So what's wrong with regions?

[nhgriffith 179]

There have been several complaints about the new games, and we all know what they are... this thread isn't about those reasons. But today I noticed several posts complaining about regional play in SC2013. No one has really explained what the problem is, they're just saying it needs to be fixed. And I'm confused as to what needs to be fixed. Can someone enlighten me?

[BLANKBLANK 4,414]

In Simcity 4 every city tile had a neighbour, in SC 2013 there are now spaces between city tiles which has resulted in much gnashing of teeth, lamentation, grandiose criticism and a number of hard core fans saying they won't buy the game.

 

Having played the beta and seeing for myself the separate city tiles I don't see what the fuss is about but I do appreciate that it would have been nicer if the city tiles had been connected together.

[nhgriffith 179]

But despite the visual gap... the cities are actually significantly better connected in the new game then they ever were in SimCity 4.

In SimCity 4, pollution never crossed city boundaries. It does in the new game... and the wind can/will shift, so don't think you're safe just because the wind is currently blowing the pollution in the right way.

In SimCity 4, your Sims would commute to neighbors they touched directly given the right transit connection (you could confine them to your city if you wanted). In the new game, the Sims can commute farther down the highway. Also, you can't prevent the sims from commuting.

In SimCity 4, you could buy/sell power, water, and trash to your neighbor. That was it. In the new game, you can still do this... but you can also give these resources to your neighbors for free or in exchange for some other sort of deal.

In SimCity4, a fire station, police station, or hospital at the edge of your city was a waste. In the new game, it's still probably a slight waste, but those services are now closer to the highway connection if you are sharing them with a neighbor... or if your police need to stop your neighbors criminals as soon as they enter your city...

And that's another thing... it's not just pollution that will spill over city boundaries. Crime didn't spill over city boundaries in SC4, but it will in this game.

In SimCity 4, a University in your city meant the residents of your city were better educated. In the new game, Sims will commute from all over the region to come to the University (much like real life where in many towns, the student body of the University consists of 50% of the population of the city).

I mean, as far as I can tell, the only way region play is worse is that it just looks a little too spread out for some people's taste. They're not "visually connected," but by every other measure, the cities are far more connected then they ever have been in any game.

So is the complaint purely about the visual look of the region in region view? Or is there something I'm missing about the actual game play mechanics of regions?

[hunkske 53]

I did not get a chance unfortunately to play the beta, but have seen a lot of youtube video's

 

Most players indeed object to the fact that there are very large gaps between the cities. Given that a city tile is a square, it kind of looks unnatural. I would have liked to see these city tiles if not right next to eachother, very very close to one another.

 

Having said this, I do look forward to the game. It does seem to have a lot of nice things... and hopefully in the future the tiles get larger resulting in less gaps or very optimistic now, no gaps anymore! What gameplay is concerned, so far I have not seen anything which I have not liked

[Gamma Stardust 50]

So is the complaint purely about the visual look of the region in region view? Or is there something I'm missing about the actual game play mechanics of regions?

 

From the gameplay pov it does look improved, and aside of the visual discontinuity, as i see it, the thing that bothers most is the missed oportunity:

Regions in SC4 represented the possibility to build "wider" and "integrated" cities, region play in SC2013 does integration better but only precariously addresses the "wider" part, sorely missed since the city tiles are smaller against SC4.

 

All other things aside i do appreciate the apparent gameplay improvements to the region play.

[Hoipus 292]

Another complaint is that you can't exactly choose how the cities are connected, or whether or not to connect to other cities or not.

[Indiana Joe 1,750]

Can I make this in a SC2013 region?

 

 

 

No way I'm paying 60 bucks for what I've seen in Beta screenshots.  You'd be done with the city in a few hours.

[Sunfighter 186]

But despite the visual gap... the cities are actually significantly better connected in the new game then they ever were in SimCity 4.

In SimCity 4, pollution never crossed city boundaries. It does in the new game... and the wind can/will shift, so don't think you're safe just because the wind is currently blowing the pollution in the right way.

In SimCity 4, your Sims would commute to neighbors they touched directly given the right transit connection (you could confine them to your city if you wanted). In the new game, the Sims can commute farther down the highway. Also, you can't prevent the sims from commuting.

In SimCity 4, you could buy/sell power, water, and trash to your neighbor. That was it. In the new game, you can still do this... but you can also give these resources to your neighbors for free or in exchange for some other sort of deal.

In SimCity4, a fire station, police station, or hospital at the edge of your city was a waste. In the new game, it's still probably a slight waste, but those services are now closer to the highway connection if you are sharing them with a neighbor... or if your police need to stop your neighbors criminals as soon as they enter your city...

And that's another thing... it's not just pollution that will spill over city boundaries. Crime didn't spill over city boundaries in SC4, but it will in this game.

In SimCity 4, a University in your city meant the residents of your city were better educated. In the new game, Sims will commute from all over the region to come to the University (much like real life where in many towns, the student body of the University consists of 50% of the population of the city).

I mean, as far as I can tell, the only way region play is worse is that it just looks a little too spread out for some people's taste. They're not "visually connected," but by every other measure, the cities are far more connected then they ever have been in any game.

So is the complaint purely about the visual look of the region in region view? Or is there something I'm missing about the actual game play mechanics of regions?

 

Nobody has enough time with the game yet to see if the regional play even functions as you say correctly. So visual stuff is all people can comment on the regional stuff, your positives included. All your stuff is just marketing hearsay till people get more than an hour to play and get to dig into the guts of the engine and see how it functions with say...16 cities..

[Towel 76]

Umm... All those features have been confirmed.

 

That't not marketting, that's just a simple listed feature ...

 

If they do not work in the final product there will be a riot!

[Sunfighter 186]

Confirmed as features...but not confirmed as functional yet because nobodies got to see it in action outside maybe a few media people for a few hours..and maxis themselves. Id say give it a few days before its listed as a major improvement over SC4. I like the ideas, but id like to see it functional first before id call it great. As there could be quirks in the engine that we wont see till several hours and several million people populate a region.

[Towel 76]

Pretty sure those in the Dev Beta have confirmed it all works.

[Jahnri 21]

I am really curious how long it will be before they start allowing regional development of the transportation grid. Laying down the roads, rails and such isn't beyond the simulation or even a balance issue. I suppose when your dealing with so many variables though its best to get the games basics finished. Thats the thing with Simcity games. They tend to grow and for quite some time. 

 

Still Indiana brings up a great point. Simcity 4 can do things Simcity 2013 cant. The really interesting thing to me is what it can do on a regional level. 

[Towel 76]

I am really curious how long it will be before they start allowing regional development of the transportation grid. Laying down the roads, rails and such isn't beyond the simulation or even a balance issue. I suppose when your dealing with so many variables though its best to get the games basics finished. Thats the thing with Simcity games. They tend to grow and for quite some time. 

 

Still Indiana brings up a great point. Simcity 4 can do things Simcity 2013 cant. The really interesting thing to me is what it can do on a regional level. 

 

SimCity (2013) does a lot of things SimCity 4 doesn't do too... I doubt we'll get much control over the region outside of the cities themselves!

[CaptCity 4,756]

This whole "Region" discussion has been raised before at some length. a topic on the same issues. Feel free to read through it and post there.

 

And we really don't need all these nested quotes if responding to the immediate previous poster.

[Kopiok 9]

So, my impression of the problem people have with the region arrangements actually boils down to a fundamental argument between the types of people who play SimCity,

 

This is: City-Sandbox vs. City-Game

 

People who (probably) spent the most time with SimCity4 or, at least the ones on this site, are the kind of people that want a city sandbox. They want to customize the look and feel of their entire experience down to the pixel and want to make their city look just so. They may care less about the financial viability of their city, for example, for anything other than building it to their liking within the framework of the game. They care about the visual accuracy and/or the effects of true city planning techniques. These are the people that dislike the new region arrangement because the visual flow of their city region is broken up with useless nothingness and weird city shapes.

 

The other kind of person who would play SimCity titles is looking for a city building game. They measure their success on how much hi-tech industry they have, how many gifts they've unlocked, positive financial flow, happy residents, ect... They like messing with the numbers. These people probably don't care about how the region is visually arranged, but enjoy the increased interaction between city plots in order to game their region numbers and make their regions as efficient as possible.

 

Now, these two aren't mutually exclusive and exist on a spectrum that any player can fall on toward any end, or the middle.

 

The new features of the new SimCity title cater largely and extensively to the City-Game crowd (Specializations, Great Works, Glassbox). These happen to be at the expense of the City-Sandbox crowd (smaller plot sizes, no terraforming, separated regions). Because SimCity4 is played today largely because of the efforts of the modders, and the mods trend to cater extensively to the City-Sandbox crowd, the people who consider themselves the core-fans of the title (who have been playing for years and years) feel as though their needs aren't being catered to (because they aren't) and view the new title negatively. Since they're the most recent players they are the most vocal. They are also probably the demographic catered to the most at this site, so that goes doubly for these forums. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and their concerns are completely legitimate for their play style. That's just why you're hearing many complaints about the new regions.

 

That's my hypothesis, anyway.

[Hoipus 292]

So, my impression of the problem people have with the region arrangements actually boils down to a fundamental argument between the types of people who play SimCity,

 

This is: City-Sandbox vs. City-Game

 

People who (probably) spent the most time with SimCity4 or, at least the ones on this site, are the kind of people that want a city sandbox. They want to customize the look and feel of their entire experience down to the pixel and want to make their city look just so. They may care less about the financial viability of their city, for example, for anything other than building it to their liking within the framework of the game. They care about the visual accuracy and/or the effects of true city planning techniques. These are the people that dislike the new region arrangement because the visual flow of their city region is broken up with useless nothingness and weird city shapes.

 

The other kind of person who would play SimCity titles is looking for a city building game. They measure their success on how much hi-tech industry they have, how many gifts they've unlocked, positive financial flow, happy residents, ect... They like messing with the numbers. These people probably don't care about how the region is visually arranged, but enjoy the increased interaction between city plots in order to game their region numbers and make their regions as efficient as possible.

 

Now, these two aren't mutually exclusive and exist on a spectrum that any player can fall on toward any end, or the middle.

 

The new features of the new SimCity title cater largely and extensively to the City-Game crowd (Specializations, Great Works, Glassbox). These happen to be at the expense of the City-Sandbox crowd (smaller plot sizes, no terraforming, separated regions). Because SimCity4 is played today largely because of the efforts of the modders, and the mods trend to cater extensively to the City-Sandbox crowd, the people who consider themselves the core-fans of the title (who have been playing for years and years) feel as though their needs aren't being catered to (because they aren't) and view the new title negatively. Since they're the most recent players they are the most vocal. They are also probably the demographic catered to the most at this site, so that goes doubly for these forums. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, and their concerns are completely legitimate for their play style. That's just why you're hearing many complaints about the new regions.

 

That's my hypothesis, anyway.

 An interesting hypothesis. Isn't Ocean Quigley one of those sandbox types who like making aesthetically pleasing cities?

[cirugo 1,889]

so you really weren't interested in knowing why people didn't like the regional setup in the new game...you just wanted to argue with the people that don't like...as made apparent in your second post in this thread.

[Jahnri 21]

Whats interesting is, when you really look at what Quigley likes, its unlikely whats coming out is what the game will end up being. Not after quite a lot of additions.

[Zukunftstraume 220]

I'll give you one reason and one reason only:

 

 

HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO BUILD A MEGALOPOLIS NOW!?!?!?!!?

 

dream metropolis....... ruined

[nats 99]

The only reason they added this region thing is to enhance multiplayer interaction. But its come at the expense of damaging the rest of the game. Who buys a Simcity game to build a load of small villages? Who buys a Simcity game to build a vast metropolis? The fact is none of the old simcity fans will be pleased with this game until they at least move the regions adjacent to each other. Some of the mass gamers will buy it of course but then they buy anything play it for a week and then move on. But they have really alienated their established long term fanbase with the decision they made - the people who will buy their DLC. They call it progression, everyone else calls it a step backward. If you dont like it dont buy it. Speak with your wallet. Its all we can do. Then they will change it. If we all buy it and suffer the lack of gameplay that will give the wrong message.

[ReschNicolai 6]

Look at this $%&^!:

 

Its going to be 2x2 km floating cities and no region play, $%&^! why did the ruin my wish to build large region cities?

[baertooth 330]

I agree with ReschNicolai, that picture looks like crap.  Had they put the above features with SC4 style regions, then we would have a winner.  But this is terrible.  I don't even know how this could be disputed?  Look at the above SC4 region picture supplied by Indiana Joe vs ReschNicolai's and I think it's apparent what's wrong with Simcity 2013's regions.

 

And as a dev, I would have had serious reservations about what I was doing as soon as I realized what Zukunftsraume pointed out.  Good bye megalopolis.    It's kinda like taking jumping out of FPS games and replacing it with sliding.  Yes, sliding would be useful, but not at the cost of jumping.  Why step back in technology in what suppose to be a AAA title?

[Hoipus 292]

They actually did that with bulletstorm.

[Evil_One 119]

Look at this $%&^!:

 

Its going to be 2x2 km floating cities and no region play, $%&^! why did the ruin my wish to build large region cities?

 

This is how I'd imagine SimCity Social would look if you could see other peoples cities and it was 3D.

[CaptCity 4,756]

We've been through this all ready - see my post above...