Cloud Assets Experiment

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

As I gazed at the peeks of MrMiyagi's Paradise Reef green mountains, I said to myself, it would be nice if we could have clouds that brushed against the mountains like we see in the Caribbean and many tropical locations where some clouds hang low. Or even look down through clouds at our cities and regions. Or how about taking a first person flight through them in a plane or helicopter. Then @RonyX69 provides us with a script for the rotor shader so we can have semi-transparency and eventually it hit me to try and make 3D cloud billboards just to see what would happen. I also took inspiration from the cloud billboards in Flight Simulator X.

I have mixed feelings about the results so far and I'm not sure if this will go all the way to a workshop item. But I think it's worth a try.

Starting the billboard method:

First thing is to make a plane and map it with the desired cloud texture. Then it's important to duplicate the plane, flip it so the normals are facing opposite directions, offset it a bit so no z-fighting, and then mirror the UV in both X and Y (in Blender). At this point there is a lot more experimenting to do in order to get an good billboard orientation to see a seamless cloud when rotating the best we can so we don't see too many edges from the sides. I will be studying cloud billboard methods and share any interesting info I find. There are many possibilities with all kinds of cloud formations.

How the game renders them...so far:

The clouds do not have a smooth transition between the closeup intended look and the LODs. At LOD distance, they develop hard edges and lose the fluffiness.They also disappear off and on I think when in LOD transition. I don't know if this is a permanent limitation with the rotor shader or if we can overcome it. If not, the best this kind of asset can be is screenshot candy. Also it would be a good idea to make some kind of anchor like a rock so when you want to bulldoze the clouds, you know where the base is since it's high above.

Current challenge: To make better cloud billboards and see if the LOD transition can be improved.

Below are some screenshots of my experiment so far. I did the mesh as a quick test model so please excuse the shape.

 

 

The rest are shots I took forcing good angles with the camera

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next I will make better billboard formations. Maybe some can be simple flat meshes for shots right under or over them. All thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

 

 

 

[Epic Lurker 108]

Fascinating idea! It will be very hard to do with our current understanding of the rotor shader. You've already spotted the two problems:

1. LOD semi-transparency seems to be impossible. You can maybe emulate semi-transparency by dithering full transparency. Actually your screenshots already look reasonable. This is a problem but not a show stopper.

2. Transition from the full model to the LOD is not smooth and there is a step in between where neither is visible. This would be a show stopper for your clouds. We need another breakthrough to get this to work. I posted a while back this could be overcome but turns out that only works in the asset editor and not in game.

 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

1 hour ago, Epic Lurker said:

2. Transition from the full model to the LOD is not smooth and there is a step in between where neither is visible. This would be a show stopper for your clouds. We need another breakthrough to get this to work. I posted a while back this could be overcome but turns out that only works in the asset editor and not in game.

 

I wonder how big is too big for any asset to be in this game? Some clouds can be huge or a huge billboard can have multiple cloud formations on it like high ice cirrus clouds. I wonder what the game would do if a billboard was super big so a LOD distance was covered? Think it would just turn into one big LOD? To be honest I'm a bit afraid to try it.  But I will give that a go in my next test.

[Ronyx69 2,413]

If nobody can figure out and fix rotors lod, I am considering making a mod which disables LOD for all rotors shader buildings/props, and maxes the render distance of the main model instead, maybe do this by taking the size into account, so small fences wouldn't get such a bump in render distance. I already tested it with buildings using mod tools and it works, just had to rebuild the building for it to apply, there's probably some method I need to invoke, since moving the building makes it work as well, the main model was still visible from the other side of the map, idk if it works for props.

The only hard limit in terms of size is the height limit, which I think might be the same height limit the maps have, but measured from the pivot of the asset. You can easily overcome it by making the asset itself not be that high, and just raising it ingame with move it.

There's a softer limit for width - since if a building goes over the lot, and the lot goes outside the view of the camera, it will be culled (disappear). IDK if there's any fix for that.
 

 

[Tomcat22 190]

Looks really cool! I started to think about placing clouds just over airports so we can simulate low visibility approaches 'kinda'. It is not fog but clouds would work too 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Ok, here's an update.

Good news...RonyX69 showed me how to turn off the LOD and set the max/min distance which helped to solve the LOD issue ( No more disappearing on LOD transition and the fluffy image is maintained) but there was a catch. That could only be done in game and would not save from asset editor.. Then TPB actually made a mod for this to work  from the asset editor. So the Cloud Mod will be needed to use the cloud assets. Big thanks to them both!!

The only glitch I still experience is the cloud closest to the camera tend to disappear when the camera is close and turned on an angle but I suspect it have something to do with the size and where the camera is in relation to the cloud. I see it happen with some train station meshes when in first person ride view. Really no big deal though as long as for the most part, this will be intended mainly for screenshots. Hopefully we will have an off/on toggle so the clouds are not in the way when building. I'm also looking into the shadows cast on the ground level. I'm not sure if it's the quality of the image on the mesh (since it's so large) or it would be improved by tweaking the overall shadows in game via the available mods. But that really doesn't bother me that much. Below are shots of my current progress.

So far I started with the simplest billboard shapes to see what use they can be. They are vertical and horizontal planes.

Vertical planes are good for large cumulus clouds in the distance. I gave it a curve at the bottom to give it a "soft landing". You would have to make sure you rotate them to your desired camera view or it will look like a movie set from an angle. Perhaps one day we can figure out how to make this type follow the camera.

 

The horizontal plane type is good for high cirrus clouds. It's more versatile than the horizontal type as you can get some good shots from above and below. In this case I'm hunting for more ultra high quality cloud images since these are most likely to be the biggest models stretching across huge areas. The rest of the screenshots showcases the horizontal type clouds.

In that last shot I used my first horizontal model. Excuse the way the bottom looks at a distance. I improved it as you can see in the shots above it.

That was my first ever built airport for this game BTW The clouds are forcing me to finally get into them. The planes look cool flying through the clouds.

Next, I'm focusing on getting some puffy clouds with a volumetric look. This is a tricky task given how the game renders things so I have to fake the volumetric look with the billboards similar to how I make trees. But clouds are a different animal. The challenge is to get them to look soft and "cloudy" like smoke without the billboards being too obvious. I don't expect it to turn out perfect but I will try to get as close as I can. In fact, I cannot say at the time of this post that a good looking puffy cloud is even doable to a quality worth sharing on the workshop but I will try my best. Stay tuned.

 

[Miccrosshill 367]

my favorite is the one on the third picture - awsome work Mr_Maison - you are rocking !!!

[Tomcat22 190]

This is fantastic. Process is going so fast even for such hard task. I hope we will be able to use it soon. Awesome!!

[Rotype 121]

I never realized how much I need proper clouds.

[DaEgi 14]

beautiful !!!

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Hey everyone! I been away from modding the past few weeks but now I'm back at it. I don't think we will be able to have fluffy volumetric clouds but I am still trying my best. In the mean time, I will just focus on releasing vertical and horizontal planes in the first set. Here is a quick progress update on a better Cumulonimbus cloud along with some horizontal clouds to give it more depth. Looks like combining the 2 types of planes gives some very interesting results....especially when you move around in game. But I must stress that the large vertical planes are much better to place on the outskirts of the map and orientated to face where you want to take your shots.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Next I will show some more combinations. I plan to have the first volume on Workshop soon.

[Avanya 2,605]

Awesome!  Looking forward to these - they'll add so much to screenshots and scenic tours of cities.

[Alexgru88 19]

looks way too good and photorealistic :DDD

consider this as a compliment)

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Just bringing this thread back to life as I decided to release the first cloud set very soon. But first I must do some testing.I been nervous about releasing the cloud planes mainly because of player management concerns and wanting to test extensively in case anything weird happens. I experienced a glitch on the latest map I played with them in where after closing the game, (with a system crash) I opened it up the next day and a lot of the water was levitating at cloud level flooding the place. I have no idea if the clouds had anything to do with it so I will try to reproduce the problem. This will take me a few days.

 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

It's been so long since I tested the clouds. I think something changed since the last update that causes the clouds to glitch out when returning to the saved game after placing them. This is what is happening...

 

Hopefully a solution can be found to fix this soon. Until then I will have to postpone the release again.

[Ronyx69 2,413]

Are they buildings? 

They definitely shouldn't be buildings, not only for this reason, but also they will disappear if you the lot isn't visible.

They should be props, and you should also add a huge invisible triangle spanning way over the edges of it to reduce the culling.

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/73460-ronyx-tutorials-scripts-source-codefiles-new-no-workshop-local-mods-tutorial/?do=findComment&comment=1675096

 

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

1 hour ago, Ronyx69 said:

Are they buildings? 

They definitely shouldn't be buildings, not only for this reason, but also they will disappear if you the lot isn't visible.

They should be props, and you should also add a huge invisible triangle spanning way over the edges of it to reduce the culling.

https://community.simtropolis.com/forums/topic/73460-ronyx-tutorials-scripts-source-codefiles-new-no-workshop-local-mods-tutorial/?do=findComment&comment=1675096

 

I actually made the first ones using a rock template so they can be placed anywhere. I tried a couple other templates including changing to a dummy building AI but still got the same results. BTW, thanks for the tip about culling. For some reason the clouds are affecting the water. My first thought was they are acting as rocks and the water is trying to go over them. If I destroy the clouds, the water starts to wash itself out but not all the way. I wonder if there is a floating asset I can use as a template? Or maybe not let the pivot touch the ground? I have no idea. This was not happening last year.

[Ronyx69 2,413]

Again, don't make them buildings, make them props.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

6 minutes ago, Ronyx69 said:

Again, don't make them buildings, make them props.

Ok, I will try that next. I thought the rocks counted as props. Should the center of the huge triangle be off center from the main model?

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

Problem solved! Thanks @Ronyx69 Making them props does not cause the water to act up.

 

BTW, these clouds change dynamically in appearance with the time of day.

Looks like we're full steam ahead with this.

 

[Pluispixel 60]

Can't wait till they're released! I thought this project was dead, but I'm glad to see I was wrong!

[Paynteck 0]

no, its dead now

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

There was a reason I didn't release these and I totally forgot why. No promises but I'm currently investigating and this may indeed still have hope.

[Mr_Maison 2,426]

So after looking into it again today, I'm reminded that making them into props actually did not solve the saved game water in the sky craziness. Unless I can find a good template that will remedy this issue, this will not be released.