Chicago BAT Project

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I agree with RDQ. Have you tried those methods for adding procedural dirt & weathering? Especially the rooftops of your building would probably benefit from it.

[shinkansen1 84]

Are the sloped glass panes supposed to stay dark at night? I feel as if the building is drastically under-occupied at night.

[Darknono35 3,137]

Hi guys, this is my first post on the CBT thread as active member to re-create the Windy-City.

Here the first picture of the CNA Plaza. This box has forever fascinated  me with his reddish color in the skyline of Chicago.

 

This is just an first update, improvement coming soon

[libellibicus 396]

A solid start.  The roof textures are great....as per usual.

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Looks great already! You're the BATer who never sleeps...you just keep pumping them out!

[Susaji 523]

Looks Nice!

[T Wrecks 10,209]

The roof, the roof, the roof is a beauty

The roof, the roof, the roof is a beauty

The roof, the roof, the roof is a beauty

We don't need no Maxis, let our great Darknono BAT

BAT, dear Darknono, BAT

 

*start headbanging*

[art128 4,618]

Looks already fantastic!

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

@reddon: Thanks for you cooment, those comments help me quite a lot. 

 

About the awning, you are right. However, taking a look at my reference is showing this pretty much looks like the RL awning. But still I feel the same, they're looking empty. 

 

 

I totally agree on the boxes. Any texture suggestion?

 

The roof actually is rather clean but I will try adding some more dirt wand weathering to see how it'ss look.

 

 

And none of the glass has any reflectivity, unfortunately!

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

Glad it helped! I disagree about the cleanness of the roof though. Look what happens when I increase the contrast in that image. You can see a lot of grime right around the edges, quite a build up around the AC units, and all in between the tiles. Don't be too fooled by the sun-glared images of google rooftop images

 

 

I see what you mean about the awnings. You might need to find a compromise of some sort though, people aren't going to have the photo next to them every time they look at your BAT, it comes back to what looks right sometimes is more important than what it looks like in RL. (I'm no way a texture expert though!)

 

Some suggestions for the aircon units.. I'd start by looking at some images close up, the first thing you notice is they aren't white, the second thing is they aren't all one colour.

 

If you don't want to go to the level of detail of making all the components, I'd suggest using a texture that has natural variation in it, such as weathering or rusting. Maybe something like this one below (Probably enhanced in Photoshop or similar). Don't forget also, they are made of metal, so they should be made to look metallic.

 

[Darknono35 3,137]

CNA Plaza: textures corrections and details added

[libellibicus 396]

Everybody who BATs/wants to BAT high rise buildings should take a good look at this for an example on how to do roof textures....this is sublime.  I also like the grunge/dirt you've added around the rear entrances.  Is that procedural or Photoshop?

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

@reddon: Thank you very much. That is the kind of comments I like! And I will try out your suggestions. And you are good enough in textures to help someone like me out. However, I'm still not quite sure how I can add that dirt particulary.|

 

@darknono: Looks good, but I think the red is too saturated.

[darn42 1,268]

Nice contribution Reddon, I'm sure it will help. 

 

Darknono, this looks fantastic! The roof is unbelievable, but I agree the red is too red. Add some more blue and green into it and lower the value. The facade is a bit orangey and it's pretty light.

[SimCoug 5,973]

And thank you for getting that song in my head twrecks...

[Francis90b 748]

I see what you mean about the awnings. You might need to find a compromise of some sort though, people aren't going to have the photo next to them every time they look at your BAT, it comes back to what looks right sometimes is more important than what it looks like in RL. (I'm no way a texture expert though!)

 

You don't have any idea about what "people" might think.

 

As a fact, in general only a fraction of those using a BAT cares to comment on it - fewer would get into a detailed feedback, fewer still would know about BAT threads, and even fewer within those fewer would actually have their say there - therefore, the maximum someone might hope for is to know what a very restricted minority of them might (usually) think.

You might know what Libellibicus, Art128, Darknono or Simcoug might think - but, you don't, and won't, have the slightest idea about "what people think".

 

 

Wheter real life building's canopy is "dreary" or not, Skyscraper, portray it as it is.

This way everyone might like or hate the real thing or something very close to it - and not just like or hate something that has been "corrected" to please the whims of a vocal elite...

 

People will speak if they wish, and in the mean time, we ought to give our best effort into representing something that, before existing in our judgement and in our perception, exists in itself, and in that way should be offered to other people - basically:

 

A BAT should speak, it's BATer should stay silent.

 

(this applies to those posting feedback as well).

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

 

people aren't going to have the photo next to them every time they look at your BAT

 

You don't have any idea about what "people" might think.

 

Harsh... please recheck my quote then your quote.. I didn't say anything about what people might think. Why would anyone post something like this to someone who is just trying to help?

[mattb325 28,880]

 

 

people aren't going to have the photo next to them every time they look at your BAT

 

You don't have any idea about what "people" might think.

 

Harsh... please recheck my quote then your quote.. I didn't say anything about what people might think. Why would anyone post something like this to someone who is just trying to help?

 

I wouldn't worry too much about his opinions, reddonquixote.

 

When he does the same to me, I simply take a look on the STEX at the sum total of his actual output and in that context look at how he goes about making his points on the forums. At that moment I am satisfied with exactly the sort of individual I am dealing with.

[Francis90b 748]

 

 

people aren't going to have the photo next to them every time they look at your BAT

 

You don't have any idea about what "people" might think.

 

Harsh... please recheck my quote then your quote.. I didn't say anything about what people might think. Why would anyone post something like this to someone who is just trying to help?

 

 

I suppose i might have needed to explain myself better, then.

 

Facts:

 

1)You commented on skyscraper's work, stating, among other things, that the awning seemed too clean.

 

2)Skyscraper stated that shared your points, but has also shown a view of the actual awning - stating that while it felt "empty" even  to him.

 

3)You posted your post, part of which i've i quoted.

 

 

You mentioned the need to find a "compromise" because "people" won't have a pic of the RL thing to look at each time they will look at his BAT.

 

This means you assume that "people" might not find a faithful depiction of RL thing as "acceptable" to them (unless they have a RL photo to look at, which of course isn't gong to happen), and that therefore "some compromise" might be necessary...but from where is that assumption, which is basis for your suggestion, coming from, especially given that you can't possibly know what "people" might think?

 

This is why i pointed it out - and then i moved from this specific episode to a more general perspective.

 

I'm sorry that you took my post so badly, and i reckon your good will in attempting to help - but i would like to ask you wheter would (or should) goodwill alone be able to shield an opinion or argument from any consideration that goes against it...

 

 

My upload score is non-existant, and someone burned or upset by my criticism can easily take this as a nice pretext to ditch any criticism or opinion I express.Some find it comfortable to react in that way...

[Reddonquixote 4,338]

I don't think its fair to hijack someone's thread with a debate topic so will try and bring it back if I may... my feedback was I thought the awnings looked flat and untextured, by compromise I didn't mean to imply do something that doesn't resemble the original, just find a way to make it not look flat and untextured. So, to offer an actual solution, I would suggest using a gradient of some sort, and possibly some noise to break it up.

 

Here's some I made as a guide, no idea what they will look like but feel free to give these a go, using Unwrap UVW. Feel free to use/modify/discard as you wish (I'd say these would definitely need lightening and/or desaturating)

 

 

[gutterclub 2,729]

This whole RL debate is pointless, because 100,000 photos could all be different, you could be perched hovering in the sky at the exact Sim City camera angle and the building will never look the same twice..

 

Skyscraper said the roof is clean in the photo he saw, RDQ said it wasn't when the contrast was lowered..both are right, which really makes the point of a thread for feedback irrelevant...at the end of the day if the BATer is satified with his result it doesn't matter if it looks great in game or looks realistic but out of place, or both, or neither

 

At the end of the day, BATing is a form of art where the BATer expresses his thoughts on a subject matter (the building) on the canvas that is 3D software. There is no right or wrong and there is NO reason for argument...

 

With all that said, sort the awnings out, they're too flat haha

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Yup, and besides IMO "what people think" is a theoretical concept anyway because you cannot ask everybody every time. It might even be contra-productive because there's bound to be a lot of people out there who don't have the slightest knowledge about this topic, and absolutely no sense for it. FWIW, some may decide on the level "Hey, it's pink - I love it if it's pink!", "Make it shiny, I love shiny stuff", or similar.

 

Hence going by those opinions that you can get in your thread is the best you can do, because you will A) get input from others who may have an 'unspoiled' view on your BAT, B) there's hope that those people you have in your thread are more interested, involved, and knowledgeable than the general community, C) you will hopefully have different people that represent different opinions, and D) there are only so many statements concerning a particular question anyway, so it doesn't matter whether 3 out 4 or 75,000 out of 100,000 recommend to desaturate a texture, scale up a part of your BAT, or whatever it is: You will get the message delivered to you so that you can see whether there's some truth in it and how you're going to deal with it.

[Francis90b 748]

Feedback

 

It's sometimes fair to state that perhaps "out-of-there" people might often "have little knowledge about the topic, and no sense for it" .

 

Even in BAT threads, not all feedback is worth the same - someone with an architecture degree (there are some few folks that have one) would be able to give me accurate and informed feedback...while some other posters would just post "advice" without much knowledge or reasoning behind it, sometimes even relying on their own biases and unfounded subjective expectations (pretty much the opposite of "unspoiled" advice...) - and sometimes you might indeed get something like "it's pink, therefore i like it!"....

 

BATers are in general open to suggestions - and some would try to satisfy pretty much everyone's wishes regardeless of the quality of the "advice" that's being offered - someone said that a BAT is the result of shared expectations, the BATer's, and those of the ones advising him.

If i may, i would reword that as the following: "A BAT is the result of a BATer's awareness and knowledge, and the knowledge and awareness of those advising him".

 

People

 

Someone has used the word "people" to back his own point - my concern was to clarify what "people" might mean.

 

-Who "people" are?

-And once we know who they are, is there any way to infer what their thoughts might be?

-And if so, is there a common compromise that would please them all?

-Or, any path one might go, only a minority of them can be pleased?

-Would it be fair to give everyone else a BAT that had been tweaked to please those few?

-Or wouldn't it be better to produce something that represent the BATer's best strive at an unbiased result?

 

Art...

 

BATing is no exact science, but has within it's making some traits that are the keystone of science - observing reality (in it's many faces), analyze it, reason about it.

The very quality of a BAT often relies on those steps- one can reason over things and choose a possibility after having gathered some knowledge about a topic - i'm sure that Darn42 has looked at the pics of the Chase that were shown him within this site, as well as looking himself for more material - he might surely have realized that "pic X" had been shot under an overcast sky, that "pic Y" had been shot at a clear, sunny day, that "pic Z" was underexposed, and so on - and from there, from gathering those infos and analyzing them, he came with results - results that changed over time, but results that sprung from observation and analysis, and not from that mindset that claims "there's no right or wrong, things are ever-changing, therefore i'd pick whatever floats my boat".

 

Art pt. 2: choosing

 

There's a common misconception that links "choosing" with "art - now, let's imagine a botanist surveying an uncharted, exotic land, full of unknown-so-far species of plants...the botanist and his expedition crew venture in this land, observe, survey, analyze...then they choose what to do with those new species they've discovered - what cathegory should they fit in? How should they be presented to the scientific community? What name we ought to give them? - that's some choosing as well, and is in no way different than what a BATer does - BTW, would you ever call a botanist an artist? I bet you wouldn't.

 

A BATer would, like a botanist, move into an uncharted land (the building he would like to recreate, or the idea of that building), observe and analyze it's plant (gather datas), then decide what to do with them, and present them to the scientific (BATing) community.

 

That said, i'd suggest to move this whole discussion in another location, should a mod see it fit.

[Ro-Bo 183]

I thought BAT thread is to discuss BATs. It's not a deBATe thread.

[Toothless Stitch 2,901]

Guys, please! If I would have known what such an comment can be leading to I wouldn't have posted all that stuff. Please keep friendly as this is a site and a forum and a thread people are supposed to help each other or just post something topic related. I'm not saying this conversation isn't Batting related, but still this is distracting from the actual purpose of this thread and such excellent work like darknono's and darn's stuff (if he will be back)

 

I guess I'M speaking for all the members of our team if I'm saying that that comments like reddon's are quite useful and, speaking of those comments, I know that giving detailed feedback and improvement suggestions isn't ease at all (as I always try to post some but always run out of things to talk about).

 

An now, let's leave this debate with...

 

 

this new update. I changed the roof texture (I added some dirt )

 

Watcha think? Better?

 

Eat a Snickers!

[libellibicus 396]

Roof does look better now.  Good work.

[Darknono35 3,137]

Yeah! Your roof is better  , but I continue to say, you need to add a light weathering dirt, not for all the surface of the roof, but here for the gap between the tile.
Maybe you need to create this effect with composite, an noise map set with subtract  .

 

Your windows reflection are too washed in my opinion, look real glass building, they've windows are more clear

 

But good job so far, and your persistence will pay

[Darknono35 3,137]

And the CNA Plaza with an new color for his facade

I thinks the day version is ready, and I'll can began the nightlight, if you notice anything

 

[weixc812 509]

Yeah, I think the day view is ready

[mattb325 28,880]

I really like this new tone. It's very reminiscent of oxidation. Although not entirely identical to the original, it is a fair compromise for the games' palette and the building will still be a centrepiece in any downtown