How to prepare my city for medium-density residential

[catpower165061 5]

I need to know how to prepare my industry and civic infrastructure to handle medium-density residential buildings. I have zoned all residential areas medium from the beginning, but I haven't got water coverage. I know that some medium-density is going to build when I do place water coverage. Here's an overview of the city: Res: 500 - Commercial: 740 - Industry: more than 1000.

 

[metasmurf 705]

I'm sure someone might be able to give a better answer than me, but until then:

I would would not zone everything medium density. If you're using an unmodded game (not having NAM installed) you're eventually going to have traffic problems on the streets when all zones develop to medium density buildings. As a first step, I would zone medium density residential only along the avenues. Have them pass commercials on their way to their industrial jobs so they'll drive up the commercial demand.

[Jasoncw 11,933]

Your eventual goal is to provide water and electricity for all zones, hospital/clinic coverage for all residential zones, elementary school coverage for all residential zones, and library coverage for all residential zones. Doing those things will cost money, so you'll want to lower the funding of each building enough so that it provides enough capacity, but without spending money for any capacity that you don't need. 

If your city is profitable enough to pay for the monthly cost of the new buildings I think you can just go ahead and build them. imo SC4 is pretty forgiving because you can usually swing it. As your city grows it will make more money to pay for new things, or you can take out a loan to fund some expansion which will also make more tax money. 

But anyway for me, my cities will be bleeding money if I'm paying for extra capacity at the hospitals and schools, and I'll be very profitable if those things are carefully adjusted. 

So my advice is to just save your city, add water, and swing it. If something goes terribly wrong exit the city without saving and then reload it and you can try something different. 

[catpower165061 5]

Also, should I wait until I gain an even bigger population?

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

As already mentioned, it's easier to control if you zone low density first. Then zone medium and let it grow and attend to their needs. Proceed slowly adding more medium and watch them grow. In my limited playing I found it's too easy to get things way out of kilter if you have a zillion (and 9) things all exploding upward at the same time. Since you already have them zoned for medium, maybe try inching the water to them a wee bit at a time so they don't all take off growing. This'll help you see what's going to happen to your traffic without it becoming a nightmare all at once.

The best advice is just play and see what happens and let us know how it goes.

[MeMyself&I 379]

2 hours ago, catpower165061 said:

I have zoned all residential areas medium from the beginning, but I haven't got water coverage.

To be honest, I never zone anything medium right from the beginning except maybe some industry.  Start low and let it grow.  You'll be surprised how well low density residential will sustain you and for how long but you have to have water for them to grow denser.

1 hour ago, metasmurf said:

I would would not zone everything medium density. If you're using an unmodded game (not having NAM installed) you're eventually going to have traffic problems on the streets when all zones develop to medium density buildings. As a first step, I would zone medium density residential only along the avenues. Have them pass commercials on their way to their industrial jobs so they'll drive up the commercial demand.

Couldn't agree more.  This is very good advice and the truth of the matter is that the vanilla game's traffic controller is all but broken.  Installing NAM, even if you do a custom install and ONLY use the traffic controller and nothing else,  your sims will move about sooooooooo much more efficiently, especially when you do zone denser.  I would even suggest holding off on med res along avenues until you've got some good income and a stable work force in place.  Keep it low density for a time but make sure they have water and aren't too far from jobs - both commercial and industrial.

1 hour ago, Jasoncw said:

Your eventual goal is to provide water and electricity for all zones, hospital/clinic coverage for all residential zones, elementary school coverage for all residential zones, and library coverage for all residential zones. Doing those things will cost money, so you'll want to lower the funding of each building enough so that it provides enough capacity, but without spending money for any capacity that you don't need. 

This advice is gospel.  Also, don't forget you need fire protection as well but don't worry about police right away until you have lots of industry or large lots like transit stations, airports, stadiums or malls.  Don't underestimate a well placed park, playground or beach either.  Even a garden or two in a backyard cul-de-sac will entice people to move in AND to stay.  Sims want to have fun and you'll be amazed at how a neighborhood will take off building if you plop a park in the middle of it, regardless of how dense it's zoned.  The real good message here is don't spend too much on stuff you don't need - including ordinances.  Some are good to start with, especially if they have to do with education or healthcare.  The rest can wait.

49 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

In my limited playing I found it's too easy to get things way out of kilter if you have a zillion (and 9) things all exploding upward at the same time

So true.  Start low and let it grow - there it is again!  You'll be surprised at how well low density residential will sustain your city and for how long.  Some of my best cities still have upwards of 50% or more low density residential, even with populations approaching a million, as long as the infrastructure is there.  Highways, subways and all that can come later when you have lots of money to build them without worrying about cost.  Your advisors will try to bully you into building things you don't need but you can always build them later, regardless of how much stomping and sputtering they do.  Bottom line is; if you try to force the zones to grow they usually won't, and then you'll be stuck with a whole bunch of medium residential lots that your hard working sims simply can't afford to build on.  That's when they head off to the next city tile.  Population and income need to be high to get more density but it will get there even zoned low for a while if you give them plenty of the basics - but don't overextend your resources.  Education and healthcare are the things to focus on if you want your city to grow quickly and densely.

1 hour ago, CorinaMarie said:

The best advice is just play and see what happens and let us know how it goes.

Definitely!  Keep us posted!

[twalsh102 1,601]

Zone density will affect how revenue is generated (think property taxes).  5000 Sims spread across 1 or 200 low density residential lots are going to generate much more revenue than 5000 Sims in a single residential skyscraper.  General rule of thumb is not to start thinking about zoning for higher density until your city is pretty much filled with low density lots.  Yes, it will take longer to start growing the big skyscrapers everyone desire, but your city will be more sustainable over a longer period of time.

Another issue is that at the lower growth stages, there just aren't any medium-density buildings available to grow.  At 500, you just popped into growth stage 3 for residential.  You will need to more than double your residential population to pop into growth stage 4 (normally where you might start seeing med-density buildings).  Even then, initially only 5% of the buildings that grow will be "med-density."  So, as others have said:  'Slow is the way to go!'

Also, I didn't see it specifically mentioned above, but Nothing will grow above growth stage 3 without water.  Trying to save money by not adding water coverage is just going to hobble your city's growth.

[Jasoncw 11,933]

As far as zoning goes, up until a few years ago I always started everything out with high density. The only reason I don't do it now is because I don't actually want high density buildings to grow because they're so unrealistically gigantic (even NYC would be almost entirely medium density residential). The cost of zoning for me, and the gameplay decisions related to zone density, just aren't worth fretting over. To me the zone densities are for artistic control. 

For me when I'm starting a new city I just play fast and loose to build up enough of an income that I can fund my "real" city. 

[MeMyself&I 379]

1 hour ago, Jasoncw said:

As far as zoning goes, up until a few years ago I always started everything out with high density. The only reason I don't do it now is because I don't actually want high density buildings to grow because they're so unrealistically gigantic (even NYC would be almost entirely medium density residential). The cost of zoning for me, and the gameplay decisions related to zone density, just aren't worth fretting over. To me the zone densities are for artistic control.

I've tried to start games with high or medium density but it never worked for me.  Not that the game itself didn't work but moreso that I just didn't like the way it developed.  I honestly don't think I could even run a city into the ground anymore unless I actually tried to and I can always adapt and make it work but it's just never been what I want when it starts out that way.  I've never been a big fan of the huge metropolitan scenarios anyhow, preferring suburban sprawl and rural settings, especially with all the great mods available now.  I totally agree about the way-too-big high density buildings.  Some are pretty cool but, overall, they're simply too much and I'm glad to see someone else thinks that too because I've always felt I was the only one.

I really like your comment on using zoning density for artistic control.  That's an interesting perspective but, in actuality, I'd wager that a lot of people who have played as long as you have probably are the same way.  It is an artistic game, after all.  It's all about designing and building and then making it into a working, functional model.  The aesthetics are what I crave mostly now but you still have to have income to make it work unless you use buggy's extra cheats to fill your coffers.  I've never done that but it could be interesting just to see what I could do with unlimited resources right from the start.  I like to watch things grow, both physically and financially so, I've never entertained the thought before.  Just to set up an entire infrastructure, sparing no expenses, zoning it all crazy high and seeing how it develops right out of the gate. . .  could be very entertaining!

8 hours ago, twalsh102 said:

Also, I didn't see it specifically mentioned above, but Nothing will grow above growth stage 3 without water.  Trying to save money by not adding water coverage is just going to hobble your city's growth.

Absolutely!  Thanks for clarifying that.  Never thought about putting down the specifics for water to growth stage.  I guess I tend to take that for granted now because water is something I always put in right away pretty much everywhere so I just never think about it any other way.

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

6 minutes ago, MeMyself&I said:

I'm glad to see someone else thinks that too because I've always felt I was the only one.

What about this chick?

6 minutes ago, MeMyself&I said:

... water is something I always put in right away pretty much everywhere ...

And I do the opposite. I put no water at all until I know where a tiny little town is going to spring up. Sometimes the only zones that get the water are those within the radius of the water tower. A few hundred years later I might run the pipes out a bit more for expansion of the town.

[MeMyself&I 379]

5 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

What about this chick?

I don't recall you ever saying that you think the high density buildings are too big.  Just that you don't like them Then again, I'm pretty certain I haven't read ALL of your posts either 

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

2 minutes ago, MeMyself&I said:

I don't recall you ever saying that you think the high density buildings are too big.  Just that you don't like them Then again, I'm pretty certain I haven't read ALL of your posts either 

I've often referred to them as metalostrophies. And I guess I sort of thought my whole rural region implied I don't care for skyscraper cities. But, you are prolly right I haven't specifically stated the buildings are too big.

[MeMyself&I 379]

11 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

And I guess I sort of thought my whole rural region implied I don't care for skyscraper cities.

And it does!  Which is one of the many reasons I like it so much   But yeah, @Jasoncw just mentioned that he thought they were "unrealistically gigantic" and I wholeheartedly agree but I've never heard anyone else say that so I thought I was being blasphemous for thinking it.  Imagine my relief!

18 minutes ago, CorinaMarie said:

I've often referred to them as metalostrophies

Yes, yes you have.  I have definitely seen that Cori-ism in another post and I probably should've mentioned that too.  Believe me, I completely understand how you feel about skyscraper cities, me being a country boy myself I pick up on that sentiment fast , but now I can also call you comrade in the whole high-density-buildings-are-too-big line of thinking.  Our numbers are swelling!   Also, it's not only the skyscrapers that are too big but many of the HD res and ind buildings as well.  Some look proportionate and some simply do not.  I actually think a lot of the BATters and LOTters concur on this too (secretly, perhaps) because many of the HD mods for buildings I've seen seem to take proportion into account much better than the vanilla programmers did and they look way better in game than the originals - IMO

[rsc204 21,836]

1 hour ago, MeMyself&I said:

Also, it's not only the skyscrapers that are too big but many of the HD res and ind buildings as well.  Some look proportionate and some simply do not.  I actually think a lot of the BATters and LOTters concur on this too (secretly, perhaps) because many of the HD mods for buildings I've seen seem to take proportion into account much better than the vanilla programmers did and they look way better in game than the originals - IMO

I think that's simply a case of standards improving over time. It's still hard to find the exact scale, because over the years there has been no single set of guidelines to follow. If you emulate Maxis, it's all wrong (IMO), so often I find myself looking at content I want mine to blend with, and going from there. Some items, small stuff mostly, needs to be over-scaled or you simply won't realise an object is there.

[CorinaMarie 29,774]

6 hours ago, rsc204 said:

It's still hard to find the exact scale, because over the years there has been no single set of guidelines to follow.

Seems like a good topic for someone (hint, hint) to write a tutorial (if there isn't one already). Like say if you want to emulate Maxis do this, and this, and this. But, as we've learned over the years if you want more realistic looking stuff do this, and this, and this. (With lots of pictures.)

[rsc204 21,836]

Maybe, but there is always an element of personalisation about scale too. I don't use hard numbers, but play slightly to the grid and then see what works. In fact, getting the initial footprint of my buildings is a long and arduous task for me.

I think the general rule-of-thumb is simply to make the scale based of the real world, but to increase the height of everything to 133% of it's original size. That's a great tip that works well for many modellers, sharing this advice is probably part of why things are that much more consistent these days.

But a level of artistic licence will often be applied too, most creators know when they feel something looks right. Not to mention, a given model won't necessarily blend in with every building out there. Putting together a coherent set is another of those challenges. I have some UK content I wouldn't think of removing, so if I have to ditch the "ideal scale" to make something fit next to it, you bet I'll do that without hesitation. To summarise, yes there is a sensible "equation" for scale, but there are a lot of variables that can easily sway you from it.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Aside from all the infrastructural requirements that are needed before you can technically grow medium or high density buildings, I think its important to think about how it would look. Think of the cities you know, how do they build medium or high density buildings? Usually not right next to each other (unless we are talking wall 2 wall buildings but vanilla sc4 doesn't really have those). The higher density buildings usually are build like separate constructs with stuff like parking lots or little fields of grass and such between them. Also, they usually aren't build right next to a normal street in the middle of a low density residential zone. Think about these things before you build a city where tower blocks are standing right next to each other and your city turns into an architectural dystopia.

Unless of course thats what you're going for  

[rsc204 21,836]

10 hours ago, LexusInfernus said:

Think about these things before you build a city where tower blocks are standing right next to each other and your city turns into an architectural dystopia.

Unless of course thats what you're going for  

Indeed. There are a large number of players who's desire is simply to create the largest metropolis they can. But if you think about it, there are no goals in SC4, you the player, can do whatever you like with the tools available.

So rather than focus on numbers as some sign of success, slow down and plan your zoning with thought and care. If you do, you'll end up with a more natural feeling city-scape, rather than as many towers crammed into the available space as possible. Of course which approach to take should be based on what you are trying to create.