nybt-forum-threads NYBT BAT Thread

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

Simfox joined the project? Oh man, this is going to be good !

[cmdp123789 710]

Jumthefence: YES!!! I mean... I exported the model from sketchup in 3.ds format... and then I tried to import it on the BAT... but for some reason it says application error... and then it crashes... so I have models in sketchup but I cant get them to BAT... I have sketchup pro 7 which I think its the latest version??? dont know... I will open one probably.. cause then again... I have to retexture it... but any idea??

[PBGV103 729]

Thank God for raytrace!    What do you guys think?  The size is off but I'll rescale the whole thing when it's ready to be exported.  Leaving it this size makes the numbers easier right now.    This is zoom5 in HD should I export the final in HD?

[Amthaak 1,501]

Hi Guys! That's what I call  thunder lightning speed improvements! Congrats to all of you! Bat team of the year!!??

[SimHoTToDDy 2,938]

Generally HD is only useful for small things, like props or the occasional bus station. HD tends to double or triple the file size, making even small buildings well over 1MB, often more. So no, don't export in HD.

[PBGV103 729]

Hahaha ok. HD previews have been super fast and look great but I can se how the render could exceed the stex size limit. Maybe I'll do both, upload the regular one and offer the HD version to my fellow NYBT members. How does that sound?

[SimFox 801]

PBCV103:

Let me get few things straight for you.

1. HD

As Todd said it is intended ONLY to some of the very smallest bits and pieces in game.

Generally any improvement should, well, improve. HD is an improvement ONLY at Zoom6. At this zoom you would never ever not just see building in it's entirety, you would, on most monitors see such a tinny portion of it that you wouldn't be able to make heads or tails of it. This said, keep in mind that nothing is free, apart of a cheese in mouse trap. And in case of HD it isn't really your render time, frankly nobody gives a flying bird for how long it takes you, or me, or next guy to render thing out. You may have some 10 yo piece of antique, or a huge reneder farm tacked under your bed. It doesn't matter a single bit. What matter is only final result. Files do get much bigger. And the bigger the building is the bigger the files get. Much of the bulk of the SC4Modle size is FSHs textures. Picture size roughly depends on the pixel count. "HD" or Zoom6 - that would be far more appropriate name, is 2x the size of Zoom5. That means it is ^2 number of pixels. You do the rest of the math. But in my book not even this is a most crucial factor. What is, on the other hand is the total lack of any rational for it. In game you will never really see it that way - how often do you run the game in Zoom6? And this glorified view comes at teh expense of the quality of Zoom5.

Game ONLY have 5 zoom levels. So in order to display 6 something had to be created artificially, and on the fly. In classic "SD" way it is zoom6 - it is simply Zoom5 blown up 2x. In "HD" way it's Zoom5 which is just a 2x shrunk zoom6. This is a key point to judge should or should not something be exported at HD. For tinny props even zoom5 view doesn't really contain any info to make them legible. So when this is still blown up further for Zoom6 it becomes total mess. So here advantage is obvious. You get pretty good view at Zoom6 and virtually as good (although quite a bit crippled) Zoom5. That is because to star from it was no good at zoom5! Only because of that.

With buildings, on the other hand, there is no advantage what so ever. At zoom6 building can't be see the way God/common sense had intended it. At zoom5 you come to pay for this nonsense - perfectly good view is ruined by barbaric reduction of the view - 3/4 of the pixels are simply thrown away. Without any intelligent anti-aliasing and all that stuff Photoshop does so well. Here you have absolutely crude and destructive process. It is Particularly pointless in Max, since it it (unlike GMAX) there very competent anti-aliasing filters are available and utilized by LetThereBeLight.

So PBVD103 and Seraf, please, please think once again if you really want to release your stuff in HD. Or even to show it here to us and even to your self, in that way - it is, in a way cheating - in preview it will look far better that finally in the game.

2. Raytrace material.

Dump it like an radioactive waste! It is a of Scanline. And just like Scanline had been put to rest (you, know it does live at the farm upstate and run there in the fields with other renderers of the past, they play and play and render all day long) so should Raytrace materials be!

Mental Ray would render them, sort of. Sort of because although you would see some effect, what you get is far from physically accurate. and In most cases it will take FAR FAR longer. This effect will grow exponentially with the complexity of the scene. The reason is that this material is not optimized to Mental ray tracing algorithms, and particularly FG. And Mental Ray is not (anymore since Max9) optimized (if it ever been) for Raytrace materials.

And although Mental Ray isn't 100% physically accurate, as some of so called unbiased rendereds claim -say Fry or Maxwell, it is none the less follow basic principles of reality - namely the law of preservation of energy - eg that no object can radiate more energy than it receives (unless it is a light source, of course). And that accounts for everything -highlight, defuse, reflection etc. Mental ray own materials follow this rule. So use them. Max comes with a sizable variety of them - those are denoted by yellow balls in material editor. But in all fairness the one and only material you you'll need in 995 of times is Arch&Design material. Either it you can make ANYTHING and it comes with whole bunch of presets that will get you started. Although if you really want it good you would need to tinker with it.

You said you were searching forums for tutorial and info on materials etc. Well sorry to say but BATing community by en large is very backward. And as such isn't really a source of any info. It had suck with GMAX for years and to the point where may insist on it being a right. General atmosphere of padding each other on the back - anything else is considered NOT A CONSTRUCTIVE criticism - created environment where innovation was never really welcomed and often had to be pushed against the wind, so to say , even when perfectly good tools were available. There are so may expamples of it all around! If nothing else take BAT4 Max for years it was nothing more the gmax on steroids with difference only quantitative - namely being somewhat faster, but not quantitative - same crappy lighting, rendering algorithms, materials etc, etc

If you want info go to real 3d sites and forums and see what people do there! People even invented their own language - "transparent/reflective glass texture", semitransparent glass" - utter nonsense, build a cocoon around themselves shunning anything new.

3. Material editor.

Well I see you use new Slate design. I myself personally hadn't move on to Max 2011 yet, although I had got it. I still have my perfectly fine Max 2010 license (btw I use Design version of both) and in Max2011 there have been some graphical glitches (at leas on my system when the viewports turn unnaturally bright and then back to normal). So I haven't gave it a go yet. Some other packages had been using this sort of graphical setup for Mat Editors. and that have been 3rd party plugins for Max as well. To my eye it is not all that efficient way to set material - space it takes on screen and luck of any meaningful presentation of data. Instead a lot of space is given for balls, strings and other bells and whistles. But when you really need some precise control and info you are switch back to old style editor that opens right there in a subwindow. Well, what's the point? it just takes tons more of screen real estate and doesn't accomplish anything more. But as I've said I haven't really used it yet so I may be wrong...

You can switch back and forward between Slate and classical interface btw:

this is how it opens by default in Max2011, but there is a switch hidden in teh same icon - just press it and hold for a moment and you'll see this:

once you select icon with a smaller (you see even here is a hint what will save your screen real estate) window next to the MatBall mateditor will turn into a classic one.

 

4. Tutorials...

Well have any of the people looking for them tried to look here:

and generally Max help. I mean you don't even need to go and look for sites and communities dedicated to 3d!

Sgt Pepper:

As I have said before I'm really proud of you! You didn't get simply satisfied with what you were given by default and strive to make glass better in GMAX. And I must say you have succeeded! It is far better that any glass made by anyone in GMAX BAT - far closer to the faking the real thing! Soon you could go and by and beer with it in a corner store :-) it's start to look that real!

About all that dark/not dark debate. My opinion it was dark and may be still is. May I ask you - do you use laptop?

You could still improve your glass by working o a texture in Photoshop or some such. Glass generally have a very high contrast and defined reflections. Also pure glass (not coated9 produce absolutely color neutral reflections. Gass as such has NO color - that is no defuse color at all! No mater what "color glass" you're talking about - glass always reflects full spectrum. So whatever light falls on it is reflected in the same very proportion of RedGreenBlue. What mixes some "glass color" in is partial refractions - meaning light goes through glass and then getting distoreted/colored, hitting something there reflected (defuse reflection would alter the light color once more) travels back through glass and tinted at the process again. Once it gone through it gets mixed with color neutral reflected portion of the light that hit the glass in the first place and continues its way to your eye. All this follows the laws of preservation of energy - total amount of light reflected (be it sharp reflection what we commonly call the reflection, or defuse reflection - what we commonly call color) in total can not exceed total energy of light that hit the glass in the first place. What it meas in practice is that you can't have a glass that is very clear and reflective at the same time - eg you can't see through mirror.

All this should be kept in mind when one sets faking glass by making a texture - TEXTURE btw is that bitmap you make, as opposed to material that has specific properties how it interacts with light. With some dedication and experience this could well be faked. And Maxis default glass texture is a pretty good example of professionally done fake. It is very convincing!

But glass have one more feature that is more difficult to fake in GMAX BAT. Namelly that it's reflections are Fresnel ones. EG they appear weakest when you look at glass straight on (at 90 degrees) and get stronger and stronger the more your glancing angle approaches 0 or 180 degrees. At 0 and 180 glass becomes perfect mirror. Here is a very handy calculator of reflective indices mind you this also depends on temperature - that's why tropical seas are so much bluer and arctic so much darker.

Of course this info is of use for users of Max - on how to make their glass, or at least where to start with it. For GMAX I'm not sure how one can fake this effect.

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

SimFox as much as i love your building 125% more then the others, it's been remade like 30(2 actually) times.

And does anyone have a clue what kind of glass textures i need ? this is my only obstacle stopping me from finishing, that and the roof ... and the fountain

[PBGV103 729]

Update:  do you guys like this?  how are the reflections?  I used a google earth shot and lightened it so it wouldn't be so dark.  I think it will look much better when the rest of the building is there 

Edit: I think I need something better than a clip from google earth.  I'm not sure how to get truly great reflections without modeling the compete surroundings 

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

I'm still trying to put my finger on this building, I think I've seen it before.

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

I wanna try to do a test export or whatever, bottom line is, i wanna see my building ingame and stuff so i can compare it with similar size buildings so i know the scale is correct of similar, how do i do that ?

Where do i export my BAT

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

It Seen that I have miss alot of stuff. Great Job everyone.

[PBGV103 729]

Did some math today: If I could make one model a day it would take over 800 years to make every building in NYC.  Kinda overwhelming, huh? 

Big hint this time:

[Sgt Pepper 864]

PBGV103- Is that that modern building next to the Chrysler Building? AH I forgot what it was called....the one with the top that's wider than the rest of the building?

GuerrilaWarfare- To export your BAT, go to the BAT Tab(where you do preview Renders) and you should see in that menu a button that says "Export" on it. Click that, let it render(it will take a while, depending on the size and rendering Quality, and obviously with a fully finished model should be High Quality). Then you open up plugin manager, you should see the Thumbnail of your model, simply click it and drag it to the side where all the little circles that will have names like Commercial, Landmark, Residential, Power, Water, ect, are at(but towards the one where it needs to be). It should be ready for the lot editor(where you have to open a random lot(depending on where you put the model, as in, if you placed the model in the commercial tab or whatever, open a Commercial Office(CO) or Commercial Service(CS) lot. I hope that helps, and I'm sorry if any of that is a little vague, I'm not feeling that good so I'm not thinking well. The Omnibus should have tutorials there that explain it alot better than I can.

About Wall Street Plaza, I should possibly finish the lighting on it tommorrow, after I get back from the last day of my Driver's Ed Class. I should be able to have it released before Friday or Next Week. Next week, I take the driver's portion of my test to get my permit...finally...whoo hoo!.....if I can pass....

EDIT: Damn my attention span, I forgot to reply to some people.

SimFox- I appreciate that compliment! And I don't use a laptop actually, just a desktop. A Dell Dimension 8200 to be exact. I know, quite an old computer....Thank you for the knowledge about glass! It should come in handy for anyone.

Amthaak- Thanks for stopping by once again! BAT Team of the Year you say?  Why thank you!

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

So I managed to get my model in game with the help of xyloxadoria, he showed me how

I compared it's height with the W.R Grace Building, I'm hoping that it was either the fault of the W.R Grace Building's BAT'er or my Model is taller then it's suppose to be

Also if you notice theres like a shift in the lines on the around the top floors of the building, i dunno what that is

If anyone wants to know, though i doubt. there are a lot more problems with the model, for instance i have to scale it to fit in a 4x4 tile, because apparently my model is like 1/10th too large for 4x4

at least i caught a lot of these mistakes before it was too late, which was basically the entire point of doing this :3

PBGV103 - Sgt Pepper's right, i knew this building looked familiar

[Xyloxadoria 1,099]

That shift at the top is a render error. It happens every now and then and the easiest way to fix it is to re-render. Since this is a test BAT and youre re-rendering anyway the problem should fix itself. Theres also one other thing i notice about your building.  It also looks like your building has no windows at the moment,  I noticed you were having touble finding a texture for them. Whenver i make a window texture on my BAT, i make "fake refections" I basically get a picture of a city or something similar and add blur and a blueish color to it to make it look like refections.   You could try that or invent your own method for making windows.

[PBGV103 729]

Hey Brandon you got it! Sorry to hear you don't feel well. I hope you get better soon!

[Aaron Graham 4,417]

PBGV103- Iooks good can't ait till its done.

GuerrilaWarfare- keep it up, you are doing great.

[PBGV103 729]

Well guys 3ds max crashed while saving and ruined the file.  So I thought I'd have to start from my back up file which might as well be starting over...  BUT, thank God that the guys at Autodesk setup max to save it's own back up files.  They're saints in my book after this one.   

Edit:  And it's slowly getting there:

[ozdaniel 4]

Darknono35!!!

i love your work on the One NY Plaza i love your upload too ... but why don't you upload it as a diagonal ? i really appreciate it if you up load the one NY plaza as a diagonal or if you can send it to me by email if it possible?

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

I hope you guys dont mind posting a pic of mine here, recreating NYC for some fun, it's looking like the real thing with all these NYBT bats!

[SimFox 801]

Guerilla:

You have chosen not a best building to compare your one to. First of all, Hanson's WR Grace is way-way out of proportions. The real thing is 70+ meters wide, eg it has to sit of 5tiles wide lot yet Hansons model is on 3 and still have room to spare. Second it is very sloppy made model just look at those columns of windows - each and every of it's own width!  Not a good thing to look at while you're making yours. I already remember something along "...40-42 windows, who cares... blah" - very bad thing to say and to think. So in the end you are getting bad scale comparison and bad quality image... It may be impolite but it is truth and not saying it doesn't make anything better.

To get your own building to scale you should (here I go again) start from general - use boxes to mass it. then go down to separate parts. each time dividing your primary volumes into smaller bits - that way you overall size and proportions (once established will always stay in line and you wouldn't find that it has magically grown 1/1 over the allowed size.

This is addressed in equal measure to PBGV103 - you should first mass the building. and door handles are the last thing you should be putting in. Same goes to materials and especially textures - these are destructions hiding modeling flaws and confusing you. And just like Guerrilla you may find that it either doesn't fit, or too small etc, etc..

BTW I've taken a look at your Lever file. I have good news and a bad one.

 the good one is that I believe there is nothing wrong with your max installation - those deforming modifiers didn't work simply because they couldn't! In GMAX you made the box for flag with 50 devisions - naturally there should be something that could be rippled. Yet none of those survived transition. I guess converter simply saw and box with totally straight edges and 50(!) divisions. so it thought " what a silly thing to do! I'll fix it I'll fix it good!" and removed all of those. So now in MAX file you have a box with NO devision - naturally it can't be deformed - only skewed.

That was a good news the rest is basically bad - your model is again of a wrong size - way to small. It didn't happen in transition, I have checked GMAX file and the same problem is there.  You should stop measuring things in "tiles" and start in meters. And you should mass you stuff first and then only start making doors and individual bits of windows. or you gonna run into problems like that in every project. Trust me it isn't just my personal preference talking.

So basically you don't have anything really worth preserving there - neither geometry, no sizes. It would take longer to go and fix all the smoothing issues - and these are the least of the problems that geometry has - there are tons of stray and duplicated faces on some stuff and many missing on others. Generally I'd say there transition from GMAX to MA doesn't work! It would take more time to fix such a transported model than to make it anew in MAX. And since you've apparently squeezed it into 4x4 lot without checking what are those 4 actually are, it is sits atop of 40x40 m lot instead of 64x64.

Again and again do massing first! Especially when you do such a massive buildings! In a small house you can "safely" miss a meter or two but it wouldn't really show cause it is so small overall. Yes difference to the individual element could huge in %, but since those do not repeat that much it overall wouldn't be such a huge problem. In skyscrapers a mistake of just few centimeters multiplied tens, hundreds or thousands time will wreck a total havoc! And you wouldn't know it till when it too late.

Xylo:

Congratulations for you over-lordship, yet, your awesomeness, you're wrong here:

Originally posted by: Xyloxadoria

That shift at the top is a render error. It happens every now and then and the easiest way to fix it is to re-render. Since this is a test BAT and youre re-rendering anyway the problem should fix itself.

quote>

It is not a render issue. and re-rendering will not fix it. This is error that occurs when game assembling chopped and textured LODs. And it could be attempted to be fixed by slightly moving the model on LOT. The problem is that while you fix such a kink in one place you may produce it in another...

As for the Seagram had been modeled twice.. I didn't know it, honest to good god... Would I start it if I knew? Not sure. May be i would , may be I wouldn't... I did wanted to do a bronze tower, as I feel that none really has been done well - their shadow side is always pitch black etc, etc..

Still I don't see any major issue here. Particularly when there is a way to improve something.

[GuerrilaWarfare 39]

Originally posted by: SimFox

Guerilla:

You have chosen not a best building to compare your one to. First of all, Hanson's WR Grace is way-way out of proportions. The real thing is 70+ meters wide, eg it has to sit of 5tiles wide lot yet Hansons model is on 3 and still have room to spare. 

quote>

Well that makes me feel better about my model, i knew i had a feeling his BAT wasn't exact.

So that said i think my model is structurally the right size, give or take. 

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Originally posted by: SimFox

I was just looking at Lever house... and, well, my Google Earth had scrawled again (on it's own I swear!) and when it stopped - very shortly, I must add. what did I see there?!

right, the Seagram building! The one and only work of "Genius Renown" Mies van der Rohe (!) in NYC. I just couldn't let it go. Besides I wanted to do a bronze tower for quite a while now. So I though it must be a destiny. Also genius of the architect makes modeling it pure joy. it's structural beauty and harmony without parallel!

quote>

The way this building (and so many others) works with the topography is so nice in real life, but so bad for SimCity!

But it's good to know this wonderful building is in good hands. 

[PBGV103 729]

SimFox, thanks for figuring out the flag issue. I know the scale between the first and second floor was off. The ground floor was squashed. Heres my question: if the Lever house lot is about 64x64m, then it wouldn't fit on a 4x4 lot, right? So then since everyone else has been making buildings in Midtown by the "4 tile standard" that must mean that everyone from kryptowhite to Maxis got it all wrong, and the map by beskhu3epnm is also about 33% too small. So if everything is too small, then isn't it safe to assume that a "SC4 meter" isn't realy a real meter at all? After all, we export scenes in generic units, who's to say that SC4 doesn't read that as 2/3 of a meter? Well, all of this gets confusing pretty quick, so I think I'll stick with the 4 tile standard. At least that way my NYC recreation won't have buildings of different scales, and people like lucky7 who use my BATs in their journals won't have that problem either. As far as proprtions go, though, it would be nice to make models in meters, and then scale them to maxis size, maybe this is what you were suggesting and i misunderstood you. Do you have any suggestions on getting the correct proportions? Short of going to Manhattan and measuring every side of the building, I can't think of a way to accurately do that. I know emporis gives the height which helps a little...

[Seraf 1,238]

Sgt Pepper - Don't worry that much about the glass, I can never make it the way I want

PBGV103 - building starts to look nice, but I have no idea on which actual building it is based ^^

Simfox, well, your Seagram building looks great for me, i don't really like this type of architecture, but you can make something nice even from the easy (in theory) modern tower

Aaaand because I try to be more active in the group lately, I started to work on Alexander Hamilton Custom House in the meantime:

[PBGV103 729]

That looks great Seraf! how are you ever going to get all of those statues and reliefs in though? seems like it would be an incredibly tough job.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Originally posted by: PBGV103

SimFox, thanks for figuring out the flag issue. I know the scale between the first and second floor was off. The ground floor was squashed. Heres my question: if the Lever house lot is about 64x64m, then it wouldn't fit on a 4x4 lot, right? So then since everyone else has been making buildings in Midtown by the "4 tile standard" that must mean that everyone from kryptowhite to Maxis got it all wrong, and the map by beskhu3epnm is also about 33% too small. So if everything is too small, then isn't it safe to assume that a "SC4 meter" isn't realy a real meter at all? After all, we export scenes in generic units, who's to say that SC4 doesn't read that as 2/3 of a meter? Well, all of this gets confusing pretty quick, so I think I'll stick with the 4 tile standard. At least that way my NYC recreation won't have buildings of different scales, and people like lucky7 who use my BATs in their journals won't have that problem either. As far as proprtions go, though, it would be nice to make models in meters, and then scale them to maxis size, maybe this is what you were suggesting and i misunderstood you. Do you have any suggestions on getting the correct proportions? Short of going to Manhattan and measuring every side of the building, I can't think of a way to accurately do that. I know emporis gives the height which helps a little...quote>

The game is 100% in meters.  Each tile is 16x16 meters.  The front of Lever House is about 61 meters, and the two other sides are about 58 and 46 meters.  4x16=64, so Lever House would fit very nicely on a 4x4 lot.

[SimFox 801]

Originally posted by: PBGV103

SimFox, thanks for figuring out the flag issue. I know the scale between the first and second floor was off. The ground floor was squashed. Heres my question: if the Lever house lot is about 64x64m, then it wouldn't fit on a 4x4 lot, right? So then since everyone else has been making buildings in Midtown by the "4 tile standard" that must mean that everyone from kryptowhite to Maxis got it all wrong, and the map by beskhu3epnm is also about 33% too small. So if everything is too small, then isn't it safe to assume that a "SC4 meter" isn't realy a real meter at all? After all, we export scenes in generic units, who's to say that SC4 doesn't read that as 2/3 of a meter? Well, all of this gets confusing pretty quick, so I think I'll stick with the 4 tile standard. At least that way my NYC recreation won't have buildings of different scales, and people like lucky7 who use my BATs in their journals won't have that problem either. As far as proprtions go, though, it would be nice to make models in meters, and then scale them to maxis size, maybe this is what you were suggesting and i misunderstood you.

quote>

It’s all very bizarre and twisted. You haven’t presented any grounds for these conjectures. Not a single ground fact on which you build your justifications, conclusions and suggestions for further on.

The simple matter of fact is that SC4 is a metric game. I think it would be pointless to explain why GMAX is set in Generic units – I would need to explain too much stuff about how renders work and particularly antiquated and overly simplified one Maxis had written for BAT.

So,

Generic Unit  = 1 meter.

Game Tile = 16m x 16m.

and here is a proof from the horse’s mouth, so to say, if you don’t believe me:

Originally posted by: PBGV103

Do you have any suggestions on getting the correct proportions? Short of going to Manhattan and measuring every side of the building, I can't think of a way to accurately do that. I know emporis gives the height which helps a little...quote>

Yes I do have a suggestion. More than that, I have presented and explained it in this very thread at least twice already. I went into details why it is important and what it is important for... But here it goes THIRD time, (may be it is true what they say -" third time's a charm")

You should first MASS you building - you take overall sizes from Emporis and Google Earth, or may be from floor plans if you are lucky enough to come across those.

 

Then you study the building looking into it internal proportions, its rhythm and start subdivide it into ever small pieces.  You could do it on a piece of paper, or straight in the modeling program, that’s doesn't really matter, but that sequence does. Say If you know that your facade is 40 meters wide, and you know that you have X columns of windows and you have determined from study of the building proportions that spaces between columns and flanking one are about 0.85 the width of a window than you can determine precise size of these key elements. You don't even need to know exact number, although this is very advisable as it could help you further along the way, but can simply divide the facade according to these proportions.

 

And so it goes further and further to smaller and smaller details.

 

If, and I repeat it, you’ll start modeling your building from door handle you’ll never get it right. Of course there is always an option to simply declare it right, or may be right now and right for me… but wouldn’t you agree this is basically trying to pull a fast one?

[Sgt Pepper 864]

Ok everyone, I'm sure you noticed this all ready, NYBT Now has their own forum! Thanks to the Admins and Dirk for letting us have one!

Seeing the little "PM Vote" decided in favor of our own team room, so...this is the result. So now everyone can post their own organized threads and show their progress. However, we can still leave this one open for all of us to post in sometimes, as like "BAT Teaser" Thread for NYBT I guess. Sound good everyone? I see one of the Mods all ready moved this thread to the NYBT Team Room, thanks for whoever did that! I would have sent a PM earlier about it, but I had Drivers Ed and just got home.

Great Progress everyone! Don't forget to open your own BAT Threads soon and if you need to find the old NYBT BAT Thread, it will be in the NYBT Team Room, just as a reminder.

-Sgt Pepper/simcity4fan12