Creationism vs. Evolution

[KonstantinII 1,106]

 

 

The Bible is the true word of God but it is not the only true word of God. God has sent prophets to many different cultures over the years but the differences in interpretation of God's word has established different religions. All religions have parts of God's word intact yet none have all of God's word due to misinterpretation as well as cultural differences. We even discover that not all holy religious texts are in Bible such as the dead sea scrolls. I consider holy books of many religions, like Koran and Book of Mormon, to contain true God's word. 

[KonstantinII 1,106]

 

 

Alright, explain it to me from ground zero. The singularity is something I've bumped heads with several times in the past, but never actually understood why it was so significant or important. Why is it so?

 

Simply put, the Singularity is the moment when we create a machine that is so advanced that it can make machines that are better than itself, without human help. 

 

Actually Singularity is defined as an infinitely small point of infinite density. Scientists suggest that singularities are in the center of black holes.

 

 

 

And war isn't as bad as you think. Yes, people die, parents lose their children and children lose their parents. Tragic as that is, the bigger picture is actually...positive. Western states exist solely because they were very good at waging war. Our technological advances are thanks to war. European civilization was the first civilization to actually be spread over the entire world. Again thanks to war. And peace? Well, I suppose peace is a nice thing to strive for during a war. But to strive for peace during peace? Corrosive and destructive. Look what 75 years of peace brought us? Political incompetence, apathy, obesity, social disintegration, technological stagnation. Hell, even our supposedly superior military is just a joke. It can't even win from a bunch of farmers with guns and bombs made out of stuff you find in the local supermarket. No, once peace has been attained, man's real dark side takes over. 

 

War is horrible. Imagine, western civilization, considered to be the most cultural civilization, wages two world wars to the death that destroy their countries. They fought like wild dogs. They knew to limits. And they would have continued their aggressive policy had they not gotten scared of communism. Internal division is the end of human civilization. Why can't everybody make peace and put all their resources for the good of all people? After all, Earth belongs to everybody. Crazy dreaded nuclear rocket buildup is useful only for one thing: rusting. Have even a few nuclear rockets and nobody dare approach you. At this age we can choose either to destroy ourselves... or to cooperate and to build our cosmic civilization.   

[Cobraroll 138]

 

The Bible is the true word of God but it is not the only true word of God. God has sent prophets to many different cultures over the years but the differences in interpretation of God's word has established different religions. All religions have parts of God's word intact yet none have all of God's word due to misinterpretation as well as cultural differences. We even discover that not all holy religious texts are in Bible such as the dead sea scrolls. I consider holy books of many religions, like Koran and Book of Mormon, to contain true God's word. 

 

 

Then what do you make out of religious texts that don't mention your god at all? The Hindus follow a completely different logic, a belief in not one but hundreds of gods, based on texts way older than the Bible. Then there's Buddhism and Shintoism, also quite different from Christianity. As well as a few abandoned ones, such as the belief of the Aztecs or the Vikings. They can't all possibly be fundamented in the same source material without a lot of collossal screw-ups and misunderstandings on the way.

 

Also, if all monotheistic religions happen to follow the same god, how do you know that the interpretation you follow is the correct one? What if, say, the Baha'i are correct? Or the Zoroastrians? The Sikhs? Or even just a different branch of Christianity? There are plenty to choose from. And they've all got pretty much identical reasons as to why they should be the "true way".

 

A fun exercise for everybody: try once to explain why people believe in other religions than yours. Why they are willing to spend hours praying to their deities, or to die for their faith if necessary. Then ask yourself why you believe what you do. Compare the reasons.

[LexusInfernus 908]

 

Actually Singularity is defined as an infinitely small point of infinite density. Scientists suggest that singularities are in the center of black holes.

 

War is horrible. Imagine, western civilization, considered to be the most cultural civilization, wages two world wars to the death that destroy their countries. They fought like wild dogs. They knew to limits. And they would have continued their aggressive policy had they not gotten scared of communism. Internal division is the end of human civilization. Why can't everybody make peace and put all their resources for the good of all people? After all, Earth belongs to everybody. Crazy dreaded nuclear rocket buildup is useful only for one thing: rusting. Have even a few nuclear rockets and nobody dare approach you. At this age we can choose either to destroy ourselves... or to cooperate and to build our cosmic civilization.   

 

 

I was talking about the Technological Singularity. Google it. 

 

Also, Western civilization became the most widespread civilization in the history of humanity exactly because we were constantly fighting against each other. Look at it. Most of our technology is mostly the result of competition. One of the two key economic theories to come out of Europe is based entirely on competition on so many levels, while the other key economic theory is essentially a reaction on the first economic theory and cannot even exist without the first one. Our states are designed around waging war, their efficiency and professionalism the direct result of ages of warfare. War was the reason we expanded to outside of Europe, spreading European culture all around the world. And make no mistake, no other culture had ever done that before us. 

 

And why can't there be peace? Well, because peace is unnatural. 

[Duke87 1,070]

Science quiz purportedly from South Carolina.

 

Can't confirm if this is real, but... yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Probably from a private school, though.

[Mr Saturn64 742]

If you think about it, Evolution and the Bible go along quite well. As the 7 days, if you think about it, everything needs to go for an entire "day" in everything. That would be billions of years. It coordinates.

[Wiimeiser 436]

If you think about it, Evolution and the Bible go along quite well. As the 7 days, if you think about it, everything needs to go for an entire "day" in everything. That would be billions of years. It coordinates.

If this is the case, then God's having His Day 8 morning shower and doesn't want to be disturbed.

[Cockatoo 2,256]

Science quiz purportedly from South Carolina.

 

Can't confirm if this is real, but... yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Probably from a private school, though.

 

Wow...

 

I'm pretty sure even our private Christian type schools here teach evolution/ the formation of the earth as scientific fact. If that's real, it's really shocking and quite scary to see.

 

I've always been under the impression that only the most radical/ extremist cult type Christians actually believe (as in literally believe) things like "the Earth is 6000 years old" and "Adam and Eve lived in a garden with dinosaurs" and that the majority of Christians take these parts of the Bible with a grain of salt.

[astronelson 339]

 

Science quiz purportedly from South Carolina.

 

Can't confirm if this is real, but... yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Probably from a private school, though.

 

Wow...

 

I'm pretty sure even our private Christian type schools here teach evolution/ the formation of the earth as scientific fact. If that's real, it's really shocking and quite scary to see.

 

I've always been under the impression that only the most radical/ extremist cult type Christians actually believe (as in literally believe) things like "the Earth is 6000 years old" and "Adam and Eve lived in a garden with dinosaurs" and that the majority of Christians take these parts of the Bible with a grain of salt.

 

 

I went to a private Catholic school. Science class covered actual science. Heck, even Religion and Ethics didn't say anything about creationism. It was mostly study of other religions and discussion of ethics, with a bit of philosophy.

 

The Catholic Church doesn't support creationism, though, and to the best of my knowledge accepts modern science as being pretty much accurate (with the caveat that God can intervene at will).

[MandelSoft 2,769]

Science quiz purportedly from South Carolina.

 

Can't confirm if this is real, but... yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Probably from a private school, though.

This is just brainwashing. People who are taking things literally from the bible are most probable not being able to look at the Bible critically. If you do look at it, it does show some things it can't explain.

For instance, in Genesis, the plants were created before light did. So in the 12th(!) Century, a scientist did an experiment to make plants grow without light, as it did in the Beginning of Time according to the Bible. Guess what: they didn't grow, ergo plants need sunlight to grow, thus the Bible is wrong about this fact.

Besides, creationism would render the entire science of genetics and pharmaceutics useless. Why?

- Genetics: if we really come from one pair of people, Adam and Eve, our genetic pool would be very, very limited, because we just had only their genetic material. However, this is not the case. Also it wouldn't explain why there are so many similarities between species on earth, while evolution perfectly explains that these species had common ancestors and the families went separate ways at one point in history

- Pharmaceutics: we make medicines, or to be more specific, anti-biotics, against diseases. Creationism says that there's no evolution. Then why do we constant need developing our medicines against these diseases? The answer: because they evolve. They are becoming more resistant against anti-biotics when exposed to it, because only the ones with resistance survive. And with life a common rule seems to be what doesn't kill it, makes it stronger. And this is very true at diseases, as we see it happen at a short time scale and we are still battling against these ever-changing diseases. And it gets worse: there are forms of TBC known that are very resistant against anti-biotics...

Best,

Maarten

[Wiimeiser 436]

I've always been under the impression that only the most radical/ extremist cult type Christians actually believe (as in literally believe) things like "the Earth is 6000 years old" and "Adam and Eve lived in a garden with dinosaurs" and that the majority of Christians take these parts of the Bible with a grain of salt.

Unfortunately most of the extremists live in southeastern USA. The one thing that's stopping them from being as bad as Afghanistan is the fact that they're a peaceful bunch in comparison. If North America ever ends up like the Middle East, these guys probably won't hesitate.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Fundamentalism basically consists of sitting on your fundament and believing what one is told uncritically.  People that don't learn to ask questions early in their lives, will be stuck in a rut most of their lives.

[Mr Saturn64 742]

That's some of the trouble with it all. There are so many communities with different aspects of the Bible and such. But then you have Whackos in every religion. And worst of all is people who bash other demoniations of the same church. Jesus wouldn't want the church to be so divided.

[Bdub01 201]

Science quiz purportedly from South Carolina.

Can't confirm if this is real, but... yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it is. Probably from a private school, though.

That has got to be a Protestant private school. I wouldn't be surprised if it was from a southern baptist private school. I went to the Creation Museum in Kentucky on the outskirts of Cinncinati and that quiz could have come straight from there. The "science" they use to explain Creationism is well quite creative to say the least. It's sad that is taken so seriously to such an extreme.

I have nothing against believing a higher power of some sort set things into motion but a literal belief in the biblical creation myth I can't believe. And this is coming from a former Christian who used to believe in that stuff.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

I am a Christian, and I don't believe in that stuff.  I've also studied a number of creation myths, including the Bible.  When people mistake myth for reality is when the trouble starts.

[Dr. Boom 37]

I dislike politicized science almost as much as politicized religion.

 

Teach evolution in schools, but let the Bible Belt decide if it wants to include a secondary "religious education" course to make it fair. I'd rather not have one viewpoint favored over another, but let the students decide what to believe in. Teaching everything with an unbiased view is fair to both parties.

[Cobraroll 138]

^Thing is, then you would only teach the creation myth of ONE religion, which hardly is fair. If you want to be unbiased, the Christian creation myth should not be favoured over the Hindu one, or the Zoroastrian, or any other for that matter.

[Linoa06 1,374]

I dislike politicized science almost as much as politicized religion.

 

Teach evolution in schools, but let the Bible Belt decide if it wants to include a secondary "religious education" course to make it fair. I'd rather not have one viewpoint favored over another, but let the students decide what to believe in. Teaching everything with an unbiased view is fair to both parties.

 

That's all fair and nice but 1) there's other religions and 2) that whole creation myth is a bunch of ignorant lies.

[LexusInfernus 908]

 

I dislike politicized science almost as much as politicized religion.

 

Teach evolution in schools, but let the Bible Belt decide if it wants to include a secondary "religious education" course to make it fair. I'd rather not have one viewpoint favored over another, but let the students decide what to believe in. Teaching everything with an unbiased view is fair to both parties.

 

That's all fair and nice but 1) there's other religions and 2) that whole creation myth is a bunch of ignorant lies.

 

No, not lies. It is a story, a fable or a myth. Those things are not lies. Its just that you should not confuse these things with fact, nor should you propagate them as fact. 

[T Wrecks 10,209]

I dislike politicized science almost as much as politicized religion.

 

Teach evolution in schools, but let the Bible Belt decide if it wants to include a secondary "religious education" course to make it fair. I'd rather not have one viewpoint favored over another, but let the students decide what to believe in. Teaching everything with an unbiased view is fair to both parties.

Taking religion and science to the same level is a trick often employed by religious fanatics* that already skews the entire debate. Science and religion cannot be opposed as two viewpoints of equal rank. They belong to entirely different realms, and should be treated as such.

 

Teach people to think, let them ask questions and be critical. Then, should they have grown up and decided for themselves to favour whatever belief over critical thinking, let them be - as long as they keep it to themselves and out of other peoples' lives. (They are going to be impenetrable to arguments anyway, so it's but lost time to "argue" with them. In fact, you cannot "argue" or "discuss", because that would require a common base of accepted and proven facts, and the mutually accepted principle that a good and well reasoned point may prove an argument or point of view wrong. When dealing with strictly religious people, all this is not given, you will be talking on totally different levels, and no common ground on which to resolve anything will ever be reached.)

 

However, don't teach people blind faith in myths when they are too young to know better, and deprive them of the possibility to find out for themselves before they are too brainwashed.

___________

* I don't mean to accuse you of being one, I'm just saying that these people often do the same you just did, but for their agenda. The consequence is that many accept this scheme and, in a subsequent debate, find themselves in a position they shouldn't have accepted in the first place. I don't think you meant any harm here.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Science tends to be public while religion is private to each individual.  One of the greatest troubles that has ever fallen upon civilized man is proselytization.  How many have died in the name of some faith when the whole issue is moot and personal?

[LexusInfernus 908]

Science tends to be public while religion is private to each individual.  One of the greatest troubles that has ever fallen upon civilized man is proselytization.  How many have died in the name of some faith when the whole issue is moot and personal?

And how many have died because of the Balance of Power or because people thought their piece of real estate was more awesome than the other guys piece of real estate? Quite a lot I can tell you. Face it, people will wage war no matter what and religion is just one of the many excuses people have used to justify their wars and cover up the fact that in the end it was just part of some political game. 

 

Besides, it is easy to point at the pile of death people and completely ignore all the good things that have come from it as well. Religion created beautiful art and architecture, it enriched a civilizations culture, it united loads of people, it helps people who are in need by comforting them or becoming a shoulder to cry on, it has inspired other people to do good, it helps people find a sense of peace and rest. The number of people that died because of religion is nothing compared to the number of people it impacted in a more positive way. 

 

 

@T Wrecks I take issue with the idea that one can't be religious and think critically at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive, not always at least. 

[Dr. Boom 37]

^Thing is, then you would only teach the creation myth of ONE religion, which hardly is fair. If you want to be unbiased, the Christian creation myth should not be favoured over the Hindu one, or the Zoroastrian, or any other for that matter.

 

Until "diversity" reaches the most rural parts of the Western world, it won't matter much. There are always private schools too. Otherwise I had always favored less government intrusion, especially on a topic like this one.

 

 

I dislike politicized science almost as much as politicized religion.

 

Teach evolution in schools, but let the Bible Belt decide if it wants to include a secondary "religious education" course to make it fair. I'd rather not have one viewpoint favored over another, but let the students decide what to believe in. Teaching everything with an unbiased view is fair to both parties.

Taking religion and science to the same level is a trick often employed by religious fanatics* that already skews the entire debate. Science and religion cannot be opposed as two viewpoints of equal rank. They belong to entirely different realms, and should be treated as such.

 

Teach people to think, let them ask questions and be critical. Then, should they have grown up and decided for themselves to favour whatever belief over critical thinking, let them be - as long as they keep it to themselves and out of other peoples' lives. (They are going to be impenetrable to arguments anyway, so it's but lost time to "argue" with them. In fact, you cannot "argue" or "discuss", because that would require a common base of accepted and proven facts, and the mutually accepted principle that a good and well reasoned point may prove an argument or point of view wrong. When dealing with strictly religious people, all this is not given, you will be talking on totally different levels, and no common ground on which to resolve anything will ever be reached.)

 

However, don't teach people blind faith in myths when they are too young to know better, and deprive them of the possibility to find out for themselves before they are too brainwashed.

___________

* I don't mean to accuse you of being one, I'm just saying that these people often do the same you just did, but for their agenda. The consequence is that many accept this scheme and, in a subsequent debate, find themselves in a position they shouldn't have accepted in the first place. I don't think you meant any harm here.

 

 

Thank you for your response.

 

I don't mean to equate science and religion the way you say, just have the information to be optionally taught at a secondary level. For example, for most of my high school reading religious texts were apart of Literature Arts. I believe *cough* that it would be for the best if both creation theory and creation story were presented and not "taught".

 

"Brainwashing" is a term I'd avoid, however. I was sent to a private school, and I had no choice over that. Were my parents trying to "brainwash" me?   However, I never really grasped (or cared) about religion. Call me an agnostic, or just irreligious.

 

Otherwise I agree. Science and religion cannot be debated on equal terms. If only some people (both atheists and fundamentalists) understood that way.

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

The best example in recent history of a deeply religious man who was also a great scientist is Albert Einstein.

[LexusInfernus 908]

The best example in recent history of a deeply religious man who was also a great scientist is Albert Einstein.

Einstein was definitely not deeply religious. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein%27s_religious_views

[A Nonny Moose 8,261]

Now we come to the definition of the term "deeply religious".

 

How do you feel about this quote from Dr. Einstein, "God does not play at dice".  This is in reference to Quantum Theory, by the way.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Now we come to the definition of the term "deeply religious".

 

How do you feel about this quote from Dr. Einstein, "God does not play at dice".  This is in reference to Quantum Theory, by the way.

And now you are quoting him out of context. Indeed, he was making a quip about a certain interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, it is not a statement about his religious views, just like me saying 'Goddamnit' or 'God bless' is not a statement about my view on religion.

 

Read the wiki, it tells you exactly what Einstein thought about God and religion.

[Mr Saturn64 742]

It seems like cursing at the Lord has become part of our society, disgraceful as it is.

[Linoa06 1,374]

I often curse at that guy for I despise him, but I still don't care what religion people have. When people get to spread lies and myths in what's supposed to be science class it's where you have to draw a line.

 

But then again, we hardly have that problem where I live.

[LexusInfernus 908]

Why would you despise something you believe isn't real anyways? Just curious.