Harishna's BATs

[SimFox 802]

[harishna 847]

haha love those kind of comments SF hope I will get only happy faces this time

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I have also been working in the Rectoria tower, I had to take out some details as it was getting to much for my computer...anyways most of the modeling is finished, I need to work in some of the textures, add roof junk and model the lot. The building is sunken in reference to the street so there is a plaza that gives access to the main entrance I have decided to I add this plaza (it is currently in a draft stage).

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  Edited March 13, 2011 by harishna  

[SimFox 802]

The tower, I'm afraid, well the whole building looks underscaled... The floor height is like 10-12 steps hight about 2,8 m? It's realy not enough for building to look properly scaled in game the floor height should be no less that 4 m

[harishna 847]

Well the floor height is 3.65 exactly, so it may be a little bit underscaled, the stairs definitely are over-scaled, the plaza it is just in a very general draft stage, I made it in a rush to see how the whole thing could look, so the steps are not properly scaled... You reckon I should re-make the tower?

[SimFox 802]

I'd say you have to do your measurements again! It clearly not 3,65m in your model.

Here take a look:

the "measuring stick" is 3.65 in height. You see how it taller than one floor of your tower. In fact 3,65m seem to be the height of the podium to the right. With 18 steps this makes each of them about 20cm tall - actual life height is somewhere around 16-18cm.

But even these 3,65 may well be not enough, if we assume 1,33 multiplier then the "real world" floor height is just 2,75m. And that is floor to floor. Adding (or to be precise - subtracting) to this number 30 of so cm for ceiling itself will leave you with just 2,45m of actual ceiling height in a bare room. Add to it flooring and some sort of stuff on ceiling and you have less than 2,4! Another question you should ask yourself - how is air circulation system is arranged in the building? Is it just below the ceiling like normally in office buildings? if that is the case it will take another 50 (at the very least) cm...

But these are real world numbers. And then we have game realities. Typical office building floor is between about 5 m tall. this (with 1,33 multiplier taken into account) gives sweet 3,75m - close to typical office building floor height of 3,6-3,8 m.

[harishna 847]

It is weird as I just measured it again it is supposed to be 3.65 fearing to sound dumb could it be that the image has been shrink? Sorry if this sounds stupid...

[SimFox 802]

Hm... may be something wrong with my measurements... I'll check them again...

PS...

Well in terms of Pixels I was... x2 times, cause I've blown up your image 2 times to get things more visible. So you should divide it all (pixel numbers) by2. but in terms of actually meters things are accurate. The measuring stick is 3.65 m tall rendered at zoom5. So your floor does seem to be about 3 meters tall...

Have you scaled your model?

  Edited March 14, 2011 by SimFox  

[harishna 847]

Well I just checked it again creating a 3.65m box and it matches the size of the floors...I could swear it is because I am screwing up things while posting the image as it is not the same size as the one in my computer...I think is how I am posting it, I am going to ImageShack uploading the file and coping the link for forum post. Anyways I may start from scratch, seems as if I like to do that, hehehe, lets see if I can make my modeling more efficient this time..

Q: how you guys model your windows do you make em planes or 3d? and for the "interior", do you add a new plane o detach a plane from the window panel? feedback on this would be really appreciated as I am trying to be more efficient on how I do thing...

  Edited March 15, 2011 by harishna  

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hello, I just wanted to pop in to tell you that I think the library is looking splendid now!

The trees really make a huge difference - and I'm not only referring to the difference between the types of trees, but to the overall appearance of the building. Everything looks so much more complete, pleasing and harmonious with some flora around it! The only tiny suggestion I have is that you might try adding some more variety to the grass material/texture you are using. Especially around tree trunks, grass often has a very hard time growing, so it would be realistic to have some patches of bare earth shine through the grass there, or some twigs and leaves fallen from the trees lying around... the effect wouldn't have to be very strong, but it might add yet another bit of realism.

Apart from that, the only tiny doubt that remains concerns the topmost roof section on your latest screenshot. It's still hard to tell where the main roof of the tower ends and where that topmost roof slab begins because there is no visible seam; the textures flow smoothly into another.

These are just tiny observations, though, and all in all I think that it has been well worth all the additional work to make this BAT really shine. You can really be proud of everything you have achieved with this building.

[SimFox 802]

yep it seems that your images are scaled at the upload time.

the original (cropped):

yours on imageshack:

[Cockatoo 2,256]

And I thought the Gmax version was good... Damn that is one nice looking BAT!

[harishna 847]

TWrecks: Thanks for the comments, I agree with your suggested changes so I made the changes but don't have an image to show it takes lot of time to render but I promise I will show one, I guess now I need to work on the lights...

Cockatoo: Thanks very much for stopping by, I am glad you like it!

SimFox, Thanks for checking that for me, I already started a new version of the building any way , here is how it looks at the moment will deal with the plaza once I am done with the building (still need to work on the model and the textures).

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  Edited March 26, 2011 by harishna  

[harishna 847]

TWrecks: Thanks for the comments, I agree with your suggested changes so I made the changes but don't have an image to show it takes lot of time to render but I promise I will show one, I guess now I need to work on the lights...

so here is the library I added some dirt to the base of the trees and some burnt grass marks as well, I don't see anything else I can do to this one besides starting the night-lights..

[Vlasky 1,803]

Just wanted to say you're doing great job and you have quite interesting project here. I've been following since the beginning, but haven't been able to help in anyway. Posting just to express my support

[harishna 847]

Thanks very much Vlasky your support is gratefully welcome

So I finished with the library, still need to add the night-lights...but that should be easy (sarcasm)

I have been working in the Rectoria tower for while, I haven't finished the tower itself but I recently turned my attention into the lot. My main concern is the elevated plaza, in real life is bigger and is not really elevated but rather at street level and the building is sunken but to make game friendly I did it the opposite way, so I had to add some stairs to the west, I made them a little bit shorter than the ones at the south (based in the real life ones) to make it take less space from the plaza (otherwise the plaza looks ridiculously small) I think I have to fill the lot to the south with some trees and maybe a parking lot to make it look less empty, comments welcome

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Hmm... no offense, but somehow I have my difficulties with the lot. That raised plaza looks really dominant, it almost cancels out the base section of the actual building. I really think that a sunken lot would look rather cool and more logical, but of course it's easy for me to nag and complain when I'm not the poor guy who's stuck with all the work. In any case, please don't take my opinion as a negative comment, because I really admire your dedication and the superb quality level your BATs have reached. No matter what you decide, I'm sure you'll eventually come up with something mouth-watering.

EDIT

Hey, wait a second!

Come to think of it, since this building is probably intended to be plopped anyway, you could leave it to the player to raise the terrain along the front side to match the plaza to the street level, much like HKABT did with the Pacific Place complex. First you plop it, and then, since the base is a prop that overhangs a small core lot, you can safely terraform around the back sides and make the surrounding streets match the height of the base where they touch it.

[thingfishs 416]

Looking great Harishna!

Sorry to go against TWrecks here (nothing like contrary advice eh? ;-)), but I really like the plaza as far as the overall look is concerned, as well as the raised/lowered factor. My only problem is the repetition - but as you suggest, some trees would help soften it up nicely. Plus they'll be easy to place this time...

[harishna 847]

Twrecks: I never take your comments as negative , and as a man of science I am always open to be criticized (or at least I have learn to nod my head and pretend ),but you are right the plaza dominates the view I hope that by changing a couple of textures textures and adding some details that are still missing like trees, a flag, a walkway will help break with the monotony and take the attention away from the plaza. I also checked the building you suggested it is an interesting idea but I am not sure if will able to make it work as I will have to add a slope to the whole thing so it doesn't look weird and this may mean modifying the building to make it sit properly, it you got an idea on how to make it work without altering the building I will be delightful to hear it.

Thingfishs: Thanks, thanks for stopping by! I am still going to add some more details so I hope this will help make it less repetitive and monotonous..

I noticed that the imaged I posted before is gone (I guess I will stop using Imageshack) so here is an updated image with very little changes from the previous version I have been very busy. I just made some work on the rooftop I think I will take out the transparency from the glass doors in roof access.

Q: Whats the difference between using convert into editable poly and apply the modifier edit poly? I used to use the later as I can always go back to the original shape.

[SimFox 802]

It looks great, but you would really need to solve problem with tiling of the textures on teh pool bottom as well as front plaza at the second image.

Another must is unwrapping of the stairs - simple planar or box mapping wouldn't work there - notice that odd looking effect on the second image

[T Wrecks 10,209]

Twrecks: I never take your comments as negative , and as a man of science I am always open to be criticized (or at least I have learn to nod my head and pretend ),

Well played.

I also checked the building you suggested it is an interesting idea but I am not sure if will able to make it work as I will have to add a slope to the whole thing so it doesn't look weird and this may mean modifying the building to make it sit properly, it you got an idea on how to make it work without altering the building I will be delightful to hear it.

Well, in case of your building the only raised part of the lot would be that plaza - and it would look less massive because the stairs towards the edge of the lot would no longer be required. The player would have to raise the ground at the side of that plaza so the road is level with it. On the other three sides of the lot, everything could remain where it is. As soon as I'm home I'll see if I can make a simple GIMP mockup to illustrate what I mean.

EDIT

OK, here it comes - phear my 1337 GIMP fail-skillz!

[Jasoncw 11,841]

Harishina, can you do a quick sketch or model showing exactly how it is in real life? Like the other building, it's hard to find reference material on this.

[harishna 847]

I like your idea Twrecks it look less complicated that what I had in mind I was imagining sinking the rest of the model in reference to the plaza, lifting the plaza is way less complicated, maybe I can even make it slop friendly....like Aaron did with his apartments, or maybe it can be as simple as making the stairs on the street side smaller just make the plaza cover the rest...I have to think about (thanks lots for the diagram).

yes Jason there is not that much to work with, there are a lot of images looking to the tower from the ground level but very few panoramic views of the lot this is the best I got...

  Edited March 31, 2011 by harishna  

[Heblem 600]

I have never been to UNAM, but it looks youre getting it almost perfectly, do you work or study there?

I like the effort youre giving to this bat, every details, i hope you plan to make this as a modular university it would be a great addition

IMO is best to make an underground section for parking lot than elevated, due the player is lazy to modify the terrain for plopping, its better when it has to be all flat,

As for textures, i suggest to desaturate abit the roof and plaza texture, comparing to RL picture yours looks like the campus in the 60's when it was new...i could be wrong

Saludos! luego hago un BAT de México

  Edited April 1, 2011 by Heblem  

[harishna 847]

Heblem: thanks for stopping by, I study in Australia, but my family is linked to the UNAM, my dad works there, my brother studies there, even I studied there for 1 year, but mainly is because I like it, I think is a weird privilege for a "not so planned city" like Mexico to have this HUGE campus full of green areas, with interesting buildings, and lot of stuff to do, it has an endemic botanical garden, a sculpture garden in the middle of what was a lava flow, the football stadium, museums, concert halls....

I'll take your word on those Mexican BAT's, it seems as all the Latinamerican creations virtually stopped

Anyway to the model: As Heblem suggested I de-saturated the roof and plaza textures around 25%, I am not sure if the roofs look better, I also added some more details to the plaza and made the "not real" stairs shorter to make them dominate the view less as T-wrecks suggested. Even that I like T-wrecks idea about the elevated plaza I think Heblem is right players tend to be lazy so the moment they read they have to terraform something I am sure some will not bother just even looking at it... But I hope that now that the lot has more details the plaza doesn't look as bad...I also added the parking lot (there is still some details I need to add to it). There are still a few things here and there I think I am getting there with this one.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

PS: there is supposed to be a Mexican flag in the fountain flagpole but haven't seen then nationalistic discussions that flags tend to generate I am not sure if I should add it or just change it for the University emblem, or just leave the pole with no flag..

  Edited April 3, 2011 by harishna  

[gutterclub 2,729]

You're a lucky person to hail from Mexico City and study in Australia..2 of my favourite places and both full of architectural gems..although I much prefer the library to the tower (aesthetically) it is starting to take good form now, can't wait to see them both finished.

[Jasoncw 11,841]

How's your poll removal going? I tried removing it myself but idk if my moderator powers let me do that, or if I'm just getting the same error as you are. You can try PMing an admin though, they might be able to help.

I don't think anyone cares about flags, except that they don't like to see recognizable ones, if they don't imagine their city to exist in the same country as the flag being displayed. I think your building is a special case though, since the architecture and the murals are so clearly Mexican. You would already have to create a reason for this building to be in a non-Mexican city. I don't know if changing the flag would make this building any less Mexico specific.

The concrete material that fills the L shape made by the tower and the main building (the surface in the lower right area of the most recent render) doesn't seem to match the texture. The texture looks like a rough and dirty concrete, while the material looks sort of reflective and somewhat polished. I would reduce the reflectivity and the glossiness if it's meant to be a rough concrete. You could also increase the Roughness. Or if you want it to be a cleaner more polished surface you could find a different texture to use.

The stairs seem to go for a really longtime without having any landings.

This is a tough building.

[harishna 847]

thanks GC I love Australia and Mexico, they are so very different...I love Mexico for all it has to offer, the culture, food, the history, and the land I just love the diversity of environments, mountains, deserts, forests, coastal areas, the jungles, but hate the problems of being a developing country. Australia also has a lot of things to offer it is a young diverse country with a lot momentum, it is indeed a country that is looking into the future, and the land is also wonderful, the Great Barrier Reef, the bush, the jungle to the north, the desert, the forests in Tasmania, etc.

Jason: No luck with the poll either..I guess I will PM an admin...

You read my mind about the stairs I already changed them, just haven't got the time to show a new render. About the concrete texture I don't like it either it, I was looking for something that looked like worn concrete blocks, I guess I will play with it or maybe just replace it with a better one.

I was also thinking in changing the blue tiles in the main tower. Currently I am using a rectangle to which I applied one of the defaults tiles materials that comes with 3dsmax that I adjusted the best I could, I don't like that the mortar is too visible and I don'0t see any reflections, I have increased the IOR to 20 and still nothing...In the real life building the tiles appear to be highly reflective and the mortar or divisions between them are almost unnoticeable. I was thinking that I can make each tile a polygon from the rectangle and then follow a similar approach to what you use for the reflective panels, but I am not sure if its worth adding so many polygons for something that may not be so noticeable...

  Edited April 6, 2011 by harishna  

[harishna 847]

quick update (still need to change the concrete texture that Jason indicated).

[harishna 847]

While I get some feedback on the tower I started playing with the night lights for the library I have a couple issues, first the light is leaking through the roof, I don't know why. Second I ma using the self illuminating option for the tiles above the windows of the ground floor, but they are coming out way to bright I think, I am using the same map used for the texture, should I just use a color instead of a bitmap?. Also the omni in the entrance is producing some weird shadows on the columns, it almost seem as they were floating when they aren't. Finally the red warning lights on top seem to be a little bit dim I am using the self-illuminating option for these.

Thanks

[Jasoncw 11,841]

First I would turn on glare, which there's a button for in the latest BAT4Max.

Self illuminated materials have intensity, which you can either define as units or as a unitless multiplier (1.0 by default). Unitless is best since you're not really working in a literal physical lighting situation. So for the red, just up the intensity, it will get brighter, and (if glare is on) the glare will get more intense.

What exactly are the tiles? My impression before was that they were opaque. Are they actually glass tiles?

If you don't have any furniture or anything inside, I would think about using a self illuminated night window texture to simulate the windows instead, since it will give a better impression of stuff being inside. My blog explains it. Basically though, instead of replacing textured glass with self illuminated glass, you would model a plane behind your actual glass, and you would apply the material to that, and you would hide this plane during the day render.

For your light leaking problem, try adding another plane in between the roof and the light.

For doing lighting in areas that actually have a large number of small lights (in other words, areas where you wouldn't want distinct shadows being cast from things), you can use a mr sky portal and a mib_blackbody together. Search google for a tutorial on how to unlock the mib_blackbody (it basically allows you to control the color of the light by light temperature) and use it with the sky portal.