This should ring a few bells.

[Galemp 0]

Can't believe this hasn't been done yet. Now, I'm an experienced 3D Studio modeler, but I'm totally new to the BAT and SC4 modding. Anything I should keep in mind while I'm working?

[hamsterTK 93]

The Braun Llama Dome!!!!

[Jasoncw 11,840]

lol, cool! 

There are a lot of things to keep in mind.

Scale and proportions:  These should be realistic, but some exaggeration is required for the details to be clear in the game.  Do a lot of preview renders to see if you're doing a good job.  Keep in mind that the isometric view visually squashes the vertical height of the buildings, so you'll need to vertically scale (I suggest around 130%) to compensate.

Color:  This is very important but usually overlooked.  The game was designed with a certain color palette, and you should consider this palette while texturing.  Most of the buildings seem to have a pink hue to them, while many others have a blue hue.  Take a screenshot from the game, and use the color selector in your favorite program to really get a sense of the colors used.

Work on the building until it is done:  It's not done when you don't feel like working on it anymore.  That means you need a break from it (start another BAT, or go to another hobby for a little while), and then come back to it, and finish it.

To quickly see how your building would look in the game, do a preview render, press the prnt screen key to copy a screenshot, and paste it into Photoshop (or whatever program you use).  Then take the magic wand tool, and erase the black matting.  Then take a screenshot of your city, and paste it into the program.  Now you'll have your building which you can move around your city and compare to Maxis buildings (never compare to custom buildings, it's like playing the game of telephone, the "message" gets degraded).

Good luck on your building, and keep us updated!! 

[Galemp 0]

Hmm. Scale actually raises a few problems. The original SC2K lot was 4x4 but that was the largest lot available at the time. I think 6x6 would be a better choice for SC4, with a total height of about 120m. That's neatly half the scale of the real-world monuments the Llama Dome is based on.

Thanks for the tips on color. I'll make sure I keep a close eye on it.

With some research I've found I can import/export to 3D Studio (with all my plugins) with .MD3 as an intermediary. I'll hope to find some nice things here.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Tiles in SC4 are 16x16 meters.  SC2000 are something like 64 meters, but I don't remember, and it's something you should probably find out.

[Galemp 0]

I've done some more work, leaving the SimCity 2000 model behind and working towards SimCity 4-level quality. Still working out the big things right now, but getting closer to detailing. And, I got nightlights working.

How's the spacing on the tower girders? I can make them sparser and thicker, or denser and thinner... it's a matter of taste, really, since they're all parametric (Tesselate + Lattice).

Are there any tutorials on making animated props or nightlights?

[SimFox 801]

Well… I think this structure may have some nostalgic value to it, but apart from this it’s grotescish style wouldn’t really fit into SC4 environment. It looks like some very *****ish attempt of using Lot Editor.

Speaking of spacing of girders it is difficult to say since you post pictures from such a small zoom level. I believe you should model and preview at zoom5 and let the software/game take care of scaling it dow for smaller zooms. this way it will more natural. The way you modeled it now may result in very crude looking piece of a building at Zoom5 or even Zoom4

BTW it is great to see some pros joining the scene. BTW do you have any experience with MAXScript

[dmscopio 225]

that is a really radical building...the eiffel tower with a UFO on top...crazy design~

[scotty222 549]

looks great

the space needle, eiffel tower, gateway arch in one

[lrfox 2]

hahaha. fantastic job first of all. I wouldn't mind seing the supports (gateway arches) be thinner. they gain too much of my attention in that. but other than that, looks great.

[hamsterTK 93]

nice

I never really looked at that building having girders like the eiffel tower though lol

[Glenni 1,444]

Not that sc2 has so much detail you could see...

EDIT: i opened up sc2 and snapped a pic, it turns out, it DOES.

[Galemp 0]

I think I'm done! I've worked on it all day and I think it's about ready for export.

[hamsterTK 93]

thanks glenni, I forgot how it looked. I have sc2k installed but im too lazy to open it up

Ack! Its so ugly! Just like the original! Man, the pixel artists who made this thing must have been giggling hysterically or high, or maybe both. All it needs now is a custom query listing the number of weddings, visitors, llama sitings, bungee jumps,.... oh and complaints

[SimFox 801]

Lights are VERY overblown (particularly on the arch parts), but tower suffers from it as well. Also fact6 that they don't cast any shadows look a bit weird.

Texturing also need a LOT of work base of the structure looks flat and Saucer module is completely blown out at day and has this poisonous tint in the night. I know it's suppose to be white, but such a big white spot doesn't look good

As of modeling…. in your first message you made a claim to be experienced #d Studio modeler… well this claim is still (very much so) have to be proved (substantiated). What we see here is very, very basic. Looks nothing like a work of a pro… not for a long shot! So, you barge in making big claims come up with goods because so far modeling, texturing and lighting are all, how should I put it… basic…

[Galemp 0]

Ouch, some pretty harsh words there Fox. I can't claim to be a 'pro' but I did say I was 'experienced;' that is, I'm used to working on polygon meshes and can make my way around the Max interface, so I only have to learn the nuances of the BAT extensions and not how to make a box.

I agree that the lights are overblown; I really don't know why they're so extreme since they seemed fine before. What aspect of them should I change? Do I darken the color, lower the multiplier, or narrow the hotspot or falloff?

Making the spotlights cast shadows left ugly criss-crossing shadows from the tower on the arches. I turned shadows off for aesthetic purposes but if you think realism is more important I'll try it. Perhaps I can reduce the shadow opacity.

I'll darken and matte the saucer a bit more, but I'm kinda stuck for the base. As a reference I'm using the pyramids at Teotihuacan

( http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Mexico/Teotihuacan/index.html )

which as you can see don't have a lot of detail. Should I scrap the entire base and re-model it with more terraces, platforms and mastabas closer to the source?

Extracting new textures from photographs and bump-mapping them could go a long way, but as the sides and tops are the same material it's going to be difficult creating visual depth, given the SC4 perspective.

And I honestly don't think I can improve the modeling of the tower, arches, or crown any more than I have. I'd appreciate more constructive advice from someone as obviously experienced at this as you are, but mutual respect and patience will go a long way.

[AndisArt 2,066]

Well SimFox, that indeed are harsh words, not the nicest welcome to a new member showing the first BAT...

Galemp, here's some tips from me: For the white you can maybe try a white texture that has some structure of some sort, like plating. Here's an example: 



You would need to brighten this texture up though and probably decrease the contrast to make the edges of the tiles less visible.
That's just an example anyway. I have more suitable textures at home, I can post them later. 

For the yellow column texture I would apply the Fake Ray Tracing method, which adds a great deal of realism to it and will look more interesting. (BTW: I find even for low buildings this method pays out very well)

For the light I would try to decrease the multiplier instead of changing the color because it definitely is set too strong. 

Also Jasons comments above are very good. I'm just not sure about vertically scaling 130%, seems a bit too much to me. gmax needs that much but you are using MAX and that is more accurate in my experience.

Really good job on the inner tower structure! And overall a really promising start as a new BATer I have to say

[hamsterTK 93]

how big is this thing?

you ought make it smaller. To me, unless you add finer detail, it looks too "chunky"

also, maybe you should rethink the base texture. The mayan style stone is scaled way too huge. It might be realistically sized,but it doesnt look very appealing in the game. I think you oughta replace it with tiles of the same dark brown color as in sc2000

[LivingInThePast 364]

Actually, I always thought the Eiffel Tower thing was enclosed. Oh well...

[toxicpiano 125]

Wow! The llama dome! Very nice work there. All I would say is that the white parts are too bright, I agree with andisart. I hope to see it on the STEX soon!

Ps, for the white parts I think a nice dirty burn tool and gradient would be in order.

[IDS2 3,344]

Hehe! My favorite SC2K building! I still play that game sometimes...and wonder why the number of bungee jumps remains synonomous with the weddings.

Very good model! Every once in a while I would turn on the Tokyo tileset and rename it Ploky's Home and Help.

Hope to see this thing render! That would be awesome...

[GMT 389]

if you ask me, you should give the observatory deck a rework...

it doesn't look like the original.

apart from that, it's a wonderful bat you've done here. I really like it.

It's ugly, it's big... it's sooo sc2k

[nofunk 1,933]

For the saucer, if you have access to Photoshop, just make a light grey (not white) texture and then add monochromatic noise to it. Some paneling, like andisart suggested, is a potential idea, too, but depending on how you modeled the saucer, getting the texture to fit right might be a bit of a challenge.

Are you using gmax or 3ds max? If gmax, then you'll need to darken the texture a little more than you'd think, because lighting in gmax tends to wash out angled surfaces.

I never liked this building, but I think you've done a masterful job recreating it! And it's nice to see some fresh talent here on Simtropolis!

[Skyfire2275 23]

Yes, good work. The texture on the base and saucer aren't quite right... The base it too light and is too "noisy", I'd go with something simpler. And the saucer is too monotonous, needes a bit more variation. But other than that it looks pretty good.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

Galemp:  The way you said it, you made it sound like you were actually experienced with 3ds max.  A professional.  Also, buildings take a lot more than a few days to make.  Casually working, my buildings take months to make.

That building doesn't have any complicated surfaces.  You should be able to texture it all using photoshop and the material editor.  There's a link to a texturing tutorial that I wrote in my signature, and it will tell you a lot.  Between that, the tutorials in the omnibus, and proficiency in Photoshop, you should be all set for texturing.  Since you're using 3ds max though, you don't need to add in vertical gradients, since your lighting and materials should do all of that for you.

For the stone base, the texture is not properly scaled.  The size of the gaps between the blocks are too big.  I recommend making the texture yourself in photoshop, using methods from my tutorial.  Take a screenshot of it in the front view in wireframe, paste it into photoshop, and draw the texture ontop of it.  Use the line tools and the grid snaps in photoshop to draw the blocks, and brushes and other methods for variation.  Use a few white layers (set to multiply or overlay or whatever) with a pattern overlay of various rock textures (not patterns that define block outlines, but patterns that define the texture of the stone), and also try using the greyscale paper patterns.  Additionally, making a grey layer, applying monochromatic noise to it, and changing the blending mode and opacity can help make the texture less manufactured.  This is a crude substitute for uvw unwrapping, so if you can do that instead of you want to.

For the Eiffel Tower (or whatever tower that is), you'll have to manually make it if you want it to look good.  You could probably get away with adding thicker structure on top of what you already have.  I think the main reason it doesn't look right is because all of the parts have the same thickness.

For the design of the entire thing, you have a choice between being "accurate" (making it match the SC2K version) and being good.  If you make it exactly like the SC2K version, it will turn out really bad, but if you make it look good, it won't be as accurate.

I hope all of this helps, lol. 

andisart:  The vertical scaling thing isn't about the programs, it's about the angle in Sim City.  Both programs are "accurate" as far as that goes.  I don't know exactly why, but the isometric (technically Dimetric) visually squashes things.

[Galemp 0]

Well, I haven't made any changes to the mesh, but I've reworked all the texturing and lighting from scratch. I think it looks much better.

[mightygoose 92]

that is much better, one thing i think would look cool is some greenery or flowerbeds round the middle step of the pyramid. apart from that the texture work is great.

[Galemp 0]

Yuck. Lighting on the exported building doesn't work.

I've read through the "BAT Help - Lighting" thread here... I have all my lights prefixed with 'nitelite', the building's power consumption is over 15 units, and I'm powering the building. Other custom BATs I've downloaded do light up, so I know I have the Maxis patch. Am I missing something obvious?

Also, I'd like to change the Query SFX, but SC4Tool won't let me change any values. Maybe I can take my problems to another thread, if someone will point me in the right direction.

[Jasoncw 11,840]

For the most part the normal BAT threads don't apply to 3ds max.  Instead, look through the 3ds max threads.  There's one in the BAT - Workshop, and a continuation here in the BAT - Open Discussion.

Try harder to get it to light up in the game.  Toggle the day time a few times, let the game run for a few months, try again, and do this for a little while.  Sometimes it's hard to get them to light up.

btw, I looked at your website.  Your building from 2005 looks nice, and right now being 2007, I'm looking forward to seeing your next BAT project.

[Odainsaker 2,133]

It'll make a fun nostalgic landmark!

It needs the antenna. Or lightning rod, weather vane, transmitter, or decorative spire. Depending on how snuggly the LOD is fitted, you might be able to use the various colors and cycles of the Maxis-made flashing light props in the Lot Editor to add blinking and flashing light effects to the tip of the antenna and around the saucer.

But something to look at a bit more is the textures. I would suppose the arches and the saucer are made of some metal panel cladding, rather than a smooth seamless finish, but the textures don't have that panelled look as they are not showing any seams. They should be fairly faint and unnoticable, but there nontheless, at least on the saucer. Similarly, the textures of the base no longer read as masonry, for the seams and gaps got too small. You might also consider giving the masonry texture a gradient of some sort, to give it a less uniformly clean look. Perhaps a gradient of some sort to the concrete-like material around the stairways and the arch footings.

Hmmm...you know, you could put a railing around the both the top and middle step of the base, let the stairways gain a middle step so they can open onto the new middle terrace, and so allow the middle setback of the base to look like a place people can walk around on and take photographs. Like all great architectural sculptures such as the St. Louis Gateway Arch, people will want to walk around and physically touch it, and they will want to try to touch the metal and sharp edge of the gold arches.

For something completely optional, but which could be fun if you have the sanity for it, you might try putting in the light fixtures with gleaming lenses that are making the vast interior lighting. I do not know if they would be arrayed just on the skeletal frame tower, or if there might also be arrays of them along the flat walkable surfaces of the base. It may or may not look good, depending on how true your arrangement of them complements with the design of the tower, but they would add more levels of "sparkle of detail" to the BAT.

Oh, it needs a name over its main entrance.  In bold gold letters like the golden arches.

Okay, too much, but hopefully this was useful.