Help needed installing SAM (and nothing else)

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

I'd like to be able to use a variety of textures for my streets - the SAM package. However, I can't seem to figure out what to do to make it work.

For some reason, I am unable to run Java on my OS, so I have to install manually. It worked with the NAM's traffic simulator but fails me now. This is part of the problem.

Is there any workaround that I could use?

[rsc204 21,805]

If you can't use Java, I strongly suggest you start by fixing that problem, because without it you've an uphill battle here.

You'll have to install some parts of the NAM to make it work, you'll need at the very least:

• To install the NAM with as few options as it will let you, whilst retaining the SAM Streets.
• Assuming you don't want a full controller, run the Controller Compiler to make a custom version, you can only select SAM and any core components. Otherwise it's a 300MB controller for you.

You could decompress the .jar file, the in-built utility in MacOS does this under Catalina for certain. Then you can bypass the installer, but you really need to know what you are doing for this to work.

On 04/12/2020 at 1:12 PM, Tarkus said:

Users who fundamentally object to installing Java (or are unable to for other reasons) can perform a manual install, with patience. Details can be found here.

You can of course suffer the default controller, although a cut-down version even if still under the circumstances, bloated, can be got from here instead.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

24 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

If you can't use Java, I strongly suggest you start by fixing that problem, because without it you've an uphill battle here.

Is there any Java repository that can help me find an XP pre-EOL compatible installer? The one indcluded in the NAM just won't work.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

I have managed to find a compatible version! Hopefully, the installation will be successful too.

[rsc204 21,805]

I posted one a while back on one of the NAM threads, which I tested on WinXP SP3 32-bit, so I know it can work. But indeed the one included is 64-bit, so unlikely an XP system could run it, but it's compatible with the majority of users systems.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

Well, surprise, surprise...

Crash to desktop on loading a city.

Here's what I installed. Nearing "nothing at all":

Here's what compiler looked like when launched. The options in the compiler look nothing like the ones used in the installation:

Any help or comments are welcome.

I have actually used the "4GB patch" before, when trying to improve performance. Not sure if it plays any role, but I think it's worth mentioning.

[Tarkus 6,932]

The issue is that your Output directory in the Compiler isn’t the same as the directory where the Controller is actually installed in the NAM.  The result is that the giant Controller is still in your Plugins folder, and the game is still trying to load it, causing the crashes.  If you’re on 32-bit Windows, the 4GB Patch is of no use.

The NAM Controller is installed in either the z_NAM Controller_RHD or z_NAM Controller_LHD (depending on drive side) subfolder in the NAM installation directory.  The NAM is also installed by default into the My Documents Plugins folder, not the Plugins folder in the game’s installation directory.  I don’t know if you changed everything to go over to the latter, but the My Documents one is strongly recommended for pretty much 99.99% of anything you might download (with just a very few exceptions).

I’ll also note that some of the unchecked features there have INRUL triggers that are installed by default (mostly on the Road, One-Way Road, and Avenue side, with their default base feature set), so you might encounter some bad draws with those in certain instances.

With the way some stuff is interlinked, certain combos of installation options (particularly limited ones) can be difficult to pull off without considerable care.

-Tarkus

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

3 hours ago, Tarkus said:

With the way some stuff is interlinked, certain combos of installation options (particularly limited ones) can be difficult to pull off without considerable care.

This is why I ask for directions on installing SAM. NAM lite is really, very needed...

I didn't know that the folder has to be the same. I'll also try to reinstall to "My documents" and let you guys know how it went.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

Hard to believe, but it looks like I succeeded. Everything seems to work. But I still have a few issues that I'd like you to help me resolve.

First and foremost, the placement of the SAM pieces is, for some reason, restricted. For instance, I can never place the last, missing piece of a street if there is anything in the way that obstructs the cursor. Here's what I'm talking about:

Another issue is the fact that whenever I'd like to place a small roundabout (just testing it) a tile preceding the roundabout gets instantly demolished. In fact, that happens with the SAM streets too. Here are two shots, before and after:

 

Again, a kind request for your comments and advice.

[Tarkus 6,932]

Thrilled to see it's working for you!  To answer your question about that tile getting demolished, that's what is known as a Vanishing Construction Lot (VCL).  It's something that exists on all Starter Pieces (i.e. the SAM Starter Pieces) and FLEX Pieces (i.e. the Single-Tile Roundabout). 

When the VCL is placed on top of an existing network tile, it will cause that tile to disappear, as you've encountered.  However, that tile is not obstructed, but rather, completely open, and unless there's some other intervening reason why (unsuitable terrain, or "prevent" code to prevent certain setups from being built--and those are specific to certain situations), you should be able to drag the Road or Street network back through the blanked out tile, and re-establish the connection.

As for why that is, ploppable network items all have to have at least one "static" tile in order to be placed, and that's even if they're being used to place non-static items (i.e. things which can interact with the network content surrounding them, which Starter and FLEX Pieces can do, but standard puzzle pieces can't).  It used to be that we had a Construction Lot on these that had to be bulldozed, but 8 years ago, during NAM 31 development, memo figured out a way to make the Construction Lot self-destruct--I refined it a little bit further, and it's been the standard since that time.  Hence, the VCL was born.  The Disconnector feature (a more controlled bulldozer for network tiles) that Ganaram Inukshuk developed a couple years later is a further extension of this technology.

1 hour ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

This is why I ask for directions on installing SAM. NAM lite is really, very needed...

Indeed, NAM Lite (or something of that nature) is definitely still on the table.  The big question with it, of course, is how "lite" does it need to be?  The proposal that seems to have the most traction is something which is nothing more than the Traffic Simulator, the key fixes, and maybe a couple of very small features (the Roundabouts and Diagonal Streets, for instance), while leaving out anything much larger than that.  It'd basically be designed such that we would rarely (if ever) have to update it.

The SAM, while not being particularly complex to use--only occupying a single menu button with 12 items on the TAB Loop--is of a pretty decent size on the backend (~40MB as of NAM 39), has a fairly substantial codebase (around 100,000 lines of RUL2 code), and is very much in active development, with new content added in NAM 38, and more coming in NAM 40.  It's not nearly of the scale of the RHW (which actually dwarfs the rest of the NAM on its own), but it's most likely beyond the intended scope of the NAM Lite package.

In a situation such as yours, which is in the middle, what's more likely to happen is some refinements to the full-blast NAM to make such a la carte installs less likely to run into "encapsulation issues", wherein you end up with active code for features that did not end up getting installed, leading to bad draws, red arrows, and other such "mix-and-match" issues.  That's something which can be surprisingly tricky for us to prevent from happening, given how the game's file structure and crosslinkage forces us to structure things. 

That all being said, the fact that we're making much more frequent releases is allowing us to respond much more actively to trends with regards to technical support and installation issues, and to user feedback.

-Tarkus

[rsc204 21,805]

2 hours ago, Tarkus said:

you should be able to drag the Road or Street network back through the blanked out tile, and re-establish the connection

Reading the OP's problems, I wonder if you are placing many single "starters", rather than just one, then dragging street through it.

14 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Here's what I installed. Nearing "nothing at all":

You won't need the TLA Center Turn Arrows, since you have not installed any of the TLA networks (NWM). But otherwise, yes that's about as minimal as the installer gets, at least automatically.

14 hours ago, TheMurderousCricket said:

Crash to desktop on loading a city.

Full NAM Controller + 32-bit Windows (i.e. no LAA or 4GB Patch in use) leads to this, your computer simply can't handle the full controller of NAM 37 and beyond. I linked to a cut-down controller that Tarkus uploaded to the NAM DropBox, so you don't have to use the Controller Compiler, perhaps you missed this?:

16 hours ago, rsc204 said:

You can of course suffer the default controller, although a cut-down version even if still under the circumstances, bloated, can be got from here instead.

[TheMurderousCricket 5,044]

3 hours ago, Tarkus said:

Thrilled to see it's working for you! 

I am relieved too! Thank you for the information you have provided - it helped me to better understand the installation intricacies. I was able to track all the steps back and correct a few problems. Good input.

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Reading the OP's problems, I wonder if you are placing many single "starters", rather than just one, then dragging street through it.

Hehe, this is exactly what I did. I thought this was actually the way it works. Looks like it isn't. Silly me. 

[rsc204 21,805]

Older puzzle pieces work like that, one per item/tile. But hopefully you can see how a flex-starter is much better. Once you start drawing away from it, you have curves, junctions, including with roads/ave/owr and many more SAM pieces that can be created, like making normal streets. 

[Tarkus 6,932]

The SAM Feature Guide from the NAM Documentation might also be of use for you.  Aside from the "installation" section (which still shows the old installer), everything else should be pretty much up-to-date.

-Tarkus