Network Extensions Project

[Bad Peanut 826]

7 hours ago, DaEgi said:

Hello together,

thanks for all the great work.

I have a question/suggestion regarding "dynamic roads", where you can add lanes on demand. As far as I understand the problem, there is no way to make roads "dynamic", since the pieces must be are precalculated and prerendered. But is it possible the fake this via a lot of premade roads and an more sophisticated upgrade tool? My idea would be something like this (additional upgrade buttons with nice icons and a well designed placement):

(toggle left parking) (Remove left lane) (Add left lane) (increase width) (Change median) (tooggle bus lanes) (toggle bike lanes) (toggle tram tracks) (toggle decoration) (Add right lane) (Remove right lane) (toggle right parking)

you could start for example with a regular 2 lane road. if you select "add right lane" and click on a 2 lane road segment, the tool should realize that it has to upgrade the 2 lane road segment to an asym. 1+2 road. another click would upgrade it to a 1+3 road, or to a narrow 4 lane road with "add left lane". the narrow 4 lane could be upgraded to a 2+2ave ("Four-Lane Road") with "increase width" etc etc.

I imagined an upgrade tree with some gaps atm and the upgrade tools would skip these gaps if intuition allows, but these gaps could be filled up with time and lots of effort, and the upgrade tools would upgrade accordingly.

(Add left lane) (increase width) (Add right lane) are of course the most important ones.

Is something like that possible? Have not checked out the netcode yet.

techanically i think if you had all the different roads you needed to allow all the different combination you could, but that's such an astronomical and unfeasible number because for every road combination you need 4x meshes and textures for ground, elevated, bridge and slope segments (possibly tunnel as well) so it would add way too much memory to be even worth it. the game already slows down on the average computer with the NExt roads at a certain population so i can imagine the stuttering it would do with every possible combination.
 

[Matthias King 348]

I must have missed something. What's happened?

[Bad Peanut 826]

2 hours ago, Matthias King said:

I must have missed something. What's happened?

you can always read through previous pages to find out  hahahaa

but there's a new couple of mods 'trying' to expand on NExt 2, whether it's being done successfully still remains to be seen - and i think the new author has been overwhelmed by the response, they certainly haven't implemented any hotfixes to the various issues it creates

[Matthias King 348]

I actually did look back through the past couple of pages, but I couldn't really follow a 'story' of what was happening. I just got that something might be wrong with NExt, but I couldn't tell what.

So this is some related mod that's having issues and not actually NExt itself?

[Bad Peanut 826]

13 minutes ago, Matthias King said:

I actually did look back through the past couple of pages, but I couldn't really follow a 'story' of what was happening. I just got that something might be wrong with NExt, but I couldn't tell what.

So this is some related mod that's having issues and not actually NExt itself?

yeah it is, take a look at this: (it seems to be really cool in concept but lacks execution)

(1): A new version of NExt 2 with Mass Transit fixes

(2): An extension to NExt 2 with Mass Transit fixes

 

Basically my experience is this: (1) is supposed to replace Lazarus*man's NExt with some new fixes for Mass Transit, unfortunately the author has done something to make it break the LOD's from Lazarus's NExt so if you enable just (1) then it breaks a save - so you need to have both versions subbed and somehow it equals out??

 

If you want the extra roads that come in the extension then you need to have Lazarus's NExt, (1) and (2) installed and even then it is still horribly put together with menu icons missing and not very good concepts going - some of the roads have inner fast lanes that are separated from outside lanes via a median strip BUT the cars can still cross over median (a limitation of the game i think) and the outside lanes have a 80% slower speed limit so any traffic that needs to use those lanes take an age to get to their destinations. And i understand the author making them slower so cars choose to use the faster inside lanes over the outside lanes, but maybe they should have just reduced the speed by 5% so the game still separates traffic but traffic can still drive at a reasonable pace (without needing speed changing mods that take up more memory)

[alborzka 66]

7 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

basically all of them disappear instead of actually being rendered. so the roads turn blue and the buildings disappear so you can only see the colour of the terrain/concrete from the lots

:0 that's weird, I definitely don't have that problem! I also have all my tabs showing up so I don't know what's going on :/ Then again, I subbed/unsubbed the original NEXT2 and those 2 new mods to see what combo worked best a bunch of times (and then finally settled) so maybe that's what it requires? Still pretty messy regardless tho.

[Matthias King 348]

1 hour ago, Bad Peanut said:

yeah it is, take a look at this: (it seems to be really cool in concept but lacks execution)

(1): A new version of NExt 2 with Mass Transit fixes

(2): An extension to NExt 2 with Mass Transit fixes

 

Basically my experience is this: (1) is supposed to replace Lazarus*man's NExt with some new fixes for Mass Transit, unfortunately the author has done something to make it break the LOD's from Lazarus's NExt so if you enable just (1) then it breaks a save - so you need to have both versions subbed and somehow it equals out??

 

If you want the extra roads that come in the extension then you need to have Lazarus's NExt, (1) and (2) installed and even then it is still horribly put together with menu icons missing and not very good concepts going - some of the roads have inner fast lanes that are separated from outside lanes via a median strip BUT the cars can still cross over median (a limitation of the game i think) and the outside lanes have a 80% slower speed limit so any traffic that needs to use those lanes take an age to get to their destinations. And i understand the author making them slower so cars choose to use the faster inside lanes over the outside lanes, but maybe they should have just reduced the speed by 5% so the game still separates traffic but traffic can still drive at a reasonable pace (without needing speed changing mods that take up more memory)

Right on. Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't even know those mods came out. I check the workshop regularly, but I don't usually pay attention to mods. I almost always wait until I hear about them here first before I check any out. If everyone on here says it's cool and works well, then I trust it enough to give it a try.

I'll be watching to see what happens with this one. Maybe once the issues are all worked out it will become one of the must-haves.

[Bad Peanut 826]

2 minutes ago, Matthias King said:

Right on. Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't even know those mods came out. I check the workshop regularly, but I don't usually pay attention to mods. I almost always wait until I hear about them here first before I check any out. If everyone on here says it's cool and works well, then I trust it enough to give it a try.

I'll be watching to see what happens with this one. Maybe once the issues are all worked out it will become one of the must-haves.

I hope Andreharv incorporates it when he's back

[jumonjii 19]

Are they worth adding to the game?

[Bad Peanut 826]

2 hours ago, jumonjii said:

Are they worth adding to the game?

I was thinking about it and I don't actually consider them adding better gameplay tbh - the nice ideas are the roads with bus lanes in the middle, but they don't work perfectly with the way the game calculates lanes and how they turn at junctions, so it would only work if the modder added the bus lanes as a separate sort of lane segment the way tram tracks are separate and monorail tracks are separate (but still in the same prefab) But then i think it's just superfluous because you may as well use trams or monorail for that sort of set up. I think more worthwhile configurations would be 1 way versions with 1 lane car and 1 lane bus, or small two way roads with 2 inner lanes as cars and the two outer lanes as trams. or even better "mapped" asymmetric roads that have their lanes line up properly. or more avenue options with bus lanes and bike lanes incorporated. or tram and bike or whatever. Or tram/bus lanes + bike.  

[wasmic 111]

Well, Colossal Order has confirmed that they're looking into making a road editor for the game. Nothing more, nothing less. This might mean a tool in the asset editor, or it could mean an actual in-game road customization tool. If it's an in-game road customization tool, both NExt and the Extra Roads for NExt mods will probably become unneeded at some point.

That said, I think the new add-on for NExt actually has some quite novel and useful ideas. For example, I find myself using the one-way road with bike lanes and parking quite a lot. The bus avenues need TM:PE and a bit of work in order to work properly, but it's doable. I'm not sure if the 4-lane roads with split lanes are useful, but they look pretty. And the additional 3-lane one-way roads (with parking, bus lane or bike lane) are also quite useful.

All in all, I'd say that the new mod has some solid additions, although they are a bit unpolished and there are a few bugs present.

[Bad Peanut 826]

50 minutes ago, wasmic said:

Well, Colossal Order has confirmed that they're looking into making a road editor for the game. Nothing more, nothing less. This might mean a tool in the asset editor, or it could mean an actual in-game road customization tool. If it's an in-game road customization tool, both NExt and the Extra Roads for NExt mods will probably become unneeded at some point.

That said, I think the new add-on for NExt actually has some quite novel and useful ideas. For example, I find myself using the one-way road with bike lanes and parking quite a lot. The bus avenues need TM:PE and a bit of work in order to work properly, but it's doable. I'm not sure if the 4-lane roads with split lanes are useful, but they look pretty. And the additional 3-lane one-way roads (with parking, bus lane or bike lane) are also quite useful.

All in all, I'd say that the new mod has some solid additions, although they are a bit unpolished and there are a few bugs present.

i agree with what you say about the mods, but I'm sceptical about your hope with the road editor - I don't think they confirmed they were making it but they were looking into it's feasibility (that's what i remember from that Q&A on reddit) as for its scope, I doubt it would be an ingame editor (although that would be cool!) I guess it would be more an asset editor styled thing where you import a mesh model and textures and be able to work out the lanes'/footpaths positions and then package it into a prefab (that way it's packaged for the workshop) and it could maybe auto generate the bridge/elevated/tunnel/slope meshes (as generic models beneath the custom imported one)

[Avanya 2,605]

Quote

Mixed zoning I'm afraid will not happen. Currently we are investigating making a road modding tool (very early state). Would love to hear your feedback on that!

-Source

Bad Peanut is right, nothing is really confirmed other than they're looking into it and interested in feedback. "Modding tool" sounds more like an editor or adding it to the asset editor. I'd just love the option in game to swap between space for parking, a bike lane or a bus lane. But that's prob too complicated to do. Will be interesting to see what they come up with. But I guess it'll be easier if roads could be made and added like assets, so no mod would be needed to use them. Less stuff that might break is nice.

[andreharv 1,197]

On 6/29/2017 at 9:05 AM, Bad Peanut said:

I hope Andreharv incorporates it when he's back

Yeah he needs to get his stuff together.  I'm getting sick...Anyway, I released a tiny update addressing the asymmetrical direction switching bug.  AFAIK that is what one of these new updates addressed.  As for the additional roads, I haven't decided which/if I am going to incorporate.

[jumonjii 19]

If they make a road editor, it would be nice if it was click and select for each lane... and it shows the maximum lanes for each type of road.

Also would be nice if you could allow traffic to cross across the center to get to something on the other side. That's the only frustrating thing about NExt roads I don't like.
 

[alborzka 66]

2 hours ago, jumonjii said:

Also would be nice if you could allow traffic to cross across the center to get to something on the other side.

Omg that is so annoying!!! I hate that they have to go all the way around the road for something when it's right there ugh

[jumonjii 19]

28 minutes ago, alborzka said:

Omg that is so annoying!!! I hate that they have to go all the way around the road for something when it's right there ugh

I thought maybe I was the only one.

I have resorted to making short "dead end" segments next to buildings at different intervals so they can turn around.

[andreharv 1,197]

Hmm which roads are you referring to specifically?  Some support this and some don't.

[Bad Peanut 826]

15 hours ago, andreharv said:

Yeah he needs to get his stuff together.  I'm getting sick...Anyway, I released a tiny update addressing the asymmetrical direction switching bug.  AFAIK that is what one of these new updates addressed.  As for the additional roads, I haven't decided which/if I am going to incorporate.

I would rather see what you were originally intending on making (your ideas usually turn out pretty good) - better time is spent on that than trying to make someone else's work with yours, the onus should be on that guy to make his mod compatible with yours

[schokoladeneis 1 193]

One thing I can say is that I use his newly added small and wide streets with bike paths a lot. It would be nice if you, andreharv, decide to add roads like this.

Another bug I have with his streets is that it's sometimes impossible to change the road direction if road anarchy is activated. Instead it creates another weirdly twisted road on top of the other.

The missing of the icons is not a big problemfor me.

[alborzka 66]

9 hours ago, andreharv said:

Hmm which roads are you referring to specifically?  Some support this and some don't.

I've seen this behaviour with 2 lanes Road with turning lane (which is what I thought the turning lane would support lol, since it does so in the 4 lane version of it), as well as 4 lanes Road (but since it doesn't have a turning lane I guess it's not supposed to support it?).

[Bad Peanut 826]

1 minute ago, alborzka said:

I've seen this behaviour with 2 lanes Road with turning lane (which is what I thought the turning lane would support lol, since it does so in the 4 lane version of it), as well as 4 lanes Road (but since it doesn't have a turning lane I guess it's not supposed to support it?).

Turning lane isn't for traffic to pull into to turn across traffic to get to a business (mid segment) it's to allow traffic to pull into coming up to a junction if they're turning across traffic into another road

[alborzka 66]

8 hours ago, Bad Peanut said:

I would rather see what you were originally intending on making (your ideas usually turn out pretty good) - better time is spent on that than trying to make someone else's work with yours, the onus should be on that guy to make his mod compatible with yours

Continuing on that note, I'd really like to see your "More Tram Road Options" mod (or transit roads mod) come out -- I think if we want more regular non-transit road types we can have that covered by blaremc or others.

Also, one-way bicycle paths are badly needed, so we can use Anarchy/MoveIt to make our own bicycle roads on any road type we choose.

[alborzka 66]

4 minutes ago, Bad Peanut said:

Turning lane isn't for traffic to pull into to turn across traffic to get to a business (mid segment) it's to allow traffic to pull into coming up to a junction if they're turning across traffic into another road

Idk I've seen that behaviour in the 4 lanes with turning lane road, where trucks will use the turning lane to get to the business on the other side. I think it makes sense personally (within reason, i.e. not right at an intersection lol).

[jumonjii 19]

5 hours ago, alborzka said:

Idk I've seen that behaviour in the 4 lanes with turning lane road, where trucks will use the turning lane to get to the business on the other side. I think it makes sense personally (within reason, i.e. not right at an intersection lol).

Agreed. This is how they are are in real life. The small road with turn lane should work the same way. The other bug I've noticed is that the center turn lane also goes straight (at intersections) if you check it with TM:PE.

The small 2 lane (2 lanes both directions) roads should allow traffic to cross across the center imo.

[jumonjii 19]

One way bike lanes would be cool, however, a walking path with bike lane(s) on the side would be nice too.

[wasmic 111]

4 hours ago, jumonjii said:

One way bike lanes would be cool, however, a walking path with bike lane(s) on the side would be nice too.

Except for aesthetics, that's just a standard path. It allows both pedestrians and bicycles. 

[jumonjii 19]

True. Aesthetics would make it look nicer.

[alborzka 66]

Was just thinking of something. Tbh, I think more bus roads are kind of useless -- you can make dedicated bus lanes with TM:PE for roads that don't come with them already, and if you have enough room for NEXT2 then you should have enough room for TM:PE (for most people, anyway). If you want different colours, then you can add them with decals etc. And we can now designate parking with TM:PE as well (for roads that offer parking in the first place, that is). Personally, I think future roads should focus on features we can't mod/add ourselves -- tram and bike, for example, are lanes we can't just designate ourselves with TM:PE. Even using Move It and plopping them onto an existing road is messy, and the intersections won't work properly anyway rendering them useless.

[Turjan 1,048]

7 hours ago, alborzka said:

Tbh, I think more bus roads are kind of useless -- you can make dedicated bus lanes with TM:PE for roads that don't come with them already, and if you have enough room for NEXT2 then you should have enough room for TM:PE (for most people, anyway).

That's unfortunately not true for everyone, as your "for most people" already implies. NEXT2 mostly targets RAM space, TM:PE drains processor power. I can use NEXT2 without problems, but TM:PE more or less kills my game. And I would love to use TM:PE, if only to have some higher speed tram tracks. However, I can see that it's necessary for modders to set priorities.