Exporting ploppable ships

[tiemanjw 38]

I created a model museum ship I'd like to put into the game.  My main focus is eye candy (having museum functionally would be a bonus).  My problem is now that I've completed the model (pictured below), I have no idea what to do.  I've tried exporting, and have moved the model around in an attempt to "offset render".  That seems to allow me to move it around, but I don't know what to do other than that.

My objective is

1) keep the red part of the hull below the water (it is below z=0 in the model, and the LOD stops at z=0)

2) get the brow and stairway over land, but off the "lot" itself.  This would be to allow me to place the ship next to an existing park of my choice (probably one of the PEG CDKs). 

3) not have any underlying textures or cause any water bugs.

 

Is there a tutorial or can someone help walk me through this process.  I have several boats I'd like to export and get into the game this way, and would appreciate any help given.

 

  Edited December 28, 2015 by Cyclone Boom  
Split to new topic.

[rsc204 21,804]

One issue with game water is that it may have varying levels of transparency. I'm not sure if simply stopping the LOD at ground level will work. SC4 will render the textures below ground level if they are within the cameras view, even if the LOD doesn't exist. My understanding is that for ships to work with game water, you will need a very tight LOD which is an exact replica of the hull itself. If on the other hand you wanted to use it as a prop for Canals, MMPs or lot-based water systems, then you don't need to worry about it.

If you want to get the perfect offset values first time, you'll need to do the math to work it out. A game tile is 16m, so from the centre to the edge is an offset of 8m. You then need to add half the width of the model on top of this for the stairs to be on the edge. After exporting the model you can adjust the Occupant Size property (in the Prop or Buildings Exemplar). If you do this, you can make the bounding box of the prop small enough to fit on one tile, with the model overhanging it. Often with such models, adjustments to the offset are needed along the way, take a look at SC4 Model Tweaker which can offset models quickly without re-rendering.

[tiemanjw 38]

Thanks rsc204.  I am looking to put it on game water (at least for now).  And what you say appears to be correct.  When the LOD blocks the view of the hull underwater, than it is shown in game in full color (as if the water isn't there).  Getting the LOD out of the way (form fitting the hull, and cutting it down around the flight deck seems to do the trick. 

Also, thanks for the model tweaker - it helps a lot for fine tuning where I want the model.  I also was able to adjust the occupant size, so it only "takes up" one tile. 

I now just have one problem (I think) remaining.  Now, when ever I export it, the north view zoom 5 is all messed up (see picture below).  There seems to be some kind of offset diagonal shift on the aft half of the boat and a red and blue triangle near where the back would be.  I've tried exporting several times, readjusting the LODs, restarting... and it keeps showing up - just on zoom 5 north view.  Any ideas what that might be?

I'm using bat4max5 with 3ds max 2010.

[rsc204 21,804]

It's hard to say exactly what is wrong here. A couple general points, firstly make sure you've got the texture fix for SC4 BAT installed then re-render the ship.

Do you have any problems with the preview in 3DS Max if you set Z5/North?

Assuming the 3DS Max preview is fine and you've got the texture fix, it might be easiest if you can send me a copy of the model file. I can look into what the problem is then.

[tiemanjw 38]

Thanks again... I added the texture fix,  but no luck there.  So I thought maybe I screwed up something on the model when messing with the LODs... So I started over, importing the model from a previous save and the newer skin tight LODs.  I also deleted some aircraft I added to the deck (the screw up seemed to be starting right where one of the aircraft was).  I'm guessing I can just add them as props in the lot editor. 

Not sure what it was, but it appears to be working now - I'll proceed cautiously optimistic.  I'm sure I'll need some more help before I finish this project.

[rsc204 21,804]

Glad to hear you've got it working. Did the LOD previously cover the airplanes on the deck? If not that could be the source of your problems.

Skin-tight LODs though are a good thing, and making items like the planes separate props can have a number of advantages.

[tiemanjw 38]

No... I wanted to add people to the deck, so I kept the LODs at deck level... perhaps something to look at.

I've been worried about skin tight LODs due to performance issues.  I don't know that there are any, I just made the assumption more vertex, more computations, slower performance.  As a result, I've been using boxy LODs.  Are there any known issues with using more complex LODs, and if so, is there some general guidance as to how complicated is too complicated?

[rsc204 21,804]

The LODs at deck level are fine If you want to add the props separately. Since otherwise the props LODs would potentially clash. However if you just put a simple box surrounding such objects and attach them to the main LOD. You'd still be able to place props in areas not covered by the LOD itself.

As for LODs and performance issues, welcome to the wonderful world of 2.5D. Because SC4 only renders the LOD simplistically, which becomes your model, the exported model is always very simple. The renderer simply works out how to apply a texture and this texture provides the illusion of a 3D object which is actually only 2D.

In-short for SC4 at least (proper 3D models are not the same), you simply need never worry about it.

[tiemanjw 38]

Thanks again... so if I read you correctly, as far as SC4 gameplay is concerned, LOD complexity doesn't matter?  It might affect the render but once in the game, not so?

[rsc204 21,804]

Spot on.

[His Divine Hand 244]

Just to save you the headache of realizing this yourself, if you offset the boat prop, then you will not be able to place any other props upon the ship if they would be outside the lot boundaries.

[SimCoug 5,972]

Although you can also offset the props to make it work.  Neat model! 

[tiemanjw 38]

Thanks all.  Yes, I face palmed about the props shortly after writing that.  I think my overall solution will be a combination.  Most of the boat will not need to be offset and can be set upon a lot.  This way I can add props in the manner rsc204 described above.  I'll use the "offset" for the brow which will allow it to sit "over" any existing land (see pictures below for example). 

My goal is to create ploppable boats with no dependencies that can blend into some of the beautiful existing lots already out there like PEG CDK, SNM or the NBVC work. 

[airman15 4,111]

I want them in my plugins!

And if that Nimitz class includes Tomcats and Hornets, you will win me over!

[rsc204 21,804]

You might want to take a look at the reflections on the surface of the boat in the first picture. To me that makes the deck look wrong, I don't think such surfaces are usually so reflective.

Otherwise you've some wonderful models here, they will certainly fill some gaps in what is currently available. Great stuff :).

[philforhockey51 4,203]

Yes, anyone that can help them please do these are beautiful models and I'm sure many of us would love to have them in game.

 

[tiemanjw 38]

hmm... I didn't put any reflection on the deck.  Just "weathering" - I airbrushed some white to add a weather faded appearance, then some black to simulate dirt.  Then blured and smeared it around.  I can't find any quality color pictures of decks from this time, so I'm basing off what I've seen some model builders do.  Perhaps I should lower the opacity of the weathering layers?  She is an old boat - suggestions for how to make the deck look that way are welcome.

As for tomcats and hornets - I've never seen them on deck in port (except for the crash plane).  That is of course my excuse as I having little skill modeling A/C and less desire because of it.  I do plan to add some tractors, tilly, and misc "junk".  I also hope to adjust the LODs down to deck level so that props can be added.  The Nimitz though is currently a nightmare.  The island was done in 3ds max years ago for something else, and the hull was done in GMAX even longer ago, for something entirely else.  I have tilly, tractors, and the brow modeled in GMAX, but porting them over to 3ds max has been nothing but headaches.

I'm also not sure what in-game function they should serve.  Currently they are just "parks" (eye candy).  I don't want to force a road requirement, so I think that limits me.  Any thoughts?

Should I start a new thread for suggestions on some of these various BATs?

[rsc204 21,804]

I think eye-candy is probably the best way to go, since many of these ships would look great at sea and not just docked. If you can muster it, Diagonal/FAR renders could make you a hero, I don't think there are many boats rendered this way.

Looking at the texture (I'm no expert) it just seems shiny, which doesn't seem right. Perhaps use a dark colour for the weathering, it looks like you've used white, hence I thought initially they are cloud reflections. Otherwise try to make the base colour more dull. I might be able to help with this, if you send me the original textures.

Take a look here for an easy way to convert gMax to 3DS max models, it worked fine for me.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

16 hours ago, tiemanjw said:

hmm... I didn't put any reflection on the deck.  Just "weathering" - I airbrushed some white to add a weather faded appearance, then some black to simulate dirt.  Then blured and smeared it around.  I can't find any quality color pictures of decks from this time, so I'm basing off what I've seen some model builders do.  Perhaps I should lower the opacity of the weathering layers?  She is an old boat - suggestions for how to make the deck look that way are welcome.

Well, the flight deck of practically all of the WWII aircraft carriers - including Enterprise / Hornet and the other Essex and Yorktown class carriers - was wood, most likely painted over in blue in your case. Therefore, realistic signs of wear might include that wood shining through the paint in places where it was worn down. In any case, the deck paint would have been bleached out by sun & sea, so I think it could use a fair bit of desaturation. Of the bazillions of models that exist out there, I think this one gives one good idea of what the overall colour appearance may have been like (albeit maybe a bit too grey). The site shows many more ship models of all classes and ages, most built by very good modelers, so it could be a useful source of inspiration for you.

Modding-wise, I agree that making them eye candy without any in-game function is probably the best approach. The most likely use for these is a navy base or maybe, just maybe, a museum (for the older ships at least). The game doesn't require a navy base, and there's plenty of choice for museums already, so I don't see that much benefit in giving these ships full-blown functionality other than being there and looking great - which they certainly do!

[tiemanjw 38]

Thanks for the help guys.  T Wrecks....that model looks great.  I'll see what I can come up with over the weekend.  The Enterprise was indeed meant to be a museum ship in my city (from a visual perspective, at least).  I'm also working on a Fletcher class DD from the era and my aspiring architect son is designing the museum to tie it all together.  The others I wanted as an active base - but to fit in with the already fine waterfronts out there as I have no desire to duplicate the excellent work done by others.  I thought perhaps jobs (I-M I would think) might be nice, but not at the cost of forcing a road connection.  Perhaps I could add a "pier gate house" to act as the jobs at some point down the line.

rsc204 - I did use that site to try to transfer over.  It worked fine for the hull, but for some reason it doesn't like the "junk".  It has a real hatred for Tilly for some reason turning it into some nautilus shell like thing.  I'll keep poking at it.

Sounds like eye candy is the way to go.  Is there a tutorial out there for custom queries?  The normal "parks" query just seems a bit underwhelming.  Also, is there a general guidance for how much park / landmark effect, pollution, power, water, budget to use? 

I was going to attempt to do 45 deg renders as well, but I wanted to get a base set out first.  Is there anything more to it than rotating the model (with LODs) than exporting it (and adjusting the occupant size I assume)?

  Edited January 8, 2016 by tiemanjw  
fixed typos

[tiemanjw 38]

thoughts?

[SimCoug 5,972]

Awesome!  Big E looking good

The red hull could be desaturated a bit... looks pretty bright compared to the rest of the texturing.
45 degree renders would be a great addition!  
You could take a look at some of the maxis park numbers as a guide, but since it's going to be eye candy, I don't think anybody would complain if you kept all the values at 0.  

[JP Schriefer 5,590]

I follow SimCoug

Btw, looks like your image is in 1:2 proportion. If you click on that disk icon you can save the image in its real size

[tiemanjw 38]

On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 1:32 PM, SimCoug said:

The red hull could be desaturated a bit... looks pretty bright compared to the rest of the texturing.
 

agreed.

 

I was also able to get the CVN junk imported.  Turns out there were a few objects that for some reason, screwed up the export / import process.  Deleting and recreating those objects (I think there were 3), and it worked good. 

[rsc204 21,804]

Much better, the first model has been hugely improved. I think the red is probably OK.

[tiemanjw 38]

Ok... I think I'm about ready to release these... but I'm still having one nagging issue that perhaps you can help me with.  When doing the night lights, I would get one direction where the lights would bloom into large circles of a solid color.  I think I figured the problem out in max, but when I export it, the problem doesn't go away.  I've even gone so far to delete the lights, and still the ship in SC4 shows the issue.  It seems as if new exports are not overwriting the old ones in the model file.  Is there a way I can make sure the new renders take over the old?  Or failing that, is there a way I can create a new model without having to do the plugin manager / lot editor / reader stuff all over again?

[rsc204 21,804]

The model is essentially just the LODs (S3D) with the rendered textures applied. To generate a new one, simply delete the existing model before exporting.

The other solution is to remove the lights, merge your file into a new gMax file, then create the lights anew. This is one of the many wonders of gMax that sometimes it holds onto things within the file, even though they've changed.

[tiemanjw 38]

Ok, I have the Truman (carrier), Fleet replenishment oiler, and the destroyer ready to go.  Before I release them, though, would anybody care to give them a final quality assurance check?  I tested them in my game and they seem to work fine, but a second set of eyes never hurt.

[SimCoug 5,972]

18 minutes ago, tiemanjw said:

Before I release them, though, would anybody care to give them a final quality assurance check? 

Sure, I can plop 'em around a bit if you want.

[tiemanjw 38]

On ‎02‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 1:50 PM, SimCoug said:

Sure, I can plop 'em around a bit if you want.

Thanks.  I sent you a PM with the AO and DDG in it.  The CVN is a bit to big for the PM limits though.