Jason's BATs & Tutorials

[Fledgeling 1]

thats one of the neatest roof textures i have ever seen!

I do have a question about the black box. If its a problem, why cant you just make another box over it to conceal it?

[Hanson784 165]

Wow! There's been a flurry of activity in this thread since I've been here last.

The building is progressing nicely. I'm glad you're solving the problem with the lights washing out the texture. White is a tough texture to get down because when you look at reference photos it is always a different shade depending on the weather and time of day the picture was taken. Plus BAT tends to make white textures too bright; when I made The W.R. Grace Building I had to use a grayish texture to achieve that white granite appearance. Getting the texture just right took forever.

The roof texture is very nice also. Did you get it from Google Earth?

[Gecko_2006 1]

Wow. That building looks incredible Jason. The only thing I would suggest is making the address darker so it contrasts against the buildings surface.

[SimFox 801]

Great Progress Jason! You'll get hold of all those settings in no time!

BTW forgot to say that MR doesn't have Catmul-Rom, but it has Lanczos which even better - sharper at default settings and unlike Catmul-Rom can be adjusted.

Sample per pixel - set min to 1/4 and maximum to 16, setting higher value will put noticeable overhead on render time and would really bring any benefit at the BAT scale. When you set such a spread MR will decide on the go where to subdivide and where to combine - subdivide on areas with small details and combine on big flat surfaces (like roof).

In FG settings set radius in pixels (default values should be fine)

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks everyone!

I think it's funny that people like the roof texture so much.  Last time I posted about this building people said the same thing.  But to be honest, I'm going to be altering that texture.  I'm not sure how much, but right now it doesn't site well with me.

I meant to ask this earlier, but after I edited the light and camera rig file, none of the rotations work in 3dsmax.  There's just the south view and that's all.  Does anyone know how to fix this?

Fledgeling:

I've tried replacing the box, but the same problem happens.  I also tried modeling that entire part of the building as one peice (so the columns by the base, and the sides of the roof were once peice), but then the entire peice had the black problem.  But the black box problem has been solved to my general satisfaction.  I'd like to get it better, but it's ok if it's not.

Hanson784:

Yeah, I spent a long time trying to get it to look right in the BAT, but it was never really perfect.  Now, in 3ds max, I'm able to change the lights, and now I think the whiteness blends in to the game, and is also accurate to the real building.  One Woodward Avenue is marble, but I think this one is just cement, I'm not really sure.

The roof texture came from: http://www.animax.it/animax/Textures.htm

Gecko_2006:

The address is actually red, I just haven't gotten around to re-texturing that part yet.

[ardecila 124]

Okay - I just ran into that camera rig problem 2 nights ago when I was rendering my Madison/Wells Station.  You have to go back into the rig file, and add a dummy object called "TB2CameraHandle".  Then ungroup the cameras and select cameras Z1 through Z5.  Bind them to TB2CameraHandle.

Then go back into your building scene and delete the TB2CameraHandle that's already there to make room for the new XReffed one.  You might have to remove and then re-add the XRef to the rig scene.

This should work for ya.

[ardecila 124]

Page flip.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

I did everything, but when I try to bind it, nothing happens.  I select the cameras, press the bind button in the IK menu, and then click on the dummy.  It looks like I just end up selecting the dummy instead...

edit: nevermind, I just needed to rebind the rig to the TB2CameraHandle that was already in the scene.  I didn't need to do any binding in the rig file.

Ok, on to new things...

The shadows that fall on things are dark, but sides that just don't have any sun on them aren't very dark.  On 211 you can see that the flat part that doesn't get any sun isn't very dark, but the shadows taht are cast on the window frames are really dark, and it gives it a weird look.  How do I change this?

[SimFox 801]

Jason:

Just saw your post with the rotations problem.

There is something odd is going on there. How and where have you set up your lighting rig?

When you choose various views in Preview roll-out script will rotate XRef scene 45^o so that’s why al the alterations have to be done there! You can see it in File->XRef Scenes.

It should be TB2_CameraLighRig.max

Do all the setup there. Remember then to copy this file over other Medium, Big and Huge one –and also one in StartUp folder although I’m not sure if it is actually in use in Bat4Max at all, You shouldn’t have the problem you describing…

About you inconsistent shadows… well I can’t say anything without seeing your setup. Post it here or send me TB2_CameraLightRig.max file.

But you have to take bouncing light into account. Your shadow side will me illuminated by sky and also by light bouncing from the ground. So to reduce it you may have to darken the ground plane.

PS.
How did you do night windows on your Vinton building? You've done it in Max 8, right?? As much as I know classic Night Windows do not work starting from MAX8 - Error 6 error during the export...

[ardecila 124]

He got his rig from me. I in turn received this rig from bixel.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

opps, I wrote this post 6 hours ago, and meant to post it, but I guess I forgot to press the "reply" button, lol. 

The only things I've changed about that rig is the shadow and sun color (made the sun warmer and the shadow darker and warmer), and I think I increased the densitity (I think that's what it was called) of the shadow up a little bit.

How do I put in a ground plane?

The Vinton Building was done completely with Gmax.

[SimFox 801]

And Bixel had rotation problem with it!

I remember it one of the buildings now released in HK set 4 was rendered with lights coming from wrong direction.

here is what I mean:

Jason:

from what i see you are using shadow maps with your light sources... well it is a matter of choice...

I guess you may faulty rig. And although it is possible to open files from previous version in later one in Max it isn't very much advised, Geometry should be fine but some finer points may be sometimes not quite what they suppose to be. It is very easy to set the rig from the scratch - the light part of it. You only dealing with 2 light sources not a dozen like in the default one. use cameras from the original just change the lights.

Ground plane... Well this is essential part! cause if you don't have it skylight (depending a bit on which one you're using) will also illuminate your model from the down under - that, naturally, is wrong. you need a plane to block the light. Brightness of the plain (assuming you're going for a gray one) will also determine how much light is bouncing from it. Another value that will work in same direction is number of bounces you'll tell your render to take into account. You just put a plane down, big enough tho completely prevent light leaks from down to the entire structure. Make it invisible to the camera in object properties and voilá

BTW you shouldn't make shadow warmer.. you should make it colder.

And that would be inline with both real life and the game.

Generally you should environment to determine it's color. in real life color of reflective surface - and in real world every surface is a reflective one apart from black hole. will affect color of light bouncing from it. This way you can get for free those subtle but none the less rich colorshifts you see in the pictures of teapots in the shadow but especially shadow-light border area.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

opps, yeah, I meant cooler, not warmer, lol.  The sun was made more yellowy and the shadow was made more blueish.

I added the plane, and there was a very slight difference, but not much.

How do I do nitelites in 3dsmax 8 then?  I wanted just to use the normal ones (especially since I heard 3dsmax will antialias them, unlike gmax).

Things the last preview I showed was raytraced (I think), and that's also what it's at right now.

[SimFox 801]

If you use ray traced shadows you can't control their color - that option is available ONLY for shadow maps - as those are simple textures. With ray traced shadows you get what your lights are giving you. So if you want cooler shadows make your skylight cooler. Want deeper shadows make it weaker etc.

Well nightwindows do not work from ver 8 upwards (same problem in 9) there must be something in the script that conflicts with the way textures are applied. but i haven't looked into it in any detail... In Bat4Max you have new and much more powerful - although more complicated to use feature- night texture libraries. Basically any texture can be made into night texture by putting it in separate texture library. You can assign self-illumination to it . So anything can be made to light up in the night with literary unlimited number of colors, patterns, textures. but there are some limitations what should you use as names for objects and materials. Check readme that comes with Bat4Max

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Everyone who has dial up will be happy to hear that my next building is a small one.

It's a 1x1 corner lot.  There's another meter or two of decoration on the top, but other than that, it's topped out.  The other side is just a mirror of this side, except it has a modest door.  I'll also be adding in some windows to the blank walls, probably a row or two.  This is a small project I started today when I felt like BATing something, but not anything I had started, and I didn't want to start a new big project.  This one will probably be done modeling-wise by the end of tonight.  Texturing can be done over the next time or two I have time to BAT (so in a week or two).

Overall this is coming along well so far.  I've been modeling the building very accuratley (except for one or two parts because of SC4's resolution), and there's a lot that you can't see, but that's ok.  This is about 4 hours work.

The building is 751 Griswold Street.  As far as I know it has no historical significance, and isn't well known at all.  I'm sure it has enough of a back story for the querry though.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/snweb/224177690/

My next big project will be the Theodore Levin United States Courthouse from Detroit.  This building is adjacent to the Detroit Free Press Building, and 211 West Fort Street.  But this big project will wait untill after I finish 211 W. Fort, and One Woodward Avenue.

The reason I decided not to do the other buildings (for now at least), was because I knew reference photos would be a problem for the Vanity Ballroom (I'd have to go there and take a picture of the alley, and I don't really want to go there).  Chase Tower would also require a few more reference photos, so I wouldn't be able to finish it untill the next time I go downtown.  Chase Tower is across the street from the Penobscot building, and the vinton building, and down the street from this building and One Woodward Avenue.  Both of these are very likely for the future though.

[ACEfanatic 7]

Yes! We need more of these little downtown fillers...

-ACE

[st louis dude 6]

Why hasn't detroit modernized?

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks ACE

St. Louis Dude, while downtown Detroit's current office market isn't fantastic, there are still newer buildings.  The Compuware world HQ was built in 2003, 1 Kennedy Square was finished in 2006.  The new downtown YMCA was finished in 06 (or maybe 05).  There's a 30 story hotel/casino due for 2008, as well as two other casino complexes, which also have hotel towers (I don't remember how many floors the other two have).  And of course, newness isn't everything.  There are a lot of outstanding old buildings, and most of those that are vacant are either being rennovated now, or have plans in the near future, and buildings that have been occupied since they were built have been upgrading their services.

I'm just doing older buildings because not many other people are, because I'm good at them, and because I want to have them in my city.

[nofunk 1,933]

st louis dude: What a strange question. New York City, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, and a whole slew of older US cities have just as many old buildings as Detroit does. Why haven't they modernized? I have never heard of a city council declaring "Well, let's start knocking down buildings now... time to modernize!"

(P.S. I'm not picking a fight; just poking fun.)

Jason: What a charming building! I love how it's snuggled in between those two taller buildings. It has a great classical style.

BTW, you need to get out of my head! Because just last night I was thinking the same thing, so I started BATing the Park Apartments in Detroit!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

lol, that means I should get into your head more!  Our pm conversation is what got me in the moode to start a new project, so I guess it was mutual.

Ok, well, I've finished the two sides, and I'm about half way done with the roof junk.  No texturing has been done yet.

[6459978. 106]

Looking good! (As usual)

[Spike345 20]

This is amazing, Jason, why don't you B.A.T some of these smaller ones while you look for a major/other project? You're still chipping away at the City of Detroit (which i am actually DYING to visit lately) and you're spitting out these A-1 quality pieces.

[st louis dude 6]

Well,Detroit is an old city that is in ruins.

[ACEfanatic 7]

Originally posted by: st louis dude Well,Detroit is an old city that is in ruins.quote>

Do you ever have anything useful to say, other than spewing off random spam and requests?  Seriously, dude...

Looking great, Jason.  Looks like it'd make a nice little downtown bank.

-ACE

[Fledgeling 1]

Originally posted by: st louis dude Well,Detroit is an old city that is in ruins.quote>

 

How to you define modern city? Or one that is in ruins? Sounds like you have a pretty narrow defenition. Detroit is not the newest and biggest city, but neither is it the oldest city. It has a lot of abandond bildings (so do alot of cities), but it is not 'in ruins', as you say.

Jason, i am thrilled to see you working on a smaller building. Big bildings are great and all, but its great to see you working on something that can fit into all of my cities, not just the larger ones. Cant wait, and its great that the wait will be pretty short compared to the big buildings. Keep it up!

[JBSimio 152]

Wow Jason... I missed this new one. It looks great!

Now before the Detroit bashing gets too carried away... let's all consider a few things. Sure the city has had its problems, what major industrial city hasn't? Look at Cleveland or Pittsburg, just for examples. Then consider how much bigger Detroit is and you see it had a lot more to lose. Consider that at one point, Detroit ranked with Chicago and New York as the largest and most influential cities in the country. As for it's current state, it may still have a long ways to go, but believe me it is so much better now than even 10 years ago. Businesses are slowly coming back and making major commitments to downtown... new housing, while spotty, is being built inside the city limits again... the entertainment districts have gotten and continue to get massive development. If anything, Detoit is being held back more by its outdated reputation than by anything else. Not that there aren't other problems, but 50 year old history seems to be the city's worst enemy. Anyone who hasn't visited this year is probably talking about rumors rather than facts.

JB

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the support.  I didn't do a lot of work on the building today (today is chore and homework day), but I did finish the roof junk.  I still have the two blind walls to model, but that will only take a few minutes the next time I work on this building.  I thought I would have all of the modeling done last night, but like most things, it's taking a little longer than I though it would.  But this definitly won't be a 6 month BAT, lol.

Ardecila has been helping me out a lot with getting 3ds max all properly set up for rendering things, and I think I'll be able to render things soon (I just have to try out his latest suggestion, which I'm pretty confident will work).  All I have left to do on 211 is a few texturing tweaks, and the niteliting, so I don't think it will be too long before it's all rendered.  So things are starting to wrap up, which is nice, because I'm sick of working on this building, lol.

Ok, now even before this incident, I didn't like you St. Louis Dude, and I don't think anyone else likes you either.

Look through your posts.  Do they contribute anything at all to the community?  No, almost everything you post is either a request (which you've been told over and over to stop doing), and asking if things are done or not (which you've also been tolder over and over to stop doing).

Every time I go into chat, and you're there, you start some St. Louis vs. Detroit thing, and now you're doing it here (I guess I haven't been in chat in a while).  If you'd like to talk with me about Detroit, that's one thing, but I seriously think you're just trying to get on my nerves and to pick a fight.

And the way that you do that makes you think that your constant requests and "is this done yet?" questions are just meant to get on peoples nerves too.  But some of your comments are enthousiasticly (sorry for the spelling, lol) positive, so I don't really know what to think.

But what I do know, is that you're really aggravating.  If you'll stop the annoying things you do, then that would be awesome, and would make a lot of people happy.  If you won't though, just go away.

[Gecko_2006 1]

It's a very charming building. Simple, but nice. Not really much else to say about it. lol

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Ok, here's texturing progress.

What I still need to do:

- Fix the copper color, it's too grey.

- Texture the roof junk.

- Modify the upper parts of the limestone to make it look more like seperate blocks.

- Make and texture the back wall.

- Do the final textures for the reliefs (each one is different in real life, but I only used one texture here as a place holder).

- Do the textures for the doorway.  In real life, there is some fancy stuff there.

- Find where the light is leaking from.

- Make the entire thing less grey.

- Do the nitelites

- Scale it up.

I don't really know about scaling it up.  Right now it looks pretty good.  The only reason I'm having trouble deciding is because the front door is really short compared to everything else in the game.

For the nitelites, I want to have the windows glow like some of the Maxis windows do at night.  This building doesn't have any exterior lighting as far as any pictures show.  I don't know how to make them glow, but I'll poke around and see if I can find out.  If anyone knows, it would help things out a lot.

I'm very happy with how this is turning out so far.  I think when it's done, it'll be my most well made BAT.

Also, when I do the final render, I'm going to push the quality settings up a lot.  Things like the grooves in the columns will look better.

[Gecko_2006 1]

I'm not sure what you mean by glowing windows... If you mean, interior lighting, you can simply model the inside rooms (just walls, maybe a desk or two) and then put spot lights inside them where you want lights to be on... I don't really understand what you mean by glowing though. If the building is copper, then make the building more brown and put hints of seagreen (patina) here and there. If the building is limestone, leave it as it is. If the building is both... well... I can't help you there.

Your work on the building as a whole is fantastic though. The level of detail is almost too much!