Diagonal Slopes, Slope Mods and Terrain Mods strange behaviour

[Tyberius06 12,267]

Hi everyone!

I need some help. 
I'm making a bunch embankment filler lot modifications (relots, overwrite lots etc...) for Jrj New Concrete Diagonal walls and Mas71 Wall set 2. I give them multiple base texture options such as pavement (depends on your sidewalk mod), concrete (to match with the IRM and the SAM 11), dirt (to match with the dirt textures next to the RRW tracks), and made overwrite option for the terrain grass texture which adapting the used terrain textures. I'm using the NHP ENN slope mod (315 version) and since I'm using Sudden Valley which is not covered by default with the diagonal jagged edge mod (DJEM), I followed some instructions which I found on the download page and modified the terrain mod property examplar to get the same effect.
But the slopes are only appearing properly on the north-west/south-east axis, and they appeared to be zig-zag/messy on the north-east/south-west axis.
See the comparing pictures below...

 

I don't know if it's a game limiation or something with my set-up is not quite right, because later I removed the SV terrain mod and used the default maxis terrain with the default maxis DJEM and I got the same results. Is there any solution to get the same proper result on all rotation/orientation?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

- Tyberius

[Prophet42 1,503]

It might be a limitation in the game engine.  Have you set hardware rendering in your shortcut command line switch?.  If so, are you using DirectX or OpenGL?

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

Are the elevation differences constant all around? The zig-zag might be accommodating changing height. What's weird is that the right-hand wall isn't all zig-zags; it runs smooth for a few cells before becoming jumbled. That suggests changing conditions along that wall.

[rsc204 21,866]

This is normal behaviour and occurs because the slope tolerance of a lot is based upon the orientation of it. To combat the problem, you'll need a second set of lots rotated 90 degrees, perhaps even 4 lots, one for each rotation (although I think not in this case, since they only work in 2 against the top slope). This will allow the slope tolerance to always be set correctly in different rotations of the lot.

[Tyberius06 12,267]

18 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Are the elevation differences constant all around?

Yes, the zig-zag effect only appears on decreasing or increasing surface elevation.

12 hours ago, rsc204 said:

This is normal behaviour and occurs because the slope tolerance of a lot is based upon the orientation of it. To combat the problem, you'll need a second set of lots rotated 90 degrees, perhaps even 4 lots, one for each rotation (although I think not in this case, since they only work in 2 against the top slope). This will allow the slope tolerance to always be set correctly in different rotations of the lot.

Sorry I don't understand. I think the LOTs are missleading you. The question is not really about the lots, it's about the surface. The surface has the zig-zag effect on the north-east/south-west diagonal axis and the surface is even (looks nice and normal) on the north-west/south-east axis (it's like the DJEM modifications are working on this axis, but are not working on the other axis). The second picture above shows better the other side of the slope without the LOTs, and it's uneven during the elevation, it has this zig-zag effect. But on the other axis (first picture) it has an evenly decreasing elevation without the zig-zag effect. This zig-zag effect of the surface cause the zig-zag effect on the LOTs. Even if I change the lots, the zig-zag effect of the surface will still be there. On the new first picture (below), you can see that on the same level wall fences have strange shadows and the props are falling under the top of the slope. Clearly on equal elevation the DJEM even the surface visually (on this axis), but the props (these are slope tolerant fence prop pieces - 6-8 on the lot diagonally) fall down following the zig-zag which would appear WITHOUT the DJEM modifications. But if you look at the other axis, same wall pieces with the same props have the proper fences on the top without the zig-zag, the DJEM surface even capability not just visual, but real on that other axis. Note the red circled pieces are on the same height (15.5m-ish), than it goes to 0m.

2. Same wall from front view, you can see, that the fences fall down. But on the above picture you can see the other axis with the same fences and they show up properly.

However I not entirely understand that second set 90 deg rotated lots, I re-made one of the lots and rotated the props (moved and reorganized them on the lot according to this) and textures with 90 deg on it, but I didn't get different result.

But as I said, the strange behaviour is with the surface on different axises as you can see on the second image of my first post.

[rsc204 21,866]

Well if a rotated set of lots doesn't help, then basically there isn't a lot you can do. Maybe I was a bit too confident on that, but having seen the problem myself, that was my plan to deal with them. It should help with the props, since the slope settings orient to the direction of the lot arrow when placed. Which of course, alternates depending on the direction of the terrain. Hence the idea of one set for each. I never really got far with this idea, but even if the textures don't look ideal, having the fencing aligned right would be a bonus (for me).

The textures however are another matter entirely and simply map to the terrain they are placed upon. You might be able to tweak the terrain settings to avoid this, but I couldn't begin to tell you what settings to use. Even if you did find a perfect setting for your slopes, likely it would have a negative impact on the look of hills/mountains elsewhere. See Blunder's guide to editing terrain for help with this.

Bear in mind, the typical DJEM settings are based on the height of the embankments, setting this so as to prevent jaggies all the way to 0m (if it's even possible), doesn't seem like a good idea. You can but try I suppose.

Edit: Ignore the thing about the props, a moment of folly on my part sorry. I did have some problem a long time ago I was trying to solve there, but looking at it again I'm mixing things up. But indeed the texture issue is related to the terrain settings, which may be difficult to resolve.

[Tyberius06 12,267]

Thanks!

Well in the MAS71 set there are two fences sets. One is a diagonal piece (ONE piece). It would appear properly on those sites where the other fence type is falling down but only on the same heights. On the downhill/uphill the other fences (the pieces) do the above seen effects.. But we are still talking about LOTs... They are irrelevant. So I removed them.

Last picture:

Is this a normal TERRAIN behaviour even if with DJEM or DJEM setups? Is it a typical game limitation and can't avoid it? Why is terrain surface even on one axis and ruined on the other axis?

It was probably already discussed once, but I wasn't here at that time, so that's why I'm asking.

[matias93 7,535]

If I remember clearly, what the DJEM does is to change which slopes will be considered cliffs. If you note, the zigzag begins where the cliff texture ends.

There is some sort of mathematical issue with the diagonal edges that I cannot remember, but that arises when folding a flat surface on right angles, just as the game does, so this *is* a limitation.

There is a compromise when using the DJEM, because using a lower threshold would render bigger parts of the terrain into cliffs (a particularly annoying situation when your terrain is subtly hilly instead of fully flat or mountainous). I guess you could experiment by modifying that exemplar and tailoring some mod versions fitting different terrain types.

Lastly, I remember that some wall sets (may it be Buddybud add-on for Jeronij concrete walls?) included corner shaped lots, that circumvented this issue by covering the jagged edges as a series of alternate corners on the walls. That looked neat enough for me to lament the fact that only occurred on half the diagonals.

 

[Tyberius06 12,267]

6 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Lastly, I remember that some wall sets (may it be Buddybud add-on for Jeronij concrete walls?) included corner shaped lots, that circumvented this issue by covering the jagged edges as a series of alternate corners on the walls. That looked neat enough for me to lament the fact that only occurred on half the diagonals.

Yepp, I remember those, i used to use them. Thanks for the reminder, Matias
Thanks for the help, and thank you @rsc204 with the lotting tips. 

[junspud 1,069]

On 11/9/2018 at 5:58 PM, Tyberius06 said:

Hi everyone!

I need some help. 
I'm making a bunch embankment filler lot modifications (relots, overwrite lots etc...) for Jrj New Concrete Diagonal walls and Mas71 Wall set 2. I give them multiple base texture options such as pavement (depends on your sidewalk mod), concrete (to match with the IRM and the SAM 11), dirt (to match with the dirt textures next to the RRW tracks), and made overwrite option for the terrain grass texture which adapting the used terrain textures. I'm using the NHP ENN slope mod (315 version) and since I'm using Sudden Valley which is not covered by default with the diagonal jagged edge mod (DJEM), I followed some instructions which I found on the download page and modified the terrain mod property examplar to get the same effect.
But the slopes are only appearing properly on the north-west/south-east axis, and they appeared to be zig-zag/messy on the north-east/south-west axis.
See the comparing pictures below...

 

I don't know if it's a game limiation or something with my set-up is not quite right, because later I removed the SV terrain mod and used the default maxis terrain with the default maxis DJEM and I got the same results. Is there any solution to get the same proper result on all rotation/orientation?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

- Tyberius

I know this is kinda old and a random reply, but those are really nice lots, I don't suppose you plan to release them?

[Tyberius06 12,267]

52 minutes ago, junspud said:

I know this is kinda old and a random reply, but those are really nice lots, I don't suppose you plan to release them?

Actually I've been planing to release them for a year now, it's still in some kind of WIP stage, because I would like to cover more classical set options (Various JRJ walls - not the seawalls -, MAS71 walls, BuddyBud-JRJ walls etc...) A big chunk is ready, but my summer and autum was kind of busy and I jumped into some other SC4 related projects and (like many others of my ongoing projects) collecting dusts on the shelves. They will come soonish (I can not promis them in this year, but try to release them sometimes at the first half of the next year), one of the problems, that they are semi-dependent from my Heretic Essentials (more precisely the constantly growing next update of the Essentials), the other problem is that while the first plan was creating expansion pieces just for the MAS71 walls and JRJ modern concrete walls, later I started adding other wall types and those pieces have been left in various  WIP stages for months. 

- Tyberius

[Naomi57 2,985]

On 10/11/2018 at 10:58 AM, Tyberius06 said:

But the slopes are only appearing properly on the north-west/south-east axis, and they appeared to be zig-zag/messy on the north-east/south-west axis.

I was grazing through the STEX today, and spotted this mod, which reminded me of this conversation here.

I've no idea whether it will help, but thought to post it, just in case.

https://community.simtropolis.com/files/file/15048-diagonal-jagged-edges-mod/
This mod fixes the jagged edges that appear on half of the diagonals in the game making sunken highways look very ugly when turning the "wrong way". When using this mod the game will show more cliffs than it usually does so be careful with your slopes.

[Zeratai 84]

@Tyberius06 How you manage to fix this?, I followed Blunder's tutorial for MaxYCliff established at .77 but still i can't see any changes in my terrain and those diagonal walls look zigzaged. I use Sudden Valley