.xls

Quote

You will be happy to know that I started working on a Tesla Battery Storage facility. It will act as a power generator. I don't think there is any properties that could identify them as a storage facility within the game constrains. They will visually enhance a clean hightech map.

Simmer2

This will definitely be included in my mod! It won't produce power with my mod, but rather convert a proportional amount of existing Intermediate Load lots to Peak Load. You do such awesome work!

  Edited February 9, 2021 by RobertaME  
Code Error fixed and comments added

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

26 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

If you don't mind, what I'd like to do with them is set up a random plop so each time you plop one you get one of the 6

I don't mind, I made them for you to do as you need. I am hoping you know how to get them grouped into a family. I don't know how to make them randomly plop.

 

32 minutes ago, RobertaME said:

Same with the Industrial lot

"Same" as in include it? If so,  go for it. If you would like more of the indy lots so the are random also, I can try a few more. 

[RobertaME 1,376]

1 hour ago, Kloudkicker said:

I don't mind, I made them for you to do as you need. I am hoping you know how to get them grouped into a family. I don't know how to make them randomly plop.

I do. It's just data handling... not art! :^Þ

Quote

"Same" as in include it? If so,  go for it. If you would like more of the indy lots so the are random also, I can try a few more. 

I would LOVE to have some variations for the Industrial Transformer lots! If at all possible, try not to increase the number of dependencies more than the two. (maybe 1 or 2 more, tops... and if possible try to make them common prerequisites... i.e. ones people are likely to already have)

In fact, I'm thinking of re-purposing the 2 Transformer Lots I already had to be really small Substations and have ALL the transformers made specifically for this mod. That way if people don't want to use the Transformers part of the mod (as there seems to be an interest in substation only) there won't be lots that serve no purpose. (the version without transformers just wouldn't include them at all) It means coming up with more Transformer lots, though.

Thoughts welcome!

[rivit 3,391]

Hi Roberta,

   Have taken the liberty of bringing your script into VB so that I could understand it. Along the way I've used the editor to rearrange and rename variables, and simplify the look of the code so that I could follow what was going on, and later run numerical tests. Sorry if that treads toes but it seems to me another representation may be useful for you to check if outcome matches intent. There is essentially a 1-1 correspondence with your code, but now it looks like this:

I'm entirely with you until the last three lines. That is up to here it all looks like it does what you intend.  P_Surplus seems to be unused,  Shortfall will be a value <=0, and ACTUAL_USED doesn't mean anything to me as it seems to mix headroom with shortfall. It may just be a naming thing but it looks as if more follows. Also I have some questions in the comments.

Anyway if its good up to here, I'll then run some numeric tests to see how this plays out with combos of supply and demand. There is a mutual dependency between determining Base and Peak Loads that might come unstuck in theory but I can't be sure without running numbers.  

 

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

Hay @RobertaME,

I have 6 more indy style ready, in pics. After checking in the game, the concrete is to dark for what I was hoping for. I was aiming for the medium wealth color and thought this was it. I would like medium because this is used more often and should have the best chance of blending in. Speaking of blending in, If these are park buildings in essence, then they can be placed anywhere. That would make the parking lots and billboards look out of place. I think it would be best to remove the parking and billboards altogether from these. What do you think or do you have other plans in store, like needing road access?

Look them over and let me know what you think, or don't like, or would like tweak a little.  I will post them after changes are made, so not to clutter up the system.

PS I altered the first indy lot I made and posted here. So it had cars( I think) and removed some fences with signs with ones without. First one was more of a mock up.

I renamed it thought, so it can coexist.

  Edited February 9, 2021 by Kloudkicker  
Added P.S.

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

I found a recycling container that just might work for the park lot. I started with a blank lot. I think I used medium wealth grass and things can grow on it. Should I make more like it?

[RobertaME 1,376]

14 hours ago, rivit said:

Hi Roberta,

   Have taken the liberty of bringing your script into VB so that I could understand it. Along the way I've used the editor to rearrange and rename variables, and simplify the look of the code so that I could follow what was going on, and later run numerical tests. Sorry if that treads toes but it seems to me another representation may be useful for you to check if outcome matches intent. There is essentially a 1-1 correspondence with your code, but now it looks like this:

I'm entirely with you until the last three lines. That is up to here it all looks like it does what you intend.  P_Surplus seems to be unused,  Shortfall will be a value <=0, and ACTUAL_USED doesn't mean anything to me as it seems to mix headroom with shortfall. It may just be a naming thing but it looks as if more follows. Also I have some questions in the comments.

Anyway if its good up to here, I'll then run some numeric tests to see how this plays out with combos of supply and demand.

Thanks! You pointed out an error in my code that I did when I was transcribing the math into LUA format.

SHORT_P_POWER = math.min(USED_P_POWER-MIN_P_POWER,0) should be SHORT_P_POWER = math.max(MIN_P_POWER-USED_P_POWER,0)

I edited the code above so it reads correctly now. The line is supposed to make it so Shortfall cannot be a negative number, only positive. That should also fix ACTUAL_USED as it is a positive integer applied to power consumption to increase it so that if you are short on Peak power it causes brownouts by making you consume more power than you produce. The other factors, UNUSED_I_POWER and UNUSED_B_POWER are added to this factor to remove power in those types above that which can be used and apply it as a demand increase.

The reason for this is that by increasing Power Demand, it solves two problems at once: how to limit saleable power to only unused Peak Production and how to cause brownouts when you're short of Peak Production.

• It makes only Peak Production saleable to neighbors by increasing consumption by a factor equal to UNUSED_I_POWER and UNUSED_B_POWER, leaving only UNUSED_P_POWER
• If there isn't enough Peak power being generated, at LEAST 20% of demand, the shortfall is "added" to power consumed; since B and I unused are also added, it brings demand higher than supply, causing brownouts

UNUSED_P_POWER (P_Surplus in your code) isn't used in the equations, but its used in Advisor messages and custom queries, so it has to stay. (it's also a 'reality check' to make sure salable power and UNUSED_P_POWER are the same number, since my current code for increasing power demand is still buggy)

Quote

There is a mutual dependency between determining Base and Peak Loads that might come unstuck in theory but I can't be sure without running numbers. 

It took me a while to remember how to run the equation so you didn't get circular results and it works as it's supposed to. Essentially, the logic is as follows:

• Lacking any Intermediate power production, Base Power can constitute no more than 60% of consumption.
• As Intermediate power is introduced, it first reduces Peak Usage until it reaches Peak Minimum of 20%.
• As Intermediate power increases beyond 20% of usage, it starts to reduce Base Usage until it reaches a maximum potential of 40%.
• Base Usage maximums are therefore reduced by Intermediate usage greater than Peak Minimum, until Intermediate reaches maximum potential.

Therefore:

I_used = min { I_prod , D_city * 0.4 } -- Intermediate Power Used equals the lesser of Intermediate production or 40% of Demand

P_min = D_city * 0.2 -- Peak minimum usage equals 20% of Demand

B_max = min { D_city - ( I_used + P_min ) , D_city * 0.6 } -- Maximum Base usage equals the lesser of Demand minus the sum of Int. power used and Peak minimum usage or 60% of Demand

B_used = min { B_prod , B_max } -- Base Usage equals the lesser of Base production or Maximum Base usage

where D_city is the city's power demand, I_prod is Intermediate Power Production, and B_prod is Base Power Production. That makes it so the only inputs into B_used are Demand, Base Production, and Intermediate Production. P_used is then derived from the others:

P_used = min { max { D_city - ( I_used + B_used ) , P_min } , P_prod + P_import }

Then the extra power load added to the city is added by summing B_unused, I_unused, and P_short, where:

B_unused = B_prod - B_used

I_unused = I_prod - I_used

P_short = max { P_min - P_used , 0 }

Hope that helps!

[RobertaME 1,376]

15 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

Hay @RobertaME,

I have 6 more indy style ready, in pics. After checking in the game, the concrete is to dark for what I was hoping for. I was aiming for the medium wealth color and thought this was it. I would like medium because this is used more often and should have the best chance of blending in. ::snip::

Look them over and let me know what you think, or don't like, or would like tweak a little.  I will post them after changes are made, so not to clutter up the system.

PS I altered the first indy lot I made and posted here. So it had cars( I think) and removed some fences with signs with ones without. First one was more of a mock up.

I renamed it thought, so it can coexist.

They look good and blend in with Industrial lots well! Lose the ones with the billboards, though.

Quote

Speaking of blending in, If these are park buildings in essence, then they can be placed anywhere. That would make the parking lots and billboards look out of place. I think it would be best to remove the parking and billboards altogether from these. What do you think or do you have other plans in store, like needing road access?

While they can be placed "anywhere", their NIMBY effect on Commercial and Residential lots will be severe. That pretty much leaves Industrial lots to blend in with. They won't have jobs, need water, or produce garbage, so road access isn't required. (eventually I'd like to make it so that Ind lots are limited without them so they HAVE to be close to them to have their effect, but that's a whole new kettle of code... ;^) )

12 hours ago, Kloudkicker said:

I found a recycling container that just might work for the park lot. I started with a blank lot. I think I used medium wealth grass and things can grow on it. Should I make more like it?

It's not bad... about the right size, shape and color... a bit too rounded on top, but it's a lot better than I can make! I like the fact that it's isolated from the rest of the green space. Yes... more like this one! Maybe one with a playground or other Small Park props? Six or so of each means I can create random plops for them and they only take up one spot in the build menu, but you get variation.

These WILL act like parks, along with a very slight NIMBY effect and can be placed anywhere, but mostly they're meant for residential neighborhoods in lieu of more expensive pole-mounts and street-side pad-mounts. (which have the advantage of having ZERO NIMBY effect and take up no extra space other than the streets you need anyway, but cost more to maintain)

I'm still wanting to know if I should drop Simmer2 and Pegasus's transformer lots and make them really small substations in favor of adding more unique transformers. What does everyone think of that? Here are the lots I'm talking about:

   by @Simmer2      by @Pegasus

Peg's transformer on the right is a little big for what I have it set up to be. I wasn't really happy with it, but it was about all I could find that was a legit transformer. I would have used the transformer on the left in a new lot, but it's not a prop... it's part of the building.

Making them into Distribution Substations adds 2 more to that list for a total of 9. The one on the left would be 500kVA, the smallest you can build, the one on the right would be 1 MVA and take the place of the current 1 MVA lot, bumping it up to 2, then the current 2 to 3, then the current 3 to 5, then the current 5 to 7, then the current 7 to 10, then the 15 and the 25 stay the same as the largest available... like this:

Please let me know your preferences... keep the lots as they are, or move the two lots to Substations.

Thanks!

Edit: Just throwing this out there... there's another lot needed for the mod...

... it needs a Wind Farm Maintenance Facility.

If anyone knows of an exiting lot that looks the part, please provide linkage... otherwise there's an opportunity here for a new lot that can actually do something with my mod...

...it's the prerequisite for building wind turbines!

Thanks for any help!

P.S. Good progress on sorting out the loadbalance.lua today... I think I wrinkled out all the bugs... time will tell...

  Edited February 9, 2021 by RobertaME  
More stuff

[Kloudkicker 4,561]

2 hours ago, RobertaME said:

I'm still wanting to know if I should drop Simmer2 and Pegasus's transformer lots and make them really small substations in favor of adding more unique transformers. What does everyone think of that?

Changing their usage would help bring up the number for substations. Might not be a bad idea. They are a little large in comparison to the transformers.

 

2 hours ago, RobertaME said:

Yes... more like this one! Maybe one with a playground or other Small Park props? Six or so of each means I can create random plops for them and they only take up one spot in the build menu, but you get variation.

These WILL act like parks, along with a very slight NIMBY effect and can be placed anywhere, but mostly they're meant for residential neighborhoods

I will run with it then. Will do.

2 hours ago, RobertaME said:

They look good and blend in with Industrial lots well! Lose the ones with the billboards, though.

Sounds good and easy enough.