Underground / Zones View when building subway stations

[kim026 298]

Hi, I have a question: is it possible to disable the change in dataview when you select a subway station?

Either when using the default subway station or any subway station mod like in NAM or Road Top Mass Transit, the view changes to zones to show you any existing subway route, the road, but not the zoned buildings. Is there a way to avoid this change in view?

I want to build subway stations in normal view, because I dont need to see underground, I 99% of the times know already where everything is and i go at the precise tile to build what I need, and having to switch these views when in a 200,000 people worth of city takes quite some time, like If I had to stop at every traffic light in a busy city...

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

3 hours ago, kim026 said:

I have a question: is it possible to disable the change in dataview when you select a subway station?

Oh, yeah. That'd definitely be useful if possible.

What we'll have to determine is if that view switcheroo is handled by a property in data files or if some code in the .exe causes it to happen. If the former, then it's likely part of the subway cohort. And, obviously, if it's the latter there's little chance we mere mortals can change it. (That'd require @simmaster07 level coding.) We'd want the alteration to apply to stations, but not the subway tubes or you'd have to remove the mod (assuming one can be created) when you did actually want to go underground to build the network.

I've got a long backup running (a couple or three hours), but when that finishes I'll look into from the data files side.

[Vigilante1987 180]

That'd be great, but I'm pretty sure it's hard-coded.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

On 9/15/2019 at 4:56 PM, Vigilante1987 said:

I'm pretty sure it's hard-coded.

That does seem to be the case when 0x00001302 (Building: Subway) is an occupant group in the building exemplar.

 

Looking at same for the Maxis Subway Station we see this in the 2nd rep of the OccupantGroups:

 

So, I simply changed that to 0x00001301 (Building: Bus).

 

And now in the game it does not cause the faded view:

 

I did a very limited test in the game to be sure that Sims will still ride the subway.

However, it could make the Transportation Data View look goofy or any number of other problems. So, the attached file should be tested thoroughly in a sandbox region. Remember load order as it'll need to override the NAM version and any others using the same exemplar. Should the tests prove it's all ok then one would simply need to edit this property for any subway stations one uses.

Subway Station - No Underground View.dat

Edit 21 May, 2022: The above file is woefully inadequate since at the time I used the Maxis vanilla subway station and so it has only 2000 passenger capacity. See this new post for a version with 50,000 capacity.

I added strike though to the file name here to indicate it should not be used, but it is still attached for anyone who might want the plain vanilla version.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Me again.

Here's a wee bit more testing. First is the subway layout. I bulldozed the street connection of the west residential area to the east/west road and placed a subway station at the south end such that the tube is the only way they can get to work. For the other one, I left the street/road connection, but gave them the option to use the subway:

 

The Subway Volume Data View looks fine:

 

And the Traffic Congestion view sees the subway lines too:

 

The budget shows the proper entry for subways:

 

Ofc, y'all still need to thoroughly test this too.

 

[rsc204 21,808]

That's a very elegant solution to the problem, one that certainly didn't cross my mind.

I guess a good test for this would be a working city with as many residents using the subway as possible. Once that is stable in terms of population/riders, then switch the subway stations to the modded ones. If everything remains stable after the changes, functionally speaking, that would confirm they work as before.

Offhand I can't think of anything else that removing this property should affect.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

34 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

Once that is stable in terms of population/riders, then switch the subway stations to the modded ones.

And do note that one needs to mod the actual subway stations used and not just toss in my tweaked vanilla one.

For instance, if using NAM (as nearly everyone does) it would need to be the one located in \Documents\SimCity 4\Plugins\z___NAM\Mass Transit Lots\Maxis Stations, Tollbooths, and Transitions.dat because of the difference in capacity. And if using any custom content subway stations then those would need edited.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Is this one of those mods that changes the way already-plopped buildings function, or must one bulldoze existing stations, then add the mod, then rebuild the stations? More generally, is there a rule of thumb to know which kinds of edits need bulldozing and which don't?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

10 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Is this one of those mods that changes the way already-plopped buildings function, or must one bulldoze existing stations, then add the mod, then rebuild the stations?

My best guess is no previous subway stations (either the vanilla one I patched above, the NAM updated version of same, or any custom content one) would need re-plopping after the tweak I outlined is performed. Based on my limited testing, it seems OccupantGroups in the 0x000013xx range simply access hard coded rules for how the display is changed when one has a transit item on the cursor. Ergo, ready to plop. Since the existing subways are already plopped and in place, they are unlikely to jump onto the cursor and so it seems there would be no need to bulldoze any existing stations. The aforementioned tweak does not change anything related to the ongoing internal simulation math (as best I can surmise).

Ofc, my style of tweaking/modding is basically trial and error with me being a newcomer in this regard. I don't already know what cannot be done and (surprisingly) I've come up with a few things which have never been created before (such as the random spawns for emergency vehicles with flashing lights active to make a city seem more alive and realistic or the no garbage trucks code I wrote for @Takingyouthere).

I'll often poke around in Reader when someone asks a question like @kim026 did in the first post since it's likely the one asking the question isn't as familiar with the game data structures. Once I've found something which appears to work as intended, I toss it back for other peeps to thoroughly test. That's prolly one of my shortcomings where once the initial problem is apparently solved I lose interest and leave the testing for others. That's also why there're a couple dozen tweaks and fixes I've posted as attachments which really could be on the STEX if anyone felt like doing the rest of the testing, documentation, and pictures to fully explain them.

So ofc, as I mentioned initially, y'all need to test this in a non-critical city and, hopefully, report back here with your findings.

[kim026 298]

13 hours ago, CorinaMarie said:

(such as the random spawns for emergency vehicles with flashing lights active to make a city seem more alive and realistic

Can I try this tweak? How does it work?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

9 hours ago, kim026 said:

Can I try this tweak? How does it work?

Sure, it's available as various attachments and explained throughout the Auto emergency activity SC4 thread. This does happen to be one CB and I have planned to release on the STEX at some point. Be sure to read thoroughly for what are test items and which were deemed to be working.

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

so I got a question, what do the different colors in subway mode mean? are they the tunnels or what? cuz I thought I had more than that, plus when I went to put in more tunnels some parts were the colors and others showed the actual black subway..

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

That looks like it's showing subway traffic volume. Light bluish white is less used and then it increases from there.

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

here's another better pic

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Yep. I suspect you enabled the NAM's Use New Subway View (or whatever it's called).

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

what about the parts where u can see the subway but its not colored blue like its just normal color, why does it have no color(look closely)

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

That would likely indicate no usage at all.

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

Gotcha, so when I click on a station of whatever kind of station(subway in this case) and its tells me pedestrian:23, car: 6, Subway: 6, does that number next to it mean the amount of people riding it at that station and when it says cars, does that mean people using car to get to subway station and pedestrian people walking to it?? confused about that part. That was after clicking on subway station with the bottom "?" mark key on the screen.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

The bottom "?" is your Route Query and does show the number of Sims using and/or passing thru the station. Some of the numbers are double counted. Like those 6 from the cars could be the same 6 that then rode the subway. The peds might just be Sims who took a shortcut crossing the tile with the station.

You can also go underground (select to build a subway tube) then once in that view, change to the Route Query and check the tubes themselves a tile or more away from the station to see the exact usage. You will likely see Cars and Pedestrians listed along with Subway counts, but that just tells how they got there.

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Btw, here's something I've posted before, but you might find useful:

Here's a CoriTip™ for your subway layout.

Contrary to the logic of the real world where the stations are in line with the tubes, lay them out such that Sims traveling a long distance don't go thru stations where they don't intend to disembark and keep them at least one full tile away from the main route as even immediately adjacent counts the same as in-line. If you lay them out all on the route the stations will count all the traffic passing thru and get overwhelmed.

Also, I try to never run subway under streets or roads in the same direction they are traveling to avoid the confusion on the Traffic Congestion map. (Obviously they do have to cross them perpendicular.)

Note: It's been said by a NAM member this isn't really necessary since NAM sufficiently increases station capacity, but I still like this method so there isn't confuzzling data when using the Route Query.

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

Gotcha, thanks , so but when using the route query and im clicking on the station what does the car count mean? does that mean the people that drive to the station to use it? and pedestrians is the people who walk there ?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

Well now, that's a good question about the cars.

It seem odd that they could drive to or from the station itself unless it has parking (and the Maxis ones don't). They'd have to put said car in their pocket when not driving it while riding the subway. Maybe it's counting each mode of transportation. Like they drove to a garage, parked, walked to the subway, and then rode it.

The pedestrians make more sense cause they can walk to or from the station or even use the lot as a shortcut from one street or road to another.

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

yea see that's what I was thinking is that they counting the people driving to station to park and use subway, the only q is where they park since no parking garage but ok thanks. In general tho when using subways should I put a parking garage near/next to it or no?

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

2 minutes ago, LightSkinnedPisces said:

the only q is where they park since no parking garage

Do you have a Passenger Train Station nearby? It has parking facilities.

 

3 minutes ago, LightSkinnedPisces said:

In general tho when using subways should I put a parking garage near/next to it or no?

I've personally never had much use for parking garages, but take that with a grain of salt since I generally play mostly rural agricultural with some towns hither and yon.

The times I'd imagine it would be useful is say you have a large city and your Sims live quite a ways out in the hinterland. They could drive to the edge of the city, park in the garage, and then ride the subway to get to the CBD. I wouldn't expect parking garages would be needed around any subway station inside the city center because if they drive that far they'd prolly just drive to work and park in the magic (assumed) garage of their work place.

 

[Cyclone Boom 16,875]

7 minutes ago, LightSkinnedPisces said:

In general tho when using subways should I put a parking garage near/next to it or no?

Plopping parking garages can be a useful strategy to encourage commuting Sims to use mass transit. This allows them to travel to the garage by car, and then they can walk along to take the nearby subway or other mode of transport for going about their journey.

Quoting from Page 389 of the Prima Guide:

Quote

The Public Parking Garage is a very important addition to the SimCity 4 transportation system.

Previously, one of the big limitations on mass transit was that Sims would only take the Bus or the Subway if it was in walking distance. Why? The stations had nowhere to park cars. Since Sims can't abandon their vehicles while they go to work, they had no choice but to drive the rest of the way or use a slow Passenger Rail Station (which has parking).

The Parking Garage changes this. If you place one in contact with a Road, then place Bus, Subway, Elevated Rail, or Monorail Stations nearby, many Sims will drive to the garage, park, and walk to one of the mass transit stations.

 

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

OK thanks you guys, good to know. 

[LightSkinnedPisces 71]

so when I use the route query and click on one of my subway stations away from the city with parking garage next to it, its says Pedestrians: 2, Car:400, Subway:450,  how would u break this down? I understand the pedestrians walk there, the people drive there to the parking garage/subway station but then 450 use subway? cuz when I use the query tool its says actual is like 745(I understand that will fluctuate ) im trying to understand where the 450 for subway came from tho? 450 rode subway, wouldn't it be more cuz of the cars? just trying to figure out how to break this down or should I not even try to figure it out? lol

[CorinaMarie 29,605]

One thing you might need to check when using the Route Query is both the Morning and Evening Commute. Add the numbers together for each category of Car, Pedestrian, Subway, etc. to see if it matches better with the total when using the regular Query on the subway station itself.