NAM: Development

[Tropod 144]

not sure I follow? Could you elaborate a bit more? specifics etc

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

You got it.



On the right, you can see my attempt to place the road onslope piece to create the junction I want. Attempting to rotate the piece only flips it from one side of the road to the other, not at all the location where I want the piece. On the left, you can see the avenue version.

(Also in the avenue version, note the discoloration of the farther onslope piece. Can that be fixed?)

[Tropod 144]

Right. Obviously since the network underneath is onewayroad, you can't build T-Road Onslope on it. The T-Avenue Onslope actually contains onewayroad as part of the item. I guess the changes smoncrie suggested could be done, but I hadn't really had the chance to take a good look at it. Hence they were left as is.

One thing to keep in mind though; All PuzzlePiece items are technically Interchange-Base Items. Which means they are often restricted in the same way. The OneWayRoad items in the game are probably the most complex of items to deal with, except for maybe bridges as far as networks go, because of how they work. This is especially more so if they're an Interchange-Base Item (drove me crazy trying to make those onewayroad ramps in the first place).

 

EDIT: that discolouration is a little unusual.

 

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Alright, I was able to do it using road (not oneway) parallel ramps. It just looks a bit odd with the yellow lines out of nowhere (and allows some odd behavior in UDI as well. Odd from a realism standpoint; expected, given the construction of it in the game.)

[smoncrie 43]

The discoloration of the OnSlope pieces changes with the rotation angle.  I suspect that it is caused by the game trying to put shadows on the OnSlope models.  (If you plop an OnSlope piece on level ground the road sticks up at a steep angle, so it makes sense that it would be shadowed for some angles)   It is not something I have been able to fix.

 

Edit: It just occurred to me that one might be able to use counter-shaded models and Resource Key Type 2.  I will have to think about it.

You can use the one-way ramps with the

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Date: 7/24/2005 5:48:29 PM
Author: smoncrie

You can use the one-way ramps with the

[prince_of_sims 0]

tropod, i ran into a problem with smoncrie's suggestion: UDI doesn't work properly. i don't know if that'll affect the pathing or not, but u might want to check into that

[Tropod 144]

If folk want to discuss issues such as this that's fine, but any changes users make such as this typically won't be publicly supported (unless they find their way into a NAM version).

 

As I said in my previous posts; I hadn't had the chance to take a thorough look at smoncrie's suggestion, hence it was left as is. But as you've pointed out, UDI does not work. If this is truly the case, then it'd be useless as UDI depends on the Paths.

 

[prince_of_sims 0]

sorry tropod.... i was just trying to save you the time of trying.....

EDIT:

toxicpiano,

that would render those tiles next to the ground highway useless.... that means, extremely hard to lay down on-ramps and off-ramps..... and i think it's only props that can be made to overhang.... transit-enabled tiles and paths cannot....

[GoaSkin 2]

I think double-decker highways are only existing in USA und Japan.

[+Guest]

Is there a List of all the features that come with NAM?.Thanx

[Andreas Roth 607]

Date: 7/25/2005 9:27:55 AM Author: BlackBeard Is there a List of all the features that come with NAM?.Thanx

quote>

Check the HistoryFile.htm that comes with the NAM - nearly everything should be covered there.

[Glenni 1,444]

Date: 7/25/2005 9:11:19 AM Author: GoaSkin I think double-decker highways are only existing in USA und Japan.

quote>

 

well actually in thailand too but i see your point...i aint really so crazy about it.

[gmavignier 3]

Oh man! That suggestion is awesome on the double layer hwy! I don't know anything about development but that's great if it works!

Good job man!

[pepsi38 46]

hey, nice idea with the dubble highway.....to bad we cant change bridges and such or else if the dubble was posible, we could have a bridge like the GWB in NYC!!!!!!!!!......if only

 

i have a quick question.  i have kept up to date with NAM till lately and now i cant remember were to get the new additions like the ave. turning and such....if thats even released...if there is a newer one that maybe came out in the past month and a half, can anyone give me a link to it?

[Andreas Roth 607]

The current NAM version is available in the Modding Section or on my personal homepage: http://www.newspringfield.de/glr_mod/NetworkAddonMod_Beta_072505.zip

[Bee21 2]

//I think double-decker highways are only existing in USA und Japan.//

I know of places in even Scotland that have dd highways.

[Keiran Halcyon 0]

Date: 7/25/2005 2:33:03 PM Author: toxicpiano

Date: 7/25/2005 2:24:13 PM Author: toxicpiano

Date: 7/25/2005 9:50:45 AM Author: toxicpiano

Date: 7/25/2005 5:40:05 AM Author: toxicpiano

Not sure if you've ever had an idea, or if it's possible but here goes...

some people have, like me wanted double decker highways. so i thought about it and came up with an idea. instead of making a whole new thing, couldn't you offset a elevated highway so it goes over a ground highway? like this

(image trimmed for reply - KH)

would it work? is it possible? could you even juct use transport enabled lots to do this? you could make new puzzle pieces or something.

so is my suggestion possible?

quote>

Can somebody answer my question please?

quote>

an answer please...

quote>

Notice how none of the people you'd be seeking an answer from (Tropod, smoncrie, etc.) have posted, whether to you or anyone else, since you first posted the image? Try giving them a day, not ten minutes.

[jondecker 0]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it can happen.  You just need to wait for the powers that be(those who have the power to create such a thing) to log in and see this idea to get an answer.  There is no need for you to quote yourself so much on the same page or even within 20 minutes of each other, it eats up our precious bandwidth.  I think it would be an awesome idea to have DD highways in the game.

[Tropod 144]

Folks please, keep this thread on topic thanks, it's not a general discussion thread. The NAM General Discussion thread & NAM Request Thread exist for a reason. If you are not contributing to actual works or discussion of actual works (in progress) or conceptal ideas to help with actual works, then please refrain from posting in this thread thanks, otherwise posts may be deleted.

 

 

toxicpiano;

Your duplicate posts will be removed. In future, please don't post successively like you have, there's no need for it.

As to your idea; for Interchange-Base Items it is technically impossible to do what you're suggesting because of how they work. This aside though, I really don't see the point in placing something one tile over like depicted in the image. Double-Deckered *Networks* are quite possible though. One of the main issues is getting enough *proper* models done to make it feasible, regardless of how they'd be implemented. I would suggest taking a good look through this thread & the NAM General Discussion thread, there is/was a picture somewhere showing double-decker OneWayRoads (which are/were not complete). I will point out though; for something like double-decker highways, the upper & lower portion would most likely have to be going in opposite directions because of some failings with how the pathing system works.

 

 

prince_of_sims

That's ok. I don't mind at all if users toy around with settings, goodness knows I've missed the odd thing here & there . I just thought I'd point out what I had.

 

 

 

Texture/Models Wealth etc File Formats;

Just regarding recent discoveries with Texture/Model formats;

I would think at this point in time, that anything NAM orientated that is an Interchange-Base Item &/or Junction/Intersection/Network/etc that involves a Model file; the best thing to do would be to make the item as per normal. That is, do not include Wealth dependant textures. I think at this point in time, the best thing to do would be to create a seperate modd that deals with Models & wealths of these items, dealing with the Maxis original items as well. All we have to do is think up of a name for such a modd.

 

[Swamper77 90]

Date: 7/26/2005 1:20:49 AM Author: Tropod

Texture/Models Wealth etc File Formats;

Just regarding recent discoveries with Texture/Model formats;

I would think at this point in time, that anything NAM orientated that is an Interchange-Base Item &/or Junction/Intersection/Network/etc that involves a Model file; the best thing to do would be to make the item as per normal. That is, do not include Wealth dependant textures. I think at this point in time, the best thing to do would be to create a seperate modd that deals with Models & wealths of these items, dealing with the Maxis original items as well. All we have to do is think up of a name for such a modd.

How about Total Cosmetic Mod ? I'm in the process of assembling my own cosmetic mod that alters the appearance of the Maxis network stuff. I have corrected versions of the Elevated Rail over Rail intersections done. I used the color-corrected railroad textures from the NAM to fix the brightening of the rail textures under the Elevated Rail at the intersections. I could take a look at fixing the rest of the intersections involving elevated networks with the railroad at ground level. The elevated rail/rail intersections were easier to fix because the Elevated Rail network uses one model for each zoom level.

I have been considering fixing the Elevated Rail intersections where it meets a texture based network so it would show sidewalks alongside the roadway underneath the intersection. Smoncrie suggested using a pair of props to place the sidewalk. I was hoping to be able to do it using the various textures the game already has. I'm unsure of how to get it to work though....

-Swamper77

[newyorkrunaway1 110]

wow, this would be really cool, good luck with it, i know its a lot of work!!!

[Dr. Neitchskrimfrauwnmoya 7]

Date: 7/25/2005 9:42:07 AM Author: Andreas Roth

Date: 7/25/2005 9:27:55 AM Author: BlackBeard Is there a List of all the features that come with NAM?.Thanx

Check the 'HistoryFile.htm' that comes with the NAM - nearly everything should be covered there.

At every new NAM releases, the first thing I do is to check the history file to see all the new things that can be done.

However, since the 2 last updates, I was puzzled by a couple of things in the history file :

Over 50+ new intersections, junction &/or network possibility types added. These are many & varied but encompass most of the above ground networks. If in doubt, please experiment.

Several new path, drawing &/or graphical bug fixes added. These fixes relate to original Maxis items & also custom content items.

Numerous visual improvements made to various existing items.


I was expecting a complete, or at least less general, description of the changes. I understand completly that it may takes a long time to list ALL the minor changes, like for the drawing and graphical bug fixes. So maybe just giving some examples of what was fixed, or better, a couple of pictures showing the changes and it would be a lot better this way.

However I consider that having the possibily to build completly new types of intersections isn't a minor change in the game, thus requiring a much more extensive list of what was changed.

Because I don't see the point of going through all the trouble to add all this great and wonderful new stuff for us when, at the end, nobody knows exactly what was added and these new possibilty don't get used because people don't know about it.

Yesterday, I downloaded the last NAM update (really good work BTW), and when I read about all these new intersections, I was quite anxious to see what they were. So I ran the game and started playing with the transportation tools, trying to discover some of these new intersections. After 45 min- 1hour, I've only discovered like 10 or so new intersections. I was discouraged knowing that there was a lot of other cool stuff I would never know about. So I quited and ran across this, posted by Tropod in the NAM General discussion thread

Author: Tropod
The folowing are just some of the new (undocumented) intersections, junctions, &/or network possibility types;
The existing normal network tools are used for these, where applicable.
Junction has same meaning as Intersection.
Orthogonal = Straight (or follows the grid)

-Avenue diagonal one tile shift
-Avenue short curve
-AvenueYJunction 2Orthongal x 1Diagonal
-AvenueYJunction 2Diagonal x 1Orthogonal
-Avenue 3Orthogonal x 1Diagonal +Junction. Diagonal Shifted
-Avenue 3Orthogonal x 1Diagonal +Junction. Diagonal Non-Shifted
-ElevatedRail diagonal, Avenue T Intersection (not all possibilities are covered)
-ElevatedRail diagonal, Avenue + Intersection (not all possibilities are covered)
-Avenue diagonal, Road Orthogonal one side (i.e. not completely through)
-Avenue diagonal, OneWayRoad Orthogonal one side (i.e. not completely through)

-Avenue diagonal, Street Orthogonal completely through
-Street orthogonal into avenue corner
-Street +Junction into/on Avenue corner
-Road orthogonal into avenue corner
-Road +Junction into/on Avenue corner
-OneWayRoad orthogonal into avenue corner
-OneWayRoad +Junction into/on Avenue corner

-Avenue transition into Orthogonal OneWayRoad
-Avenue orthogonal dead ending into Road diagonal
-Avenue diagonal dead ending into Road orthogonal
-Diagonal road x Orthogonal OneWayRoad
-Double Diagonal Rail x Diagonal Road
-Double Diagonal Rail x Diagonal OneWayRoad
-Double Diagnonal Rail x Straight Street
-Double Diagonal Road x Straight Rail
-Double Diagonal Road x Diagonal Rail
-Double Diagonal Road x Double Diagonal Rail
-Double Diagonal OneWayRoad x Straight Rail
-Double Diagonal OneWayRoad x Diagonal Rail
-Double Diagonal OneWayRoad x Double Diagonal Rail
-Diagonal Avenue Dead Ending into Street Corner (street corner needs to exist first)
-Diagonal Avenue Dead Ending into Road Corner
-Diagonal Avenue with curved end into OneWayRoad orthogonal transition
-Diagonal Avenue with curved end into OneWayRoad diagonal transition
-Diagonal Avenue into OneWayRoad Orthogonal/Orthogonal Forked Transition
-Diagonal Avenue into OneWayRoad Orthogonal/Diagonal Forked Transition
-Diagonal Avenue x Double Diagonal Rail
-Avenue curve with OneWayRoad Orthogonal Offsplit
-Avenue curve with OneWayRoad Diagonal Offsplit

-Avenue curve with OneWayRoad Orthogonal/Diagonal Offsplit
-Diagonal Road, Street + Junction
-And possibly more.
If in doubt, please experiment.

So I quickly printed the list and reopened the game and tried them all, and realised that without that precious list, there are no ways I've could have discovere more than half of the new intersections. I know that the more you play the more you'll find out randomly some new intersections but it's so much less trouble to know from the start, so that you can plan to use all this new stuff.

Why on Earth this list wasn't put in the official NAM documentation? It was so helpful to me, without it I wouldn't have been able to enjoy the new NAM, I would have missed so much new features! I'm sure plenty of other people will use this new version of the NAM without knowing half of the new potential it has in it.

So, well, in short, my suggestion is to put a  much more detailled list of the changes.

And does anybody know the difference between a Diagonal Avenue with curved end into OneWayRoad orthogonal transition and a Diagonal Avenue into OneWayRoad Orthogonal/Orthogonal Forked Transition, I've figured out all the other intersections except for those.

This bring me to my second, but final , point. Instead of trying to figure out what the description means, wouldn't be a lot lot much more easier for the users to put small pictures showing the new possibilities? Or at least why not just putting links to posts in the forum into the documentation?

I know that you're all busy, working hard on the NAM for us and for free (and I can't express I much I'm thankful for this), so maybe it'll be too long to write a detailled listing (and I have to admit I prefer that you spent your time creating new NAM features instead of writing a boring Readme) so if there is anything I could do for this, I'm offering my help. I have absolutly (sp?) no knowledge on modding, but I can write a read-me at least

[Andreas Roth 607]

Well, while it may be great to have a history file that is as complete as possible, listing all those intersection would be a bit over the top. Most of them are only minor additions and/or improvements of the existing ones (including the ones made by Maxis), so if you really want to have a complete list, you would have to include the in-game stuff as well. And if you even want to have pictures from all of them, this could easily become a fulltime job. (Oh, and not to forget the additional work for me, translating the readme file into German... )

[+Guest]

2005-05-2712:17:35 EDT (?)Andreas Roth

The current NAM version is available in the Modding Section or on my personal homepage: http://www.newspringfield.de/glr_mod/NetworkAddonMod_Beta_072505.zip

quote>

I'd just like to tell everybody (in a place where it's less likely to be covered up by other posts) that I've mirrored the file myself. It's available in three different formats at my own webspace . There's a detailed explanation in either the general discussion thread or at SCC's NAM info thread.

Cheers!

[frimi2 0]

Date: 7/26/2005 11:31:38 PM Author: Andreas Roth Well, while it may be great to have a history file that is as complete as possible, listing all those intersection would be a bit over the top. Most of them are only minor additions and/or improvements of the existing ones (including the ones made by Maxis), so if you really want to have a complete list, you would have to include the in-game stuff as well. And if you even want to have pictures from all of them, this could easily become a fulltime job. (Oh, and not to forget the additional work for me, translating the readme file into German... )

quote>

.... and don't forget the fun to explore the new functions. Wat brings me a complete description? Nothing ! Your mother stopped feeding you at the age of 3 , because you tried to find it out by yourself. Why we shall do it now ?

[Tropod 144]

Dr. Neitchskrimfrauwnmoya

Thank you for your thorough feedback. This is much appreciated. Your post is fully understandable & certainly raises a valid point.

When Maxis released the game, I don't recall every intersection possibility & type documented in booklet provided . We were basically left to our own devices to figure it all out for ourselves, what was & was not possible. And that is (suppose to be) part of the fun of playing the game; to explore.

The majority of items contained in the NAM are well documented, though admittedly some parts maybe lacking. Quite often I am two-minds whether to include additional information regarding something that may of been added/fixed/adjusted/etc. Nowdays unless it is something serious or warranted, I don't necessarily bother with specifics of an item that may of been fixed or adjusted (such as path/texture improvements). While I do think it is a good idea to include every itty-bitty detail, the History file is something I've tried to keep as concise as possible, where possible &/or practical within reason. A new section & list in the CONTENTS file may be a good idea, to cover the variety of new intersections &/or network possibility types added. I will point out though, that the CONTENTS does actually contain specific links to threads on the forums here. Granted the information may not be upto date. Including images of any kind with the NAM though is out of the question, it'll add more files, folders & the file size of the mod quite considerably. I have considered doing/releasing a side-project Modd, kind of like the Networks: Custom Content: How To's & Sample Pics  thread instead as a downloadable package, but I think this sort of thing is better served in a specific thread such as this (as others can post their 'how to's').

If you would really like to help contribute ; take a look at the Networks: Custom Content: How To's & Sample Pics  thread. And feel free to post some 'how to's' of the newer intersections (even if it is just showing them in a blank area with nothing around them), being sure to follow a similar posting format to existing posts in the thread.

As for those two avenue<>onewayroad transitions;

-Diagonal Avenue with curved end into OneWayRoad orthogonal transition

The diagonal avenue transitions into orthogonal onewayroad on *one* side of the diagonal avenue only.

 

-Diagonal Avenue into OneWayRoad Orthogonal/Orthogonal Forked Transition

The diagonal avenue transitions into orthogonal onewayroad on *both* sides of the diagonal avenue, hence the 'forked' transition. So there'll effectively be onewayroad going into one side of the avenue, & another onewayroad comming out of the avenue.

 

Once again, thanks for the feedback. I'll be sure to keep this in mind.

 

[fishstix001 0]

moved post-

[frimi2 0]

Date: 7/27/2005 3:02:06 PM Author: fishstix001

I downloaded the newest nam and I only saw one new piece

as well as no turning lanes on a 4 way stop on an avenue

whats up with this?

quote>

You haven't red the documentation page two: 2.Installation Instructions

[fishstix001 0]

Date: 7/27/2005 3:14:24 PM Author: frimi2

Date: 7/27/2005 3:02:06 PM Author: fishstix001

I downloaded the newest nam and I only saw one new piece

as well as no turning lanes on a 4 way stop on an avenue

whats up with this?

quote>

You haven't red the documentation page two: 2.Installation Instructions

quote>

I did that