A decent train station that doesn't take up heaps of room

[The Edge 215]

Evening

I've been playing SimCity 4 for many years now and have added a couple of lots over the years to improve it. I'm big on rail travel, and have been trialling a couple of stations.

In the image you'll see a yellow-and-white station I've been using for years, as well as a newer grey coloured one (both circled in yellow). The grey one has a MUCH higher capacity than the yellow one (which is what I'm looking for) yet hardly anyone seems to want to use them. However, if I place a yellow one, everyone and their dog uses the station and some of them end up suffering from overcrowding. In the image, the grey one has 65 people using it; the yellow one has 963! However there are lots of the grey ones where maybe 2-4 people use it - yet a few hundred metres away on the same line (in another block) a yellow one will have many thousands using the station. Hell, even the stock-standard red ones that came originally with SimCity get more use than a lot of the grey ones! The grand station is nice but just takes up far too much room on the map - and the grey one has a higher capacity anyway.

However, I like the grey one as it takes up very little room, whereas the other one takes up a lot - but is heavily used (maybe it just looks more friendly than a mass of grey tarseal with some lights on it?)

Can anyone suggest a good, high capacity train station that I can just drop into my Plugins folder, that doesn't take up much room on the map (and people use it)?

Thanks

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

A) Examine routes sims are taking; there might be some clues. Do any sims actually pass by the grey station to use the yellow? Or are the sims just coming from the yellow's side of the picture?

B) Open up the stations' exemplars to see what the transit switch entry cost is. Maybe the grey station costs more (time) to use.

[The Edge 215]

Sorry for the dumb question, but how do I open up the exemplar (where do I find it)?

As a test, I bulldozed one of the grey stations and replaced it with a yellow one - commuters flocked to it. Weird eh?

[Handyman 785]

On 2019-06-03 at 4:23 AM, The Edge said:

Can anyone suggest a good, high capacity train station that I can just drop into my Plugins folder, that doesn't take up much room on the map (and people use it)?

I use a station that plops right on the tracks so it takes up no extra tiles, I believe it is called the "Modern Arched Station".

[rsc204 21,857]

4 hours ago, Handyman said:

I believe it is called the "Modern Arched Station".

This station is included in the NAM mod.

5 hours ago, The Edge said:

but how do I open up the exemplar (where do I find it)?

That will be the "Buildings Exemplar", in human speak that's the properties pertaining to a given lot. Usually that will be inside one of the files that came with the station. It could be inside the SC4Lot file or it could be inside an SC4Desc or DAT file. You'll only see these things if you use iLives Reader or a similar program to open said files. Then you can modify the properties.

On 03/06/2019 at 10:23 AM, The Edge said:

n the image you'll see a yellow-and-white station I've been using for years, as well as a newer grey coloured one (both circled in yellow). The grey one has a MUCH higher capacity than the yellow one (which is what I'm looking for) yet hardly anyone seems to want to use them. However, if I place a yellow one, everyone and their dog uses the station and some of them end up suffering from overcrowding. In the image, the grey one has 65 people using it; the yellow one has 963! However there are lots of the grey ones where maybe 2-4 people use it - yet a few hundred metres away on the same line (in another block) a yellow one will have many thousands using the station. Hell, even the stock-standard red ones that came originally with SimCity get more use than a lot of the grey ones! The grand station is nice but just takes up far too much room on the map - and the grey one has a higher capacity anyway.

All of this is likely explained by just two factors. Either the very specific location of the Station makes it quicker for sims to use. Otherwise more than likely they are not modded with the same transit settings. That's what @jeffryfisher was getting at in respect of "opening" them up, so you could fix the modding of them. However, that might be a bit daunting for someone who's never done any modding before. Note also that if you have installed NAM, the original Station Properties have been optimised by it's installation. Ideally, all stations you use should be similarly modded so only the game itself dictates which sims use them. This means in practise that for a Railway station with no other transit options, should have a Transit Switch Entry Cost (TSEC) value of .0069. The Transit Switch Capacity is a bit more complex, but it's recommended to have a minimum of 45,000 for a Rail Station. If you edit these values and save them, you should find they work identically. I.e., if you replace one with another, a very similar number of sims would use it.

 

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

15 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

The Transit Switch Capacity is a bit more complex, but it's recommended to have a minimum of 45,000 for a Rail Station.

IIRC, that's a value for a station that straddles its rail line so that all line traffic counts against the station's capacity. For a station adjacent to a rail line (counting only sims becoming or ceasing to be rail passengers ), a lower number would work.

BTW, If you ever encounter a station that straddles its line but has a "low" capacity, you can create a spur for each one you plop. That way, the main-line thru-traffic bypasses it so only the sims entering or leaving via each station get counted against it.

[rsc204 21,857]

19 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

IIRC, that's a value for a station that straddles its rail line so that all line traffic counts against the station's capacity. For a station adjacent to a rail line (counting only sims becoming or ceasing to be rail passengers ), a lower number would work.

No, that value is implicit for all Rail Stations with only Rail Travel enabled. Many lower values will work, but the minimum advised value is 45k sims. For further clarification, see here:

On 18/03/2011 at 12:51 AM, z1 said:

The question may be raised at this point as to whether the capacities used for RTMT stations, and inline stations in general, are valid for all stations, since station usage for these two classes of stations includes all through traffic. I have found the answer to be a clear "Yes." The reason for this answer is that SC4 traffic does not behave the same as real world traffic; much of the differences can ultimately be pinpointed to the fact that most travel distances in SC4 are much shorter than in the real world. As a result, for example, instead of taking a train for at least several kilometers, Sims tend to travel much shorter distances. This means that virtually the entire traffic of a train line may enter or exit at a single stop, and this may happen at multiple stations along the train line. For such stations, there really is no difference between through traffic and traffic that enters or exits the line at that station.

[The Edge 215]

Thanks for all the info although it's a bit above my head. Would it help if I showed the capacity being used on the line (and at each of the stations)?

[The Edge 215]

22 hours ago, Handyman said:

I use a station that plops right on the tracks so it takes up no extra tiles, I believe it is called the "Modern Arched Station".

I tried that but it doesn't seem to be a downloadable/ploppable item all by itself, it needs a whole lot of other stuff I wouldn't use (assuming we're talking about the same thing here - is it part of the most recent Network Addon Mod)?

[rsc204 21,857]

9 hours ago, The Edge said:

Thanks for all the info although it's a bit above my head. Would it help if I showed the capacity being used on the line (and at each of the stations)?

Not really, the capacity being used isn't really the problem. It's something relating to how it was created as a mod/lot. Better would be if you could provide me with links to download both stations. Since I'm not familiar with either, that would allow me to peek inside them and see where they differ. I could also then make you a patch for them, I think that may be easier here. In essence, here's how such files look and what needs to be altered:

Find the buildings exemplar (Cyan), it'll be whichever exemplar has the exemplar type "Buildings". Each of the lines here is some sort of property that relates to how the station works. In this case it's the lines in Green only that would need changing.

9 hours ago, The Edge said:

I tried that but it doesn't seem to be a downloadable/ploppable item all by itself, it needs a whole lot of other stuff I wouldn't use (assuming we're talking about the same thing here - is it part of the most recent Network Addon Mod)?

Yes that station has been incorporated into the NAM. However, I think many players don't realise that the NAM, whilst a very large mod, certainly doesn't require you to install very much. At it's core are a bunch of fixes for the base game, mainly resolving issues with the very broken traffic simulator the game shipped with. Along with a bunch of small fixes/improvements, the "core" NAM, which is an option in the installer, is very light. Of course there is much more inside, but you are free to install as little or as much as you want. For example, having installed the core fixes, you could then just install a handful of included stations.

If that doesn't work for you, have a look here, it's a pretty comprehensive list of available Train stations and related content. Highly recommend by me would be those by Ill Tonkso, Coego & Marrast. That last one in particular contains a good range of compact stations.

[The Edge 215]

gare1-0x5ad0e817_0xce2e57c6_0xf0000.SC4Model

PLOP_6x1_SM2 Valleymede Train Station_c9187264.SC4Lot

[The Edge 215]

I don't have the links anymore sorry (the yellow station I got years ago) but I managed to locate the plugin files and have attached them both for you if you would like to take a look?
The "gare" one is the yellow station, the other one is the grey one.

Thanks for your help (and good morning!)

[The Edge 215]

That list was pretty comprehensive! I guess I'm looking for something that can handle up to 30 000 passengers and doesn't take up much space (like the grey one, but a station people actually want to use)

[rsc204 21,857]

13 hours ago, The Edge said:

I don't have the links anymore sorry (the yellow station I got years ago) but I managed to locate the plugin files and have attached them both for you if you would like to take a look?

The first file you uploaded is only a model, that contains just the prop used to make the station, but does not contain any of the properties needed to edit it.

Similarly, the second file contains just the "modding" parts, but not the model. In the case of the latter though, that's not really a problem, since I was easily able to locate this station, which is made by Simmer2:

I think however, seeing which station that is, may explain why you are having problems with it. For starters, if you only see concrete and lights, I think you've neglected to install a bunch of necessary files. It should look like the picture above, with a shelter and other props. These are known as dependencies, simply additional files a given mod needs to work as intended. In this case, because things are missing, instead of placing the station on top of the tracks as designed, you've placed it beside the tracks. Whilst that can work, it is far from optimal and would likely explain why your sims don't like to use the station.

[The Edge 215]

Ah true I didn't install all the dependencies - just the file itself. I tried installing it on the train tracks (like you recommended) but it said the area was already occupied.

So to get the grey one to work (my preference) I need to download all those other dependencies and just drop them into my Plugins folder? Is that right?

[rsc204 21,857]

2 hours ago, The Edge said:

So to get the grey one to work (my preference) I need to download all those other dependencies and just drop them into my Plugins folder? Is that right?

Not necessarily, it should just require you to place it on the tracks, functionally at least, it will work without the dependencies. Perhaps it's better to place the station, then drag the tracks through. Bear in mind, the tracks only work on one side of the lot, but with a little trial and error in a clear space you should be able to figure out where.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

6 hours ago, The Edge said:

I tried installing it on the train tracks (like you recommended) but it said the area was already occupied.

You're being tricked by the difference between the lot itself and its "overhang" that displays props (like the shelter and platforms) outside the boundary of the lot. Place the station parallel to the tracks with the parking lot lights (if you can see them in the hovering ghost) aimed away from the tracks. The overhang, not the lot proper, will then cover the tracks.

[rsc204 21,857]

2 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

You're being tricked by the difference between the lot itself and its "overhang"

Good point, I hadn't considered that. Having only look briefly inside the Lot file, I kinda assumed from the picture it was an "on track" station. If that's not the case, then it's already working optimally when placed next to a railway.

So more than likely, it's the Yellow station that's behind the problem. It probably doesn't have a TSEC set, meaning in real terms it's faster for sims to use. However, ideally one should be set, upon doing so, I suspect the sims would make a more even split between using the two stations. If anyone can identify the station in question, it would help me to post a "patched" version of the lot.

[The Edge 215]

Yes please. While I like the yellow station (and it's well-used) it does take up a fair amount of space - the grey one is smaller and can handle a lot more people through it.

The "grand station" that comes with SC4 by default isn't actually that good and takes up a LOT of space on the map. I had one in my city that all of 6 people were using, so I recently removed it and added one of the yellow stations to save space.

[The Edge 215]

Wait - I found another file for (I think) the yellow station - does this help?

gare1_4e4a2d00.SC4lot

gare1-0x5ad0e817_0xce2e57c6_0xf0000.SC4Model

[rsc204 21,857]

Try replacing the original .sc4lot file with the modified one here:

gare1_4e4a2d00.SC4lot

I've made some tweaks to the capacity/TSEC, along with integrating a bus stop into the lot, allowing switching between Rail/Bus routes at the station. That should ensure the two operate similarly.

[The Edge 215]

Thanks so much, I'll give it a try

[The Edge 215]

Okay the station has more capacity (which is great!) but still takes up a little more room than I would like (and I use sub-busway stations for my buses, not regular buses).

If only I could get the Modern Arched Station to work as a standalone thing I think that might be just what I'm looking for...hmmm....

[The Edge 215]

Success!
After looking through the list of railway related plugins (as mentioned above), I think I might have found one that does basically everything I want:

No dependencies required, I just dropped it into my folder and it works really well! I'm going to systematically go through and remove the Valleymede ones now and replace them with this one.

As a test I removed a few of the latter and replaced them with the former, and the sims are literally flocking to most of the stations now to use the train - so it's a win for me!

Having said that, I'll go through the rest of that list when I have time and see if there's anything else that looks attractive.

To everyone who replied: Thanks for your help, it is much appreciated

[Handyman 785]

10 hours ago, The Edge said:

Success!
After looking through the list of railway related plugins (as mentioned above), I think I might have found one that does basically everything I want:

Have not seen this one before, downloaded it and will be replacing many of the Modern Arched stations. So glad you found a solution.

[The Edge 215]

The only couple of issues I've found is they don't like being placed at opposite sides across an avenue, plus with it being on the track itself, it makes it a bit hard to put things next to it so they connect (eg, my sub-bus stations that I've used for a long time). But they're mostly minor niggles - it's great to see tonnes of people using the trains!

[The Edge 215]

Also - I tried to view the ones hosted on SC4Devotion this morning but I think their website was having issues (I kept getting a scripting error) so will try again tonight (ie, shortly)

Edit: can anyone else get to them? I can't...

[Handyman 785]

3 hours ago, The Edge said:

Edit: can anyone else get to them?

Tried, but no luck.

[The Edge 215]

Okay, that's a relief. I thought it was me (or my connection). Are those SC4Devotion ones hosted anywhere else? I wouldn't mind taking a look at those ones too

[Lucario Boricua 7,048]

Some places to find other train stations:

* Here in Simtropolis, but you'll have to use Google search to get them because of how this website's search engine doesn't really work. A safer bet is going to the Can't Find it? Ask Here! thread and look at which stations players have been requesting most often. Don't be afraid to jump to earlier pages, there's lots of content to find here!

* Given that you were specifically after compact stations, I recommend checking those by these users: Ill Tonkso, Brenda_Xne (light rail, elevated rail, subway) and Simmer2 (bonus: has hosted once lost files by japanese modder Caribou, plus he's in active development of just about anything railway-related).

* SimCity Plaza, a german website corresponding to the SFBT team. Either use an online translator, skills in the German language or look for these sections: Eisenbahn (heavy railroad), Hoch- und U-Bahn (elevated rail and metro/subway/underground), Straßenbahn (ground light rail/streetcar/tramway)

* Working Man Productions, a british website which hosts content from various contentmakers. It hosts several train stations.

* Tout SimCities, a French website hosting content from various French developer teams, you'll also find lots of goodies to customize railways in addition to the stations.