Discourse Community Analysis - SimTropolis

[Cheddar 119]

Hey there, everyone! I rarely post topics here, so I am more or less just a dweller in this website. Been a member for about five years over two accounts. I'm posting this topic just to mainly inform everyone here that I decided to base my final paper in my Advanced Skills & Composition class on this fantastic website. 

As the title suggests, I have to observe a community, take detailed notes, and explain how that particular community utilizes language. Essentially, I will be browsing around the community, observing and taking notes on how everyone uses language. If anyone is inclined in helping, feel free to do so. Just keep these following guidelines in mind:

• How is the language used to form hierarchies?
• How is friendship revealed?
• What purposes, both obvious and subtle, does the use of language specific to this community serve? 

Feel free to also mention any notable events that have occurred in the community over the years. I did learn about John Winterton's passing shortly after it was announced, so no doubt that was a huge blow for the community. 

One thing I would like to ask is, what are all the reputation "levels"? My current reputation in the community is respected, so I was wondering what the other levels could be, as that may aid me in my paper. 

Thanks for reading this and if you are inclined to include anything about the usage of language in this community, that would be much appreciated and thanks in advance! 

*add* After posting, I noticed a "rank" if you will, under my username, so if anyone would be willing to tell me what the other ranks are, that again would be much appreciated. 

[matias93 7,535]

Is like 2 AM here so I'm not on the best situation to divagate about sociology, even if I found it really interesting! For now, and talking about the meaning of internal jargon, maybe this little comic by Mandelsoft would be very self-explaning:

https://community.simtropolis.com/profile/267470-ganaram-inukshuk/?status=25895&type=status

P.S.: I'm sure @Fantozzi will gladly analyse this, is a very insightful forumer; @Edvarz and @CorinaMarie aren't far from that, too.

[TekindusT 3,809]

Can't elaborate much on these points right now, but I can point you to a rank list [link]. It's not really updated and some of the current ranks might be missing, but you'll get the idea. There is still no reputation ranks list as it is quite a new feature and there aren't so many different ranks after all. 

[metasmurf 705]

My two cents: find another subject with more depth/perspectives. Had it been 2006, when the community was more active and there was more drama, maybe. In 2016 however, not so much.

[Fantozzi 4,068]

10 hours ago, Cheddar said:

As the title suggests, I have to observe a community, take detailed notes, and explain how that particular community utilizes language.

Hm. So my five cents on this.

What I like about this community: it is international. What, in my opinion, makes your investigations much more complex and maybe you should think about a community where you have native speakers of one language. But if you insist you have to take this into account and at least have to ask: are there settled social differences between native and non native speakers - or maybe: generates language compentence hierarchy in discussions.

Another problem I see: reputation on SimTrop is formed by different elements that can't be held beeing language. Uploads for example or posting pictures in City Journals. And most probably this forms hierarchy too so in debates someone that has contributed much gaming content is respected more - which isn't affected by language. The same way you have a settled hierarchy f.e. having moderators. So the task to sort out what is driven by language and what is driven by other social elements on SimTrop is quite complex.

If you look on a user like @Tarkus f.e. who maybe one of the most respected members which opinion has a certain weight but because he did so much development for the community. Also you'll have hierarchy depending
on the maturity of membership - why means a mixture of activity and age of membership. That's the case if you look at  'A Nonny Moose', his long time precence. So I can see many components forming hierarchy that aren't language based. And to sort them out ... I'm not shure but if you don't narrow your task that will cause you many troubles to make it a convincing thesis.

But depends - if you start from language and ask 'how language affects social organisation' or if you ask 'how social organisation affects' language.

As regarding hierarchy you willl have mutual influence - you'll have both.

Second question is possible to investigate on SimTrop. First question - imho - very difficult as you can't easyly isolate other influences on hierarchy from what is caused by language competence.

More interesting would be the opposite question: how your social role affects your language? F.e. - do moderators use a different language because of beeing moderators?

But if you insist - you'll have to elaborate the basic qestion, to specify it in a quite strict way - or you'll get confused with the many non-language influences on forming 'social structures' on SimTrop.

It is possible. If you take given reputation into account. If you take a user as Tarkus f.e. who has a given reputation who could be called an 'alpha wolf' and you could anylize how a 'pack' is formed in discussions around such 'key members'. So you would include the non-language element in your task. Maybe.

But maybe you should talk to your professor about investigating 'hierarchy'. As time is a relevant factor to form hierarchies. And regarding debating, poltics, the social interactions that are mainly language based - this can mean you look on processes that are taking years.

That's impossible for you to solve - to make a good thesis without having the necessary time to observe. Well, SimTrop offers the possibility to look back in time. But you would have to pick a single user or maybe two, three and you would have to look how they developed during the years - how their 'linguistic behavior' may have changed during the years.
It's a lot of data you'll have to go through then.

So investigating hierarchy obviously means to regard a certain period of time - again: as it is a question of development.

Or you ask: why opinions are accepted/respected in threads - does it depend on language competence which opinion gets the leading one? But doing this, regarding SimTrop, you get back to the problems I described above.

As you have to isolate all other social components that could influence this.

But first of all: 'written language' is a special case of 'language'. So perhaps the first step of all would be: to think of half an hour what does it mean? In which way language is reduced (regarding talking face to face or by phone etc.) - reflecting on the specific communication situation.

I remember there was a french study about the very same thing - forming communities in forums. It was published this summer. They researched how 'virtual communities' affects real life social interaction. If young adults, if they are mainly participating in social networks become isolated in real life. Surprisingly being active in social forums seems to affect social behavior in a possitive way. This french study - I can't remember anymore which university or the title, sorry - had the conclusion that participating in social networks also develops 'real life social competence' regarding young adults.

Maybe you can drop the hierarchy thing. As asking for forming community with written language - is already interesting enough and forming leadership is a very complex thing language - in my opinion isn't relevant. As on every level of compentence leadership/hierarchy is formed. Language creates peer groups, shure. But inside this peer groups it's different.

Niklas Luhmanns thoughts about how public opinion is formed might help on this.

[EDIT]

Also  Eisabeth Noelle-Neumann  (spiral of silence). Or look for 'forming public opinion' or 'forming public' in social theories. Normally you'll arrive with these two names - at least in germany: Noelle-Neumann and Luhmann. This may give you the backround regarding social theories.

 

[CorinaMarie 29,895]

Hiya, @Cheddar.

I've been an active member on two different sites. My prior home was d2jsp.org which is a simulated merchant site for multiplayer online games such as, but not limited to, Diablo II. Peeps there trade game items for play money called Forum Gold (FG). It's cut throat and represents (mostly) the worst of capitalism.

I'm unsure how or if it would work into your paper or not, but the contrast between the language there and here is significant. On ST one finds nearly all peeps are friendly, articulate, and helpful. Long, thoughtful discussions ensue in many threads. On Jsp, it's more brevity, chat-speak-like talk, and nearly impossible to have a useful discussion.

[matias93 7,535]

I'll second Corina on that point: the underlying activity that congregates the forum is crucial to determine its members' behaviour and language. Here, the game we are playing is about planification, observation and contemplation, and its goals are mainly subjective and esthetical; in fact, the only other forum where I've found this same kind of community organisation (briefly: a group of attentive experts helping lots of occasional users, accompanied by several recurrent forumers with specifical interests) is in a gardening forum, which is very logical conceptually.

I would say that here, informal hierarchy is mainly attested by means of expertise, of the ability to answer questions in an effective way. See, for example, how @Yarahi, not being a custom content creator, is a highly respected and admired member, because of the community experiences on the Can't find it thread: one can ask for basically anything custom related and Yarahi will have a swift and precise answer; there is trust and respect implied there.

Note also how the internal economy of the community drives specifical transactions: as the main commodity is free-of-charge custom content, the 'pay' is expressed in open acknowledgement to the creators, praising of their abilities and the quality of their work. 

[Fantozzi 4,068]

57 minutes ago, matias93 said:

Note also how the internal economy of the community drives specifical transactions: as the main commodity is free-of-charge custom content, the 'pay' is expressed in open acknowledgement to the creators, praising of their abilities and the quality of their work. 

All what can be called 'social' has a payment the same as known from childhood: care, attention, love. There is no shame - I hope so - to say I'm greedy for 'likes' the same way I was greedy for my mother saying: "You did well, boy."  It's like recreating those childhood days - the feeling of beeing accepted, of having a family I'm welcomed in, a pack that likes my smell. Basically that's what Noelle-Neumann says only the negative way by making the fear of isolation the central point of her thesis.

And if you think of the influence of 'money' on social standing - one could argue that even money is only used for exchange to get the very same: care, attention, love. As getting some extra money if you did a job well - for shure this is something related on the very same emotion: getting acknowledgement.

And this is where social bounds starts amongst mammalians - getting milk from the breast. And if I was an evil mind I could say: that's all what mankind does: inventing virtual breasts to give some kind of reward to make us feel we are welcomed here, on this planet, in this world - to make us feel this is the place we are at home, giving care, attention and love to human beings. One would suddenly understand all those ancient myths of a 'mother earth'. 

Money is for (economic) wealth. But then - what does wealth mean? It's like an echo from far away, from those childhood days when you felt cozy in someone elses arms.

So yes. There are many different transactions, different payments and economies. But the social mechanics is the same. As they are only further technical developments of a primal experience.

But the most interesting thing about this might be - that words can make a home. 'Nice to hear from you", "how do you do" etc.

What wolfes do by smell - we can do by words. 

So the currency we pay acknowledgement here - isn't it simply written words? Incredible - what they can do to us, isn't it?

[Fantozzi 4,068]

Apologizes - but just to complete a thought. Last year I heared a speech from europes most known profiler Thomas Müller who investigated some of the most terrible crimes.

And during his career talking to hundreds of psychopaths he found a very simple chain that works on every human beeing, he said. Isolations creates stress and stress creates violence.

And from my observation this seems true, seeing people becoming stressed in debates by feeling they become isolated with their opinion - so their words changes. They become more agressive. They rise voice, which in a written language has a different result.

Well, so maybe this: language is an indicator of the level of stress media creates?

Just a thought.

[Cheddar 119]

Thanks for all the responses! I'm currently on my phone, so I won't be able to elaborate as much as I would. However, my professor for the class provided a PowerPoint for us and it contains further questions that may make the topic a little more doable in a sense. 

• What topics, issues, problems, concerns keep this community together? 

• What constitutes new knowledge in your group? 

     ▪Is it created experimentally? 

     ▪Through discussion? 

     ▪ Other means?

• How would you characterize the kinds of language used? 

     ▪ Formal? Informal?

     ▪ Complex? Simple?

     ▪ How are the reasons for                             the community's existence                         reflected in its language? 

• Does the community produce written documents? 

     ▪ What is their purpose? 

     ▪ Intended audience? 

     ▪ Language? How does it differ from           other communities? 

Most of these questions I could easily answer on my own, but I would also like to see your responses to them. In terms to the question concerning if written documents are produced, I believe my essay may include the reason why I joined this community in the first place: SimCity 4. The written documents, in this case typed, could include the documentation for addons for the game, such as the Network Addon Mod. I've venture into the modding pages every now and then and I think the language used there could aid me in various ways, such as properties in GMax and so on, as referenced in the comic by Mandelsoft. Very funny, by the way. 

I'll elaborate more once I get the chance, but thanks again for the responses. If any formatting issues are present in my reply, blame my phone. Thanks again!

[CorinaMarie 29,895]

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

What topics, issues, problems, concerns keep this community together?

It's all held together with Super Glue and Duct Tape to form a rigid platform for us members.

Ok, maybe a little bit more serious reply, but first my disclaimer: I only play SC4 and so the fora related to that are basically all I know about.  This site supports other games too.  They are irrelevant to me personally so I have no idea what wonderful things go on other than the few places I frequent.  That said, I believe there are several aspects which keep this site fun and active. There are all the Show Us threads where peeps post pics of what they have created. That's both useful to those of us who want to show off something we made and to those who look for inspiration for their own projects. I'm uncertain if there are any issues that keep this community together, but there certainly are the problems peeps have trying to run the game on later OS's and helpful members willingly provide answers in the Technical Bugs forum. There's also an active modding and batting section that I've only popped into occasionally.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

What constitutes new knowledge in your group?

New knowledge is relevant to what one knows and doesn't know. Every time I learn something new that I can do in the game it's new to me yet old hat to those who already knew it. Then there are the discoveries that no one knew about before like @simmaster07's .dll creations. Those open up new possibilities in the game and are exiting.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Is it created experimentally?

Yes, or thru trial and error and educated guesses. My own example is when I started poking around with map making. Other members pointed me to various programs already designed to accomplish that. I was, however, stubborn inasmuch as I wanted to know the how's and why's of it rather than just using someone else's tools. So, even tho the game is like 13 years old, I did come up with an alternate method and wrote a tutorial for it which has been a Featured Topic on the home page since August (iirc). Based on replies in that thread, peeps were pleasantly surprised.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Through discussion?

Yep. That too. Again my own example (since I know my experience more than I know other peep's) is when I was using the New Zone Data View in NAM. It didn't hide the trees like the default Maxis one and so I asked about that. After discussion with @rsc204 I had enough to go on to find where to poke around. Then thru trial and error I was able to create my own modded version of it. Without the discussion part I'd've been too lost to start on the project.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

How would you characterize the kinds of language used?

It's most always English.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Formal? Informal? Complex? Simple?

I would rate it closer to formal because peeps here talk in complete sentences to express ideas. Proper spelling and grammar are used more frequently than average. The vocabulary used displays erudition not found on many other sites. It is often more complex because technical details get discussed a lot. But it's also informal cause ya can just say whatever's on your mind and peeps won't nitpick you for that either. Like I know one chick who simply never says people even tho she's well aware peeps is not proper English. She does the same thing substituting prolly for probably. I doubt many peeps mind this as her posts overall seem to be coherent.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Does the community produce written documents?

Yes.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

What is their purpose?

Typically they will be tutorial style. Someone may ask a question and another will produce a tutorial to explain it. @rsc204 was replying in depth to a private message when he realized an Omnibus tutorial would benefit more peeps. Then there's that prolly peeps chick who wanted to install some terrain related mods but was confuzzled by all the choices so she chose to make picture catalogues of every one of those mods. While it was mainly for her own use, she posted them online here so others might use them too.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Intended audience?

The intended audience is peeps who don't know what they want to know and will know it once they read the produced documents.

5 hours ago, Cheddar said:

Language? How does it differ from other communities?

As I implied before, the language here is more sophisticated than the other site I'm intimately familiar with. I've made 21,656 posts there. You could say I was extremely active.  However, those posts could be as simple as 3 characters. Jsp is a trading site so let's say someone posts an ISO (In Search Of) thread for a particular game item. I have it so my reply could be as simple as: 1 fg. That tells the person I have the item they want and I will sell it for one Forum Gold.

I personally believe if one conducted a study they'd discover the average IQ of Simtropolites to be well above the average of most other sites. That's prolly because city building games take a special desire and mental ability to enjoy.

[rivit 3,402]

@Cheddar - It is an interesting challenge you set for yourself, and may not be doable here.
 - My take on your questions -
 
 What topics, issues, problems, concerns keep this community together? 

 Anything associated with the city games we play, develop and love. Defense of what we hold dear and that might be affected by game vendors, operating systems and governments. Well, probably not governments.

• What constitutes new knowledge in your group? 

     ▪Is it created experimentally? 

     ▪Through discussion? 

     ▪ Other means?
  
All of the above - a good deal is due to pushing the boundaries of the virtual worlds we live in - technically, aesthetically. Since the games are simulations, we Simtrop humans seem to be obsessed with finding every kink, limitation, feature and surprise in the black box. Someone makes a discovery, its shared, someone else uses it to make another and a cascade of advance occurs. After 13 years for SC4 the constraints are quite well known so further advance is difficult, occasional and hence exciting, but the newer games are still under deep exploration.

• How would you characterize the kinds of language used? 

     ▪ Formal? Informal?
   ranges across the spectrum but not overly formal
   
     ▪ Complex? Simple?
   probably more complex than most - being careful to be precise in expressing ideas and concepts is a necessary skill with technical topics. Probably hard at first for those whose first language is not English and certainly a trial for those needing to use Google translate. But everyone helps along.
   
     ▪ How are the reasons for the community's existence reflected in its language? 
   As a fan site for these sorts of games the language ultimately reflects a lot of technical things. It is however also  honest, humorous, attitude-neutral, friendly and non-aggressive, and self-regulating (notwithstanding the admins). All of these characteristics mean I like to come back to dwell and browse. Having said that, in its full heyday weighty disputes were not unknown.
   
• Does the community produce written documents?  Yes

     ▪ What is their purpose? 
   A lot of explaining documents, sharing information/discovery documents
   
     ▪ Intended audience? 
   Anyone looking to learn and extend themselves - and everyone who hangs about here does.
   
     ▪ Language? How does it differ from other communities? 
    I think its quite communal i.e. sharing - Anyone trying to get ahead of themselves may experience an Icarus moment, but you won't see discussion descending into personal abuse inside 3 posts. We also prefer the 10 minute arghument to the half hour. Its a big fshbowl.

[Cyclone Boom 17,031]

A bit late to the party, but I'll do my best to answer your questions...
 

What topics, issues, problems, concerns keep this community together?

As this is the site's focus, the main topical interests are obviously related to the city-building games played and discussed. So rather than an individual game, it's the city-building genre as a whole which unites Simtropolis. The site's slogan "Many cities, one community" rather sums this up. We each have our own unique interests, but come together here to discuss a common ground.

Simtropolis is both a creative and problem solving community. Since these games can be considered artist's tools, there is undoubtedly lots of creativity involved. Unlike other genres, there is no clear end goal -- it's the player's choice how to build and manage their city. There are endless ways to go about this. Here around the site, this is reflected in the various contributions. Whether developing new custom content, showcasing progress, or providing technical assistance, it all relates back to the mutual city-building ground shared.

What constitutes new knowledge in your group?

This really applies to all games of interest here at Simtropolis. New knowledge is gained through delving into the game's mechanics, or exploring how something works in finer detail. This can open new possibilities for gameplay strategies, or techniques to develop custom content.

• Is it created experimentally?
  Knowledge is mostly gained experimentally. Particularly with SimCity 4, support from Maxis (the devs) has long since ended. This has led to the community experimenting and finding new discoveries very much through trial and error. The NAM and some of the more recent mods by simmaster07 are prime examples of this.
   
• Through discussion?
  Since Simtropolis is an online forum-based community, written discussion is the primary method of communication.
   
• Other means?
  There are also resources and tutorials created (e.g. in the Omnibus), which can lead to questions, comments and further discussion.

How would you characterize the kinds of language used?
Formal? Informal? Complex? Simple?

The types of language does vary depending on each topic and section of the site. I'd say the majority of discussions have a more informal tone, but at the same time, complex language can still be used. This is especially more prevalent in the technical and modding forums, where specific jargon is frequently used relating to the game or technology (computers).

A good example of this is from the acronym system implemented in the site's software. This provides definitions to commonly used abbreviations. Many of these are unique to the community, and wouldn't be relevant outside of it. The vast majority relate to the Network Addon Mod (NAM), which is a game-changing transportation mod for SimCity 4. As it adds many new networks and features, these have been abbreviated to make them easier to be referred.

If it's of any help, a full list of the current ones can be found here.

Of course, there's also off-topic sections and the chat room, which tend to both welcome more casual chat. Current Events can get a bit heated at times though!

How are the reasons for the community's existence reflected in its language?

When Simtropolis was founded in 2003, it was on the basis of SimCity 4, when it was the new kid on the block. Over time, as the community has grown, the language familiar with the game has developed. It's since become integrated and synonymous with how the community interacts. All the specific jargon has built up, which again, is directly the result of being a city-building community. As it's been the focus for the longest time, SimCity 4 has the most influence of language used. The newer games share a few similarities (e.g. RCI), but to the same extent, haven't yet developed a wide-ranging technical language.

Does the community produce written documents?

Yes, guides and tutorials are created by members of the community. These are most commonly found in the Omnibus, or forum topics.

• What is their purpose?
  They can vary depending on each subject. But the general purpose is to inform other members how to achieve a desired end result. For example, this multi-part guide on how to use the Building Architect Tool (BAT), explains the process of creating a custom game model.
   
• Intended audience?
  Anyone interested in the subject of the article, either registered or prospective members of the community.
   
• Language? How does it differ from other communities?
  Simtropolis is an English speaking community. But the types of terms used do differ from elsewhere. Again, a good example is with the jargon relating to the city-building games. These are specific, and aren't all universally defined terms in the English language.