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A very nice tutorial, thanks for sharing. :thumb:
 
(Maybe it would be worth being pinned in the SC4 Modding - Open Discussion forum).

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    A very nice tutorial, thanks for sharing. :thumb:

     

    (Maybe it would be worth being pinned in the SC4 Modding - Open Discussion forum).

     

    Thanks!

     

    I would be happy to see it pinned somewhere.  There isn't a guide like this on the site anymore, I felt this could be very useful.

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    Yes to the Omnibus, but leave a link here.

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    Very nice tutorial.

     

    If the Reader doesn't accept a value change, it sometimes helps to just remove the old value (the whole line) first and add a new one afterwards.

     

    Also, you hinted at it, but I would stress the point much more: Modding civics can evoke the phantom slider bug. In the words of Paeng:

     

     

    Just a friendly reminder:

    As with all civic buildings, their wrong use can result in the Phantom Slider Bug!

    This bug will be triggered by

    * uninstalling a civic building and/or
    * modding the capacity or monthly costs of a civic building
    without demolishing all instances of it first!

     

     

    So, if you make any funding or capacity change that is supposed to alter civics buildings you already use (like all Maxis originals), you will probably cause this bug to rear its ugly head. if you don't demolish every instance of that building in your game first. This is true for all buildings where you can adjust funding with sliders in the building query. Your experience that the building reset to max funding is the harmless variant. They may also get stuck at zero funding.

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    Interesting tutorial.

     

    Thanks to this I realized there is a newer version of iLive Reader than the one available on STEX. The older one doesn't have the "Display as" option, and I don't understand all the hex number, that what deterred me from trying (I don't have much determination anyway :P). Now I have v1.4 and managed to change the jobs distribution in SPAM.

     

    +1 for you, sir.

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    Very nice tutorial.

     

    If the Reader doesn't accept a value change, it sometimes helps to just remove the old value (the whole line) first and add a new one afterwards.

     

    Also, you hinted at it, but I would stress the point much more: Modding civics can evoke the phantom slider bug.

     

    Thanks for helping me understand that bug.  I knew adjusting those values caused a bug, I didn't know (or remember) I could avoid it by bulldozing all hospital first.  I mentioned it more as an example of a problem someone could run into, rather then exploring its cause/solution.

     

    Interesting tutorial.

    Thanks to this I realized there is a newer version of iLive Reader than the one available on STEX. The older one doesn't have the "Display as" option, and I don't understand all the hex number, that what deterred me from trying (I don't have much determination anyway :P). Now I have v1.4 and managed to change the jobs distribution in SPAM.

    +1 for you, sir.

     

    I'm glad this helped you!

     

    My original link to the reader was for 'v0.9.3' because that is the only one on the STEX (as of this posting).  I also know about some issues found in 'v1.4' that have many people still using the old version.  So I had pointed readers of this guide towards the old version originally.  

     

    I am using 'v1.4' as you noted.  As such I have gone back into the guide and redirected the link to 'v1.4', noting which version I used.  The process is the same in both readers, just that you have to do manual hexadecimal conversion yourself in .0.9.3; the 'display as' option doesn't exist in the old version as you say.

     

    Thanks for the feedback!

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    Just a friendly reminder:

    As with all civic buildings, their wrong use can result in the Phantom Slider Bug!

    This bug will be triggered by

    * uninstalling a civic building and/or

    * modding the capacity or monthly costs of a civic building

    without demolishing all instances of it first!

     

     

    So, if you make any funding or capacity change that is supposed to alter civics buildings you already use (like all Maxis originals), you will probably cause this bug to rear its ugly head. if you don't demolish every instance of that building in your game first. This is true for all buildings where you can adjust funding with sliders in the building query. Your experience that the building reset to max funding is the harmless variant. They may also get stuck at zero funding.

     

    When I first read this I thought maybe I had just been lucky for the example in my guide.  I thought maybe 6000 just wasn't a number that triggered the bug.  However, I don't think capacity change 'can' cause this bug,  not with the hospitals anyway. 

     

    Based on your info I just spent a while trying to make the bug appear by changing capacity.  With each test I tried different capacity numbers and allowed the game to simulate a year or so on cheetah.  The hospitals had already been there before each test, and most had custom sliders settings in place.  The sliders stayed in place in all cases, also the budget panel remained correct.

     

    I tried many different variables, choosing numbers to cover different bases:  sequential, odd, even, smaller then default, larger then default, and way over default :

     

    -adjusted 'catalog capacity' by itself to: 1234, 3456, 7219, 8000, 50000

     

    -adusted 'hospital patient capacity' by itself to:1234, 3456, 7219, 8000, 50000

     

    -adjusted both capacities simultaneously to: 1234, 3456, 7219, 8000, 50000

     

    In all cases the game didn't have a problem with the funding.  I was checking on about 8 hospitals in my city.

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    Ok, so you think it's cost-based only? Did you make tests with that? Also, as with many bugs, you may be lucky and just not experience it, for whatever reason. I guess the recommendation that is generally given for civics plugins involving existing buildings is that, as long as they are not an ingame reward,  it's safer to make a new exemplar from the changed building.

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    Ok, so you think it's cost-based only? Did you make tests with that? Also, as with many bugs, you may be lucky and just not experience it, for whatever reason. I guess the recommendation that is generally given for civics plugins involving existing buildings is that, as long as they are not an ingame reward,  it's safer to make a new exemplar from the changed building.

    My post directly above yours addressed exactly those tests for capacity.  Previously on my own i had tried many variations of budget changes.. they all make the bug appear.  I tried way more tests with budget cost then capacity, and couldn't prevent it from occurring with budget. 

     

    I'm glad i know i can change the budget costs by bulldozing all of em first.  I guess i should have thought of trying that.

     

    Covering the existence of the 'phantom slider bug' and how to avoid it is good information for a beginners guide.  I'm glad you brought it up, thanks!

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    my post directly above yours addressed exactly those tests for capacity.  previously on my own i had tried many variations of budget changes.. they all make the bug appear.  i tried way more tests with budget cost then capacity, and couldn't prevent it from occurring with budget. 

     

    oh, and i'm glad i know i can change the budget costs by bulldozing all of em first.  i guess i should have thought of trying that.

     

    Good tests. Makes everything clear :).

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    I tried working some things, but I couldn't bring up that "Patch Manager" window...


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    Can you describe the problem exactly? Did you click, and no window opened? What exactly did you do, and what exactly did or did not happen?


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    I right-clicked and added my changes to the patch, and according to the guide, a window was supposed to come up at that point, but it didn't, and I couldn't create a new .dat based on my changes.


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    I right-clicked and added my changes to the patch, and according to the guide, a window was supposed to come up at that point, but it didn't, and I couldn't create a new .dat based on my changes.

    In step 10:  you right-click the hospital, then click 'add to patch', then you must click the 'patch manager' button that was previously greyed out.  When you click 'add to patch' the 'patch manager' doesn't open automatically because it assumes you might want to add more items to it.  You can close the navigator window after clicking 'add to patch' if you want; the item has already been added to 'patch manager'.

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    This is said elsewhere, but relevant here:  With the Extra Cheats Plugin DLL, you can use it as a debug tool for mods you have created.  I call it advanced query.  You can check on a building's power and water consumption even when it isn't normally reported.  Or you can check on the number of jobs being supplied by a building: broken down by wealth type.  Among other things.  You do this by holding down ctrl+shift+alt while hovering on a building with the query tool selected (assuming the .dll is installed).

    BXYhIFg.jpg

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    You do this by holding down ctrl+shift+alt while clicking on a building with the query tool selected (assuming the .dll is installed).

     

    Minor correction:  This works only if you have the query tool selected and hover over the building, but do not click on it.  If you click on the building and then try this, nothing happens.  Also, if you have this display on and then click on the building, the display goes away.

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    You do this by holding down ctrl+shift+alt while clicking on a building with the query tool selected (assuming the .dll is installed).

     

    Minor correction:  This works only if you have the query tool selected and hover over the building, but do not click on it.  If you click on the building and then try this, nothing happens.  Also, if you have this display on and then click on the building, the display goes away.

     

    lol, you are right.  hover is what I meant to say.  people would have realized that on their way to click anyway.

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    Fantastic guide, I'm going to try this! Thank you.

    Unfortunately ilives reader doesn't work for me, each time I click "navigation" it stops responding and closes the program.

    Scrap that, finally I have it working, does anybody know of a good converter for the binary code? I found this http://www.binaryconvert.com but not 100% sure if it's what I need.

    Sorry I write so much rubbish :)

    Anna

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    Welcome to Simtropolis!

     

    For the Reader, I think you want a hexadecimal converter.  Assuming you're using a recent version of Windows, the Windows calculator is fine for this job.  Just go into Programmer Mode (View->Programmer or Alt-3).  Then you can type in numbers and convert between hex and decimal either with the radio buttons on the left or with the F5 and F6 keys.

     

    Sorry I write so much rubbish :)

     

    You have two short posts here, with no rubbish to be found anywhere!  You are simply using these forums for the purpose for which they are intended. :golly:

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    I'm using Windows 8. Is there a limit to the values which are edited? Like a maximum or can it be any amount? I'll check out the calculator, thanks.

    I not sure I make sense as I rely on machine translation.

    Anna.

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    Being a newbie, I found a newbie stumbling block to beware of:

     

    After navigating to a building and double-clicking on a property, the controls on the property dialog box (e.g. the "Set" button) may be frustratingly gray and stay that way. If so, then the building's "parent cohort" (immediately under the building's name in the navigator) may offer editable versions of the same properties.

     

    After editing one of those (a water pollution radius), I see the parent's new value reflected in the building's properties (I smell O-O inheritance). I am about to find out if editing such a parent is a "bad idea". If you never see me in the forums again, it's because my computer blew up  ;)


    -- Jeff Fisher ><> Vancouver WA
    "I may be pissing into the wind, but if I keep my enemies behind me and aim carefully, I can still rain on their parade."

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    It can't be THAT bad. :lol:

     

    As the name suggests and as you already guessed, a parent cohort is used to store some values that all its "children" (=objects assigned to this parent cohort) will share. So if you had value X of a particular building in mind, value X for this building is derived from a parent cohort, and you modify value X in the parent cohort, then there may be other buildings for whom value X has also changed because they hook into the same parent cohort. Unless you set totally extreme values, this shouldn't blow up anything.


    -=| You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice ||| If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice |=-
    -=| You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill ||| I will choose a path that's clear - I will choose free will |=-

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    Well, I'm still here, but I don't think my change took hold. Either I got the wrong exemplar or else something hiding at the end of my plugins folder is overriding my work (or SPAM somehow misspelled a critical ID in its Jez Knight Acres mod... or CAM changed something in a way that defeats the later SPAM mod).

     

    One of the perils of modding is that one may do the right edit with the tool, but that edit might do nothing because another file hides its value(s). If I ever figure out why exactly one farm is polluting my water, then I'll have learned a thing or two about how this game works.

     

    Is there a tool that can analyze an entire plugin folder to tell what defs are going to be used (and what dat file each comes from)? Maybe I can datpack the whole folder and then edit that...


    -- Jeff Fisher ><> Vancouver WA
    "I may be pissing into the wind, but if I keep my enemies behind me and aim carefully, I can still rain on their parade."

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