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Bad Peanut

POLL (CLOSED): Which multi-track TRAM STATION network layout is best?

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Hey guys, new Poll!
Please choose out of the following options for a 32m wide network which will have 4 tram tracks.
The idea is that this is still a station track prefab so it will only be able to be placed inside an asset (so similar to monorail station tracks). This is due to the fact it will be using a unique track configuration which I will make compatible with the CO vanilla groups (they will connect visually with any tram network using the same connect groups as snowfall tracks)

The trams will be able to stop on each set of track so you can have 4 separate parallel stops on the same road.


Please keep in mind the following:
- DLC required for lanes,

- platform widths (some of them are very skinny so maybe they're not as good)

- overall usability as a medium road.

- vehicle flow compatibility with vanilla/DLC roads

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FYI red tram lanes are tram only (not bus as well)

IF you think of a better layout still vote on the above, but also POST a streetmix pic illustrating exactly how it can work within 32m and with the correct widths for lanes/platforms :)

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Somewhat B.i (after checking bii and i). There's a similar config in Bern, Switzerland: 

Only difference is that trolleybusses can stop on same station stops as well. Bike lanes are/can be used with trams but usually separate. 

Bad Peanut said that it will STATION track, thus i'd go with B.I, otherwise for city scale use, A can be used with variable speed I suppse, outmost tracks can be used for trams and Central segment for LRT usage with higher speed. 

 

This is my proposition for B.I: 

In case it's asked, I can go to Bern and take more pictures 

https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Bern,+Bahnhof/@46.9470898,7.4401332,79a,35y,39.34t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x478e39b8ccf564d1:0x38fca7637cc817a7!8m2!3d46.9481458!4d7.4402333

ECg6mpz.jpg

pyqEDi4.jpg

 

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I think 2m platforms will be very tight, and I'm in favor of direction-wise transfers (one platform per direction), so I voted for B i.

However, are you set on having car lanes? Especially if this is meant for some sort of "station" assets, how about removing cars and allowing much more space for pedestrians, like here https://streetmix.net/-/602147.

 

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  • Original Poster
  • 12 minutes ago, reasonably1 said:

    I think 2m platforms will be very tight, and I'm in favor of direction-wise transfers (one platform per direction), so I voted for B i.

    However, are you set on having car lanes? Especially if this is meant for some sort of "station" assets, how about removing cars and allowing much more space for pedestrians, like here https://streetmix.net/-/602147.

    no-personal-cars.png

    if you have 0 car lanes then i must be a non zonable road as anything zoned needs to  be able to have vehicle access.

    FYI the middle platform on Snowfall medium tram road is 3.2m wide (so each side of the platform is 1.6m wide)

    Yours could be an adaption of A/B without the extra car lane, or parking/bike lane
    I'm adding it to the list as B(iii) so feel free to change your vote if you need :)

     

    edit: by change vote, just comment if you've already voted

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    4 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    Yours could be an adaption of A/B without the extra car lane, or parking/bike lane
    I'm adding it to the list as B(iii) so feel free to change your vote if you need :)

     

    I see, thanks! Seems I cannot change my vote, so imagine +1 for B(iii) ;)

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    I don't really know what to vote here. I guess a choice between solution A and B(iii) would depend on the general road environment where this station would be situated. B(iii) looks good, but won't work on a road with much car traffic. On the other hand, I like your released 4 lane tram/bike/boulevard very much (even if it bugs out half of the time), so B(i) would also be nice.

    I guess that's enough rambling for being not helpful *:D.

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    I'd like to be able to place multiple votes... I like all those with one platform per direction. I placed my vote on B(III), but I like all the B's.

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  • Original Poster
  • 4 hours ago, Turjan said:

    I like your released 4 lane tram/bike/boulevard very much (even if it bugs out half of the time),

    Doesn't bug out for me?? :'(

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    4 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    Doesn't bug out for me?? :'(

    Don't worry, it may be my game. My game has had weird bugs sometimes since the update. Unfortunately, it's random and hard to troubleshoot.

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  • Original Poster
  • When I publish this sort of network, should i publish it as

    • 1: a Station Prefab that needs to be inside an asset to be placed
      • pro: not complex for all users as it mimics behaviour of monorail stations
      • con: can't replace/upgrade road to this. have to delete and place asset

    OR

    • 2: still make it a station road but have it available in the road tool menu and when you place it it forbids nodes (so effectively it will ALWAYS create a junction per node even if there is no connected road to make the junction)
      • pro: can be placed at any time in game just by upgrading to it
      • con: people might try and use it as a long road (multiple nodes) and complain about the aesthetic of the junctions at each node

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    17 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

    Doesn't bug out for me?? :'(

    By the way, the funniest "identity crisis" happened today:

    Spoiler

    883A7071C6275C530A091CF7A92EEA7C7D286357

    On this segment, the cars drive on the left instead of the right, the outer pedestrian path and the bicycle path were used by cars and the bicycles used the main car lane. Anyway, usually it works fine and it's easy to fix.

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  • Original Poster
  • 3 minutes ago, Turjan said:

    By the way, the funniest "identity crisis" happened today:

      Reveal hidden contents

    883A7071C6275C530A091CF7A92EEA7C7D286357

    On this segment, the cars drive on the left instead of the right, the outer pedestrian path and the bicycle path were used by cars and the bicycles used the main car lane. Anyway, usually it works fine and it's easy to fix.

    ok i've never seen that before hahaha definitely a mod interfering at some point

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    13 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    ok i've never seen that before hahaha definitely a mod interfering at some point

    I guess so. It looks like some variant of what NEXT2 did to the pedestrian crossings that crossed on the nodes after the Green Cities release.

    As to your question: I suppose it depends on whether you'd rather answer questions regarding user errors in case 1 or in case 2.

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    I would vote Option 1. It sounds like its operating on a similar principle to the Monorail station and it'd be the most consistent with it. The Monorail stations are easy enough to place.

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    I'd vote for option 2, more power to players. I'd be happy if I could build my own stations. I can imagine many use cases for this.

    But I do understand your fear of people who don't get it.

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    I chose A because it have less platforms and 2 lanes on either side. Now that our emergency vehicles go around traffic, 2 lanes gives them more chances to get to those emergencies and they won't be stuck behind traffic..

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  • Original Poster
  • 15 hours ago, Mr_Maison said:

    I chose A because it have less platforms and 2 lanes on either side. Now that our emergency vehicles go around traffic, 2 lanes gives them more chances to get to those emergencies and they won't be stuck behind traffic..

    don't forget that emergency vehicles use tram lanes too!

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  • Original Poster
  • Ok Poll closed with the following tie between A and B(iii): (tie or close to)

    u4D3tXU.png

    So I've decided on two designs, B(iii) and B(iv) which is a mix of A and B(iii)

    tnEwm9u.png

    3HaSZil.jpg

     

    I've also decided on releasing them as option 2, upgradable networks that have junctions forced, that way people will be encouraged to use them only on 1 segments length, and they can still choose to disregard that and deal with having the forced junctions at each node. There will also be only ground or elevated options so no slope or tunnel.

    thanks everyone for the feedback! very very helpful!

    I haven't started these yet but I'll post about them when i do, in the meantime keep an eye out for a new poll/discussion so you can help me with similar design choices in the future! let me know if you have any questions [not requests ;)]

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    Is it not technically possible to have underground tram stations? I'd really like to have a type of underground tram station track, for stadtbahn-like or premetro systems.

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    3 hours ago, wasmic said:

    Is it not technically possible to have underground tram stations? I'd really like to have a type of underground tram station track, for stadtbahn-like or premetro systems.

    Saddly up to now it is not possible. I read somewhere that the tram network does not allow this.

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  • 33 minutes ago, rovapasi1 said:

    Saddly up to now it is not possible. I read somewhere that the tram network does not allow this.

    I think that's it more the fact that to select a station the surface of the track needs to be visible to the mouse, which any underground network doesn't do (except metro which is specifically coded that way)

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    You are right, its the station selection thats not working underground.

    But it might be worth to try to build a station that is nearly 100% covered so that a little open area remains for selecting the station.

     

    14 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    (except metro which is specifically coded that way

    Btw. how does it work for the train network then? There you are also able to build underground stations.

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  • Original Poster
  • 3 minutes ago, rovapasi1 said:

    to build a station that is nearly 100% covered so that a little open area remains for selecting the station.

     

    3 minutes ago, rovapasi1 said:

    Btw. how does it work for the train network then? There you are also able to build underground stations.

    the train does it by being inside a container asset, so the line tool is picking up on the station template not the network itself - which is why i think multitrack underground stations wouldn't work as you wouldn't be able to differentiate between tracks 

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    8 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    which is why i think multitrack underground stations wouldn't work

    There are several multi track underground train stations on the WS. I use some of them myself and they work fine.

     

    9 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

    the train does it by being inside a container asset, so the line tool is picking up on the station template not the network itself

    Might this be an approach for tram stations as well.

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    18 minutes ago, rovapasi1 said:

    There are several multi track underground train stations on the WS. I use some of them myself and they work fine.

    I think those are basically all separate sub-buildings, which means separate containers. Trams unfortunately don't work via buildings.

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  • Original Poster
  • 2 minutes ago, Turjan said:

    I think those are basically all separate sub-buildings, which means separate containers. Trams unfortunately don't work via buildings.

    correct! :)
     

     

    16 minutes ago, rovapasi1 said:

    There are several multi track underground train stations on the WS. I use some of them myself and they work fine.

     

    Might this be an approach for tram stations as well.

    The only way i think it could be possible is if you can set the track to be a station track but i don't think it's a setting, more part of the AI... sorrryyy man I just don't think it's possible (i'll give it a quick shot if i have time but i doubt it will work)

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    There is a tram station track available on the workshop, which also includes sunken tram station track. Elevated tram station track does not exist, but is probably possible, given that both 'Elevated Stops Enabler' and 'Tram Station Track' exist. For now, normal tram track can be used for elevated tram stations, although the handrails make it look weird. Underground tram station track would probably require modding to achieve. I know that the guys behind MOM have expressed interest in looking into it, but they have a lot of stuff on their plate already.

    Underground train station track is also added via mods, and I remember that some old multi-track underground train stations existed, and did not require Sub-Buildings Enabler - and this was before it was integrated into vanilla. They worked just fine, and it was possible to choose which platform to use.

    Edit: does anybody know if it's possible to repurpose a train track as a tram track? If so, it would be possible to simply download a prettier train track from the workshop and modify it for use with trams instead. 

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  • Original Poster
  • 59 minutes ago, wasmic said:

    There is a tram station track available on the workshop, which also includes sunken tram station track. Elevated tram station track does not exist, but is probably possible, given that both 'Elevated Stops Enabler' and 'Tram Station Track' exist. For now, normal tram track can be used for elevated tram stations, although the handrails make it look weird. Underground tram station track would probably require modding to achieve. I know that the guys behind MOM have expressed interest in looking into it, but they have a lot of stuff on their plate already.

    Underground train station track is also added via mods, and I remember that some old multi-track underground train stations existed, and did not require Sub-Buildings Enabler - and this was before it was integrated into vanilla. They worked just fine, and it was possible to choose which platform to use.

    Edit: does anybody know if it's possible to repurpose a train track as a tram track? If so, it would be possible to simply download a prettier train track from the workshop and modify it for use with trams instead. 

    is that the bloodypenguin one? because that's not simply a station, it's a mod (which obviously has modified code) so i don't think the same sort of station track is possible in the vanilla road editor :)

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