Will China collapse soon?

[paperboy15 4]

Hmm. Time to buy Chinese stocks. Or not.

[Bother_me 0]

Why is capitalism so much better? America's got a lot of market economy and yes there are a few million people living in mansions and luxury apartments, but how many millions havn't got health insurence? When american politicians discuss it seems like they believe everybody's rich. Higher education costs money. When did a black woman from the ghetto become a doctor or a manhattan financial? At least in Cuba, education is free. And maybe that's why so many students from all over the world study there... And I want to say one more thing. Look at the gini coefficient. China is as equal (or unequal) as America.

[sc4portugal 10]

Originally posted by: Camaron

Originally posted by: sc4portugal CUBA isn't as bad as people think: quote>

 

From personal experience I would have to agree, I do not support Castro's government, but he still has made many improvements to the country. Health-care, education and a generally improved standard of living have been made under his rule. I can tell you that there is no other Caribbean island I have felt safer, but that like other things has obviously come at a very large price.

And I can confirm it is true that Castro offered to help with the Hurricane Katrina relief effort, there was just no response from the US government so it never happened.quote>

 

Exatly

anyway we should be thaking about China...

[JanYpe 17]

anyway we should be thaking about China...quote>

No more Oprah based arguments about the Cuban land of milk and honey then? Ok.

Posted by:http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/03/04/news/beijing.php>This site.BEIJING: China will raise its annual defense spending by almost 18 percent, the Chinese government announced Sunday, as the country continues a rapid military buildup that has drawn criticism from the United States.

On the eve of the opening of the annual session of the Chinese parliament, the National People's Congress, a spokesman for the congress, Jiang Enzhu, said Chinese defense outlays would increase by 17.8 percent to 350.92 billion yuan, or $45 billion, this year.quote>

A 17.8% increase is quite a lot. That's spending money like Reagan used to do. What do you lot think about the effects this will have?

[Micah 16]

Interesting story on the front cover of MSNBC.com

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21311902/

It talks about China's fight to deal with the 70% of people in poverty. 

Will the vast amount of angry villagers who are having their land taken away rise up for democracy? Only time will tell.

[SimFox 802]

China can NOT avoid spending on military! Chinese have long memory. And hypocrisy of the west is very fresh and clear in their eyes. Situation today trade wise isn't too different with one about 200 years ago when west nations went almost bankrupt because of trade with China. Solution found was to flood China with drugs - namely opium from India. All the demands of Chinese government to stop it were bluntly ignored. and when government exercised it sovereign right to destroy stockpiles of those drugs Western nations (also claiming being MUCH more free and democratic than despotic and barbarian (sounds familiar) regime in Beijing went onto war to protect Western Values like free trade. Of course in uniquely western understanding of word free - meaning free for European nations and them alone. We hear alot about england being factory of the world and this and than, but it actually China that was one. It gave 1/3 of total world's GDP at that time.

Ruins of Summer palace are very good reminder to all Chinese of Western values and honesty and basic decency. So how you could expect them NOT to spend on rearming?

[saltandsauce 0]

the reason china is so successful is for one reason: trade imbalance

china is the workshop of the world so it makes everything but imports nothing because the average people don't get paid much at all but chinas downfall will be when the workers get so fed up of making 583" tvs and having no chance of affording them so they'll want to own stuff, buy stuff and this will mean they will go through the snobbery the west went through in the 60s (ewww you work in a factory?)

the EU will become its own country havn't you heard of the "reform" treaty aka the european constitution it is a very mixed economy because labour andmarket is allowed to move freely between the entire USE

[Moshi 61]

I'd sure like a 583" TV

[SimFox 802]

Saltandsause:
you clearly learned you "economics" and facts about china from "reliable and respectable" sources like FOX.
Trade imbalance - easily said but do you actually understand what does it mean? And how does it comes about?
On the note of low pay... no doubt this affects the price of final goods but when comparing pay you should also compare prices. If that done you'll find that at least in major Chinese cities many jobs are already have pay perfectly comparable to western levels - Friend of mine straight from University is making 10000Rmb per month working in software company in Shanghai. He is sort of internal teacher... 10000Rmb is about 1282$US. If you take in account the price level for all the basics it will be about 3-4 times more depending very much on what you include in comparison basket. Of course there some world goods and those are priced more or less similarly around the world, but most of daily stuff is 3-5 or more times cheaper in China then in Europe.
But truth is that not everybody even in Shanghai have such an income level and factory workers making for instance cars get about 1/4 to 1/3 of that.

Also it is wrong to attribute the entire success to just low wages. If you remember all the noise surrounding abolition of quotas for Chinese made textiles the biggest losers in that case were in fact other developing nations. Countries like Bangladesh, Sri-Lanka, Vietnam that faced their textile industry being virtually wiped out by Chinese one. And that despite the fact that their workers get 25-50% of the pay Chinese ones do.

No doubt Chine faces great challenges ahead, but all those questions and expressions of "wary" about China smack of fake. As good old jewish joke goes:
-Moisha, how's your health?
- You're waiting in vain!"

In last decade or so China had lifted from poverty 300+ million people. World Bank states that practically all reduction in poverty in the world is coming from China alone. But of course these are very uncomfortable facts. And facts, who needs them? You need just placebos and excuses to keep feeling good about yourself and secure about your future.
But it all gonna change, in fact it changing right now. China is still dependent on export markets, but it dependency get smaller every year as domestic consumption is growing fast. Plus in many ways western consumer are now totally dependent on china to maintain their living standards and so, to even greater exten,d western politicians, who would be unable to explain to voters their sudden and very dramatic decline in living standards (consumption level) would tomorrow all that Chinese made stuff be removed from the market. And you suddenly wouldn't be so smug about all stuff you can buy cause you just would be able to afford 30% of what you do today. And that 583" TV will be no more than dream for you too.
When you want Chinese workers to get better pay you should not address those wishes to Chinese factory owner, but rather to those American or other companies who subcontract him. Those companies who feel totally normal to pay him less than 10 bucks for a pair of sports shoes and retail them for 200.

Also it is wrong to say that Chinese don't by anything from you... they do... They by your debts!

In fact they are biggest purchaser and holder of them in the world. currently it amounts to about 1,3 trillion$ - or about 10% of US GDP and that number is growing very fast.

So when you go to buy you dream tv remember that it was made in china and you buy it on money you borrow from China

[BurroDiablo 222]

Well, judging by that Vid on MSNBC, i'd say China isn't having that much trouble economicaly.  China can only fail when Western companies stop investing in the country... and for as long as China has cheap and plentiful Labour, thats not going to happen.

China has a Middle Class population of 300,000,000... that asounded me... thats pretty much the same pop as the United States... still leaves another 1 BILLION either too rich or too poor to be accounted for however.

[coolotter88 2]

facts about goods and services in china

services are extremely cheap, taxis cost 3 rmb for like, 2 km and start at 10 rmb. this is because (surprise) there are so many people in China, everyone does something.

food is much cheaper than the United States

luxury products like technology, are slightly more expensive than the United States.

[Barbarossa 51]

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  Edited September 7, 2012 by Barbarossa  

[BurroDiablo 222]

I think the US Gov still hates Cuba for defying its Economic Embargo, and still being around even after the fall of the USSR, its main supporter. At the cost of its population obviously. If Cuba turned to a Democracy, the Embargo would most likely be lifted within months...

Yet, its not China's fault the Western world is obsessed with bargins and obcene standards of living. I'm sure China would be a better place if people weren't so tighly bound to their assets and would spend a little more to help a newly industrialized country out abit. I agree that the companies should stop out sourcing factories and stay within their country of origin, but then again, to keep up Western standards we'd be paying Western Factory workers (for instance, in Textiles) a

[panthersimcity4 162]

Of course America still hates Cuba.. it's a communist country!

Same with China, and yet so many American companies manufacture goods there...

[Blindside 1]

Look what kind of goods we've been getting out of there lately though. They're all covered in lead, even Trick or Treaty buckets!

[ccecill 52]

Wow. This is pretty horriffic.

Sure hope China doesn't "collapse"

- My mouse: made in china

- My laptop: made in china

- My earbuds: made in china

- My calculator: made in china

- My soul: probably made and assembled in china

I swear. Ever look at your stuff to see where it was made? Holy crap.

[belfastuniguy 18]

hhhhmmmmmmmm This is a difficult arguement on which to comment. Several factors are influencing the Chinese economy at the minute. The first is the huge market that China is, foreign companies are practically falling over themselves to invest in China and develop a consumer base there. The government is also influencing this 'boom'. Pure and simple in Western nations this building boom would not bee happening to the extend it is doing in China, we are more accountable in the west and as such planning applications take time.

This does not happen in China and while I love the buildings that are currently under development but this cannot take away from the horrific environmental damage being done to China in the path to development. There is no reason why China can't build nuclear power stations instead of hundreds of coal fired stations they also have no excuse for allowing their nation to become a polluted waste ground, which it is in many areas. News reports on the progress of the Olympic sites development is somewhat dampened by the fact you can barely see the venues through the dangerous smog that sits over Chinese cities.

We must also remember China does not have a welfare system, that would effectively bankrupt the country, you try providing high spec education, heath and social benefits to 1 billion people. It's not going to happen for a long time. This is one of the reasons why China can embark on a infrastructure spending spree.

Remember, depsite growing domestic comsumption is still very much dependant on western nations buying the goods they make. The west has much stricter safety requirements and as a result the Chinese Govt. is trying to quell fears by targeting businesses that make dangerous products. China is aware that at the minute they must adhere to what western consumers want or they will go elsewhere.

The financial market in China is far from good, it's banking sector is fragile and could easily prove problematic for future development. So Simfox, China is far from being able to buy foreign debt and lend to western consumers. Remember that debt is traded everyday between banking groups and the vast majority or either American or European, they are by far the most stable banking sectors and to buy and trade debt the banks must trust who it is being sold to otherwise they loose money and banks aren't too happy about losing money.

China must also remember that any consumer slow down in the west resulting from higher interest rates or restricted consumer borrowing will most certainly impact on their growth.

By far the greatest threat that China faces is from China herself, in particular the Chinese people. As they get richer and more confident they will demand change and China can't really risk going about shooting thousands of people their cities anymore, that would cause alot of problems for them. As people get richer they demand new freedoms and this is what China should worry about. There are already tensions developing between the poor rural population and their middle-class neighbours that reside on the coast.

[coolotter88 2]

yes, well, no one told you to go lick your trick or treaty bucket. my walls are painted with lead paint and I don't have problems.

[LarksTonguesInAspic 28]

Originally posted by: Barbarossa China will fall if we stop giving them our business. Why on Earth are democratic societies supporting Communist regimes? The US, for example, is loathe to do business with Cuba, but we are doing it with China and Vietnam. I tire of seeing products I want to buy being "Made in China". I do not wish to support them, I want for our textiles and production to come back to America. Employ our own people, stop employing Communists. Yes, costs will change, but at least our own people will have work. And, if it is too expensive, then do business with more democratic societies. Heck, promote business in "newly democratic Iraq". Better than giving money to a regime that cares nothing about its own people.

Barbarossaquote>

 

Glad to find such a huge expanse of common ground with you, Barbarossa... The American people have been sold out by both political parties on this one.

[BurroDiablo 222]

Originally posted by: ccecill Wow. This is pretty horriffic.

Sure hope China doesn't "collapse"

- My mouse: made in china

- My laptop: made in china

- My earbuds: made in china

- My calculator: made in china

- My soul: probably made and assembled in china

I swear. Ever look at your stuff to see where it was made? Holy crap.quote>

*Looks at mouse*

Made in China...

Were all dooooomed!!!

...

On a lighter note... my 180GB Seagate Hard-drive is a Product of Thailand

[zane900 1]

As long as China is home to the world's best Table Tennis players, it won't fall apart any time soon! After all, Table Tennis is in the player, not the paddle.

Originally posted by: MicahEdit: My opinion- I think China still has a long way until it falls apart. But still, hearing about 400,000 deaths alone from pollution is astounding and horrific. If that's just from pollution, I can't imagine the death number from other figures. And if the economists are correct, China isn't growing as much as it says it is. I seriously hope China doesn't fall apart because if it does, the global economy will far apart.quote>

Were you typing too fast, my friend? All in all I agree with your point. The Chinese are humans with a natural gift for Ping Pong - that's all. It took all of two world wars for the American government to power, and they came to power because they were the only superpower not to be demolished, if you will, by the two wars. China seems to be in the middle of everything which has been going on recently, where as before world war one and two, America was not.

When I put two and two together, I believe that if China was less of a superpower right now and if some German dictator declared another war against the Jews, China might very well become the world superpower. If not, it might take half a century for that status can positively be reached by the country.

[texanpride786 2]

what goes up must come down.... signs: toy recalls... battery recalls and other recalls on products that are made in china... i think china is really overrated now

[Micah 16]

Were you typing too fast, my friend?quote>

Nit-picking is a no-no in my book.

[yoshikoroyimara 5]

just face it...China is a world power...and is already influential through the Security Council and other world events. It is also a main reason why the US can't pick on Myanmar (Burma) or North Korea. Sometimes we just have to accept certain facts. And it is true, China will eventually decline. But unfortunately, it won't be for a long time. This is hard for me to say, especially when I'm Cantonese...

[redhed55 0]

i would really like to hear what a chinese citizen thinks about this topic..anyone here from China?

[autoVino 26]

why would china collapse anytime soon?  It is a quickly growing country that's rapidly industriallizing.  This is good for its economy, maybe not for the environment, but that's a whole different story altogether.

[AutumnWindz 0]

I'm ABC and I spent my last six years in Beijing, going to high school at a Chinese school.

I'll make this really short:

China isn't gonna collapse anytime soon.

[JanYpe 17]

Originally posted by: yoshikoroyimara just face it...China is a world power...and is already influential through the Security Council and other world events. It is also a main reason why the US can't pick on Myanmar (Burma) or North Korea. Sometimes we just have to accept certain facts. And it is true, China will eventually decline. But unfortunately, it won't be for a long time. This is hard for me to say, especially when I'm Cantonese...quote>

Not "Pick" on Myanmar? This is supposed to be a good thing? Yeah, let's applaud the guys who supported Pol Pot through thick and thin for facilitating more of the same.

It took all of two world wars for the American government to power, and they came to power because they were the only superpower not to be demolished, if you will, by the two wars. China seems to be in the middle of everything which has been going on recently, where as before world war one and two, America was not.

quote>

The superpower concept itself is largely an idea that sprang up after the world wars. Isolationist  America profited from its own growth while the old European powerblocks crumbled because of the wars and decolonialisation. The US is the only superpower right now because the SU and US pushed each other up in the cold war, until the SU eventually tumbled down.

When I put two and two together, I believe that if China was less of a superpower right now and if some German dictator declared another war against the Jews, China might very well become the world superpower. If not, it might take half a century for that status can positively be reached by the country.quote>

I'm not sure I follow you. Would todays China with today's East-Asia be stronger if they're placed in yesterday's situation? There's too many variables involved to make a giant assumption along these lines. Would China have been stronger if they didn't have the poor start, internal strife and the Japanese to deal with? Well probably. But that's not how it went, so we'll never know.

 

 Read more >>  &nb

[coolotter88 2]

yeah, but even with all those recalls (batteries designed by sony BTW), where will you go without china? outsourcing is good for the economy. if someone else is willing to work for less than you are, fthen they deserve your job.

[SimFox 802]

OK, let's look at some FACTS.

Barbarossa:

Can you tell me WHO is forcing you to buy Chinese stuff? and Support the commies? Have you ever heard of fine Italian clothing and shoes?? Or for instance such a cross Atlantic stuff like DsQARED? Born in Canada made in Italy as they say... So why don't you buy they jeans (350-500€ ) or sneakers (275-350€ ) or T-shirts (100-175€ ) Or is there no more tailors n the entire US who can make to you perfectly fitting Suit or may be AMERICAN hand made shoes? I can't believe all those tuxedos and gowns you see say in Oskars awards are made in China.. So what's your problem?

BelfastGuy  -

please check you facts before you going to embark on writing something. First of all I didn't mentioned Chinese banking sector. When I said about Chinese financing US I meant purely Chinese Government, that's right the commie government that hold 1,3 trillion in American GOVERNMENT dept. basically every tenth buck in Bushes pocket so to say in fact belongs to Hu. Or where do you think all those trade surpluses you hear every second day on TV go? When ANY country sells to the world MORE then it buys it effectively credits the buyer.  And just because YOU can’t believe in that doesn't stop it being the fact. China had overtaken Japan as US biggest creditor couple of years ago. To add to your horror US third largest creditor is government of Russia that has overtaken South Korea also about 2 years ago. But that isn't really a bad thing... in this situation when these "enemies have SO MUCH invested in American economy they would really rock the boat, so to say, too much... little quarrels and disagreements here and there, but everybody want things to work smoothly. So in fact we see more and more economical binding of big players of the world.

And about going elsewhere… would you care to elaborate to exactly where would you go? Currently you realistic option is Chinese manufacturer  A or Chinese manufacture B or Chinese manufacturer C. Would you move your orders no one in the world can pick up the volumes. West simply doesn’t have a manufacturing capacity to serve its need. I agree that those “needs” are very excessive and often frivolous but I can’t see people en mass changing they life style, affluence of it is one of the cornerstone of our identity. That is what in the mind of most regular people makes their life different from life of people in 3^rd world – amount of stuff they can get. This can clearly be seen even at this forum.

As I said above there are alternatives. But how many of you are prepared to pay 500$ for a pair of jeans?

What would voters say to politicians who by withdrawing from China will effectively double or triple the cost of living? What would share holders of the companies making all the profits by manufacturing thins in China and selling them in the West with humongous markups say?