The Edge's city building discussion thread

[The Edge 215]

Evening,

I've just started a new city and am finding it quite difficult to attract high-tech companies to the industrial area. I have good transport links (road/rail) and planted about a billion trees to encourage them. However I seem to have a large majority of dirty industry popping up - which I don't want. I've raised taxes on dirty industry to 20% and then un-zoned/re-zoned them, only for the advisor (Neil what's-his-face) to say that "High taxes sees industries fleeing" - and the industrial tiles sit vacant.

I also have some high-tech buildings that get abandoned due to low demand. How on earth can I get industrial demand to be, well, good?

I can supply screenshots if required.

Thanks in advance

 

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

What is the average EQ (Education Quotient) in your city?

[Vigilante1987 180]

High Tech Industry demands highly educated sims.  Assuming you have the basics, (grade school, high school and city college) remember to plop a few libraries and museums.

[twalsh102 1,601]

What does the air pollution data view look like where you want I-HT to grow?  I-HT has a very high aversion to air pollution.  I-M is not pollution-free.  If you have more than just a few I-M in the area where you want I-HT to grow, they will create enough pollution to cause I-HT to abandon, or not to grow at all.  I-HT has essentially the same desirability factors as R$$$.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Maybe plopping Area 52 would help? And consider the IRM so zoning can control dirty vs clean industry.

[The Edge 215]

9 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

What is the average EQ (Education Quotient) in your city?

How do I determine that? I do have a fair few schools and libraries - all residential areas are covered by a school/high school/college.

The IRM thing looked interesting but I think might muck up too many zones as it says it resizes them all. And Area 52? Aliens?

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

20 minutes ago, The Edge said:

How do I determine that?

That can be found in the graphs.

1. Click on the Graphs button.
2. Click on the Education option.

 

To check pollution, use a data overylay:

1. Click the Data View button.
2. Click Air Pollution option.
3. (Optional) Click the little up triangle in the upper left of the data view window to expand it.

^ Note: The colors you see in your game will likely be different as I have a custom mod installed.

[The Edge 215]

Okay, I think I found it. Hopefully this helps? I also attached the zone demand graph as well.

[The Edge 215]

Forgot to add, air pollution. The industrial sector is in the left of this image. The dirty industry is where all the pollution is really bad, manufacturing and high tech just below (where the pollution is almost non-existent).

[The Edge 215]

Does this look normal (or not) to anyone?

[Lucario Boricua 7,029]

Air pollution looks very much as expected, but of course your industrial parks are too filled with dirty and manufacturing buildings that they still generate unacceptabily high levels of pollution.

 

Also make sure to try the following:

* Enact both the Clean Air Act and the Automobile Emissions Reduction ordinances

* Open the Jobs and Population graph--it may be the case that your city does not have enough upper and middle class residents to sustain an appropriate hi-tech workforce

* For how long have you enacted the high education and pollution controls? Let the city simulation run for 5 years to try and redefine conditions

* Do other neighboring cities lack, or have abundant dirty/manufacturing industry in place? It could be the case that you need to relocate the jobs associated with those demands before the RCI demands are in line with fostering hi-tech industries.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

Based on the EQ it looks like your city is just shy of the 160 EQ which starts to create demand for High Tech. However, it is above the 120 threshold for Manufacturing and that also shows low in your demand graph. What are the tax rates for I-M and I-H? Another thing to check would be whether or not you need cap relief for industrial.

Do you have the Census Repository Facility, Ver. 3.1? There's one building in that which can be plopped right away (and another as a reward building). Both provide a detailed summary of many of the game aspects when the building is queried. It might be quite helpful to post a picture of the screen from the Census Repository.

[powerfullshammy 81]

My tip start a city that can sustain it's self 1st like farming one with Simpeg Agricoltural mod or SPAM with commercial. The commercial will maintain schools and other civic buildings and Farms will bring in population to your 1st city then after the High Tech and Medium Industry RCI is high you can now start next 2nd city for medium and High industry without housing your 1st city will maintain workers for the industrial city. Don't forget to tax 20% - 40% Dirty industry and don't forget to connect them together

[The Edge 215]

Lucario Boricua and Corina: thanks both for the tips. I've attached the Jobs/Population graph over the last 10 years (city is only 34 years old so probably not much good with the 50 year graph). I also tried the census thing and got a very interesting panel but not 100% sure how to read it - are you able to decipher them for me please? Thank you

 

[The Edge 215]

After playing for about a year or so, here's how the census thing looks now.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

1 hour ago, The Edge said:

After playing for about a year or so, here's how the census thing looks now.

I've zoomed in and cropped out the part I really wanted to see:

^ This shows that you have plenty of room to grow High Tech Industry without the cap holding you back.

 

I believe the next thing I would do is crank up the game speed to Cheetah while watching the EQ graph set to the 10 year scale. With the education facilities you have in place it's prolly just a matter of time for the Sims to get smarter overall. About every 5 years switch to the Demand Graph and see how High Tech is looking.

[The Edge 215]

Thanks Corina. Dumb question, but what does CAP mean?

And once I've sped it up to Cheetah (for a year or so? Is that right?) if the Dirty industry buildings are still standing, do I just demolish them and see what happens, or do they become High-Tech on their own? Alternatively, do I need to de-zone them and re-zone them to make sure they turn into High-Tech?
Note that I got rid of all the farm zones - are they bad for High-Tech as well, or should I leave them there?

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

1 hour ago, The Edge said:

what does CAP mean?

It's like a ceiling or upper limit you cannot go beyond until something raises the limit. So if the CAP were at 100% then that itself would completely stifle demand. The chart from the Census Repository shows this is not the problem at all.

 

1 hour ago, The Edge said:

And once I've sped it up to Cheetah (for a year or so? Is that right?)

For the test, I'd run about 25 years or so. Just crank up the speed and watch the EQ graph. We are looking for the overall EQ to go above 160 and stay there. Ideally 175 or more. It'll be when the EQ has rising sufficiently that tells you the time frame to run.

 

1 hour ago, The Edge said:

if the Dirty industry buildings are still standing, do I just demolish them and see what happens, or do they become High-Tech on their own? Alternatively, do I need to de-zone them and re-zone them to make sure they turn into High-Tech?

If you are trying to grow the High Tech where the current Dirty Industry is located, then yes, it'd be best to bulldoze them. No need to re-zone tho. And be sure the area is watered. I'd also plop down some park items, but hold off on that until the EQ is up. Open Grass or Plazas or Flower Gardens should work well. Basically, the area needs to be appealing to the High Tech.

 

1 hour ago, The Edge said:

Note that I got rid of all the farm zones - are they bad for High-Tech as well, or should I leave them there?

The farms can stay. I'm fairly certain they won't bother High Tech because farms only create water pollution rather than air pollution.

[twalsh102 1,601]

12 hours ago, The Edge said:

The dirty industry is where all the pollution is really bad, manufacturing and high tech just below (where the pollution is almost non-existent).

"Almost non-existent" is not the same as doesn't exist.  In my experience, if there is any pollution at all, it can be enough to stymie I-HT growth.

From the Prima Guide for SC4 Deluxe: 

"HIGH-TECH INDUSTRY
High-Tech’s clean running character and heightened similarity to Commercial Office is reflected in what it finds attractive. Unlike other Industrial Sims, High-Tech Sims hate pollution
and like nice views from their windows. Factors that draw them are:
• Air Pollution (low)
• Crime (low)
• Land Value (high)
• Trip Length (short, to Neighbor Connection/Seaport/Airport)
• Res. NIMBY/YIMBY Effect
• Slope (flat)"

While planting " about a billion trees" would do a credible job as far as trying to soak up pollution, planting a tree (as opposed to plopping a park that contains trees) in and of itself does not provide any YIMBY effects.  You need a copy of the Prima Guide (available here for free: https://archive.org/details/SimCity_4_Rush_Hour_Prima_Official_eGuide ) to get a list of all the lots that provide Residential YIMBY effects (look in Chapter 10:  Desirability). 

Another issue will eventually be Taxes.  Since you've set Taxes for I-HT to 0%, whenever you get I-HT development going and want to increase taxes again, you're going to suffer the maximum demand hit (-350% ) for raising taxes any amount above 0% for a period of 90 days (game clock).  Once you get the Prima Guide, look in Chapter 6:  Demand, and read the section titled:  Demand and Taxes.

Another possibility to take air pollution at least partially, if not completely out of the picture, depending on your playing style:  download and plop one of the several "Air Purification" lots that exist.

My favorites:

GooberGen Air Purification:  https://www.sc4devotion.com/csxlex/lex_filedesc.php?lotGET=1968

[SD40-2 36]

In one of my cities, while I provided sufficient education facilitates, the evolution happened extremely slowly, as other people have mentioned. Quite a few Industrial - Dirty places closed down, leaving mostly Industrial - Medium, with a few touches of High Tech buildings. (Yes, I did have the Clean Air Ordinance active.)

Speaking of land value, colleges have a rather interesting affect on land value. Mansions tended to huddle around it like some sort of weird idol.

Edit: Forgot to mention one thing, my farms were off in the distance away from the dirty industrial. Not sure if that mattered, but it kept the air pollution away from them.

[The Edge 215]

Thanks for all the tips, looks like education has gone past 160 now and I'm slowly getting demand back for Industrial zones again. Still got a couple of stray dirty industry zones somewhere but I'll track them down. I also reinstated a farm zone towards the southern end of the city, away from the other industrial zones. Nothing there yet, but demand for Agricultural zones is negative, so that's probably why...

Useless information - my city has a lot of water, I had no idea you were limited to 16 ferries in the city! First time I've seen this before.

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

6 minutes ago, The Edge said:

I had no idea you were limited to 16 ferries in the city! First time I've seen this before.

Nice to mention this. I'd run into that in a test, but I'd completely forgotten about it.

[powerfullshammy 81]

51 minutes ago, The Edge said:

Thanks for all the tips, looks like education has gone past 160 now and I'm slowly getting demand back for Industrial zones again. Still got a couple of stray dirty industry zones somewhere but I'll track them down. I also reinstated a farm zone towards the southern end of the city, away from the other industrial zones. Nothing there yet, but demand for Agricultural zones is negative, so that's probably why...

Useless information - my city has a lot of water, I had no idea you were limited to 16 ferries in the city! First time I've seen this before.

16 ferries per city is limit why i use bridges instead of ferries only 1 ferry per city on watery regions to get to other islands and mainlands

[The Edge 215]

Oh I have bridges already 🙂 just lots of ferries and coastline. I can post a screenshot of the entire city tonight if anyone would like to see? Happy to hear any feedback as to how I could improve it 🙂

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

2 hours ago, The Edge said:

I can post a screenshot of the entire city tonight if anyone would like to see?

/me would like to see.

[The Edge 215]

Okay, here it is. No specific view (transport/power/pollution etc) has been applied. This is how I do most of my cities across water. Apologies for the resolution and the Police despatch, uh, "badges" (makes me think of Chips!), I can't figure out how to get rid of those

Industrial is all the lower half,  mixed residential/commercial on the island in the middle, and the same across the river. There's a strip of land to the right that I started developing on as well but left it while working on the mainland. The Skytower landmark (in Auckland, where I live) is at the centre left edge of the map, next to the motorway. I still have a really low number of industrial buildings for my liking, but demand is all negative for anything industrial at the moment, so I'm leaving it for now.

Any feedback welcome? Would anyone like to see a specific view? Also, would anyone do anything differently to how I've done it, or should I blow it all away and start all over again?

[CorinaMarie 29,626]

3 minutes ago, The Edge said:

This is how I do most of my cities across water.

Looks good. And I like how you have a reasonable number of bridges crossing the water. The island there is nice and since commercial has started on it, I expect that'll become and important CBD.

 

5 minutes ago, The Edge said:

I can't figure out how to get rid of those

I recall having those stick around and not go away. I finally bulldozed their stations (and then re-plopped them) and that solved it for me.

 

7 minutes ago, The Edge said:

or should I blow it all away and start all over again?

You should keep right on going. It looks like a well organized city.

[powerfullshammy 81]

2 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

3 hours ago, The Edge said:

or should I blow it all away and start all over again?

You should keep right on going. It looks like a well organized city.

Yea keep going your city looks better than my 1st time back 1st city Spoonsville which I can't fix when I went back to it today

[The Edge 215]

Thanks I like building around the coastline and then going back inland as I run out of room.

Should I be worried about the negative industrial demand? I thought industrial was where the biggest number of jobs were located.

[Vigilante1987 180]

I wouldn't worry about the industrial demand.  If I remember correctly after a city reaches a population over 60,000 sims commercial jobs become more important.