Change station capacity (basic modding)

[monkeywater 910]

I have never modded before, but I have a subway station and a GHSR to subway converter that has a trash capacity.

What program do I need to edit this, just to change capacities, and is there a guide somewhere?

 

thanks!

[Yarahi 1,823]

1 hour ago, monkeywater said:

What program do I need to edit this, just to change capacities, and is there a guide somewhere?

Ilive's Reader and SC4Tool mostly i think

Tutorials can be found here;https://community.simtropolis.com/omnibus/simcity-4/modding-information/

....and here; https://www.sc4devotion.com/forums/index.php?board=438.0

[CorinaMarie 29,899]

More specifically:

• The program: iLive - Reader 0.9.3
• The guide: The Reader, Beginners Guide

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

Just to add...

Another option to consider using is the LEProp tool. This is essentially a greatly simplified version of Reader designed to edit several basic lot properties inside a user interface. It's possible to change the name, description, icons, budget costs, and pollution factors all from the initial page.

I'm not sure if it's the one you've got, but loading up this GHSR to Subway lot:
 

 

Those 8 icons on the right side then open up sub-menus for other options as categorised, corresponding to the various types of properties. The "Rollback" option allows any pending changes to be reverted prior to hitting the Apply button. To save changes, first press "Apply" then Save DAT at the top.

If looking to do much more without constraints of which exemplar properties can be added (including network related ones), that's certainly where Reader comes into its own. Learning the fundamentals there makes it easy to perform simple edits, and it's really just knowing what format to enter the data. For instance, many properties are in hexadecimal form, meaning they can be composed of letters A-F and numbers 0-9.

E.g.

0x00000B09 = 2825

(In Windows, the Calculator can do these conversions back and forth when set to "Programmer" mode. Or there's also a few online converters which might be useful.)

For the actual network capacity from the above linked example, it looks like it'll be this one to edit which is in decimal form:

(The value is 65000 as entered. Then the 0xE90E25A is the IID which references the property so the game knows how to interpret it.)

So ones like this is where Reader will do the job, while other more basic properties is where you may wish to consider the LEProp. Personally I tend to edit things in Reader (v0.9.3) these days just because I've become more used to it, though both are viable options for editing the main stats of a lot.

I hope this provides a bit of additional guidance.

[rsc204 21,867]

43 minutes ago, Cyclone Boom said:

Another option to consider using is the LEProp tool.

I don't think you can edit the actual capacity in LE Prop. I've looked and can find no such setting. The one in the image you show is nothing more than a label. You can type any value in there you like, but it will not actually change the real capacity.

Personally I'd stick with Reader for this task, since SC4 Tool has a tendency to cause additional work when saving edits. If you need to edit TE properties though, SC4 Tool is pretty much the only application that can out there. Might be worth looking at the TSEC (Transit Switch Entry Cost) whist you are at it, useful info here on that and capacities:

 

 

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

45 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

I don't think you can edit the actual capacity in LE Prop. I've looked and can find no such setting. The one in the image you show is nothing more than a label. You can type any value in there you like, but it will not actually change the real capacity.

Indeed, I can confirm it's not possible to edit the Transit Switch Traffic Capacity (or similar ones) in LEProp.

When I said:

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

If looking to do much more without constraints of which exemplar properties can be added (including network related ones), that's certainly where Reader comes into its own.

1 hour ago, Cyclone Boom said:

So ones like this is where Reader will do the job, while other more basic properties is where you may wish to consider the LEProp. Personally I tend to edit things in Reader (v0.9.3) these days just because I've become more used to it, though both are viable options for editing the main stats of a lot.

I was meaning to say how LEProp is fine to handle the very simple properties, while Reader is required for editing those which are more complex. I suspect iLive developed it as a lightweight tool aimed at lot creators, then Reader is the comprehensive suite of tools with all the bells and whistles.

@monkeywater

Just to clarify, from my above posted example pic, the capacity of 65000 shown inside the "Desc" box in LEProp is simply for the lot's description as shown in the game's menu entry. This is merely a text box just like the Name is the title for the lot. Other items of content may not even include this info.

The actual property for the Transit Capacity is data which Reader can modify, and I only thought to mention both options since you mentioned "trash capacity" in your initial post. So if that's for how much garbage a lot produces, the LEProp will allow the amount to be directly edited from the main page, in the boxes setting the pollution amount and radius. Otherwise as @rsc204 rightly said, it'll be a visual and not functional change if editing the description text on its own.

[rsc204 21,867]

2 hours ago, Cyclone Boom said:

I only thought to mention both options since you mentioned "trash capacity" in your initial post.

Goes to show... I took that too mean it's capacity (# passengers) was "trash". If it is indeed 65k, it's not worth changing, since NAM with Ultra capacities wouldn't be able to exceed such limits.

I think LEProp was made before Reader, so only covered some basics. But indeed it's simpler UI does make it much better when you're new to modding. I ditched it after a while though, because Reader is more useful when you know what you're doing.

[CorinaMarie 29,899]

3 minutes ago, rsc204 said:

I took that too mean it's capacity (# passengers) was "trash".

And when I read it this morning I took it to mean the station was also a garbage dump.

[monkeywater 910]

3 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Goes to show... I took that too mean it's capacity (# passengers) was "trash".

Sorry for the unintentional regional dialect.

 

I meant it in the colloquial way, not the literal meaning.  I have a busy GHSR track that I need to convert to subway, but the GHSR to subway converter I am using only has 12000 capacity.

 

Thank you so much everyone in this thread, it has been so helpful.

@rsc204: Thanks for the heads up on transit switch entry cost. But given that I don't have pedestrians converting (so pedos going by the station don't walk through it just to get there quicker) is a transit switch entry cost of 0 fine?  It is just converting GHSR to subway to be used as a tunnel.

 

 

 

 

@Cyclone Boom

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

15 hours ago, rsc204 said:

Reader is more useful when you know what you're doing

Which includes knowing when (and remembering how to) re-index something after editing. I still haven't figured that out 

[monkeywater 910]

41 minutes ago, jeffryfisher said:

Which includes knowing when (and remembering how to) re-index something after editing. I still haven't figured that out 

What does re-indexing even mean?

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

3 hours ago, monkeywater said:

What does re-indexing even mean?

Quoting from the Reader Beginner's Guide by @Tropod as Cori linked above:
 

Quote

ReIndex: This can be and is often a very important function to use at times. This function is a bit like a refresh function for the files in the Main window. Basically it re-indexes all of the files in the Main window. This function is usually used whenever you edit the "TGI" of a file, and/or insert/delete a file in the Main window. This function goes hand in hand with the "Rebuild Directory file" function below.

Rebuild Directory file: This function basically rebuilds the directory file in the Main window. This too is a bit like a refresh function, except this is just for the directory file only (where applicable, as not all dat plugins have a Directory file). This function goes hand in hand with the "ReIndex" function above and is usually used whenever the ReIndex function above is used (again, where applicable, as not all dat plugins have a Directory file).

 

From my own experience, I've noticed how the ReIndex function resets the number (Num) of the files in chronological order from zero. So when removing one or more from the list, it allows them to be ordered correctly depending on how many file entries there are. I'm not too sure whether re-indexing does any more than refreshing the list, but it seems a good habit to get into if deleting or adding new files or altering the Type, Group, or Instance (TGI) of any.

For the directory (DIR) file, this is used to reference compressed entries.

In the column you'll see some of these have a "Y" which indicates whether the data has been optimised for a reduced size. Both the TGI and the Num will be shown, and these need all to match according to the Main window. Then the game knows how to look them up, and I suspect it's needed so then to determine which must be decompressed into readable form. So if making any changes to the composition of the files entries (removals, additions, or TGI editing), it'll be worth rebuilding just in case.

Should there be no DIR present, it'll either be because one isn't needed without anything inside requiring compression, or it must be created to support the compression. In the latter case, first click the Rebuild option and then ReIndex to update the listings. I have noticed how at least Reader v0.9.3 will create a missing DIR file upon saving, along with updating the index itself. However I don't suspect this is a very assured fallback method should it fail or not work for all types of content.

[rsc204 21,867]

4 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

Which includes knowing when (and remembering how to) re-index something after editing. I still haven't figured that out 

By and large if you stick with Reader 0.93 this is handled automatically upon saving the files. 1.54 is a different story, I'd recommend doing this after any change to TGI's or other change that affects data in the left pane of the application. Especially when adding/removing or switching the location of data within a file.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

20 hours ago, rsc204 said:

By and large if you stick with Reader 0.93 this is handled automatically upon saving the files. 1.54 is a different story

It seems that most references / recommendations I've seen point to 0.93 and not 1.54. Maybe I should roll back to that long-ago version so I'll be on the same page.

I've had tons of trouble from v1.54. Just changing the value of one field in one exemplar (not adding anything or changing any lengths) can mangle a whole existing mod file. The only route to success I've found has been to create a new patch file for each file I edit, leaving the original mod in place and then adding my patch to load later and override some settings.

Having years of experience with hex-editing various games and save-game files, I can't for the life of me figure out why updating an existing value without changing the length of anything would require reindexing. Maybe iLives v1.54 has an add-overriding-record paradigm rather than an overwrite-at-location paradigm. Whatever the issue, it's as alien and incomprehensible as reverse-polish notation to me.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,899]

I, too, have reverted to 0.93 for nearly any editing I do. The only reason I had to use 1.5.4 was to be able to get to the NoKickoutLowerWealth property and since that mod is complete I just use 0.93 for all I do.

[monkeywater 910]

If I have a lot already in a city, can I mod it with the new capacity and then go back in safely?

 

[Cyclone Boom 17,032]

49 minutes ago, monkeywater said:

If I have a lot already in a city, can I mod it with the new capacity and then go back in safely?

Should a ploppable lot you intend to modify already be built inside any given city, it'll need rebuilding after bulldozing.

Here's probably an assured method to follow:

Steps to Safely Modify an Existing Plopped Lot's Properties

1. First make a backup of the city (optional but always recommended).
    
2. Enter the city, then bulldoze ALL instances of the lot to be modified which is already built inside. Make sure there's absolutely none remaining, or the data will still be stored at least in an exemplar entry within the saved city file.
    
3. Save the city (Ctrl+S). This will then remove all traces of the original properties to be modified.
   Note: To reduce the risk of corruption when saving any city, this should be done as a separate action without exiting to region or quitting SC4.
    
4. Exit the game using the dedicated option.
    
5. Perform the edits using Reader as desired.
6. Save the file.
    
7. Load the game and the city.
8. Rebuild the items wherever you'd like.
9. Save the city (Ctrl+S).
10. Enjoy your new modded lot.

For a Civic based lot, one possible glitch which may otherwise occur is the "Phantom Slider Bug" by where the data for the funding doesn't correspond:

As this post over at SC4Devotion by @RippleJet explains:

Quote

The save file (*.SC4) includes the monthly funding AND the slider's percentual setting for each civic building. If the percentual setting for the slider won't match the funding, then the game will automatically change the slider, and thus increase or decrease the funding. Since they will never match, this will continue every month till the funding is either 0 or at its maximum value (at 120% funding).

So by bulldozing beforehand it prevents this (and possibly other issues) from occurring.

I'm aware there are certain types of modding which may not require lots to be rebuilt since modifications aren't automatically enforced. The same also applies to the actual props and textures on a lot. I believe growables might be one exception since they don't have exemplar entries created in the saved city file which would otherwise override modified properties. I'm not 100% certain on that front though, so someone please correct me if that's not true. I do know for a fact that mods that alter gameplay properties (e.g. Budget Tuning Parameters) take effect once a tile is loaded. Then the simulation will integrate changes based on how a mod affects things whichever way.

[monkeywater 910]

Thanks so much for the in-depth post!

[monkeywater 910]

How do I save a 2nd version of a lot? 

 

For example, I just played with a powerplant to increase its output.  I removed the current powerplant from the plugins, subbed in the edited one and it worked great.  I saved it with a different name than the first plant. When I put it in the folder with the current powerplant, hoping for a 2nd icon for the same powerplnt, with different output, I only had the origional.

 

Any tips on how to create a 2nd instance of the same unit with different stats?

[rsc204 21,867]

If using the Maxis Lot Editor, using Save will save your modifications with the same ID as the original (override lot), using Save As will give it a unique ID (additional lot).

[monkeywater 910]

On 9/11/2018 at 6:55 PM, rsc204 said:

If using the Maxis Lot Editor, using Save will save your modifications with the same ID as the original (override lot), using Save As will give it a unique ID (additional lot).

Is it possible to do this with ilives?

[CorinaMarie 29,899]

6 hours ago, monkeywater said:

Is it possible to do this with ilives?

Yes.

Here I've extracted the Maxis Bus Station from the NAM version of it and saved it as a separate .dat file and now it's open in Reader:

Then you can make your tweaks to any of the properties and do a Save As to give it a new name. This gives you a separate, new version of it that does not override the original.