Simtropolis 1000

[patriots_1228 51]

alakazam-i dont know but if we get enough good ideas then maybe a programmer will come along and want to work on this.

to everyone-just one thought. you might want make this a password thread or somthing. Dont want TM or EA sneaking around stealing ideas.

[schm0 27]

Originally posted by: topcliff You know, I think this is totally doable. Out of the 170k people here, there has to be some people who work on software and computers. The only thing I want for this possible game is for their not to be growables. Let me explain why:

1. Growables rely on certain factors, and these factors are sometimes unachievable (like the Stage 7's in Vanilla).

2. Uncertainty is the main problem. Players spend too much time on letting things grow, often in frustrating clusters, patterns, areas, etc.

3. After reviewing some of the CJ greats, I realized that most of those are plopped for maximum satisfaction and zero repitition on the player's part.

4. Plops are easier to control, plus give total control to the player in terms of designing their optimum city.

TopCliffquote>

All you have to do is change the way zones work a bit to make the AI select a more reasonable set of paramaters for building. Ever notice how you have like 6 random squares that don't develop until demand is high in your light industrial areas? The game would recognize that you didn't want a bunch of un-used squares and develop a row of warehouses instead. Justy a thought. Ploppables are nice, but it simply takes too much time to plop an entire city.

[bixel 1,223]

ok guys......

I know some programming - I can find my way through ruby and python code. I can even write AI in a C build for NWN1-2. My exroommate writes graphical code to render 3D movies and stylistic games with specific real-time rendering options. Like visible lines along edge to get that 'comic book' look. He also knows all these oldskool coding tricks and can write code from the command line.

BUT WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM

I am a new coder, I read a lot of coding magazines and game developer magazines, like coincidently, Game Developer Magazine (look it up get it - its free (i think)). Since I am a new coder, meaning one of the next generational coders, I cannot write code from a command line, I am not versed with graphical rendering code, or where to begin writing a real time renderer. In fact, I need GUI driven code editors and ready made compilers to properly compile it and give me feedback in any syntax errors. Older generation coders can make their own compilers and they laugh at us newbies for paying $40 for a python GUI driven compiler/library/editor that highlights their strings of code in neat colors. BUT I NEED THESE THINGS.

So some people say - lets write it from scratch! and some people say, here is a link to somebody who has made one from scratch! and so forth. BUT THATS NOT GOING TO WORK.

The best recommendation I have seen was for buying an engine to work off of. AURAN is a good example. The more we can stay away from trying to code our own graphic engine the better. In fact i would go so far to say that we could even take existing games and mod them completely. EA wont give us SC4. But THQ has this game called Supreme Commander - it has realistic trees, good terraforming, amazing zoom and zoom out properties. Level of Detail code is set up, ploppable/growable build actions, and it has fully moddable objects with script code. Meaning we have a lot of room there.

The most important things is that the graphical engine is very fast and all the goodies that we want - properly lighting/shadows, the code has already been written. It could be possible to buy in to the HL Source engine - consult with the Valve team about the abilities to script objects an new camera views. The Source engine is very fast renderer. Supreme Commander renders like 20,000+ individual animated objects seemlessly and can quickly move the camera.

Another thing, like Jasoncw said. The reason why citylife and scs seems to look so bad is purely based on its art direction.

Example in SketchUp

Sketchup has funky way of making things look like they were made from cardboard - but it has an interesting look. Elegant designs... mostly with no textures at all. With a some tweaks to a renderer we can get some interesting looking cities all rendered in realtime if we have a good engine. To save time - I recommend modding an existing game or buying a proper engine to work with. Give me a fancy nice compiler and code editor and I can write code for the game.

Objects = Building + code = zoned or ordinanced ingame objects. We can do a lot of things. Snap to grid for easy road making, toggle on/off. Dragable roads in any direction, snap to road (not grid) zoning/ordinance. Multi use zoning. Commercial/Residential. etc. But it really depends on the engine we decide. Seriously - if we try to build a graphical rendering engine from the ground up we fail.

[Gman55 0]

I must say, the ideas have been great so far. They're practical and with a few real programmers, highly feasible.

If any community can do this, it's SimTrop.

My suggestion is focus on the basics, as in SimCity and SimCity 2000. This is more technical reasons more than anything. Too many project self destruct because they don't take small enough steps...

[david1314 44]

Originally posted by: rodent1989

2.  We want it to be full 3d

3.  We want it to look better than SCS, and at least as good as SC4 (if possible)

4.  We want the grid to be either non-existant or considerably more flexible.quote>

Some of those aren't the case.  For example, we really don't want full 3d.  It is a serious decrease in quality, and will be a nightmare to get things to appear on par even with SC3000 in full 3d.  3D is a compromise into which we are forced to break from the grid.

Fortunately though, once we go 3d, there is no reason to maintain the 'game grid' (there is necessarily an environment grid that defines the location of objects).  But the grid would be a thing of the past.

Intersections are the biggest problems that arise here.  Since they are no longer 'tiles' they must be made as objects, and either defined through a series of rules when to place, or must be puzzle-based (both work well).  Though, to keep transit network 'open moddable' the rules cannot fix the transportation network to a few hierarchy items...which is why I would tend to favor puzzle peices....alternatively still, this could all be done through vehicle avoidance behavior (to quote one of the SC greats ) totally removing the necessity for intersections.

I'll finish these thoughts when I get home... work is ending right now.

[hamsterTK 93]

To me, we should be coming up with a somewhat original idea, one that is still feels like simcity and is still fun like simcity, but not so much simcity that its the same ol' same ol'. Don't get me wrong, I love SC4, but maybe we could come up with a change of pace that is interesting and cool, and not sucky like what we have seen in the commercial games

Im a fan of JasonCW's idea, some of those points are really cool.

[smbrown1 1]

can we get this going on some tech podcasts or some big tech news sites? this thing is a great idea, thanks to all of the people who are going to make this work.

[Alakazam 3]

First we need to find a reliable team with members that are ready to go into a very difficult and demanding project. Seriously, that thing could takes YEARS to make. Just look at the Black Mesa: Source team. They have the full Source engine with a lot of pre-made props and coding, but they still have a lot to do after 2 years of making.

[mightygoose 92]

i think tbh jason there has it pretty sussed... its a great way of doing it,,,, and it would not be too stressful. now to find ourselves a graphics engine.... if we use that as our initial model unless anyone has any complaints... we should start seeing about how we go about acheiving it....

[angelo 0]

Check out my post https://www.simtropolis.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=32&threadid=89637&enterthread=y . A lot of you might find it interesting

[david1314 44]

HamsterTK - regarding departing from the SC4, I don't think it's a good idea.  It is a simulator, simulators rely on realism, realism is to be strived for.  I don't think there's a lot with regards to the actual game play that needs to be addressed.   Tourism (using transportation), and daily commuter (lunch, friends, errands, etc. not being part of the Morning or evening commute).

Originally posted by: mightygoose i think tbh jason there has it pretty sussed... its a great way of doing it,,,, and it would not be too stressful. now to find ourselves a graphics engine.... if we use that as our initial model unless anyone has any complaints... we should start seeing about how we go about acheiving it....quote>

I kind of disagree.  People still seem to be stuck in the old version of SC4 plugins.  For example, when jason said 'odd sized lots'... We need to stop thinking of a way to recreat simcity and think about recreating any city

I think lots should be done away with altogether opting for zones/buildings that are beholden to spline roads and paths.  This is more how buildings are zoned in real life...

I had a post about this above that goes more into depth, but the point is, we need to break from the old SC4 habits.

NO CONTENT FROM SC4 WILL BE COMPATIBLE WITH ANY NEW VERSION.

SC4 content is designed for a 2-d environment and models as complex as those would be a nightmare to load in real 3d.  Updates and conversions could be done by original authors, but don't expect many to jump at it; it will be huge amounts of work...I would venture it would be less work to rebuild old buildings from scratch rather than try to convert them

[Mellophonius 9]

Perhaps you could submit your ideas to Will Wright himself, or Maxis, or some other game developer to provide its own bit of expertise in the matter. But only on one condition, that you and the rest of the team assembled from Simtropolis users would remain in charge of the design process and other matters concerned with game creation. If the game were to be downloadable from Simtropolis and otehr fansites only, not sold in stores, then a publisher would not be needed. But, if you can get this game looking good enough, then perhaps a publisher would be willing to look into it. The game Simtropolis 1000 would be sold on the shelves of places like GameStop, EB Games, Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart... and think of the money that the team would be paid for this. I know that the publishment of this game is an even longer shot than the game's actual creation, but it might be the straw that would break the SCS camel's back. If a rival video game, created as a "real" SimCity 5 and utilizing the countless wish lists given by thousands of SC4 players, shows up on shelves alongside Societies, then peoples' atention would be grabbed a bit more. If the game becomes a huge success, or at least a greater one that SCS (probably so), it could attract the attention and maybe even official endorsement from Will Wright. This could lead to the Simtropolis 1000 design team's involvement with future official SimCity games and maybe even other Maxis games. I know its a very slim chance, but it could all be possible.

[hamsterTK 93]

HamsterTK - regarding departing from the SC4, I don't think it's a good idea. It is a simulator, simulators rely on realism, realism is to be strived for. I don't think there's a lot with regards to the actual game play that needs to be addressed. Tourism (using transportation), and daily commuter (lunch, friends, errands, etc. not being part of the Morning or evening commute).quote>

well the current simcity isnt exactly realistic right now

what makes thinking outside the box unrealistic?

[joerg 280]

Alright so this thing is growing quickly or atleast the ideas. So we again need to acctually find some direction, and get organized.

First and foremost we need to get some teams together.

-Core Development and Programming team.

-Logistics Team, providing the programers with real numbers and ideas to incorporate.

-Design team, content creation.

-Assembly Team, contect content to code.

Next we need to create a proper location to sort this all out, this thread is getting out of hand and its not even a day old.

Next we need an official design spec.

Next we need to talk and choose a free or cheap game engine to work with.

Finally we need to start dividing tasks up.

Ok so I would be happy to kind of take the reins, but I want to be as fair as possible.

With that said I think its a good idea to take this game in a new direction, not like SCS is but we need something fresh, so i have a few ideas to make this fresh.

-First off I think a proposal system would be great as talked about above, it has been one of my goals for quite sometime, and could improve many aspects of gameplay.

-Next I feel we should create a P2P file share built into the game, basically use an open source p2p protocol to allow users to dynamically populate the games content.

-Finally I think social aspects of the inhabitants lives could be fun to play with, and are an intergral part of city managment, but i want real things like sports franchises, petitions for better roads, and competition between the public and private sectors.

So that said i agree with everything we have all been discussing and I think we have a shot at this if we get organized.

As for going 3d, I honestly say we just make the commitment and roll with it. The game will be easier to code, smaller, and grid free. Sure we are going to loose some detail that is a given, but being able to have dynamic lighting, shadows, and other visual effects i think will make up for this.

[The_Dalai_Llama 15]

I gotta admit this is what SimCity should be about... heavy focus on realism and micromanagement. SimCity 4 was the closest thing to actually running a city or region and I fear SCS is a step backwards. I truly hope there's enough support behind this. I would absolutely pay good money for Simtropolis 1000.

By the way, have any other gaming communities had success creating their own game primarily from scratch? I would hope a precedent was set before such an undertaking is attempted.

[joerg 280]

There have been other successful communities but few were this intense.

So I have homework for everyone.  I am going to make a thread in sc5 discussion for now and i want everyone to post in it a screenshot of any game, movie, or basically anything 3d that they fill would be the bare minimum graphically.  This well help give us a gauge as to what 3d envirorment we will have to choose.

[Norwegian Neko 12]

This is a very ambitious idea... and I support it as a long-term simcity fan and simtropolis member. However, the biggest issue that you will have in doing this is:

ORGANIZATION!

In addition, I think some rethinking of how the game organizes and handles all of the plugins would be highly beneficial - especially since it is such a pain in the ass to install new BATs with the maze of dependencies that exists.

A feature that I have been also dreaming about for awhile would be to create your own customized building tilesets - from within the game or an editor - as many as you want, with some buildings being a part of multiple sets. You could then use these custom-defined tilesets, perhaps even one for each of your cities! This way you could have even more control over what kinds of buildings grow in the different zones.

As far as transportation - a more realistic system would be nice, where sims actually have to find a parking spot, necessitating parking garages & lots, as well as an expanded subway system, with underground stations and connections.

Sims should also GO places besides to work, such as shopping malls and such - a sort of behavior of sims in their off-hours. Would make actual resorts like Disneyland possible... and tourists could spend money of which you could earn sales tax in bigger shopping cities.

And, of course, the ability to plug-in and add any kind of content we want, without replacing what already exists - from transit networks, buildings, zone types, etc.

[Hanson784 165]

I think we can get some programing help.

I just remembered Zach Baker, the programmer who programmed True Crime: Streets of LA and True Crime: New York City , expressed interest in my New York project on a blog which interviewed me about my NYC project. Here's the comment he left on that blog,

"This is great! I was a programmer on the games True Crime: Streets of LA and True Crime: New York City and now help run a virtual-city website called LA Life, so I know a little about this. It’s a fascinating endeavor and his stuff looks really beautiful.

The games I worked on had the problem that we weren’t really building the city as much as the game that took place there. And I’m still trying to find a way to really experience the city inside a web browser, but it’s a lot of fun trying.

By the way, be sure to search on “The Panorama of the City of New York” if you’re interested in the real-life version. I’m sorry I missed it when I was in NYC a year ago but I hope to see it next time I’m there."

You can find his blog here. It might be worth it to contact him.

I really like some ideas here such as JasonCW's and also using Sketchup to create content. Also, I like bixel's suggestion of using Supreme Commander for a base to save time. I l really like how the water is rendered.

One worry I have with that are legal complications. We would have to get it cleared with the publisher and the developers if we want to do that.

[Hamish 1,369]

Here's a suggestion. What about making the sims go to work only on weekdays and not at the weekend. so their would be rush hour only on monday-friday then you might be able to make them tavel to shopping centers ect. on the week end, more like real life.

[Godzillaman 21]

So...what is this exactly?

[woodb3kmaster 342]

Shoot, I would pay for ST1000 if y'all can pull this off! This would be the perfect wake-up call for EA. You have my support, even if it's only in spirit (I don't really have the skills to contribute to the project, much as I'd love to).

[simwithoutacause 0]

I am all for the ideas in this post, although I can't say I've read every individual post. I am, however, going to offer my position on what the next Simcity should be:

In order to have a realistic urban simulation, we must look at how great cities such as New York, London or Toronto (yes, I'm Canadian and had to throw that one in) came to be. Major cities don't just appear out of thin air and the majority of modern cities (formed in the 19th and 20th centuries) were established around a particular industry. After all, people don't just move to the middle of nowhere for the heck of it.

In my 'Simcity World' the game would begin with the ability to choose your region of the world (for simplicity, your climate):

1. Climate -You would choose from Temperate, Tropical or Arid. This will greatly affect how your city develops over time. For example - Temp. climates would attract a great deal of industry but little tourism (until you develop your city). Trop. climate of course will have lots of tourism and will blossom quickly, but will have some downfalls as well (I haven't totally thought out this point yet but you see where I'm going. I would love to see snow in the winter (and from a city management point, snow removal costs as well), whereas an Arid climate would require a greater focus on water supply.

(on a side note) I would like to see more dynamic weather such as storms, heat waves, drought, etc. Not all disasters, but it would be nice to see this implemented.

2. Regions - These should still exist but I prefer the idea that was mentionned on this post of land aquisition. Cities expand. I think that you should start with a small area. Once you have an established town, you can acquire land on the edge of your city (if your budget allows).

3. Start up - Like I mentionned, cities don't form in the middle of nowhere. So I feel that there should be a basic transportation system already present such as a highway or a railway that runs through you town. This would be how people actually relocate to your city. You build around the road/rail with the ability to reroute that artery as you would anyway else. You should also have a starting industry (such as timber production or oil/resources). Something basic that will get your city going and will be the backbone for your early economics. This dependancy will depreciate as your city expands and becomes more and more self sufficient.

4. Government Funding - In terms of infrastructure, healthcare, etc. cities are not on their own. Government subsidies could be introduced and eliviate (sp?) costs assiciated with these items. Buyer beware: If you city fails to meet the needs of its people (low approval rating or something), Government subsidies are reduced.

5. Transportation System - I don't know a lot about computer programming, but I do not like the simple 90o and 45o options for road networks. In CityLife and Ceasar IV (TMill) you can create almost any angle for road networking. I like CityLife's system (that's about all I like) for road networking. When there is a gap between a lot and a road, a filler lot is added (usually grass or cement, depending on the wealth/type of the area). I would love to see different types of roads too. Gravel/dirt roads for rural areas (cheap but can't handle volume), streets and roads for built-up areas. Further to that, you place a two lane road and lets say you need to expand. Well you simply drag a fourlane road over it and bango, you have nore lanes (at a cost). You can expand for several lanes and slowly see your sidewalks shrink; want more lanes? Well you'll have to demolish some houses (you sims may not be too happy).

Wow, people are still reading? I appreciate your time.

6. More Detail for Transit and Infrastructure - OKay, buses/LRTs and everything in between. Well I like the ability to place bus stops (which should actually be part of the road and not take up a lot). But anyways, who pays for those buses, who buys them? Same with LRT trains/trams? Well you should place your stations but after that, you should be buying your busses/trains. Playing around with how many busses, what types of busses.

Emergency Services -

Well how about that. You should be able to place a firehall and say, once you city expands, add to the firehall with the addition of phases (similar to the Cityhall in SC4). This will go for police stations, EMS halls and hospitals.

Police Vehicles - The ability to purchase and upgrade/modernize police vehicles. How many will you city have? Once you have a larger city, why not have the ability to by ERT (SWAT in the US), bike patrols, etc. A police helicopter can be purchased (for a price) but will not be perched on the roof of your police HQ (this is NOT realistic). You better have an airport for that helicopter to sit.

Fire Apparatus - Do you want pumper trucks, aerial/ladder trucks or what? How many? How bout buying a heavy rescue unit or a HAZMAT truck to make your sims feel safer and to allow the FD to deal with such issues. I want to see the trucks I buy in the game.

EMS - How many ambulances, what kind? Want an air ambulance? Better have the hospital install a helipad and you better have an airport for your helicopter to sit. How about bike medics. We have 'em here. Why not in your city?

Zones - I don't know about you, but when a house is built, it stays a house for a long time. Why are we getting townhouses in a village of 2000? Zoning should be simple. You zone a large area connected to a road of say, residential, and when it develops you have subdivisions. Why all this grid system. Let's get realistic. I'm no programmer, so someone else will have to figure that one out.

Airport - If you've ever been to one, they're huge. They require an awful lot of space. Why are the airports in SC4 so small. Simply zone one, to your specifications and size and watch it develop. Smaller zone allocation will yield smaller airports. I would like to see realistic taxiways and runways (you know, one's that aren't 2 feet from the control tower). Maybe when you zone an airport, you can decide where, how long and at what angle your runways are? You know there are runways in directions other than 0, 90, 180, 270. Lets see some different runway patterns.

Infrastructure - When cities are small, dirt roads are a good idea. They are cheap, at least until you build a 'roadworks' facility and have the ability to create your own army of road workers, rather than ship in supplies to build your roads.

Power - The one thing that bothered me in SC4 was that almost every city required a power station. I want to see massive power grids. One or two or three big plants supplying the entire region. At first, you can buy power from another 'area', but when you grow and need to expand and be self sufficient, why not have control over your grid. Same with water.

Demolition - We all know that demolishing buildings isn't as easy as 'point and click'. In reality if you have to demolish a large skyscrapper, you would hire a demolition crew to implode the building. I would like to see this. You would issue a demolition contract to a crew (for a pretty penny) and in a few months (preparation time...again, realistic) would see the building implode. Could things go wrong? Maybe. Oh, and in real life, you can't arbitrarily kick people out of their homes so you can demolish their land and build a mall. You need to compensate them. Everytime you demolish a building, you better have a few bucks set aside so you can compensate your sims.

Wow, if you've read this whole thing, thank you. My fingers hurt. But these are just a FEW ideas I have and would love to brainstorm with more people about our 'wishlist'. If we get enough support, maybe we can take our ideas to EA/TMill to look over before it's too late. Or just make our own game. I still like Simtropolis 1000.

Questions/Comments?

Email me: section28_5@hotmail.com

[Jasoncw 11,840]

As far as the lighting and the level of detail, and all of that kind of stuff goes, SCS looks like it has a lot of potential visually.  The models shown to us are actually quite complex, so we'd definitely have room to work in with that set up.  The lighting looks nice also judging from the first screenshots.  I noticed some bad aspects about the lighting on the newer ones, but lighting is something who's quality can easily be increased according to computer power.

I'm sorry that I post this picture so much, but here's something I made a few days ago.  I only worked on it for a couple of hours, and I've never made something like this before, so it's not great, but I don't think it's something to complain about.  If I spent a month making it instead of a few hours, and if I knew what I was doing, I bet buildings could look really good.  I think the community has the ability to make a lot of amazing buildings for this type of game.

The building is low poly.  I didn't get very far on it, but I think it could be finished within the level that it could be used in a game.  And with the scalable details ideas, polygon counts aren't as big of a concern (of course still a big concern).  To the right is what it would look like at zoom 5 in SC4.

It's rendered in 3ds max, with mental ray, with final gather set to 10, and bounces set to 1.  This is visually comparable to what SCS looks like.

simwithoutacause wrote things that reminded me of a whole bunch more ideas I've had about what the next game should be, although these are too complex for a fan made game.

The role of Business:

I'll use Detroit as an example, since I'm more familiar with it.  In the early 1900s, Detroit's automobile industry skyrocketed.  Individual companies started up, built a factory, expanded, built more factories, Detroit cars populated Detroit streets.  A few decades later, skyscrapers and massive buildings were being built by the same companies.  Some of the other same companies went out of business, and others were gobbled up by the other companies.  Now 100 years later, the car industry has made a very visible impact.

I'd like to see actual individual companies start up, and then grow, and as a mayor I want to mold the city to encourage these certain companies to grow.  I want to work on promoting and attracting business.  That's a very important part of being a mayor in real life, and it's an interesting aspect that the current games have overlooked.

-The role of location and business:

Chicago had (probably still does) a huge meatpacking industry, and this is because of its geography.  Other places are successful because they're on rivers, or have access to local natural resources.  Location has a lot to do with what a city become and why.  Nowadays, that stuff doesn't matter as much, since technology has brought the world so much closer together, but back then it was a big thing.

-The role of business and community:

The types of businesses in an area have a big impact on defining that community.  Most cities have some kind of entertainment district.  A theater might have been built there, which attracted a competitor theater.  And then the area became well known for theaters so more theaters were built there to take advantage of the reputation.  So you have a theater district.  Or a certain area of town has universities and museums.  The residential areas in that area will likely have a lot of professors and artists.  There will probably be some private galleries, and stores that sold art supplies.  Things along those lines.

-"Neighborhoods", business, and communities:

My neighborhoods concept (see my last post last page) might be able to aide in the development of these communities.  If a theater develops in that neighborhood, then it should attract more theaters.  After a certain point, if that entire neighborhood has a lot of theaters, it should create a neighborhood wide level positive influence (to make computations easier for the game) for theaters in the adjacent neighborhoods.

[patriots_1228 51]

godzilla-the most ambistious(spelling) project ever!!

Sports teams, parades/events, all things that have been missing from previous versions. although many of this may never come to be its incredible that as a community we are going to attempt it. lets pray we succeed!

[Gridlock 9]

i agree with patriot ,once you guys get the basics ,in order to protect what your doing you must take it away from public view ,because it may get sabotaged ,some people prolly dont want you guys making games real games,if you ,or should i say when you get this game playable , if s its a real contender in the CB games market , you will suddenly become big time . If i was a huge corp and your game may be a threat i would do everthing in my power to stop you making it , just bear that in mind .So its better to take it away from public ,keep it quite then amaze the world.,but only when its to late for anybody to stop you.

[Godzillaman 21]

@simwithoutacause-that would be a hell of a game!

[patriots_1228 51]

also i would makesure u dont use simcity terms like RCI, U-Drive-It, etc.

[Ntq€310 1]

i just want to say something.. in other games that had the samething happen, they tries to make there own game, all of them were unsuccseful, if we do start this, we need every simcity 4 fansite involved, we dont need many diffrent games being devolped, we need one game being devolped, one community ( many fansites) working on it, with help from them, this can easily become reality

[owenluby 1]

This project is just A DREAM COME TRUE!... That's if it works anyway...

But I really think the 172.00 members on ST can really contribute in their own way!

Like most, I don't know a thing about programming except that it takes a LONG time. I would be willing to help in any other way possible. Maybe graphic design of logos or User Interfaces etc.

What I've always wanted to see in SC4 is the ability to fully customize transit networks. It would be the best if you could get down and dirty naming stations, train lines, making timetables, making logos and routes... oh, I could go on for hours...

I'd pay 200 bucks for this game I'm serious!!

[Ntq€310 1]

im sorry for another quick reply, but another good name for the game would be "SIMCITY REBORN" because it's being made by the fans, though we could get into legal troubles, just a thought