The SimCity 5 Thread (Formerly "Is SimCity 5 Ever Coming Out?").

[bluespottedhorse 49]

Originally posted by: joshriddle

Originally posted by: bluespottedhorse

One simply has to look around and see the current development such as the latest Simcity Deluxe coming to ipad to see that EA is still working with Simcity. When they do release a new version of Simcity it may not even be called Simcity 5.quote>

Might be a good point. But that isn't to say that they are going to make an SC5. As a matter of fact, nobody knows what is going to happen. However I still doubt that they are actually going to put an SC5 on the market. I feel that they are trying to pump interest back into SC4.

quote>

Dear riddler,

It goes without saying that there are no garantees with anything.  However, the chances of another iteration are higher it will be made than the changes that it won't.  In this case, it's obviously higher because we have several successful predecessors in the simcity series.  Plus as I stated previously they've just finished porting Simcity Deluxe to the Apple Ipad.

Further, I'm not sure how EA could pump interest into SC4 without actually creating another deluxe version that completey upgrades the game or releasing a brand new one.  The only great changes I've ever seen done to SC4 was when all the talented players started to modd the game.

[joshriddle 29]

However, the chances of another iteration are higher it will be made than the changes that it won't.  In this case, it's obviously higher because we have several successful predecessors in the simcity series. 

 

Right.. but SCS came after SC4 which messed up the Simcity series big time. But still, knowing how greedy for money EA is, you never know what will come next.

Further, I'm not sure how EA could pump interest into

SC4

without actually creating another deluxe version that completey upgrades the game or releasing a brand new one.  The only great changes I've ever seen done to 

SC4

was when all the talented players started to modd the game.

I think I was proved wrong there. You are most likely right. Really no matter what, EA isn't going to grab the attention of the general public unless they release an SC5.

[halicem 16]

Looking back, SC4 was about the most they could do. It was brilliant, a marvel of applied computer science theories. The problem with SC5 is the next evolutionary step is that it would have to be in full 3D, but implementation of said theories in 3D is a bit harder and not all that polished. If they make a sequel in 2D, then what for? They already have SC4.

The grid-based logic is smart. Treat each grid as a separate automaton which interacts with precisely 4 of its neighbor automatons, which in turn interact... you get the gist. Its hard to transfer that kind of logic in a 3D world. The only logical way to replicate it, as computer science would suggest, is to turn everything into an object. In a simple example - a resident of your city could be considered an object of type sim, a family is an object with separate attributes but if composed of a collection of sims, a residence is another object is comprised of perhaps more than one families... etc. Whereas in SC4, because it's a grid, and each grid is an automaton, all the program has to do is process each automaton one at a time from the top left. Each automaton would have all the attributes in the game, does this automaton have a sim? Is it part of a residence? Does it drive a car? In a grid-less system, you can't rely on a specific construct because each object has direct influences on whoever inherits from it. On the object-oriented view of the world, did this sim lose a job? Then the program has to recalculate right then and there how it affects the other properties - it cannot wait, it doesn't have a schedule, lest the change in status be forgetton or lost forever. In SC4, if a change of status occurs, no worries - it will be picked up next time the program recomputes that automaton. In SC5, when a change of status occurs, then it has to act upon it, there is no logical system for picking it up later. Therein lies the problem, if everything were on-demand, and its a living and breathing city, millions of objects change status every second which ends up swamping the computer. Ever notice how on the latest games with the latest graphics, whenever big explosions happen, frame rate drops to pitiful! That's because all particles in the explosion is a separate object which the computer has to keep on recomputing where it's supposed to go and how it affects other particles in it's area. SC5 will be like that, only much worse because there are multiple cause and effect scenarios and multiple collections of collections of objects. And unlike explosions which could be turned down, there is no such setting in SC5 because you're talking about the logic of the city builder itself.

And that is the reason why we have Societies, City Life, perhaps even CXL(haven't played it much). They had to compromise and clearly define objects and actions because it made it logiclly easier for both the programmer and the computer to follow.

The 3D engine would have to be fantastic as well! When the community, say bixel, starts working and cranking out building, they will be amazingly detailed = more poly count. Drop it in a full 3D environment, then you have a problem cause on each frame, polygons would have to be recomputed and rerendered everytime unlike SC4 which has fixed isometric views so it only has to be rendered once. Animation companies rendering those fantastic animated movies are known to literally burn through clusters of computers just to get the render right - and let's face it, the SC4 community would settle for nothing less than gorgeous content! (that's also a bit of my problem with cxl, a bit too polygonous for my liking).

If they came out with SC5, then it could possibly be the 8th wonder of the world... Cause by nature, if they did it properly, then it's also extensible. Which implies it will scale properly. And be made complex properly and easily... Which basically means if you put it in a network of supercomputers, then you should be able to give birth to skynet!

just kidding, just ranting, just a slow monday night..

[bigthing 35]

If you look at another game that i use Trainz ... this has a full 3D environment, the system it works on is very simple... There is a central database that contains all of the content (called assets).

This database is fully open to the user and you can modify the config of any asset freely. To add something new (there is a massive download center called the "download station" much like the STEX but is not 3rd party) all you have to do is either click the download link in your browser which will open the database (which has an inbuilt download manager) or you can use the built in download manager directly. 

This kind of system would be ideal for something like "SC5" as it would most likely involve a lot of custom content.

[Fresh Prince of Wmbg 44]

 In my opinion, there were some good concepts from Cities XL series that would make the next city builder amazing if improve. I think the world map is superior than sim city 4 regions. It's much more realistic to me. However it was too simple; there was much more that could have been done.

For example I think trade would be engaging if were could  lay transpiration routes on the world map too. It would a better system than constantly raising capacity limit between cities. It would make more use of a world map and make it more important then just simply place/finding cities to create/load.

 Although it's disappointing to not have the freedom to decide the location of the city maps. Especially when the maps are in random and irrational locations on the planet( A fjord in the middle of the desert? Really Focus?)

I would suggest that the we able determine the location of our cities on the map. However the computer will generate a random map based on the terrain, climate and resources found locally( For example a hilly desert next to an large oasis would generate map with some groundwater with abundant oil resources and possibly rare arable land near the water source). We would choose the building and road sets for the map (possibly North American, Japanese, English, German, Dutch, Middle Eastern, Latin American, Chinese could be some choices).Then start playing on the city map.

The tokens are a better system that introduces real resource gathering for cities. It forced me to built more cities with the much need resources required in another. Then using excess resources for construction of blueprint was ingenious too. It reminds of the ancient-era city builders from the early 2000s by Sierra (Pharaoh,Caesar,Emperor,and Zeus). 

I would only suggest that there should be resources that are required to create some of original tokens like from the Sierra city builders.These resources would require certain buildings to create another resource used to crate a certain token.

For examples:

 

iron ore (mines)>steel (mill) >heavy industries products

                  steel>machinery(assembly plant)> manufacturing goods

                                machinery/ computers? > high-tech electronics

oil> gasoline (refinery required; cheap but very polluting)

agriculture>biofuels ( Ethanol plant required ;cleaner but more expensive)

I would also suggest that some resources be required to create/maintain major infrastructure projects between cities on the world map too:

2 steel tokens + 1 electric token = 25 km of high speed rail (on the world map)

 Some of these ideas may seem on the border to mircomanagement but thats what I would look forward to in the next city-builder. I hope the next city-builders will continue a least a few of these concepts and improve them too.

[Fresh Prince of Wmbg 44]

 In my opinion, there were some good concepts from Cities XL series that would make the next city builder amazing if improve. I think the world map is superior than sim city 4 regions. It's much more realistic to me. However it was too simple; there was much more that could have been done.

For example I think trade would be engaging if were could  lay transpiration routes on the world map too. It would a better system than constantly raising capacity limit between cities. It would make more use of a world map and make it more important then just simply place/finding cities to create/load.

 Although it's disappointing to not have the freedom to decide the location of the city maps. Especially when the maps are in random and irrational locations on the planet( A fjord in the middle of the desert? Really Focus?)

I would suggest that the we able determine the location of our cities on the map. However the computer will generate a random map based on the terrain, climate and resources found locally( For example a hilly desert next to an large oasis would generate map with some groundwater with abundant oil resources and possibly rare arable land near the water source). We would choose the building and road sets for the map (possibly North American, Japanese, English, German, Dutch, Middle Eastern, Latin American, Chinese could be some choices).Then start playing on the city map.

The tokens are a better system that introduces real resource gathering for cities. It forced me to built more cities with the much need resources required in another. Then using excess resources for construction of blueprint was ingenious too. It reminds of the ancient-era city builders from the early 2000s by Sierra (Pharaoh,Caesar,Emperor,and Zeus). 

I would only suggest that there should be resources that are required to create some of original tokens like from the Sierra city builders.These resources would require certain buildings to create another resource used to crate a certain token.

For examples:

 

iron ore (mines)>steel (mill) >heavy industries products

                  steel>machinery(assembly plant)> manufacturing goods

                                machinery/ computers? > high-tech electronics

oil> gasoline (refinery required; cheap but very polluting)

agriculture>biofuels ( Ethanol plant required ;cleaner but more expensive)

I would also suggest that some resources be required to create/maintain major infrastructure projects between cities on the world map too:

2 steel tokens + 1 electric token = 25 km of high speed rail (on the world map)

 Some of these ideas may seem on the border to mircomanagement but thats what I would look forward to in the next city-builder. I hope the next city-builders will continue a least a few of these concepts and improve them too.

[tomfoolery_79 85]

I think most of us are over thinking this. Maxis is a business owned by EA. EA is responsible to shareholders (owners) to make as much money as they can. There will be a Sim City 5. It's a matter of when not if. Sim City Societies was likely their Sim City 5. They probably got bored with the normal recipe of Sim City and wrongly assumed most of us wanted a change of formula as well. Years later now seeing their error, they will probably do Sim City 5 properly. How do I know? Read sentence #2 in this post. The fact that Sim City 4 has sold well (see below) and is STILL for sale 7 years later speaks volumes. It's been a top seller on Steam for goodness sake. There exists some VIP at EA who will pull up a report one day and see that Sim City 4 has sold "X" amount of copies and deduce that a sequel should be made to generate "X" more sales. Look at Civ 5.

Here is NPD's sales report from 2003. Notice Sim City 4 sold more than Call of Duty and Battlefield 1942.

1 - THE SIMS: SUPERSTAR EXPANSION PACK - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

2 - THE SIMS DELUXE - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

3 - COMMAND & CONQUER: GENERALS - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

4 - WARCRAFT III: FROZEN THRONE EXPANSION PACK - WIN - VIVENDI

5 - THE SIMS: MAKIN' MAGIC EXPANSION PACK - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

6 - THE SIMS: UNLEASHED EXPANSION PACK - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

7 - SIM CITY 4 - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

8 - CALL OF DUTY - WIN - ACTIVISION

9 - MS AGE OF MYTHOLOGY - WIN - MICROSOFT

10 - BATTLEFIELD 1942 - WIN - ELECTRONIC ARTS

[Ocram's Razr 964]

I might as well copy what I wrote in the Cities XL thread.

To sum things up, nothing will ever replace SimCity 4 and no city builder will ever be more popular than SimCity 4 unless it has features not included in SimCity 4. The popularity of SimCity 4 itself has been waning so the city builder genre as a whole is waning. Unless something changes the market (and culture) trends of videogames significantly, no new serious city building games will ever be released (by a profitable corporation) again.

About what you posted, 4 of the top ten sales for 2003 were in The Sims line (with the top 2 being The Sims SuperStar (features from SuperStar+Hot Date are included in The Sims 3: Late Night) and Deluxe (which has Both Sims 2 and Sims 3 copies)). EA's best selling franchise is The Sims so they marketed the hell out of it. They have The Sims 2, The Sims 3, loads of expansion packs and stuff packs, The Sims Store, and now the gimmicky Sims Medieval.

SimCity 5 was SimCity Societies so the next SimCity game for the PC (if they ever make it) would be SimCity 6, 6000, or have a gimmick (SimCity Medieval? SimCity Edo? SimCity Creator PC? Gangster SimCity?). There have also been SimCity Creator (Wii), and SimCity DS with SimCity Deluxe (iPad) coming soon.

If you want a fantastic SimCity style game, you might want to contribute to the OpenSource. Most of them accept programmers but there is one that also accepts pledges (to pay eventually) for professional programmers. It is the Metropolis Project (if you do not plan on spending, just put pledge amount = 0). http://themetropolisproject.org/

If you demand EA to release your SimCity 5 and get it for free (pirating), you are a pathetic level of evil that will never get your way.

[tomfoolery_79 85]

Originally posted by: Ilikeseattle

I might as well copy what I wrote in the Cities XL thread.

To sum things up, nothing will ever replace SimCity 4 and no city builder will ever be more popular than SimCity 4 unless it has features not included in SimCity 4. The popularity of SimCity 4 itself has been waning so the city builder genre as a whole is waning. Unless something changes the market (and culture) trends of videogames significantly, no new serious city building games will ever be released (by a profitable corporation) again.quote>

I disagree.  I see your points and they are valid, but I disagree.  I'm not saying SC5 is due out next year, it may be 5 years or 10 years, but it will come out eventually. 

Cities XL 2011 won't reach the level the Sim City series has in popularity, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

[§haÅ--Ñ€ §hÅŽo 370]

Originally posted by: tomfoolery_79

Cities XL 2011 won't reach the level the Sim City series has in popularity, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.quote>

It never will. SimCity created the city building genre so I doubt Cities XL will ever get to how high the SimCity series has.

[joshriddle 29]

Originally posted by: Sirron Kcuhc

Originally posted by: tomfoolery_79

Cities XL 2011 won't reach the level the Sim City series has in popularity, but I'm enjoying it quite a bit.quote>

It never will. SimCity created the city building genre so I doubt Cities XL will ever get to how high the SimCity series has.

quote>

I'm with you on that one. Some people say that they dont like CXL... or CXL '09 at least.

[TowerDude 2,187]

*cough*

ahh..you wished it was..it's a cover i made

[SimCity4IE 203]

You rose my hopes there for a minute ._.

[Timmystwin 201]

Could they not just upgrade the graphics and add some extra networks? Is it really that hard?

[jorgotaci 0]

personally, i've always been a fan of sim city! but what EA has done to the series is stupid! making it horrible for us but easy for beginners is no excuse! who here thinks sc4 is hard? personally i think sc4 is easy, and scs is hard...the game itself doesn't have good graphics! i love the sim city series, but if sim city 5 or 6 will be crap, many people and i would have to say goodbye to sim city forever

[Larks2242 251]

Hahaha @ Towerdude i gotta admit thats funny

[§haÅ--Ñ€ §hÅŽo 370]

Has anyone even tried to contact Maxis to see if they even plan on making one?

[jim 546 43]

Originally posted by: Sirron Kcuhc

Has anyone even tried to contact Maxis to see if they even plan on making one?quote>

That would be a problem as the Maxis today is different from the one that made SC4.  Will Wright who was the brain behind SimCity has left and is working on the Stupid Fun Club and a TV project.  I believe Maxis is only used now for developing "The Sims" games and similar products like Spore.  as such it is unlikely they will have plans for the series (although anything is possible).

[catty-cb 4,412]

Maxis is no more, EA Games latest offering is SimCity Creator otherwise known as SimCity DS 2

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SimCity_Creator

[SilverKiwi 0]

I don't think so it was a great franchise. Why did EA stop? Everyone Loved It. I think Maxis should reboot the franschise and make it like SC4. With some new features called Simcity The Reboot.

[Larks2242 251]

Originally posted by: SilverKiwi

I don't think so it was a great franchise. Why did EA stop? Everyone Loved It. I think Maxis should reboot the franschise and make it like SC4. With some new features called Simcity The Reboot.

quote>

Well they did reboot Medal of Honnor recently, however with Will Wright the creator no longer on board and the failure of the most recent release (SSC) EA just doesn't wanna take the chance and is instead focusing on what sells the most. After all it is a business, unforchantly its just not what EA sees as a selling franchise anymore. There is always hope that when EAs rights expire someone else will pick it up kinda what Activision did with the James Bond series.

[DustyLee23 6]

To Larks comment on  EA's rights expiring, about when would that be? I mean I think many of us may be content with our own little additions but in the back of all of our minds we really want all of our ideas included in a new, more superior game. The simcity topic is not the only reason I'm not a big fan of EA, they have changed other games for the worse as well. I was not very happy when they changed the format of the NASCAR games. I use to love playing four player races on one console with my brothers and friends, then all of a sudden, they changed it. Maybe some day our hopes will come true and a new Simcity will replace SC4 as the better, but for now, I'll go back to building my cities contently

[Denon333 0]

To my mind:

SC4: Great! Expandable city, into a region that is, expandable mod-wise, though I hate it when one to two gb of software I mostly don't use slows down my com.

CXL 2011: OK, new features, not many from CXL 2009, though. Oh, and less buggy issues. Not SC5, though.

SC5: Hoping to see it, but if not, then I'll see if I can contribute to those open-source groups.

So, yeah. That's just about it then.

[kingdiz_55 12]

Financially speaking, though, if Simcity 5 DOES come out, EA's going to have around $7 million if every member of ST buys a copy at around $20.

[Larks2242 251]

Originally posted by: malibu_man

To Larks comment on  EA's rights expiring, about when would that be? quote>

It would not become public domain for at least another 20 years, and that is only if EA doesn't decide to extend the license.

Originally posted by: kingdiz_55

Financially speaking, though, if Simcity 5 DOES come out, EA's going to have around $7 million if every member of ST buys a copy at around $20.quote>

Well it wouldn't be priced at $20, it would most likely have a retail price of $59.99 as most new games are.

[Z77 3]

Originally posted by: Larks2242

Originally posted by: malibu_man

To Larks comment on  EA's rights expiring, about when would that be? quote>

It would not become public domain for at least another 20 years, and that is only if EA doesn't decide to extend the license.

Originally posted by: kingdiz_55

Financially speaking, though, if Simcity 5 DOES come out, EA's going to have around $7 million if every member of ST buys a copy at around $20.quote>

Well it wouldn't be priced at $20, it would most likely have a retail price of $59.99 as most new games are.quote>

And Seeing how games are gradually increasing price, If say, in 20 years the rights expired, and someone else rebooted it, It could run around $80 a copy. seeing how fast the community is growing, we could have around 600,000 members. which would mean a profit of 48 million USD

No..in all reality, even if all of simtropolis bought a game, it still wouldnt be enough. Sales have to be in the millions worldwide, and unfortunately, People would much rather play a mindless FPS or a hack-and-slash, then play a strategic video game. Why do you think City-Builders and RTS' For the most part, kinda stink? Because people dont wanna think when they play a game. Besides the fact of Starcraft(which, why it sold was because its a Blizzard game.) RTS' and City-builders dont have a huge following. Plus, Most people who buy those games are smart, and wait till the price goes down, or the expansion packs come out. 

Well..okay, maybe not the last sentence. If a true sequel came out to SC4, id buy it at first sight

[avrelivs 24]

..personally, i think the issue has to do with the game-engine. SC4 uses a grid-based engine with four angles....and most newer city-building games are taking a 3-D approach....both have benefits and downfalls..

[Larks2242 251]

Yea, i don't see sim city working in 3D, but that is more for consoles, i haven't really see anything that is 3D for PC.

[Tysons4 68]

i just want new simcopter that allows you to control and see all the vehicles, buildings, and networks from an entire simcity 4 regions folder... Like grand theft auto, but instead of playing in Liberty City, you are in your simcity 4 region

even give it a mature rating

[gianthaiku 5]

Simcity 5, the stuff of dreams. Seriously, there is nothing that we can do about this situation, Will Wright has left Maxis, who are working on Darkspore and EA are too busy catering for the people who buy thier crap. If EA ever comes around these parts, they won't care, they'll just make another crap game. There is nothing we can do but wait, even if that means waiting a decade.