Of Pollution and Mathematics

[General Lee 9]

All right. So I have the Prima guide, and I have a mathematical question regarding pollution control. Now, a little background is this. I have started a city, and the first form of Mass Transit I created was Bus Stops. While these are cheap and only take up a 1x1 space, that still takes its toll wherever you plop them because it always makes the two additional spaces behind them unusable (especially in the residential areas where the "No Road Access" icon will pop up). Now, this isn't a big deal to me, because I'll simply use this empty space to create parks as a form of pollution control.

 

Now, here's where it gets tricky. According to the Prima guide, the Ranger Station negates 3 units of pollution. The ranger station also takes up 2x1 spaces. The Small Flower Garden and the Community Gardens only negate 2 units of pollution, but they also only take up 1x1 spaces respectively. With that being said, if I placed two Small Flower Gardens or Community Gardens in the same spaces I would have placed one Ranger Station, would that be more efficient? Because the two Small Flower Gardens or Community Gardens combined would (if I'm doing the math right) equal the effect of 4 units of pollution being negated. Whereas if I were to plop down just a Ranger Station, that would be -3 pollution in its entirety. Am I correct?

 

Also, if anyone has any additional tips on pollution control in general, feel free to add them.

[ADYX 1]

the "downside" of having the ranger station is that (if i dont remember wrong) it gives more desirability effects on the surrounding building (even though it fights less pollution) 

 

to fight pollution you can either:

-curse (useless)

-paint trees in god mode saving the boredom of planting them one by one and waiting for their growth (works to only some extent and you should watch out for desirability variations, since areas will look rly desirable at first developing $$$ types which will abbandon shortly after due to Desirability lvls raising and getting back to normal)

-using nam to make more sims go for subway or creating secluded areas for R (mostly R$$$) types, since C types either dont bother with pollution or "like" customer effect so much that pollution, due to vehicles, rarely affects their desirability

 

edited for better comprehention

[General Lee 9]

I legitimately couldn't make out a word you just wrote. I'd start here and work your way from there:  http://www.learnenglish.de/grammarpage.html

Not trying to be mean or a "Grammar Nazi" or anything like that, but when I can't even make out the gist of your sentences.......that's pretty darn bad. 

[blunder 1,079]

There's actually 2 variables when it comes to pollution: there's the amount of pollution given off in each of 4 categories, and there's the area that pollution is spread over.  You can see both of these if you open the lots in ilive's Reader, but otherwise very little content tells you what area pollution is spread over, which makes calculating it out before hand annoying.  I would advise that you're better off not worrying about the x's and o's but rather playing it by feel and being proactive about placing pollution reducing lots.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I legitimately couldn't make out a word you just wrote. I'd start here and work your way from there:  http://www.learnenglish.de/grammarpage.html

Not trying to be mean or a "Grammar Nazi" or anything like that, but when I can't even make out the gist of your sentences.......that's pretty darn bad. 

 

Sorry, but it's your own reading comprehension which is at fault here...

 

Anyway, I don't know exactly when and how the prima guide is wrong, but it's wrong, and you can't reliably use it. If you'd like to know what all the maxis stuff is, you can download "SC4Tool" (I don't have the link on hand but you can google it), which has a database of all the maxis stuff in game and all the properties. Or you can google for something similar but if the stats are copied from the prima guide they might be wrong.

 

My advice for reducing pollution is to find a good park lot. Park lots already reduce pollution. But if the park lot is "empty" on top, you can plant trees on top of it (like ADYX said, using god mode trees is easier), so you're doubling up on pollution reduction, since trees by themselves also reduce pollution. Some parks have "stuff" on them already which prevents more trees from being planted on them. The generic grass park is good for this but I haven't look up the stats to see what is optimal.

 

I also have some pollution reduction lots on the stex. imo I've set the costs to be high enough that they're not just cheater lots.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

You can do what I did in 2006.  Pick up a sledge hammer and swat that gnat.

 

+

[jmsepe 2,038]

Pollution can take into two sides: water and air. 

 

Water pollution is easy to clean up for you only need to put water treatment plants and TADA! the effects can be seen.

 

The tricky part is for the air pollution, I'm sorry if I don't follow any mathematics here (although I am a Mathematics major student). Plopping parks alone will definitely not get rid of air pollution especially those in congested areas. I suggest you use this (), although this is pretty much very unrealistic, I believe that I value clean air more than realism. It cannot erase air pollution created by traffic in roads though. 

 

Hope it helps.

[z1 566]

Anyway, I don't know exactly when and how the prima guide is wrong, but it's wrong, and you can't reliably use it.

 

As someone who regularly uses both the Prima Guide and the source from which its information comes (primarily the in-game exemplars), I can say that yes, there are definitely errors in the Guide, but they're relatively few and tend to be minor.  For someone who is familiar with the game, they're easy to recognize when you see them.  I would estimate that the Prima Guide is at least 98% accurate, and I have never found any errors in the tables or charts, which are easy to check against the exemplars.  And especially considering that there's now a free download version*, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Guide to anyone - novice or expert.

 

*EDIT:  The download version is unfortunately no longer free.  However, you can get a used paperback version in Acceptable condition on Amazon for a dime, and for a mere 14 cents more, you can get one in Good condition.  Both tack on $3.99 for shipping, though.  Or, for the first time in a decade, you can get a new version at the original cover price (shipping included).  (There appears to be only one new copy at this price.)

 

It cannot erase air pollution created by traffic in roads though.

 

If you have the NAM, enabling the Clean Air Act reduces air pollution caused by road traffic by 60%.  You can adjust this figure in the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool.

[General Lee 9]

Anyway, I don't know exactly when and how the prima guide is wrong, but it's wrong, and you can't reliably use it. If you'd like to know what all the maxis stuff is, you can download "SC4Tool" (I don't have the link on hand but you can google it), which has a database of all the maxis stuff in game and all the properties. Or you can google for something similar but if the stats are copied from the prima guide they might be wrong.

 

My advice for reducing pollution is to find a good park lot. Park lots already reduce pollution. But if the park lot is "empty" on top, you can plant trees on top of it (like ADYX said, using god mode trees is easier), so you're doubling up on pollution reduction, since trees by themselves also reduce pollution. Some parks have "stuff" on them already which prevents more trees from being planted on them. The generic grass park is good for this but I haven't look up the stats to see what is optimal.

 

I also have some pollution reduction lots on the stex. imo I've set the costs to be high enough that they're not just cheater lots.

 

 

 

Not exactly. The Prima guide for SimCity 4 was written in collaboration with developers at Maxis. They actually say so right in the guide. Sure, are there mistakes? Yes (for example, avenues aren't listed in the roads section). Are the park pollution negation values wrong? No, those are accurate.

 

Now, I did notice how you technically addressed two topics with one post. Your idea to put trees on parks is a good one, but it also answers my question about two Small Flower Gardens vs. on Ranger Station (in which yes that would be more efficient). As far as using God Mode to seed the trees in the parks, I probably won't because I don't really care for cheating. Besides, I get to pick what trees I plant in Mayor Mode.

 

One more question. If I put trees in my industrial area, will that hinder development? Seeing as how it is probably more expensive to build in an area that has a bunch of trees vs. one without trees, I could see that being a hindrance. Could you verify this? Thank you.

 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I don't think it cares whether or not there are trees. Once it's developed and the trees are gone, desirability might go down, causing the building to dilapidate. But once it's developed you can plant new trees on the lot.

[blunder 1,079]

 

As far as using God Mode to seed the trees in the parks, I probably won't because I don't really care for cheating. Besides, I get to pick what trees I plant in Mayor Mode.

 

 

Cheating?  That's a mindset that will change over time.  Before long you will have done everything you can within the confines of the simulation, and it will just become a hindrance to you building the city that you want. 

 

And really that's setting a very, very weak definition of cheating.  It's not like the developers when to great pains to hide how to get into the god mode tools after you start a city.

[z1 566]

Sure, are there mistakes? Yes (for example, avenues aren't listed in the roads section).

 

That actually isn't even one of the mistakes.  Avenues, one-way roads, and highways are in the Rush Hour section of the book; the guide was explicitly divided into an "original game" section and a "Rush Hour" section.  Presumably, this was to keep people who had only the original game from getting confused.

 

 

One more question. If I put trees in my industrial area, will that hinder development? Seeing as how it is probably more expensive to build in an area that has a bunch of trees vs. one without trees, I could see that being a hindrance. Could you verify this? Thank you.

 

The game doesn't take into account the cost of cutting down trees.  Instead, trees increase desirability and also give a temporary aura boost.  They help any development.  If you want a small building to develop into a larger one, squirt a bunch of trees all around.  Or plop any civic structure or transit station.

[General Lee 9]

 

Sure, are there mistakes? Yes (for example, avenues aren't listed in the roads section).

 

That actually isn't even one of the mistakes.  Avenues, one-way roads, and highways are in the Rush Hour section of the book; the guide was explicitly divided into an "original game" section and a "Rush Hour" section.  Presumably, this was to keep people who had only the original game from getting confused.

 

 

One more question. If I put trees in my industrial area, will that hinder development? Seeing as how it is probably more expensive to build in an area that has a bunch of trees vs. one without trees, I could see that being a hindrance. Could you verify this? Thank you.

 

The game doesn't take into account the cost of cutting down trees.  Instead, trees increase desirability and also give a temporary aura boost.  They help any development.  If you want a small building to develop into a larger one, squirt a bunch of trees all around.  Or plop any civic structure or transit station.

 

 

Thanks for the info. I was worried my small industries would never grow larger because I flooded the empty zoning space with a ton of trees. Though the Air Purification Mod looks tempting. I don't really mod a lot of my games, so if modding is easy, maybe I'll take a look. That and if I win the argument with myself that modding is actually not cheating

[z1 566]

Though the Air Purification Mod looks tempting.

 

It's a very nice one - I use it in all my cities.  There's also a smaller industrial version that looks good in industrial areas.  Both cover limited areas, so you get to choose how many you want to use.  Do you want to clean up just the worst pollution?  Or do you want your city pollution free?  It's up to you.

 

I don't really mod a lot of my games, so if modding is easy, maybe I'll take a look.

 

It's very easy.  You just download the file, extract it into your Plugins folder, and start the game.

 

That and if I win the argument with myself that modding is actually not cheating

 

If you were in a competition with others, then such a mod would be cheating.  But you're not, so it's just a question of how much time you want to spend fighting pollution issues, and how much time you want to spend on the rest of the game.  Again, up to you.

 

Are you cheating yourself if you enjoy the game more?  Personally, I don't think so.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If you think clearly you'll realize you can't cheat in a single player game.  But you can use all the knowledge you collect.

[andix 33]

Can Mayor Mode trees reduce the pollution too (like God Mode trees)?

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

If they act as parks.  In general, yes.

[blunder 1,079]

Can Mayor Mode trees reduce the pollution too (like God Mode trees)?

 

Mine are all modded to reduce pollution by 1 over 5 tiles.  It might not seem like much but it adds up.

[nbvv 0]

)))))))) no

[andix 33]

If they act as parks.  In general, yes.

Thanks, but how can i know if they act as parks? At the moment i use girafe's trees and in the descriptions is nothing mentioned about that aspect.

 

Can Mayor Mode trees reduce the pollution too (like God Mode trees)?

 

Mine are all modded to reduce pollution by 1 over 5 tiles.  It might not seem like much but it adds up.

 

Ah O.K., it depends on the designer.

[z1 566]

The default trees all reduce pollution.

[andix 33]

The default trees all reduce pollution.

What are "default trees"? The maxis trees for sure, but are all MMP custom trees are default trees too?

[z1 566]

I was referring to the Maxis trees.  Generally, custom trees reduce pollution too, but I can't vouch for every single custom set out there.

[General Lee 9]

Anyway, I don't know exactly when and how the prima guide is wrong, but it's wrong, and you can't reliably use it.

As someone who regularly uses both the Prima Guide and the source from which its information comes (primarily the in-game exemplars), I can say that yes, there are definitely errors in the Guide, but they're relatively few and tend to be minor. For someone who is familiar with the game, they're easy to recognize when you see them. I would estimate that the Prima Guide is at least 98% accurate, and I have never found any errors in the tables or charts, which are easy to check against the exemplars. And especially considering that there's now a free download version*, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Guide to anyone - novice or expert.

*EDIT: The download version is unfortunately no longer free. However, you can get a used paperback version in Acceptable condition on Amazon for a dime, and for a mere 14 cents more, you can get one in Good condition. Both tack on $3.99 for shipping, though. Or, for the first time in a decade, you can get a new version at the original cover price (shipping included). (There appears to be only one new copy at this price.)

It cannot erase air pollution created by traffic in roads though.

If you have the NAM, enabling the Clean Air Act reduces air pollution caused by road traffic by 60%. You can adjust this figure in the Traffic Simulator Configuration Tool.

LOL @ all the "Cnet download/Amazon for $.14 stuff." Screw all that. Why don't you just get it where I got it:

Discussing Piracy on Simtropolis is not allowed. I have removed the part of the post with a link, as we could be liable for copyright damages for having torrent links on our site. I also merged your posts into one big one.

Can Mayor Mode trees reduce the pollution too (like God Mode trees)?

To answer your question properly, yes. To be specific, as far as the trees that actually came with SimCity 4 (the "default trees" as you guys are calling them), the Prima Guide shows the values are as follows:

-2 pollution for the small saplings, and up to -7 for full grown trees

And yes, the trees that came with the game (the "default trees") also reduce pollution caused by traffic as well as aircraft. And yes, all the trees are the same. A Palm Tree reduces just as much pollution as a Blue Spruce. Now, I don't know how well mod trees work (and it appears they aren't even programmed for things like car or aircraft pollution), but I wouldn't see the need for them. The SimCity 4 trees work great!

the "downside" of having the ranger station is that (if i dont remember wrong) it gives more desirability effects on the surrounding building (even though it fights less pollution)

to fight pollution you can either:

-curse (useless)

-paint trees in god mode saving the boredom of planting them one by one and waiting for their growth (works to only some extent and you should watch out for desirability variations, since areas will look rly desirable at first developing $$$ types which will abbandon shortly after due to Desirability lvls raising and getting back to normal)

-using nam to make more sims go for subway or creating secluded areas for R (mostly R$$$) types, since C types either dont bother with pollution or "like" customer effect so much that pollution, due to vehicles, rarely affects their desirability

edited for better comprehention

Actually, you are wrong in one of your points. The Ranger Station does NOT have any downsides. In fact, according to the Prima Guide, is has nothing but upsides. Not only does it reduce pollution by -3, but it adds a whole whopping 1,000 Demand Cap Relief! Not to mention, it also increases desirability. But again, the reason I ended up going with Small Flower Gardens was because two of them (combined) fight pollution to the effect of -4. So yeah, for two spaces, instead of one Ranger Station, I'd recommend two Small Flower Gardens.

As far as using God Mode to seed the trees in the parks, I probably won't because I don't really care for cheating. Besides, I get to pick what trees I plant in Mayor Mode.

Cheating? That's a mindset that will change over time. Before long you will have done everything you can within the confines of the simulation, and it will just become a hindrance to you building the city that you want.

And really that's setting a very, very weak definition of cheating. It's not like the developers when to great pains to hide how to get into the god mode tools after you start a city.

True enough, but it's not like they hid "weaknesspays" either. For me, part of the fun is the challenge. I mean after all, they wouldn't have put "Easy", "Medium", or "Hard" settings in the game if the definition of "having fun" was taking the easy way out.

  Edited February 15, 2014 by Xyloxadoria  
Removed Torrent Link

[z1 566]

LOL @ all the "Cnet download/Amazon for $.14 stuff." Screw all that. Why don't you just get it where I got it:

 

Because it's illegal.  Although promotion of illegally obtained textual copyrighted material is not specifically banned by the rules, that appears to be an oversight, as the promotion of illegally obtained software is banned in detail.  As these boards are all moderated, Simtropolis could be held liable if it permitted this sort of promotion.  Therefore, I expect that some corrective action will be taken here, and hopefully the rules will be clarified.

[APSMS 1,892]

^^^ This is true. I think most forum members are aware of the places to go if they really wanted to find pirated/copyrighted material for free. It's not rocket science.

 

The policy of this site, however, is to discuss legal alternatives/practices compared to their less...legal(?) siblings. Ironically these alternatives (at least, the free ones) are often much harder to find.

 

You can use the multi-quote feature to reduce the double posting, btw.

[General Lee 9]

 

LOL @ all the "Cnet download/Amazon for $.14 stuff." Screw all that. Why don't you just get it where I got it:

 

Because it's illegal.  Although promotion of illegally obtained textual copyrighted material is not specifically banned by the rules, that appears to be an oversight, as the promotion of illegally obtained software is banned in detail.  As these boards are all moderated, Simtropolis could be held liable if it permitted this sort of promotion.  Therefore, I expect that some corrective action will be taken here, and hopefully the rules will be clarified.

 

 

Oops. Sorry. I didn't mean to cause any trouble.

 

^^^ This is true. I think most forum members are aware of the places to go if they really wanted to find pirated/copyrighted material for free. It's not rocket science.

 

The policy of this site, however, is to discuss legal alternatives/practices compared to their less...legal(?) siblings. Ironically these alternatives (at least, the free ones) are often much harder to find.

 

You can use the multi-quote feature to reduce the double posting, btw.

 

Yeah, I know about multiquote. I don't like doing anything overly complicated because I have to use the HTML editor since the admin apparently hasn't upgraded the site to Internet Explorer 11's web standard.

 

Normally that wouldn't be much of a problem if the message editor wasn't completely broken. Thank goodness I took HTML in high school, although my memory of advanced editing in HTML has slipped me. So unfortunately, my posts will be simple and short for a while (and if anyone could tell me how to get rid of the extra spaces in between my post and the one I'm quoting, that would be great). I don't like Firefox, and using Chrome is like browsing in front of your own personal NSA agent. The only other one I used to like was Opera, but they haven't updated their x64 bit browser since July 2013. Unfortunately, Simtropolis is the only site that's broken when I use Internet Explorer. Everything else works fine (including other boards like Overclock and Bitdefender, which I frequent often). Though I doubt he'll care, if an admin is reading this, could you please upgrade Simtropolis for us Internet Explorer 11 users? Thanks!