Reddonquixote's BAT thread

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Hooray.. after 4 failed exports at 1.5 hours each I finally managed to export a day model without LOD errors!

 

While I was doing that I thought I'd make the easiest BAT in Melbourne, the Ernst & Young Building at 8 Exhibition Street.. I thought it was just going to be some blue glass boxes.. true Melbourne style though its perched (rather oddly) on top of the old Herald Sun Building, so its taken quite a lot longer than I expected. I still need to do more on the roofs but I've run out of steam for tonight

 

[libellibicus 396]

Very nice modelling.  Yet another of your BATs that I'll have to find some space for.

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Interestingly, Shadow Assassin made this same building, sans towers.

I think its a good one; passed it on the train today.

[Darknono35 3,137]

Wow, I can't wait to see your work on the textures

You're an really BAT Factory

[dubaidude303 1,119]

Awesome!!! Looks great

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Geeze you're fast!

 

I think for this it would be great to release the original building first, and then release a version with the tower second.

[Vlasky 1,803]

Geeze you're fast!

 

I think for this it would be great to release the original building first, and then release a version with the tower second.

 I second this request! ) for us who like the classical look this would be a god given present pretty please with cherry and a BAT on top

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Great idea Jason... the original building is rather lovely and would make a nice BAT in itself. The towers, while not to everyone's taste, are quite nice as well, but personally I think they really do look a bit strange the way they have been perched on top of this building.

 

I had a look at the existing BAT on the STEX this morning (Was actually Deadwoods creation , it was quite old and i think it looks like GMAX, hoping I can do justice to a remake), I was also quite keen to see how that one had dealt with two difficult features of this building, the first one is the steep slope of the block, and secondly the size of the lot. I've had to compensate for both.

- I didn't really want the lot to be bigger than 6x4, so I have reduced the depth of the building by about 3 window lengths I think it was, however this has resulted in a smaller area on the roof for the towers, so have shuffled some things around to accomodate (hence why at the moment the towers look a bit precariously plonked on top).

- Due to the slope of the block, the southern end of the building has one additional floor than the northern end. Again, I've compensated by just making it level all around. One thing I did notice after my post yesterday, I didn't really check the scale height of the towers, I think they should be taller than this.

 

I'm going to start on night export for 101 CSM today - Oh btw, think I'm going to make a Growable version this time, people seem to prefer them. (without purporting to know what people think )

[Xander Dax 310]

WOW both Ernst & Young and 101 Collins look amazing reserving space right now!, how goes Freshwater Place and Spencer Street Station?.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I just did a quick measure in google earth, and it's about 70 m wide, and 60 m deep.  Depth-wise, it's perfect for 4 tiles deep, including the 1.6 m setback and some space for the alley.  Width-wise, it's about 4.4 tiles wide.  Which while isn't 6+ tiles, is still an awkward size.  Rounding down to a 4x4 would be a little more accurate, but rounding up to a 5x4 might be in better keeping with the architecture and it would leave more space on top for the tower...

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Quite right Jason (as usual!)... 6x4 is 101's lot dimensions, I actually made this one 5x3. The reason for 3 instead of 4 was to allow one tile space for the laneway, but what you've suggested is make the laneway part of the lot... an infintely superior suggestion lol! I will add those windows back in now, hopefully without too much pain involved!

 

Edit:

I just realised that probably made no sense why I altered the whole architecture of my model because of a laneway.. what I've been doing is mapping out buildings so they fit together on the SC4 grid. Each city block in Melbourne is 200mx200m between the main roads, with 'Little' roads running East-West, cutting through the middle of each square block. Therefore, on a scale map of Melbourne I have made the blocks 12 tiles by 13 tiles, and a single road intersecting through E-W. (Effectively each sub-block is 12 tiles by 6 tiles).

 

 

I then use this to determine the best lot sizes for the BAT. In the case of the Herald Sun Building, I needed 2 tiles deep for the buildings running along Flinders Lane, one tile for the Laneway/Alley behind the H-Sun building, leaving only 3 tiles deep for the H-Sun lot. (Hence why I came out at 5x3) This method obviously creates its own problems, but I think should work out better in the end.

 

I just realised the base of 101 is horribly overscaled...

 

[gutterclub 2,729]

Scotty also started this BAT without the Herald building..its a great building and you will do it justice...sure they're are plenty of easier BAT's in Melbourne though...Optus Centre

[weixc812 509]

Yepp, the CBD map really blows me up...I'm so excited to see these future projects!!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

oh yeah I see what you're doing.  Yeah I'd definitely include the alley ways on the lots.  They're only about 4 or 5 m wide total (though some are probably wider), so they'd actually only be like 2.5 or 2 or so m on each lot, assuming the alley falls on the tile line.  The alleys can also give you a little bit of wiggle room with the lotting.  For example, if you have a block that is 7 tiles wide, and the lots should be 3.5 tiles wide, then you can make one lot 3 tiles wide, and the other 4 tiles wide, and you can include the entire alley on the 4 tile wide lot.

[Za 164]

I've missed so much good work! While the buildings are top-notch as usual, I find myself quite impressed by the office furniture. Excellent.

[APSMS 1,892]

I believe Deadwoods did this building way back when (2005), but w/o the condos stacked on the top of the original base. It would be nice to have an updated version of the original

 

(it can be found not sure if you were aware of it). His version is 4x5; it would be nice if they matched so we could easily switch between versions, especially considering that SC4 scale isn't always an appropriate calibration tool (all single tile roads are 16 meters wide, even narrow streets, so the fit of buildings is always going to be a little off.)

 

I tried to do downtown San Diego w/the road grid to scale and found that some parts were ridiculously under-scaled because of the restrictive grid, and thus compromised and made it look right, even if the dimensions of the blocks and such were off.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Couple of updates of the in-game exports. On my 'good' machine, all my exports are failing with LOD errors. I'm hoping I just need to reinstall GMAX.. It just took so many hours of fails to work it out On my slower machine, the exports went fine, but took about 5 times as long... but finally here they are, ready for modding and soon, uploading

 

 

 

I'm just about ready to share some shots of EY Plaza textured as well

[Darknono35 3,137]

It's sweet to heard it will be uploaded soon. It's wonderful my friend one of your best high quality !!

[RepublicMaster 428]

Love this BAT! Looks great

[weixc812 509]

It's delightful to hear this BAT is almost ready...now I'm searching for a place for it in my city

Hope it won't be oversized.

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Aw man, those export problems really suck. 5 times the render time doesn't sound like fun at all. I keep my fingers crossed you'll be able to sort out the problem.

 

As for  the BAT, please allow me to get ye olde drool bucket and enjoy silently instead of commenting.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

As promised, here's an update on EY Plaza

 

 

Things to work on:

1) The beige/cream coloured objects on the roofs look flat/ plasticy. Need to give them more character.

2) The yellow pilons under the tower are too pastel-lemony

3) I'd think I'd like the windows around the Herald Sun building a bit darker.

4) The garage door texture on the front of the H-Sun building doesn't show

5) The parapet around the top of the H-Sun building is too clean... I wonder if I've applied the wrong texture...

6) I'm really pleased with the glass... first time ever!.. First time I've used a SC4 screen shot as the ground texture too. What does everyone think of the noticeable L-shaped roof-line reflecting in the right image.. its too obvious isn't it?

 

I think other than that I'm pretty happy with it so far

 

Oh, now I've missed a few people:

• All with nice comments.. thankyou as always
• Xander... I just took a mini-break from Flinders Station but will come back to it next. Freshwater Place is still there.. waiting lol... I'm taking a week off work at the end of this week.. should get some serious BAT time in
• Gutterclub.. Optus Centre.. really? Actually... I made it and wasn't that easy!.. I think I meant EY Plaza was easier to model, the glass was always going to be a challenge, for me anyway.. but the model was simple as can be.
• Za.. where have you been! Welcome back
• APSMS.. thanks for dropping by. I had seen Deadwoods BAT, but not until after I started this one. Actually, I think that was more of an "inspired by" creation, upon scrutiny, the building shape, dimensions and features are similar but not really the same, but I have kept it to 4x5 lot dimensions.

Oh, one last thing, those who are interested in the H-Sun building being released on its own, I'm interested to know whether you would be happy to keep the modernised/new bits (i.e the roof fittings, the carpark entrances and the E&Y metal awning, or should I replace these with more historical features?  Let me know?

[ROFLyoshi 1,760]

Except what you said and the rooftops possibly being too clean and boring, it's looking wonderful. The texture on the Herald Sun historic building is true to the original and frankly, I think better than Deadwoods verasion (sorry!!)

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

I just realized I haven't added you as my friend *shame*

 

Good BAT, although this is not my favourite building (but it's because of the architecture, not because of your model)

 

EDIT: Aw man, I was refering to the update before this one. 

[T Wrecks 10,209]

No need to apologise, deadwoods made his version years ago with far less powerful tools at his disposal. We have seen a tremendous increase in BAT quality over the years. Is this due to current BATters being better than their "colleagues" a few years ago? Well, maybe some are. However, you also need to consider that these days there are stronger PCs (will handle bigger renders), superior possibilities (3dstudio Max 2012 and BAT4Max vs. old gmax), and I guess we have also seen a continuous accumulation of knowledge within the entire BATting community that provides better resources for newcomers to build upon and get better. I'd even go so far as to include the commenters: Back in the early days, it was a matter of New BAT vs. No BAT. BATs in themselves were exciting, and so most BATs were probably not measured and critiqued by today's standards of quality. Whenever I look at myself, I see that I am now capable of providing feedback on a level I would never have reached back in 2004/2005, for simple lack of knowledge. However, you learn a tidbit here and another tidbit there, and after a while you can comment halfways reasonably on so many things you wouldn't even have noticed five years ago.

 

Well, so much for me rambling... back to topic:

 

If you release a standalone version of the Herald Sun Building, I'm all for the historical version. We can already use the modernised version for modern cities, so the historical version will be a great addition for older cities.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

There are some things that are missing/not quite right with the herald sun building:

 

1.  On most of the walls there should be horizontal grooves.  If you've modeled them but they still aren't visible you'll have to texture them. 

 

2.  On the top floor, the windows should not be set back from the main facade.

 

3.  You don't seem to have the main cornice.

 

4.  On the front of the building, the entire facade above the base is set back a little bit when it should not be.

 

5.  The sides not facing the streets should be flat tan brick.  The side facing the alley has some windows on it which are visible on google street view.  The other side probably never had any windows on it.

 

6.  The stone fence thing on the roof should be at about the same depth as the walls underneath it (it is not set back).

 

7.  The tall narrow windows on the ground floor should be more narrow.  Make the center stone area between the windows thicker.

 

8.  The top sides of the stone pieces on the facade should have a stone texture and not a roof texture.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Thanks Jason, this is very helpful, I agree with most of your points and should be pretty easy to fix. A couple of things for clarification though-

 

1- Horizontal grooves on most of the walls... i really only see them along the top row of windows, and very minutely poking out behind the stone pillars (Oh, and on the corner pillars as well). These are modelled, but agree will need to be textured. Do you also mean along the base as well? Because I see these as large stone block bricks. These are currently textured, but maybe the grooves in the brick need to be darker. (If I squint at the building in street view, they don't jump out at me though...)

3 - Main cornice - do you mean the one that runs around the roof? I'll check that again properly tonight, I'm wondering if this is causing some of the other problems you have pointed out. Its definitely there, but you have stated some of the other features of the building are set back when they should not be, where as I would say its the cornice jutting out that is causing this. (Top row of windows excepted, I agree these are set back too far). I will recheck it because something obviously isn't right. Probably I'll remove it, make sure everything is lined up correctly, then put it back and see what that looks like. The cornice iteself probably needs to extend out more, and I am missing the stone feet things along the underside of the cornice (They probably have a name I don't know what they are called )

5) The back wall is as you described, although I just noticed there are some shapes along the base and a door I have not included. its hard to get a good look down the alley from street view. On the other side, you're probably right it probably never had any windows, but I have put them on there for the sake of not having a blank wall to look at. I will reconsider whether this is appropriate...

 

Thanks again!

 

Edit:  re #1 again - The stone features between the pillars and the windows aren't showing up in the render either.. this is making these sections look flatter than they should. I might need to do something with the textures to bring these out more

[Lindsaygaskell94 13]

They are all looking great!!

What about 385 Borke Street?

 

[Darknono35 3,137]

Great work, i like your glass reflection like always. And this building is amazing, an old building with an other modern tower added on the top it's original.

Keep it up

[gutterclub 2,729]

I'd really make the glass bluer..its one of those buildings that pop out you..have a look at Scottys version and having seen the place a few times, it's definitely a lot lighter..the material itself is fine, just the colour :)