Why did Maxis abandon SC?

[Darkvette 0]

I've looked at most of the posts in this forum, and one question remains for me, why did Maxis abandon Sim City Societies?  They created and developed this franchise, so why now did they leave it to another developer?  I have played all 4 Sim City games, always pre-ordering the new one before it comes out (Still have disks for all of the old ones too).  I'm 25 and have pretty much grown up playing Sim City.  Can anyone answer for me why Tilted Mill is developing SCS and not Maxis?  I'm sure there are a lot of others that would like to know as well.

 - Darkvette

[sean9721 0]

i read that since its different than most other SC games that another developer is doing it.

[Robstersfive 0]

because Will Wright sold his soul to the devil  EA!!

but yeah the real reason is because Maxis is working on Spores and Will Wright felt that simcity 4 had worked its way into a corner and wasn't as popular as the sims. personally i think cult and small followings are great but sadly it doesn't make money! everything has to be big and popular now. We are not allowed small fan bases anymore! if wanna be unique ur not allowed!

basically Simcity Societies was made to make it accessable to everyone and EA have rights for sim city now not maxis so it was given to Tilted Mill while EA make sure maxis team finish spores

hope that clears things up for you

by the way I am 22 and played simcity all my life to

[szarkoz 8]

Because they're working on Spore now.

[BIWDC 2,296]

I wouldn't say they abandoned SC as there working on spore still & EA wanted to get

the ball rolling on SC so they got another developer,besides i don't think maxis has that

big of a staff to handle 2 big games so they will probably make the next SC if there is

one.

(i see others replied before i finished well i will still leave it)

[TickleOnTheTum 1]

For a start Maxis as a seperate entity has gone, it now just EA and The Sims Division within it. EA have a bit of a history for abandoning projects. EA is very money orientated so they have seen how popular The Sims franchise is and decided to push Sim City in that direction, hence Sim City societies. A Sim City proper game would not sell enough copies by EAs standards to be worth the time and money.

[Karybdis 34]

Maxis basically got dissolved, and the Sim line of games went with it.

Currently there will be the Societies series which was outsourced, and is no longer one of the original maxis sim games, Sims series, which is currently only in it's second iteration and is still getting feedback from the old maxis core group (which will probably continue to happen for another couple of iterations until Sims4 or so), Spore (will's new game), and whatever will will choose to work on after Spore.

Basically evidence suggests that maxis is now will wright, and he can only work on one game at a time.

[toxicpiano 125]

I don't understand why there were never any more expansion packs. If it had gone the way of the sims (12 ep) I really wouldn't have mined. It would have been better for us. Maxis were certainly working on a traditional SC sequal (If you ever saw Luc B's blog I think it was). EA probably pulled the plug and moved them on I suppose.

BTW, SC did have a huge fan base, all the games sold well. I think the sims has contributed to the downfall of SC because it has overshadowed SC.

[Jasoncw 11,839]

When it comes down to it though, it doesn't matter.  Will Wright didn't actually work on SC4, and I don't think he worked on SC3K either.  On top of that, the actual staff within Maxis changes over the years.  I think very little if any of the Maxis staff that worked on SC2K worked on SC4. 

While the people who Maxis has been hiring are probably along the same vein as past employees, and all studios have their own character, the "Maxis" in our heads never really existed.  That is, there is no single group of people who have been making the SimCity games.  Even if Maxis was making SC5, it wouldn't be the same group of people who made SC4.

[toxicpiano 125]

Originally posted by: Jasoncw When it comes down to it though, it doesn't matter.  Will Wright didn't actually work on SC4, and I don't think he worked on SC3K either.  On top of that, the actual staff within Maxis changes over the years.  I think very little if any of the Maxis staff that worked on SC2K worked on SC4. 

While the people who Maxis has been hiring are probably along the same vein as past employees, and all studios have their own character, the "Maxis" in our heads never really existed.  That is, there is no single group of people who have been making the SimCity games.  Even if Maxis was making SC5, it wouldn't be the same group of people who made SC4.quote>

Wright is still credited as the designer of SC4 and SC4K, or course wether that means just the concept or not is another matter.

[ilikehotdogsalot 307]

i've always wondered why they abandoned simcity 4...i remember when there were new landmarks were uploaded to the maxis site everyday, then all of a sudden, it stopped, and the next time the site got updated was with simcity societies many years later :S

[Mogwai1313 2]

A big part of SC4's problem was the fact that Will Wright was very unhappy at how difficult the game had become and he feared that people new to the game would have a hard time adjusting to the learning curve. Wright's feelings, coupled with EA's money grubbing attitude pretty much killed the game we all know and love.

[waway625 72]

Originally posted by: TickleOnTheTum EA is very money orientated

quote>

this line alone would explain it all

[ManagerJosh 0]

Maxis didn't abandon SimCity. EA abandoned Maxis.

Officially, "Maxis" doesn't exist anymore.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

Originally posted by: ManagerJoshOfficially, "Maxis" doesn't exist anymore.quote>

 

That actually is wrong... Maxis still exists, but it's now the property of EA... for better or for worse depending on who you talk to.  Right now, Maxis is focusing on Spore... SimCity isn't on their minds.  What EA did was give us SCS, a filler game in the series that will keep the SimCity franchise alive.

I can't see Maxis completely "abandoning" SimCity forever.

[ManagerJosh 0]

Technically EA Games is focusing on Spore. But from my discussions with Maxoids and EA team members, Maxis as we know it has split into two: EA Games and Sims Division. Spore has been assigned to EA Games and Sims Series (SimCity/The Sims) is in Sims Division.

[SimFox 800]

I think there are many sides to this "abandonment" issue.

First of all the game mechanics itself. Logic is as one alien proverb puts it a tri-sided sword (Volcan or Vorlon??). 1 side - to make game "belivable you try to design algorithms that sort of mimic reality. Reality is infinitely complex so even simple simulation gets VERY complex and hard on computers - most powerful computers in the world are running such reality simulations. 2nd side. Ok you simplify your simulation, limit variables number to make it easier on lowly PC. As result your simulation gets very predictable and, frankly boring. 3rd side. You try to spice it by throwing in some "chaos" element - say sim stupidity in path finding etc, some illogical and unrelated variables like monster Attacks etc. but that has quite bad side effects as it first ruins the logic of actual simulation, and adding any new variables in the existing model makes it exponentially more complex and hard on your CPU. So these 3 sides pretty much cut off path of developing game into more realistic one. That is purely developmental issues.

Then there is commercial aspect. People and companies make those games for living. So here comes Cost_Revenue ration. you make game more complex and realistic it gets progressively more expensive and that comes with full blown force of diminishing return. Also more complexity cuts off some of the market. It may attract new players but I'm pretty much sure their numbers would be MUCH smaller then those leaving. Significant part of population is becoming nowadays intellectually lazy. This is side effect of specialization (needed for gains in productivity in work place) and consumerism where sellers WANT stupid customer and actually work hard to create one. What officially is heralded as "simplicity of use" is in effect an attempt to limit users understanding of underlying principles and tie him into familiar brands with their pseudo techno buble of AirPorts and I-links etc, etc. As a result totally absurd and mindless "pipping Tom" games do better on market place. Of course this appeal to the most basic and primitive urges is hidden behind all sort of blah blah created by marketing departments to flatter consumers.

Developing game by adding "expansion Packs" this is a Holly Grail of any developer. Basically it is selling the same product to people time over time simply changing the package. Technically it is true. People are buying SAME game just with different looks. But here comes en issue of cost of such window dressing, it's effectiveness (how well does it hides the fact that "King is naked") and the paramount question will and how much people pay for it.

I'm pretty sure people in EA are cursing the day the BAT has been released. Original idea was that people skill level is such taht all we see in terms oif users content would be something along the lines of those few works still on official site "House of Stone" and so on. EA thought that this would keep interest in game while they will be supplying "quality" content. but community had ruined these plans. Content of quality comparable or even superior of that that EA could economically offer is available for FREE and in Avalanche quantities. So in a way we all killed SimCity4 by significantly reducing EAs possibility of making money of it.

This is a reason I thin that we will not see full blown BATs no more I think industry had learned it's mistake and will not help the rise of smart player. Smart customer - bad customer for big mass producing developer.

So to put long story short here is how I see it:

Why did Maxis (EA) abandon SC?

because:

1. Game mechanics did run into corner where further development isn't really feasible for any mass market.

2. Possibility to milk gamers crave for Eye candy was in big part ruined by release of BAT and entyhusiastic community that took bread out of Maxis/EA mouth.

[outriderdriver 4]

Simfox, I would put money on your answer. Its so sad how its true about the "stupid consumer." I can't stand how dumb things have gotten today. Though I really think its since THEY dropped the ball, WE picked it up.They gave up on it first.

[KingTitan 6]

Did you find that information simfox from a site....it almost looks word for word VERBATIM, that i read that EXACT info on EA/MAXIS?

[baertooth 330]

I think you're analysis misses a few key factors.

The first big factor is Rod Humble.  In one of the earliest interviews I read from him, he said it was natural or something to that affect that The Sims and Simcity converge and is a major voice in the revamping/replacing of Simcity RCI.  He also heads The Sims division for EA and consequentally Simcity and is one of EA's supporters for making more casual games to tap into the Nintendo Wii business model. 

Another big key factor is what happened at the end of Simcity 4, right before Rush Hour was released.  If anyone remembers, Maxis was actually pulled off of Rush Hour and replaced with a different internal developement team because of Maxis' difficulty in programming the transit options.  If one where to open the hood on Simcity 4, I'm sure it would look like a mess and it would probably be a wonder it works as well as it does.  I can imagine that fact was one of the big motivating factors behind deciding doing something completely different.  What you argued is something EA, especially Mr. Humble, has offered as a reason for doing what they did.  I think they thought it would be less work, ultimately, to drop the SC4 code base and reason it was because of overall complexity rather than lacking the desire to fix what was broken.

Not only that, EA is accused, and guilty, of issuing sequeals that are little more than updated rosters in their Sports products and charge another $49.95 for it.  They decided they needed to break that cycle and revamp some games but for some reason, they first game they choose was Simcity and not one of their Sports games.  I just don't remember people complaining about Simcity being nothing more than a slightly improved version of the previous game, at least not like people complaining about Madden or one of those games being rehashed as they are.

As for the BAT, they, as in EA and Tilted Mill, have said there is a BAT for Societies on the way after the game is released.  What that means with what you argue, I don't know.

[sobol 1]

Simptropolis/SC4D/SimPeg and the other fan sites are re-making the game.

Let EA invest every penny and ounc eof strength into Spore instead.

[baertooth 330]

sobol:

Maybe for Simcity 4.5 or Simcity 4++, but I'm definitely interested in Simcity 5 and want EA to hurry up and get to work on it. I only say this because I don't want EA, if they happen to read this, to think that the whole community is interested in Spore. I'm not and I know I'm not the only one. So I diverge and hope EA won't forget Simcity for Spore.

[RossHuntAllan3 0]

*Runs to make petition on petitionspot*

petition here http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/Simcity5

[Karybdis 34]

No need to. EA already stated that if Societies bombed, or didn't do as well as hoped, they'd make another Simcity game along the lines of 4.

So it will sort itself out. Either they'll make Societies be a good game (or at least it's sequel), or if it isn't, we get SC5.

[Insane Child of Bodom 1]

OKAY no one buy SCS and maybe EA will realize its own mistake...

[Psycho_Teddy 25]

If I see another one of these kinds of threads, I think I'm going to stab the nearest person in the eye with a blunt instrument of torture...

[ManagerJosh 0]

Now now Theodore. No need to get violent

[Hide0_K0jima 0]

Maxis is still its own entity there is 2 separate studios still. One for general games (that is the official one) and the one Will Wright used to experiment and start off Spore's development, currently both teams are working on Spore and the other one is working on the Sims 2 and 3.

[Screwballl 196]

I am one that refuses to give EA any more of my money. They have messed up too many game lines to warrant paying them a single penny more.

We had such high hopes for SC4... and if it weren't for the BAT and modders, SC4 would have been an updated SC3000.

EA is now trying to find a way to make money from SC and that means following The Sims line of thinking, multiple expansions to keep content a bit newer and so they called on a new company to do the dirty work... produce a very basic groundwork game that is decent but not spectacular to which they add more content for as much $$$ as the original game every few months.

No thanks EA, I am not stupid.

[MADONNAchris2000 0]

Yeah maxis have stopped alot of work with EA! they dropped the sims 2 on the SIMS 2 PETS onwards! they did the sims 2 and nightlife and open for business and then dropped!! Shame, those expansion packs were great! I really hope tilted mill do a good job of this simcity!