Road Top Mass Transit (RTMT) - Development and Support

[rsc204 21,836]

@cobaltblue Firstly, I moved this to the correct thread, since RTMT is not part of the NAM.

If you've installed the MML for RTMT, none of the RTMT stops should appear in the menus, that's what an MML does, it hides things from the menus to avoid clutter. To get them to appear, you need to plop the special MML lot, run the game for about a month, then re-open the menu.

The MML lot should have a dark blue background and can be found inside the Misc Transit menu. Otherwise a duplicate will exist in the Landmarks Menu (near the end).

[cobaltblue 1]

@rsc204 OH MY GOD, THANKYOU! NOW IT WORKS! ..that's all I need to do? wtf... lol

I did read about putting up a "special lot" then wait for a month, but I had no clue what "lot" this is. Prior to posting on forum, I plopped a lot of new things, roads, stations.. practically everything I thought have to do with this special lot, then fastforward, but nothing happened and I felt like an idiot.

Also thank you for moving it to the correct thread. I still have hard time navigating because of ..these new abbreviations are overwhelming. I forget what is what.

[rsc204 21,836]

No worries, glad we could help you out .

[cobaltblue 1]

Umm, seems like I need another help. How do you bulldoze On Road bus stations?

And the game continues crashing everytime I open the menu for roads and highway. Or maybe it's more random. I'll observe some more.

[CT14 2,486]

Edit: beaten to it by @rsc204

The Menu Management Lot hides the actual lots from view until you plop the MML. After a month or so of in-game time, the actual RTMT lots then appear (probably in Miscellaneous Transport menu). If you don't want to use the MML you can just remove the MML file and leave the RTMT lot files, then they will show up all the time.

But instead of all that, I highly recommend ditching MML lots and using the DAMN instead to build your own in-game menu of custom content.

 

[rsc204 21,836]

51 minutes ago, cobaltblue said:

And the game continues crashing everytime I open the menu for roads and highway. Or maybe it's more random. I'll observe some more.

That's really not normal. First things first, is your game patched? If you have a digital edition, it probably is, unless it's from Origin. If you have a disk version, you need to install the main EP1 patch, I'd recommend also the additional NiteLighting patch. Those can be found here.

Could you also elaborate on the problem, for example, was everything working fine at some point or has the game always been unstable?

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

According to the RTMT readme PDF, " Stops and stations must be plopped over a network (road, street etc)". However, when I hover one of the RTMT bus stops over a road, it is pink, and the popup text says "already occupied". I can place its stops beside roads with the arrow facing the road, but plop-on-top functionality seems to be impossible.

The manual is no help, because it's telling me things that are contradicted by my immediate experience. Could there be more than one DPMO bus stop, and I picked the roadside one? Could I be encountering interference from NAM35, Ennedi slopes, CAM, PEG etc? If so, how can I tell?

I wish I had a debugger and could set breakpoints...

[matias93 7,535]

Try this: when plopping the bus stop on an empty tile, does the ground texture looks like a road? If not, you are using the roadside piece (which BTW, should show a 3D text signalling it as a roadside)

[CT14 2,486]

Also to be sure to eliminate other causes of CTD, there is the SC4Fix if you don't already have it:

 

[rsc204 21,836]

10 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

However, when I hover one of the RTMT bus stops over a road, it is pink, and the popup text says "already occupied".

=

9 hours ago, matias93 said:

you are using the roadside piece

You need to either install or select the correct network lot from RTMT, in this case Road, for which you'll have three options. Bus, Subway or Both. If you installed the MML when installing RTMT, all your lots will be hidden until you plop the MML lot in your city. It also takes about a month in-game from plopping before these options appear.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

I got SC4Fix last month, thanks.

The RTMT installation was confusing, so I may have screwed it up. There was lots of culling after pulling everything out of its zip file. RTMT in my plugins folder has two DAT files with "lot" in their names: RTMTV3_Lots_US.dat & RTMTV3_Lots_NonRoadTop_US.dat

I left out the MML file.

BTW, these are all dated 2007 and older. If I should throw away these old files and get something newer, please let me know.

What I was trying to place was the "DPMO" stop. I'll check appearances tonight.

[rsc204 21,836]

4 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

What I was trying to place was the "DPMO" stop. I'll check appearances tonight.

There is no such thing. DPMO may be the "prop" used upon the lots, but the set of lots is the same regardless.

4 hours ago, jeffryfisher said:

RTMTV3_Lots_US.dat

This file should contain the basic lots for Street, Road, OWR and Avenue networks. Try scrolling a little further down the Misc Transit menu, you might simply have missed them?

You must also have one of the "RTMTV3_Stations_NAMCapacity_XXX.dat" files installed, check you have not accidentally removed it.

If the lots still aren't there but those files are, almost certainly you do have the MML installed, or perhaps even the DAMN versions (selected during install), neither of which will appear in your menus normally.

[jeffryfisher 2,176]

I have NAM capacity CAM.

Indeed, my choice of the DPMO stop was a mistake (because its name matched the prop I'd chosen in the install). The on-road bus stops were WAY further down the menu list (below even the hole-diggers).

Now that I've found them, they're plopping mostly as designed... I just need to be careful about putting either of the avenue stops on a slope or too close to the end of its avenue. In those situations the avenue is broken and can't be rebuilt without deleting the stop.

[b22rian 153]

Just a quick update from me:

Work is continuing to press forward on the massive RTMT 4.0 stations build
.. and we are starting to near completion for this mod.., at least in terms of the Development/ build portions..

The problem right now is neither Pierre or I know much about the RTMT props ( which still need work), and even less about how to build the install EXE( which as most players know is quite complicated and involved) ..
 So therefore , I cannot give any kind of projected date for release, but I will now try my best to update this thread to give interested players some updates here..

thanks, Brian

[b22rian 153]

Hey guys,

I thought I would get interested RTMT people updated over here on our progress..

 

Quickie Update :

    Pierre, and I are having a RTMT meeting in the chat room tomorrow. So i am hoping were getting close to finalizing the RTMT station capacities 

The next step beyond that is to complete the Flup Pathing for the 3 - tile wide station sets ( AVE-6 + TLA-7)..
This is necessary in order to make sure the automa functions correctly when driving thru these stations or using UDI..
This would be the final build step concerning the actual stations and there function.
However a pretty large step would be also to BETA test these 3 - tile wide stations to see if they pass functionality over all the various type of FLUPS.. Which will be a bit of a time consuming testing endeavor ...

than a few days later..

 

Another Quickie Update :

                    Pierre and i finally got all the station capacities finalized,,
So now I have to make the necessary changes in the building exemplars using the Live Reader.. And than the stations and the game menus will have to be looked at to make sure this was all done correctly 

Also there was another item I forgot to mention on our " To Do List". before this can be released to the public..
We still have a fair amount of work to do with all the Left hand paths.. We have completed some but still there are many i think that need to be created as yet..

[catty-cb 4,411]

On 31/07/2017 at 10:13 AM, b22rian said:

....Also there was another item I forgot to mention on our " To Do List". before this can be released to the public..

We still have a fair amount of work to do with all the Left hand paths.. We have completed some but still there are many i think that need to be created as yet..

That should be easy both you and Pierre should still have access to the CJM Path Tools program as I put a copy into what was the RTMT Dropbox before the files got shifted to OneDrive that will allow you to change any right-hand path file over to left-hand then being able to copy it directly into the SC4 files.

CJM Path Tools will also allow you to

Quote

Panel 1 - Path File Data
------------------------
This panel provides for transferring path file data to/from PathTools using the clipboard, and for editing the text of the path file itself.
 
Path files are transferred to/from PathTools by using the clipboard as this enabled reasonably quick workflow when working with iLive's reader. Allowing PathTools to access the DAT files themselves would have been far too much work to implement.
 
This panel contains a text box where the Path file text can be edited and 3 buttons whose functions are as follows :
- Paste
Paste text from the clipboard into the Path file edit box
 
- Copy
Copy text from the path file edit box to the clipboard
 
- Read
Read in the path file data into the internal data structures used for displaying the plot and providing rudimentary editing. Attempts to round trip the data by regenerating the Path File Text from the internal data structures. If the round-tripped data differs significantly from the original then a warning is displayed allowing a choice of whether to allow the write-back. This prevents loss of data when the path or stop count hasn't been updated for example.
 
Panel 2 - Plot
--------------
This panel provides a graphical view of the data in the path file. Paths are drawn in various colours depending on the transport type to which they apply. Circles are drawn at the start of each path. Stop points are drawn as 'crossed-boxes'. Labels on each side of the plot indicate the side numbers. The radio buttons surrounding the plot allow choice of orientation. The 'UK' check box causes the car paths to be plotted as they will behave on the UK version of the game (car path directions reversed, UK rather than normal stop points active).
 
Panel 3 - Paths
---------------
Lists the paths in the file (using the first comment line as a label). These can be selected in the list, which causes them to be plotted in red. Four buttons alongside provide the following simple operations :
- Remove
Delete any selected paths
 
- Reverse
Reverse the direction of selected paths
 
- XMirror
Mirror the selected paths about the Y axis (ie reverse the X coordinates).
 
- Rotate 90C
Rotate the selected paths clockwise by 90 degrees about the origin (path file centre).
 
Panel 4 - Stops
---------------
Lists the stop points in the file (using the first comment line as a label). These can be selected in the list and will be plotted in red. The 3 buttons alongside allow the following operations :
- Remove
Delete the selected stop points
 
- XMirror
Reverse the X coordinates of the selected stop points (i.e mirror about the Y axis)
 
- Rotate 90C
Rotate the coordinates of the selected stop points 90 degrees about the origin (path file centre).

its fairly easier to use and its easy to spot if something is wrong as it shows you what the path is going to look like going thru a LOT.

-catty

[rsc204 21,836]

Thanks for the info, but I don't see any problem in flipping paths, I do a couple hundred for every NAM release. That said, I looked at that tool and it's fairly clunky IMO, I much prefer using either SC4 Path Creator or the editor inside SC4 Reader for working. As such I'd recommend them for anyone working with paths.

[b22rian 153]

Thanks for both your replies...

the main thing Pierre and I want to do is , do as much work as were capable of doing, so you can continue to use your time doing the great work you have always done for the NAM team...

[effeffeff 0]

On 12/5/2004 at 1:45 AM, cogeo said:

I have attached the model and lot files for the roadside bus stop.

It has been taken from SimCity.com lot exchange (author: Striling1).

 

Please check if you can help (please read the posting above).

 

Thank you in advance

 

How do I download this now?

[rsc204 21,836]

If you mean the attachment from that post, you probably can't any more. These were probably a very early version or even a preview release of RTMT. Since 2004, things have come a long way.

The current release of the RTMT package n be found here:

You will probably want to have this update too:

If you wish to have some extra stops for use with the GLR networks, then you should also install this add-on:

[cperfdb 0]

Any upgrades for NWM?

[Tarkus 6,932]

2 hours ago, cperfdb said:

Any upgrades for NWM?

NWM stations are a major component of what the RTMT Team is working on for RTMT 4.0.  That version has been in development for several years now.  Like most major transit modding projects, there is no release date or timeline for release, but the project is still moving forward.

-Tarkus

[plasmabub 1]

Hi everyone,

I am new to this community, and I have a question about RTMT. I just installed the most recent NAM v36 and RTMT 3.6, and start a new city. The RTMT stations function very well, but I just don't see the labels of the bus stations in the underground or traffic volume view at all.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but did I miss some steps or is there a switch I need to turn on?

[rsc204 21,836]

Amongst the installation files for RTMT is a folder models, which contains the basic props for use with them. You should have a subfolder "signs" in there, if those don't exist you won't see the models you are missing. So go back to the files you downloaded and copy this folder (signs), in its entirety into your plugins, that should fix it.

[plasmabub 1]

1 hour ago, rsc204 said:

Amongst the installation files for RTMT is a folder models, which contains the basic props for use with them. You should have a subfolder "signs" in there, if those don't exist you won't see the models you are missing. So go back to the files you downloaded and copy this folder (signs), in its entirety into your plugins, that should fix it.

Thank you. I do have the "Signs" folder in my plugins directory. Is there other possible reasons?

 

[plasmabub 1]

OK, I solved the problem myself. I didn't follow the installation instruction for RTMT 3.6 to delete the duplicate files in the folder. It must come from some conflicts of those files.

[licoricebomb 93]

I have a question regarding the fact that x1 width tile lots behind the road top stations cannot access the network- can pedmalls occupying the tile behind road top stations access them?

[APSMS 1,893]

@licoricebomb

Pedmalls are network tiles that are not affected by the issue with TE Lots that normal zoning has with them. In fact, the Pedmalls used to require a transit station (of any sort, TE-type included) to enable pedestrians to access the pedmalls.

 

So if you place pedmalls behind your TE Lots (like RTMT stations), they should be able to access the pedmalls just fine.

[rsc204 21,836]

Introducing RTMT Themes

Many of the upcoming features for RTMT 4 have been well documented already, so I wanted to introduce something completely new. Some changes under the hood will expand the Prop Customisation options which have always been a key feature of RTMT.

With RTMT 4, it will be possible to use unique Bus Shelter and Subway Stair props for different network RTMT lots. Options exist to use different props on the following networks:

• Street (including most SAM networks)
• Rural (i.e. SAM 3, 4 & 5)
• Road (Including OWR)
• Avenue
• GLR
• NWM (New RTMT 4 feature)

This does have a downside, because it does complicate the initial setup of RTMT. Since now you will need to select even more Prop and Model file combinations to populate the RTMT lots correctly. Those users who will appreciate the new customisation options will likely not be bothered by this. However, we are all too aware that some users already struggle setting up RTMT and just want the simplest setup possible handled for them during the install process. That's exactly where the new RTMT Themes come into play…

During installation of RTMT 4, you will be able to optionally choose to install one of three theme options:

• US
  Based around New York styled Bus Shelter, Subway Stair and Bus Sign Props, created by Gwail.
• EU
  Based on the Bus Shelter, Subway Stairs and Bus Signs originally created by Madawac and released previously as the Berlin Mass Transit set.
• UK
  A brand new set of Props based on London's TfL networks, created by me. Uniquely all the props in this set are HD rendered with the superior quality 3DS Max. This also includes a re-make of the original Subway Stairs created by McDyre, in addition to completely new Bus Shelter, Bus Sign, Ticket Machine and Phonebooth Props. A preview of these is below:
  

Those who do choose an RTMT Theme during install will get a set of pre-configured props, including all the necessary models (dependencies), allowing RTMT to simply work out of the box. The ancillary Props have all been carefully chosen to blend in with a given theme and where possible all models used support Night Lighting. For those looking for the simplest possible setup of RTMT, we hope that Themes will make this possible.

Of course, the original PropF (Family Prop) system from RTMT 3.6 will return, in fact it remains completely unchanged. Since use of Families doesn't meld well with the new PropS (Single Prop) customisations, it was necessary to keep them as before.

Additionally, we will also be shortly releasing a Developer Pack, so that others can make sets of RTMT props or adapt existing models to work with RTMT. We hope that this will enable for many more "Themes" to appear on the exchanges over time, allowing even more choices. I will also be releasing a special DarkNite set of the UK Theme, which will be a first for RTMT. This will appear around the time of the RTMT 4 official release.

Sadly, since the team does not have access to all the included models of RTMT as 3D Modelling files, the same treatment is not possible for the current US/EU sets. However, to be truly compliant with RTMT specs (v4 onwards), all new props should at least be in HD. Ideally, with MN and DN variants. Of course the last one is not possible to implement for all, since those without access to 3DS Max, have no way of making DN props. Rest assured too that these HD props will work for all SC4 players, since the textures are only 256x256px for props, there are no issues using them with software rendering.

[Tyberius06 12,209]

Thanks for the heads-up. It's going to be so much fun!

- Tyberius