Lot Editor difference between Save and Save As

[simnewbie 7]

i hate to bother you guys with this, but on the Lot Editor, what is the difference between "save" and "save as"? 

I like to edit lots from the game (not from st exchange) and i am just curious.

if i hit the "save" button, does it replace the in-game lot? or do i hit the "save as"

 

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

Hi simnewbie,

It's a good question is this, and there does happen to be a difference between both saving options in the Maxis Lot Editor.

Basically it all comes down to instances. Using the Save function is a way to override the same lot as being edited. So for example, if opening a standard RCI lot and changing a few props around and swapping textures, if pressing Save and that lot will be overridden by your custom lotted file. Otherwise if going for Save As and this means it'll create a brand new separate lot (as defined with new IIDs in the exemplars). The result is another lot is available as either a growable or ploppable.

By default when saving from the Maxis LE either way, the opened lot will be the same type as it belongs to.

So a CS$ building will still be a low wealth commercial service, and just another instance added to the pool of growables the game can select from. For ploppables like a Landmark and the same applies also with how it'll inherit the properties which the original edited lot had. All these can be modified when editing the Buildings exemplar using Reader 0.9.3 (which might need adding manually since LE doesn't include it). Using the LEProp is a useful way to do this using a quick and easy GUI tool.

A tool which is preferred by some for lotting and exemplar category creation is the PIM-X tool.

I'm not an expert at this personally, though have used it for creating the exemplars and then doing the rest in the Maxis LE since I'm more familiar with it. For the PIM-X though, it has a much more powerful lot editor of its own as the user guide goes into detail explaining.

Hope this helps, and do keep asking if unsure of anything.

(As a side note, no worries but I've moved your topic into the BAT & Lot Workshop forum since I feel it'll be better suited there.)

[simnewbie 7]

hey bro thank you for the reply

quick question man. exemplar files are like the descriptor files right? or no? cuz, i plugged a prop pack (building prop pack) and when i went in to the lot editor, the buildings were not showing up on the prop section of the lot editor (the buildings were not showing up, but the little things did, like the sign and all that stuff) . So, I opened up Ilive Reader and opened that particular prop pack and I went through each entry and I noticed something. the little stuff that were showing up on the lot editor had an exemplar file, but the buildings did not have an exemplar file.

So,  I opened the plug-in manager, I dragged the model file to the prop side of lot editor (there were several model files) and it created a descriptor file. so i clicked on the descriptor file and changed some of the parameters (more questions on that later about the parameters). Then, I went back to iLive Reader, and copied the exemplar file from the descriptor file and pasted it on the prop pack(DAT) file. I saved it the prop pack (it was a trial run, I only played around with a copied DAT file).

Then after that, I went back to the lot editor, and there it is, the building was on the prop list. 

My question is, was that the right way? will i run into any problems in the simulation

Thanks bro!!

[simnewbie 7]

also, i should also mention that there is a descriptor file for that particular prop pack. it's on another file that I downloaded. the downloaded file contained several lot files and one descriptor file. so i started playing with the descriptor file

I opened the ilive reader and ran the prop pack(new copy).and I also ran the descriptor file. I copy the exemplar file from the descriptor file and pasted it on the prop pack and saved it.

Then, I went back to the lot editor, and saw the building in the "buildings tab"

do you think my first method will give me problems in the simulations? as far as changing parameters, I didn't changed much stuff. I'm still learning that side. I"m trying to gauge the realism of some the numbers on the parameters. is there a guide on that? cuz, some of the residential lots in the simulation and the lots from the st exchange are not very realistic. 

Thanks bro

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

1 hour ago, simnewbie said:

hey bro thank you for the reply

quick question man. exemplar files are like the descriptor files right? or no? cuz, i plugged a prop pack (building prop pack) and when i went in to the lot editor, the buildings were not showing up on the prop section of the lot editor (the buildings were not showing up, but the little things did, like the sign and all that stuff) . So, I opened up Ilive Reader and opened that particular prop pack and I went through each entry and I noticed something. the little stuff that were showing up on the lot editor had an exemplar file, but the buildings did not have an exemplar file.

So,  I opened the plug-in manager, I dragged the model file to the prop side of lot editor (there were several model files) and it created a descriptor file. so i clicked on the descriptor file and changed some of the parameters (more questions on that later about the parameters). Then, I went back to iLive Reader, and copied the exemplar file from the descriptor file and pasted it on the prop pack(DAT) file. I saved it the prop pack (it was a trial run, I only played around with a copied DAT file).

Then after that, I went back to the lot editor, and there it is, the building was on the prop list. 

My question is, was that the right way? will i run into any problems in the simulation

Thanks bro!!

Dear simnewbie,

Nice to meet you, I'm Ray, I'm not an expert, I'm sure that other experts will be able to give a much more coherent explanation for this, but what I know is, You did right there, whereas you needn't to copy and paste that exemplar file which generated by PIM, you can put it together with your model file, then those could be read by the game as also Loteditor.

With my understanding, Exemplar File is more complicated than this, It describes the instances of SimCity 4. most parameters and algorithms are stored inside. I thought an exemplar of Lot which defines the property of images and functions. So it is an essential part of LOT, and most of them, they at least contains one LotConfiguations and a Building type Exemplar File, which functions invoking other SC4Files. In- short, I thought the Exemplar File is the center of Lot.

I hardly used 'Save' in Loteditor, Instead, I often use 'Save as', There were some issues came with 'Save' which I experienced, Such as sometimes I didn't quit the Loteditor while opened the same Lot again, then some odd stuffs happened, So I personal suggest you to use 'Save as'.

There is also an article about Loteditor in omibus, Lot editor tutorial, I hope it helps as well, There was also an article wrote by Jasoncw, But Sorry that I couldn't found out it now.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

BTW, I also have more words about your other questions, but because of my poor English whilst I'm still a pretty newbie, Please forgive me that I could only answer those above. I just hope those could be helpful, Thank you.

Appendix resources: 

Exemplar properties

Modding Made Easy: A Beginner's Guide

SC4 Container Files, Game Files and File Relations

 

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

In addition to the excellent reply @Raymond7cn made above...
 

2 hours ago, simnewbie said:

exemplar files are like the descriptor files right? or no?

Yes, they are indeed. Descriptor files (those with the .SC4Desc file extension) are what the Maxis PIM generates when dragging a model across into a category. The extension on the file doesn't matter, and it's still a Buildings exemplar on the inside all the same.

The method to copy properties into a .dat file is perfectly fine because these are all container files (see the link Raymond posted above). That topic contains some useful info on the file formats for SC4 custom content, and this structure is what makes everything work. For what the game can understand, providing it loads correctly and it should all be fine. Using the DataNode tool which @rivit created is a great way of being certain too for how it displays loading order and identifies conflicts, etc.

A little thing to mention when editing in Reader...

When copying properties over, one thing I recommend (in two steps) is to right click the left hand pane and choose:

1. Rebuild Directory file
   Then
2. ReIndex

When using Reader 0.9.3 this happens automatically upon saving.

This rebuilds the DIR file entry which is an index for storing reference info on how compressed entries should be handled. If there are no compressed entries should they be N in the column, there doesn't need to be a DIR file at all though. So just something to be mindful of when there is (which often depends on file formats).

In terms of exemplar properties to edit, there are a whole number of them as listed on this page at the SC4Devotion Wiki.

One key thing to remember is how not all properties apply to particular items of content. Some will seem logical, and others often take some experimentation.

There'll be those like Water Pollution which can be set for all or the vast majority of lots (in the right side pane from the "Add property" option). Others though might be more for modding the game or applicable to other things like props for time of day appearance, etc. This is where experimentation comes in to tweak and test individual properties and values to see what they do. Not all will be useful, but oftentimes it's possible to be creative and come up with new ways to modify lots.

A fine example of this is what @CorinaMarie did in her Growable Residential Freight End Point Tutorial.

All in all there's many possibilities, and it just depends on what you'd like to pursue. It sounds like you've got a good grasp on the right idea, and to be interested in lotting and modding opens up a whole new area to explore SC4 in a new world really. One could say it's a game inside a game (that isn't even a "game" really).

By the way, this might be a useful tutorial as well to explore the basics of growable and ploppable lots: MGB's My First Mod Tutorial

 

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

When using Reader 0.9.3 this happens automatically upon saving.

I just know this, Thank you CB, It will save me a lot of time.

Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

Hi Raymond, I just realised I'd forgotten to reply to this part of your post earlier:
 

5 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

I hardly used 'Save' in Loteditor, Instead, I often use 'Save as', There were some issues came with 'Save' which I experienced, Such as sometimes I didn't quit the Loteditor while opened the same Lot again, then some odd stuffs happened, So I personal suggest you to use 'Save as'.

In case it might help @simnewbie also, I think for this I know what the issue might've been here.

As you may know, saving a lot in the LE causes it to be written directly inside of one's Plugins folder, which means it never gets saved inside any subfolders at all. Therefore if opening a lot which is contained in a subfolder, once saving this and it'll then appear outside of this in Plugins directly.

Using the Save option I've found does work fine, but it's important to remember how the original lot might still be overriding. This means if choosing another lot in the "Choose Lot to Edit" menu after clicking the Save button, then once reloading the previous lot and the changes won't appear.

I've noticed how it needs the Lot Editor restarting, and once making sure the lot is the only one being loaded and the changes will appear again. This means for editing purposes using the Maxis LE, it's worth keeping a single copy of any lots inside of Plugins and in no subfolders. Then make any edits to those only using Save to update changes, and afterwards it can be modified using Reader to add or change exemplar properties, or anything in the "LotConfigurations" exemplar also if needed.

So in summary:

• Once editing a lot, use Save As if wanting to create a new instance. Use the Save button if preferring an override to the same lot.
• Then exit Lot Editor and check that only one copy of the lot is there (in any folder).
• All subfolders can be loaded, but only the root of Plugins is written to (where the lots are saved).
• After making sure it's the only file loaded, using Save can be done for editing new changes to that lot file.
• Once finished, editing the file in Reader (or LEProp) allows editing the lot properties as desired.

 

Note: The LD file and the larger PNG file (preview of the lot) can be deleted from the file entries.

These were only used for the old EA lot exchange for when people could upload their works to be shared (similar in a way to the STEX). The icon strip is only needed for ploppable lots also, and it can be replaced for growables (the LEProp tool is useful for this).

 

2 hours ago, Raymond7cn said:

I just know this, Thank you CB, It will save me a lot of time.

You're welcome, Raymond.

For me personally I still like to do this anyway since I'm in the habit of it, but as long as a lot functions properly in game and it'll have worked fine. That's where testing is important too whenever creating custom content.

There is something I'll just mention...

For the "LotConfigurations" file entry where it has this option:
 

 

Usually this isn't necessary. But this does need to be done if adding or removing LotConfig entries where the lot data is stored.

For example, if copying over LotConfigPropertyLotObjectData entries from one lot to another, it'd need this doing to ensure the entries are in a valid sequentially ordered way. The same also if deleting any of these entries within, and otherwise it won't be in order since there'll be one or more gaps. That's when doing the Reindex LotConfig is needed, and this doesn't happen automatically unlike the Directory (DIR) File in the main list. Otherwise it can cause a crash in game when plopping the lot.

So just some additional lotting/modding info I thought might be useful also.

[Raymond7cn 6,772]

After making sure it's the only file loaded, using Save can be done for editing new changes to that lot file

The icon strip is only needed for ploppable lots also, and it can be replaced for growables (the LEProp tool is useful for this).

Dear CB, I learnt a lot from you, Thank you. I thought your thorough tips are also useful to simnewbie. I have put some useful information into my notebook.

27 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Usually this isn't necessary. But this does need to be done if adding or removing LotConfig entries where the lot data is stored.

I still remember this, when we discussed my CAN-AM issue, because of my carelessness, I misunderstood this part which Robin taught me to tweak the T21 exemplars, Then I reindexed every lines I tweaked until Cori and you reminded me that unnecessary to do that everywhere. Thanks again here. I'm extremely grateful and honor to be here with people who were full of love and other good qualities. Well, enough babbling, I should stop ruining the moment of simnewbie's thread. Thank you.

Yours Sincerely,

-- Raymond

[simnewbie 7]

Thank you guys for all the response! great help